Catalan Independence Movement

[Wildweasel74]

Only one problem with the north u likely get a 65% no vote for a split from the uk

[armaghniac]

The Catalan government can shit or get off the pot now. Spain won't give them independence and if they declare it the E.U. won't recognise them. There is a big Anti tourist movement in Barcelona so maybe it's time they can have their own state and see how that works out. The E.U.  can't recognise them without opening the door for Scotland or the North

The EU has no particular problem with Scotland, other than encouraging Catalonia. As for the North a United Ireland will automatically be in the EU, there will not be  an independent NI.

[NetNitrate]

Shades of Derry October 1968 and Easter 1916.
Do very right wingers ever read history?
I now hear on the News of Police chiefs being charged with "Sedition"!!!
Shades of Ireland 1917-21.

Depends from what side of history you view this from. Technically, the Catalan move for independence from Spain is closer to the 6 counties separation from the rest of Ireland.

On the otherhand, some view countries as natural, if not sacrosanct, boundaries - ie the island of Ireland is a country, and the creation of Northern Ireland was an artificial construct. That would be the Fhior Gael view.

However, all borders and countries are arbitrary including the borders of counties. America, the most famous in history, was created by a declaration of independence obviously backed by a successful war of independence. That said, they did invoke the "laws of nature and nature's God". However, that was bullshit. All borders are arbitrary creations, typically created by the majority within those borders, sometimes with the threat of force.

[bennydorano]

350,000 March in an anti independence rally.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/world/europe/catalonia-independence-protest.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=https://t.co/0ErRoccLIx

Read in a separate article that a lot of far right types were bussed in for the event.

[CiKe]

The organisers themselves say it was a million. Haven't a clue what the figure would be but streets were choc a bloc from the photos.

Benny where did you read about the right-wingers bussed in? Genuinely curious, not seen anything on the news over here, but there seems to be a perception that independence movement is result of right-wing oppression. Most of Spain and majority of Cataluna are against independence, and that goes across the political spectrum

[bennydorano]

Twitter, (Ruptly) there's a fair bit on twitter in relation to it.

[Capt Pat]

The organisers themselves say it was a million. Haven't a clue what the figure would be but streets were choc a bloc from the photos.

Its a pity a milion Catalans didn't get out and vote that way if that is what they wanted.

The people have spoken in the referendum their democratic will should be respected.

[gallsman]

The organisers themselves say it was a million. Haven't a clue what the figure would be but streets were choc a bloc from the photos.

Its a pity a milion Catalans didn't get out and vote that way if that is what they wanted.

The people have spoken in the referendum their democratic will should be respected.

Why? Why would they go and vote in an illegal referendum? Why would the vote of a minority of the population in an illegal referendum be respected?

Complete bollocks.

[armaghniac]

The votes of a minority in an illegal referendum should be respected to the extent of having a proper referendum.

[Capt Pat]

Illegal referendum or democracy at work? You would vote in it if you wanted your voice to be heard and your opinion taken into account.

Of course the Spanish government is going to say it is an illegal referendum and maybe has legislation that says so. It is the only way this mess is going to be sorted out I hope. An election or referendum is better than going to war over it.

[gallsman]

There was nothing democratic about it. Are you familiar with the background to it at all or just jumping on the bandwagon?

They broke their own parliamentary rules to railroad the legislation paving the way for the "referendum" in the first place. Their own polls showed 41% appetite for independence and they pushed ahead with

[Avondhu star]

The Catalan leadership are backing off from a U.D.I.   now that their bluff has been called. The big financial groups want stability and are pulling out. Hundreds of thousands of Catalan have gone on the street demanding to stay with Spain. The Pro independence crowd will be happy with that as they now have an excuse to pull back and let the chip on their shoulder get bigger. Similar to the six counties which had the lowest level of military activity during the War of Independence and allowed the south to bear the brunt of the Black and Tans. Then spent the next 50 years whinging

[bennydorano]

I think it has to end with a promise of a constitutional Referendum, maybe in 2020 to give the dust time to settle.

[magpie seanie]

Was chatting to a friend of mine from Madrid who was visiting us in Sligo at the weekend. He reckons the Spanish government are woefully inept and corrupt and are the main driver of the growth in support for Catalan Independence. He makes the point that this government oppresses all of Spain, not just Catalonia, with their ineptitude. He firmly believes if and when they're replaced, Catalan independence sentiment will melt away.

Apparently according to him also, there are lots of fake photos and videos doing the rounds. He maintains the violence did happen but has been greatly exaggerated. I'm surprised to hear that - has anyone else heard similar?

[naka]

 

The Catalan leadership are backing off from a U.D.I.   now that their bluff has been called. The big financial groups want stability and are pulling out. Hundreds of thousands of Catalan have gone on the street demanding to stay with Spain. The Pro independence crowd will be happy with that as they now have an excuse to pull back and let the chip on their shoulder get bigger. Similar to the six counties which had the lowest level of military activity during the War of Independence and allowed the south to bear the brunt of the Black and Tans. Then spent the next 50 years whinging