Kerry v Throne AIQF - Saturday July 1st

[imtommygunn]

That Donegal team were very good. For all the McGuinness plaudits he didn't know what to do when Fitzmaurice completely mirrored his gameplan but they did alright the rest of the year.

[kickingmule]

Jayas the bitterness is hanging out of of that boy yellowcard, Donegal and Tyrone have done their counties proud and won their all Ireland Titles in style. Maybe its time for the weaker counties of ulster to stop the thrash talk and get their act together.

[Redhand Santa]

Jayas the bitterness is hanging out of of that boy yellowcard, Donegal and Tyrone have done their counties proud and won their all Ireland Titles in style. Maybe its time for the weaker counties of ulster to stop the thrash talk and get their act together.

He's on another thread saying Armagh only got relegated because Mayo put out a weak team v Monaghan. And Armagh only lost to Tyrone because they missed chances. He doesn't seem to get how sport actually works.

[yellowcard]

Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.

Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.

It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.

Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.

Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.

What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.

Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.

Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.   

Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.

So now you've moved the debate onto the overall merit of that 2021 Tyrone team and not whether the actual result itself against Kerry was a bolt from the blue or a smash and grab. That's a different argument. Tyrone were a semi final team hovering around that sort of level for a good few years under Mickey Harte but never really looked like winning an AI title. Which is no slight given the strength of Dublin during this era but it was just a matter of fact. I thought their chance had gone after they were beaten in the final in 2018. In 2019 they stayed with a very young Kerry side for a good part of the game but were eventually over ran and deservedly beaten in the end. They wouldn't have beaten Dublin in that final in any case imo. After Harte was ousted I don't think anyone bar the most optimistic of Tyrone supporters, thought they could win an AI title certainly in the short term. To that extent it was a big surprise but the Kerry match itself given how strong they had looked that year was to my mind at least, a bit of a bolt from the blue. But none of that really matters anyway as the history books will show that Tyrone won the AI title in 2021 and you really shouldn't care how it happened or how they measure up against other winners.     

[HokeyPokey]

Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.

Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.

It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.

Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.

Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.

What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.

Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.

Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.   

Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.

So now you've moved the debate onto the overall merit of that 2021 Tyrone team and not whether the actual result itself against Kerry was a bolt from the blue or a smash and grab. That's a different argument. Tyrone were a semi final team hovering around that sort of level for a good few years under Mickey Harte but never really looked like winning an AI title. Which is no slight given the strength of Dublin during this era but it was just a matter of fact. I thought their chance had gone after they were beaten in the final in 2018. In 2019 they stayed with a very young Kerry side for a good part of the game but were eventually over ran and deservedly beaten in the end. They wouldn't have beaten Dublin in that final in any case imo. After Harte was ousted I don't think anyone bar the most optimistic of Tyrone supporters, thought they could win an AI title certainly in the short term. To that extent it was a big surprise but the Kerry match itself given how strong they had looked that year was to my mind at least, a bit of a bolt from the blue. But none of that really matters anyway as the history books will show that Tyrone won the AI title in 2021 and you really shouldn't care how it happened or how they measure up against other winners.   

I think this is a bit revisionist too. Tyrone and Kerry were on similar levels in 2019. Tyrone were too defensive in 2017, but in 2019, McShane was right up there with the best forwards so there was more direct attacking threat. Tyrone were leading by 4 and dominating Kerry at the break and were in the lead up until the 55th minute, so it wasn't exactly 'staying' with them. Although the margins were similar, I think Tyrone were staying with Kerry in the 2015 game, but in 2019 they mismanaged a game they should have won and Kerry punished some bad mistakes.

By 2021, Tyrone had added Conor McKenna, Canavan, Kilpatrick and a few others, had a decent midfield and had started playing to McCurry's strengths. While it caught people off guard. It wasn't exactly a bolt from the blue to see a team that had been consistently competing for honours to beat another team which had been consistently competing for honours and who had recently contested a close championship game which either team could have won.

[WhoDat]

a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.

[tyrone08]

a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.

I said the same thing on Sat after the Donegal game. Would have taken anyone in quarter final bar Kerry. Be interesting to see how it plays out.

[WT4E]

With the new format this year I think it's been a very strange season so far with no team showing real good form.
Only Derry and Dublin remain unbeaten but with the Dubs having only drawn with the only Div 1 team they've met.

So many teams seem capable of beating each other as we've seen in the group stages and there has been an element of trying to get to the quarter finals with as little effort as possible or not showing too much of your hand.
A lot of talk about peaking at the right time, not coming in undercooked and can a team turn it on when needed.
Kerry have been getting to quarters and semis for years trying to peak for August football and Tyrone would appear to be trying to do the same this year with some very poor performances here and there.

I suppose Kerry will not be as naive as they were in 2021 where they seemed to be unprepared (again) for what Tyrone would throw at them. Until that game Kerry were scoring goals for fun whereas Tyrone couldn't buy a goal. That all changed that day.

We may have lost McKenna but we've gained two Canavans and Mattie seems to be back to his old self. So our forward line seems a lot more potent although our bench is weak in my eyes which was a huge factor in closing out games in 21.

Clifford is so far ahead of everyone else and if Kerry can find him with good ball he will win marks and score for fun.
I suppose it all comes down to how both teams play on the day but to me Tyrone aren't as bad as many "neutrals" think and maybe Kerry aren't as good as ye think either or at least haven't been so far.

If McKenna had stayed and operated at 11 - Tyrones forward unit would be a scary prospect.

Meyler McKenna Ruairi
Darragh Mattie Dazzler

'DROOLING'

[kickingmule]

There's little point in arguing with a bigot
Who will never see the merits of your teams progress, it has taken years for sides like Tyrone setting up proper structures,coaching and looking after talent from the minute they're able to walk. So to be honest it comes down to  shit talk, and total bitterness for fans to be jealous of your teams  progress down through  the years. ...eg: Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo ,Dublin , Down and caven/Donegal etc.

[rrhf]

a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.

I think that's a fair point, but with a lighter panel the prospect of extra time or close end to end games could be our downfall and to progress much further it is all required. We don't have the same team energy levels as 2021. We have the will but I just can't see the way. I think we will hang in for about 45 mins and expect Kerry to finish the stronger, but I am just happy that some of these great servants to Tyrone football get to play at Croke Park again, particularly after last year. They deserve their swan song in Croke park.   

[screenexile]

a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.

I think that's a fair point, but with a lighter panel the prospect of extra time or close end to end games could be our downfall and to progress much further it is all required. We don't have the same team energy levels as 2021. We have the will but I just can't see the way. I think we will hang in for about 45 mins and expect Kerry to finish the stronger, but I am just happy that some of these great servants to Tyrone football get to play at Croke Park again, particularly after last year. They deserve their swan song in Croke park.

Has "Covid" struck down the team AGAIN??!!

[restorepride]

a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.

I think that's a fair point, but with a lighter panel the prospect of extra time or close end to end games could be our downfall and to progress much further it is all required. We don't have the same team energy levels as 2021. We have the will but I just can't see the way. I think we will hang in for about 45 mins and expect Kerry to finish the stronger, but I am just happy that some of these great servants to Tyrone football get to play at Croke Park again, particularly after last year. They deserve their swan song in Croke park.

Has "Covid" struck down the team AGAIN??!!

Good wan!! Don't tell Spillane!

[omagh_gael]

If Breffni Park had Hawkeye, J Heslin's score could well have been given.

I was right behind it and it definitely was wide, Heslin himself was interviewed after the game and said it was wide too.

[restorepride]

If Breffni Park had Hawkeye, J Heslin's score could well have been given.

I was right behind it and it definitely was wide, Heslin himself was interviewed after the game and said it was wide too.

But if Hawkeye allowed it, it wouldn't matter what you saw! Conor Glsss and all that on a dodgy day in Croke Park.

[JimStynes]

With the new format this year I think it's been a very strange season so far with no team showing real good form.
Only Derry and Dublin remain unbeaten but with the Dubs having only drawn with the only Div 1 team they've met.

So many teams seem capable of beating each other as we've seen in the group stages and there has been an element of trying to get to the quarter finals with as little effort as possible or not showing too much of your hand.
A lot of talk about peaking at the right time, not coming in undercooked and can a team turn it on when needed.
Kerry have been getting to quarters and semis for years trying to peak for August football and Tyrone would appear to be trying to do the same this year with some very poor performances here and there.

I suppose Kerry will not be as naive as they were in 2021 where they seemed to be unprepared (again) for what Tyrone would throw at them. Until that game Kerry were scoring goals for fun whereas Tyrone couldn't buy a goal. That all changed that day.

We may have lost McKenna but we've gained two Canavans and Mattie seems to be back to his old self. So our forward line seems a lot more potent although our bench is weak in my eyes which was a huge factor in closing out games in 21.

Clifford is so far ahead of everyone else and if Kerry can find him with good ball he will win marks and score for fun.
I suppose it all comes down to how both teams play on the day but to me Tyrone aren't as bad as many "neutrals" think and maybe Kerry aren't as good as ye think either or at least haven't been so far.

If McKenna had stayed and operated at 11 - Tyrones forward unit would be a scary prospect.

Meyler McKenna Ruairi
Darragh Mattie Dazzler

'DROOLING'

McKenna didn't seem half interested when he was finally settled back home and realised playing for Tyrone wasn't just as nice as the professional lifestyle in the sunny climates. He wasn't a guaranteed starter in the end.