A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[yellowcard]

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/06/27/despite-the-duptory-deal-today-united-ireland-is-on-the-cards-we-must-have-a-plan

[Avondhu star]

I think a NI with a nationalist majority would be more likely to be decent simply because nationalists are the locals and don't have the persecution complex that goes with being the settlers.Anywhere that was colonised by outsiders the outsiders have problems.

I dont see any great trend among Shiiners to extend the hand of friendship. Their attitude to the opening of Croke Park to rugby etc, the admission of PSNI to the GAA and their triumphalism following the Assembly elections show they are no better than the other side.

That's right 

Ever wondered why Nationalist led councils in the North are more inclined to have sharing agreements in place with the Mayoral type roles and why Unionist led ones don't?

Yip, its those baddies in Sinn Fein.

Avondhu star, educate yourself and form your opinions on the North somewhere other than the Irish Independent and RTÉ.

I was thinking that so well said.

Who voted against Croke pk being opened to rugby?
Who voted against admitting PSNI
Who was jumping up and down against the dup and now have got their hole opened by Arlene and are doing their best to crawl back into Stormont with Arlene still boss?

Shinners had no vote on Croke Park being opened and IIRC Cork CB also voted against it. Never knew Frank Murphy was a Shinner.
See first part of above. The timeline for the allowing of security force personnel to join the GAA was before the implementation of the Patten report and IIRC was Seany Kelly being the lick ado politician that he finally became.
Alliance, the UUP and the SDLP were the first to jump up and down about Arlene when the RHI scandal broke. In fact the Shinners were being criticised for not jumping soon enough and when Martin did he and the Shinners were singled out, but not Naomi Long, Mike TV or Eastwood, why was that?
Will they go back into Stormont with Arlene at the helm? Who knows, but you'll be ready with your ill informed views either way that (a) if the do go back, they've been outmaneuvered by Arlene, blah blah blah or (b) they don't go back so they're then solely responsible for direct rule from Westminster blah blah blah.

Shinners have their faults but you just regurgitate the same nonsense time and time again with little fact to support.

Now you feel better. Just a little lie down in a dark room for an hour until Nurse comes around

[vallankumous]

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/06/27/despite-the-duptory-deal-today-united-ireland-is-on-the-cards-we-must-have-a-plan

Everyone suddenly wants their piece of the UI debate. Once something can't be denied you see these leeches jumping on the back of it. While this debate has been going on for decades and has always had an inevitable conclusion, history books will point to brexit and leeches like McWilliams as some sort of starting point. Welcome on board at last David.

[armaghniac]

We need the likes of McWilliams to debate the economics of progress as the usual suspects will never achieve anything.

[vallankumous]

We need the likes of McWilliams to debate the economics of progress as the usual suspects will never achieve anything.

Yes, and I welcome it.

I even welcome those opposed discussing it. there is no chance of Ireland becoming more divided so it can only stay the same or become more united. Debate of all kinds will help this.

[yellowcard]

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/06/27/despite-the-duptory-deal-today-united-ireland-is-on-the-cards-we-must-have-a-plan

Everyone suddenly wants their piece of the UI debate. Once something can't be denied you see these leeches jumping on the back of it. While this debate has been going on for decades and has always had an inevitable conclusion, history books will point to brexit and leeches like McWilliams as some sort of starting point. Welcome on board at last David.

Well I for one welcome these 'leeches' as you describe them jumping on the back of it. However I would like you to point out all these people you state who want their piece of the debate because I don't see too many who have presented an economic vision of how it will look. It has only been with the imposition of Brexit that the debate has been stirred and that also applies to the 2 main nationalist parties in the north. There was barely a credible vision in place before then.   

[johnneycool]

I think a NI with a nationalist majority would be more likely to be decent simply because nationalists are the locals and don't have the persecution complex that goes with being the settlers.Anywhere that was colonised by outsiders the outsiders have problems.

I dont see any great trend among Shiiners to extend the hand of friendship. Their attitude to the opening of Croke Park to rugby etc, the admission of PSNI to the GAA and their triumphalism following the Assembly elections show they are no better than the other side.

That's right 

Ever wondered why Nationalist led councils in the North are more inclined to have sharing agreements in place with the Mayoral type roles and why Unionist led ones don't?

Yip, its those baddies in Sinn Fein.

Avondhu star, educate yourself and form your opinions on the North somewhere other than the Irish Independent and RTÉ.

I was thinking that so well said.

Who voted against Croke pk being opened to rugby?
Who voted against admitting PSNI
Who was jumping up and down against the dup and now have got their hole opened by Arlene and are doing their best to crawl back into Stormont with Arlene still boss?

Shinners had no vote on Croke Park being opened and IIRC Cork CB also voted against it. Never knew Frank Murphy was a Shinner.
See first part of above. The timeline for the allowing of security force personnel to join the GAA was before the implementation of the Patten report and IIRC was Seany Kelly being the lick ado politician that he finally became.
Alliance, the UUP and the SDLP were the first to jump up and down about Arlene when the RHI scandal broke. In fact the Shinners were being criticised for not jumping soon enough and when Martin did he and the Shinners were singled out, but not Naomi Long, Mike TV or Eastwood, why was that?
Will they go back into Stormont with Arlene at the helm? Who knows, but you'll be ready with your ill informed views either way that (a) if the do go back, they've been outmaneuvered by Arlene, blah blah blah or (b) they don't go back so they're then solely responsible for direct rule from Westminster blah blah blah.

Shinners have their faults but you just regurgitate the same nonsense time and time again with little fact to support.

Now you feel better. Just a little lie down in a dark room for an hour until Nurse comes around

Not a bother, give me a shout if you ever need any more information

[vallankumous]

Well I for one welcome these 'leeches' as you describe them jumping on the back of it. However I would like you to point out all these people you state who want their piece of the debate because I don't see too many who have presented an economic vision of how it will look. It has only been with the imposition of Brexit that the debate has been stirred and that also applies to the 2 main nationalist parties in the north. There was barely a credible vision in place before then.   

This is my point. You only see it as a real debate now, post brexit. I've never seen it other than a real debate. McWilliams, Varadkar, The Irish Times, The Irish independent, The Journal.ie, RTE have all been discussing the possibilty since brexit.. And like you I welcome everyone to debate it.

A quick google will find you many pieces on the economics of a United ireland. Most are agenda packed and I'd say unreliable but they are every bit as reliable as the current economic projections facing any western Country or Union of Countries.
They have been ignored for decades by many as the debate has never really been had on a national scale. There is no real economic projection as there are to many coming from different angles. Some left, some right, some pro EU some Anti EU, some nationalist, some unionist etc. Economic projection aren't worth the paper they are written on much like any political manifesto and calls for them are only diversions. Planning, streamlining and integrating are the important factors as that is were the cost is. Other than that it's not as if the two states are that different. For every one difference there are a 1000 things in common.

We all have different views of how this might work but we'll get there.

[Applesisapples]

The economics of a United ireland are important, but really will not be the deciding factor. Even allowing for the demographics and a section of unionists being soft on the Union, the question is what do we do with the guys who believe that sticking flags on lamposts and marching down catholic streets is culture? They will never accept a UI.

[Rossfan]

Are they going to start a war?
Are they going to all emigrate to ?,

[armaghniac]

The economics of a United ireland are important, but really will not be the deciding factor. Even allowing for the demographics and a section of unionists being soft on the Union, the question is what do we do with the guys who believe that sticking flags on lamposts and marching down catholic streets is culture? They will never accept a UI.

Economics are needed to get the sensible people on board.
What is the alternative, that a nationalist majority accept being a colony for all time because of a few head cases?

[Owen Brannigan]

The economics of a United ireland are important, but really will not be the deciding factor. Even allowing for the demographics and a section of unionists being soft on the Union, the question is what do we do with the guys who believe that sticking flags on lamposts and marching down catholic streets is culture? They will never accept a UI.

Economics are needed to get the sensible people on board.
What is the alternative, that a nationalist majority accept being a colony for all time because of a few head cases?

What about the non-nationalists who believe they are nationalist in aspiration or culturally but do not want the upheaval and seismic change to their existence that a UI would mean?  They make up a sizeable number.  They are happy enough to be in 'a colony for all time'.

[armaghniac]

The economics of a United ireland are important, but really will not be the deciding factor. Even allowing for the demographics and a section of unionists being soft on the Union, the question is what do we do with the guys who believe that sticking flags on lamposts and marching down catholic streets is culture? They will never accept a UI.

Economics are needed to get the sensible people on board.
What is the alternative, that a nationalist majority accept being a colony for all time because of a few head cases?

What about the non-nationalists who believe they are nationalist in aspiration or culturally but do not want the upheaval and seismic change to their existence that a UI would mean?  They make up a sizeable number.  They are happy enough to be in 'a colony for all time'.

These people should be encouraged to have some minimum amount of self respect, if not for themselves then for their children.

[heganboy]

And who are these people? The upheaval and seismic change of Brexit doesn't count for them?

[JPGJOHNNYG]

The economics of a United ireland are important, but really will not be the deciding factor. Even allowing for the demographics and a section of unionists being soft on the Union, the question is what do we do with the guys who believe that sticking flags on lamposts and marching down catholic streets is culture? They will never accept a UI.

Economics are needed to get the sensible people on board.
What is the alternative, that a nationalist majority accept being a colony for all time because of a few head cases?

What about the non-nationalists who believe they are nationalist in aspiration or culturally but do not want the upheaval and seismic change to their existence that a UI would mean?  They make up a sizeable number.  They are happy enough to be in 'a colony for all time'.

Seismic change?? In reality not a lot will change or certainly no more than Brexit but we all seem to be happy enough ploughing ahead with that cluster f**k