Messages

[Conlon is just too hard to follow]

Tiny percentage of Irish people subscribe to DAZN

If he was on RTE tonight, he'd be as high profile as Bernard Dunne at his peak. Bernard didn't have the profile of peak Barry McGuigan but was pretty much a household name at that time.

But for the ordinary Irish sports follower, of which there are many many looking to jump on any bandwagon, Conlon is just too hard to follow. If he was even on Sky Sports, there'd be plenty looking out for him.

So the Kinahan connection, if there is one, is moot. Not enough people know about Conlon's professional career to care about any Kinahan influence.

Perhaps his pro IRA ballix has something to do with it.

I'm arguing that for right or wrong, social convention is to wear the poppy.  This monument is an outlier

What a load of absolute and utter bull. The poppy is not a social convention. It is exclusive to one community in a divided society. That makes it a contentious and divisive symbol which makes many nationalists uncomfortable. Either you are opposed to any politically uncomfortable symbols in sport, or you are not. Your attempts to pick and choose are so bloody transparently grounded in your own bias, it's laughable.

What are your views on the Soldiers Song being played at the Aviva for Ireland rugby matches?  As it does not represent all of the island of Ireland, surely that makes it contentious and divisive too?

It's the Irish national anthem.

Should GSTQ be played before (NI) games?

In my opinion, no. Like Wales and Scotland, NI should have own anthem. Don't see what is wrong with Danny Boy even, as it's used at Commonwealth Games (Even if that wee scrote Barnes doesn't like it lol). Good compromise would be 2 anthems like the rugby, but don't think that's allowed by UEFA/FIFA.

What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.

It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.

As I understand the IRFU position they play the National Anthem because the game takes place in the 26 Counties, then play the Dirge as an anthem for the team .
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they don't play Amhrán na bhFiann at away games.
The IFA don't play any song to represent their team despite the dual Nationality involved.

You are correct on both points.  Regarding the first point, afaik, they used to play GSTQ at internationals in Belfast before there was opposition from a number of players. The Dirge, as you call it, is grand and helps unify the fans at the ground as everyone sings along.
Don't think you are allowed to play 2 home anthems in football. Would be good if this was allowed.

I'm arguing that for right or wrong, social convention is to wear the poppy.  This monument is an outlier

What a load of absolute and utter bull. The poppy is not a social convention. It is exclusive to one community in a divided society. That makes it a contentious and divisive symbol which makes many nationalists uncomfortable. Either you are opposed to any politically uncomfortable symbols in sport, or you are not. Your attempts to pick and choose are so bloody transparently grounded in your own bias, it's laughable.

What are your views on the Soldiers Song being played at the Aviva for Ireland rugby matches?  As it does not represent all of the island of Ireland, surely that makes it contentious and divisive too?

What percentage of the population of the 26 Counties don't regard Amhrán na bhFiann as their Anthem?
Anyway the Ruggerites have a team anthem as well.

It's not the Republic of Ireland rugby team.

Bottom line is:

Either politically contentious symbols be banned by all sports or none.

Those who jump up and down when the GAA are seen to breach that ideal, never EVER have anything to say about poppies and GSTQ at Windsor Park, for instance. That tells me their problem isn't politics in sport. It's about furthering their own political bias using sport. Ironic.

So should the Soldiers Somg not be played at the Aviva for rugby games too?

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.

So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.

My point yesterday was in response to the assertion that politics and religion is totally unrelated to the GAA in 2022 and that there was no longer anything preventing people from the Unionist community getting involved with with GAA. Commemorations such as the one at Clonoe are going to do little to attract people from non-traditional GAA bacjgrounds.  Not really interested in getting into a whole other debate about poppies etc.

Whatever about your point yesterday, your point today was that "Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds". If you are making that statement, and are so clearly very keen to criticise the GAA for breaching that ideal, then it's a bit overly convenient to at the same time decide you are "not really interested" in talking about when the IFA breach the ideal.

The statement that are you referring to to was in direct response to a question you asked me. Have a nice evening.

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.

So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.

My point yesterday was in response to the assertion that politics and religion is totally unrelated to the GAA in 2022 and that there was no longer anything preventing people from the Unionist community getting involved with with GAA. Commemorations such as the one at Clonoe are going to do little to attract people from non-traditional GAA bacjgrounds.  Not really interested in getting into a whole other debate about poppies etc. 

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

[(how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).]

...
Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?

michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).

is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?

So that does make it alright then?  It's certainly not going to attract non-nationalists in the area anyway.  I was just highlighting the point that you can't witter on about hardline unionists painting an "inaccurate and insulting picture", when commemorations like this are taking place in 2022.

[Politics and religion do not come in to it. It literally has no relevance in the day to day running of a GAA club, but it suits a hardline unionist agenda to promote a narrative of the GAA which is inaccurate and insulting.]

Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.

The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community.  Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.

Do you follow your local gaa club Michael?

No I don't.  Grew up in a place where the nearest GAA club was a few miles away.  As I never played GAA at school, or was never invited to go along to said local GAA club, I had very little exposure to GAA.  Probally the main reason why I don't follow any local clubs.  Also, I play and am involved in a number of other sports clubs, so would not really have the time to develop much of an interest, to be honest.  Interesting that for the same reason, many people from working class protestant backgrounds, have little or no interest in rugby.

That's disappointing Michaelg, you really need to get out more😜.  I follow my nearest soccer, rugby and cricket clubs, even though I never played any of those sports. I have been welcomed in all 3 clubs , as their members are welcomed in ours. Politics and religion do not come in to it. It literally has no relevance in the day to day running of a GAA club,  but it suits a hardline unionist agenda to promote a narrative of the GAA which is inaccurate and insulting.

I would equate the GAA with its Irish ethos to organisations with a British ethos. There are nationalists/republicans who are members of Royal County Down, watch their sons in Windsor Park, or attend the Royal Victoria hospital😂, and don't blink an eye. I imagine Unionists who play or follow GAA are similar. It's genuinely is no big deal, and I would question the agenda of those who try to make it one.

Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?

It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.

You don't need to be a unionist to think it's a bizarre situation to reward the GAA's failure with more money and relaxed planning in order to get a soccer tournament played in a location that hasn't a stadium capable of hosting a soccer tournament.

You're entirely right about that first bit but it wouldn't be uncommon for Governments to subsidise the development of Stadia in an attempt to secure an international event, think Man Citys stadium for the commonwealth games and also West ham at the London Olympics stadium, everyone is a winner in that regard.

On a slightly different issue I only realised that the Ballymena showgrounds are owned and maintained by the local council(ratepayers) as was Inver park in Larne up until the last few years. I wonder what rent they'd be paying and is there any other clubs out there availing of such local council generosity?

Many local sports clubs hire council facilities. Never mind the rent they are paying, what are they getting for the money they are paying when the pitch, for example at Ballymena, does not appear to be terribly well maintained, and key games have to be postponed as a result.

Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.

The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community.  Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.

Do you follow your local gaa club Michael?

No I don't.  Grew up in a place where the nearest GAA club was a few miles away.  As I never played GAA at school, or was never invited to go along to said local GAA club, I had very little exposure to GAA.  Probally the main reason why I don't follow any local clubs.  Also, I play and am involved in a number of other sports clubs, so would not really have the time to develop much of an interest, to be honest.  Interesting that for the same reason, many people from working class protestant backgrounds, have little or no interest in rugby.

And if there was an actual Protestant or someone from a unionist background stripped out for Down yesterday, what's the course of action then? "Ah don't worry, it's only a bit of sledging"

In the absence of any Prods about the place, I think the Carlow lads are to be congratulated for their ingenuity and imagination.

Just a shame that the Down boys can't show the same qualities in actually getting a few more Prods into their own team.

Or even one.

(I'll leave that thought with you  )

Shall I correct you on that one?

Always enjoyable watching a smug tw@t making a fool of himself.

With his little emojis and everything. 

It's ironic that one of the lads in questions name is actually in the report in the first post  .

His Da is a proud East Belfast Glensman, born and raised, tattoos and all who helps out with our pitch maintenance.

And if some of you remember a while back I put up a post about some village idiot in Portavogie giving out about people wearing GAA tops in the village. Found out on Sunday whilst talking to a lad originally from Bangor (also not Catholic) whos daughters play camogie for us that it was another wee girl and her sister who's dad is originally from SA (not Catholic either) but living in Portavogie that the idiot was giving off about. They were wearing our tops..

Always happy to break down barriers.

Genuine question - Where was the young fella educated? If he went to a GAA playing catholic school, arguably his involvement in the sport has more to do with that, rather than any GAA outreach.  If that's the case, his Da having a few Glentoran tattoos is kinda irrelevant.

That particular fella went to the Red High in Downpatrick, then onto Jordanstown so I get where you're coming from, but he's as much a protestant as a catholic in "cultural" terms and the reason I mentioned the Da is that he's proud of his roots and absolutely no one in the club gives a flying fúck that's he's a prod from East Belfast.
There's possibly another lad on the panel who went to Regent House the former alma mater of the legendary Blair Mayne and hurling hotbed, he's U20, so might be training with the seniors but not making the panel, is on an Ulster Rugby development squad, the Dad is protestant, him mum is my cousin who like me has a Granny from Republican Portavogie, the most disgusting thing about it is that he plays for Ballycran  .

We've a lad also in our club going to Regent currently, was invited to the Down U17 hurling trials, he just hadn't the time to go between football and schools rugby but he'll play with the club, protestant background, came at 10 years of age as he was mates with lads who did play, loved it, his mum and dad went with us to Cork for a National Feile and she thanked me for how welcome we'd made her and her family as she was a protestant from Cloughey and was a bit fearful at the start when her son told her he wanted to go hurling with his mates.

No one gives a shit, they genuinely don't and like all things good about the GAA, outreach will happen at the local community level where the GAA is at its strongest, it's so Cliché but it's so true.

Very interesting to read.  Kids should get the opportunity to play as many sports as possible, providing of course, they are in a neutral environment where politics and religion are left at the gate - No better way to break down barriers and forge lasting friendships than through playing sport or being involved in a sports club.

Sports, other than the GAA, suffer little from people who are too prejudiced to take part in anything Irish because they are anti-Irish.

The other argument is that Unionists have not taken part is because the GAA was a colduouse for for people from the PUL community.  Reports of sectariam abuse because of someone's perceived background, is not going to help change that.