Sectarian abuse from the free staters

[Snapchap]

He's correct in that the GAA shouldn't have these on their grounds, the poppy thing to be honest, for me isn't a problem, I look at it as a charity that provides support. What it represents for others though is something different and is channeled incorrectly by the British media incorrectly, the purpose of the charity was at the time a just one, as the government basically left the wounded and families of ones lost in the war to their own devices to look after themselves.

Being used now, well its like any charity, a money making machine and they will exploit every opportunity to get more money in and are happy enough to have a national period (November) to generate as much as they can. The political statement has changed over the years and to be honest the government are still not doing enough for wounded soldiers or the families of soldiers lost in wars/drills/conflicts, so they are happy to support a group that will take the pressure off them.

The bully tactics tactics by the British media won't last, it will fade out and people will choose a lot more to not do it and won't be pulled on it.

I'm not getting into a poppy argument either 

Funny, Evil Genius and Michaelg have both been criticising the Clonoe commemoration too, but neither of them wanted to get into the poppy debate either, which I thought was a bit convenient.

The poppy mightn't be an issue for you, and is "just a charity" in your eyes. The problem in the north of Ireland is that the people who benefit from the funds of this charity include British soldiers who served here and you don't need me to remind you that this isn't England, and that the British Army's record in Ireland is one of murder, torture, harassment, intimidation and brutality. That being the case, the poppy is undeniably a divisive, contentious and politically charged symbol here. That fact doesn't change just because poppies don't bother you. So either both commemorations are political and shouldn't happen in sports grounds, or else all political commemorations in sports grounds are fair game. Selective condemnation is just meaningless.

[trueblue1234]

michaelg is correct, keep that stuff out of the GAA, there are lots of places for those that want to have commemorations. As for Windsor park and GSTQ and poppies, don't go if it offends you, same as unionists feeling offended by the GAA, don't bother.

Sport for sport, politics for politics they shouldn't (imo) mix

But he isn't correct then going by your last line. Sport for sport, politics for politics. As the poppy is a political statement. He is trying to claim the poppy is different and therefore not political. That's not the case as you know.

He's correct in that the GAA shouldn't have these on their grounds, the poppy thing to be honest, for me isn't a problem, I look at it as a charity that provides support. What it represents for others though is something different and is channeled incorrectly by the British media incorrectly, the purpose of the charity was at the time a just one, as the government basically left the wounded and families of ones lost in the war to their own devices to look after themselves.

Being used now, well its like any charity, a money making machine and they will exploit every opportunity to get more money in and are happy enough to have a national period (November) to generate as much as they can. The political statement has changed over the years and to be honest the government are still not doing enough for wounded soldiers or the families of soldiers lost in wars/drills/conflicts, so they are happy to support a group that will take the pressure off them.

The bully tactics tactics by the British media won't last, it will fade out and people will choose a lot more to not do it and won't be pulled on it.

I'm not getting into a poppy argument either 

I don't think either you, EG, or MichaelG could stand over a claim that the poppy is not political in NI. If you were making that claim, then I'd have to say you are being intentionally disingenuous or else extremely ignorant. Therefore he can't possible be correct in his assertions regarding political statements and sport. If he was claiming neither had any place in sport, then yes you could argue that he is correct. Or alternatively that both have their place and people should be tolerable to other peoples views then again you could make an argument that he's correct. As both these are opinions and consistent.

[Milltown Row2]

I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.

I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.

If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere

[Baile Brigín 2]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.

So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.

The FAI? You sure?

[trueblue1234]

I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.

I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.

If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere

I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently.  We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.

I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.

If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere

I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently.  We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.

I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?

[trueblue1234]

I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.

I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.

If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere

I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently.  We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.

I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?

I never defended the decision of Clonoe. I think it should have been a separate community memorial rather than through the GAA club.
I'm not surprised you disagree with my view on the poppy tbh....

[Baile Brigín 2]

I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.

I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.

If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere

I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently.  We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.

I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?

I never defended the decision of Clonoe. I think it should have been a separate community memorial rather than through the GAA club.
I'm not surprised you disagree with my view on the poppy tbh....

I also disagree as in agree with you.

[Snapchap]

I can't be bothered to read back but like I've said, I'm not interested in what other people think on it either, you keep politics out of sport.

I've said my peace on the charity and I've said where I think it's become political. Either you can't read what I said or don't want to. The brits have been here long before the poppy ever came about, I don't see it or union jacks flying about as an issue.

If we don't try and move on and comfy to polarise the communities then we'll get nowhere

I've read your posts. You don't believe the poppy is political in NI apparently.  We'll never going to meet on that base point so Not much point debating anything else as the rest stems from that. We'll leave it there.

I also disagree. But. If you object to poppies at other sports and defend the club's right to controversial, at least to some, Republican commemorations in the GAA, what are you?

You're the one defending the poppy promotion by the IFA but condemning the Clonoe memorial. How it that not hypocritical if you're saying that the vice versa is?

[Snapchap]

Bottom line is:

Either politically contentious symbols be banned by all sports or none.

Those who jump up and down when the GAA are seen to breach that ideal, never EVER have anything to say about poppies and GSTQ at Windsor Park, for instance. That tells me their problem isn't politics in sport. It's about furthering their own political bias using sport. Ironic.

[michaelg]

Bottom line is:

Either politically contentious symbols be banned by all sports or none.

Those who jump up and down when the GAA are seen to breach that ideal, never EVER have anything to say about poppies and GSTQ at Windsor Park, for instance. That tells me their problem isn't politics in sport. It's about furthering their own political bias using sport. Ironic.

So should the Soldiers Somg not be played at the Aviva for rugby games too?

[Rossfan]

What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.

[michaelg]

What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.

It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.

[Snapchap]

What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.

It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.

You know it's called Amhrán na bhFiann, Michael? Why the need to translate it?

[Rossfan]

What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.

It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.

As I understand the IRFU position they play the National Anthem because the game takes place in the 26 Counties, then play the Dirge as an anthem for the team .
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they don't play Amhrán na bhFiann at away games.
The IFA don't play any song to represent their team despite the dual Nationality involved.