Super 8s

[Fuzzman]

23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever!

How do you come to that conclusion Trap? My understanding is that it would be the same format up to the quarterfinal stage and so the last 3 years showed a good spread of new teams making it through to the last 8 and surely this would continue.

Last year Tipperary and Clare were the surprise packages who joined Donegal and Mayo from the qualifiers route
In 2015 Fermanagh and Kildare were the two surprises joining Donegal and Tyrone
In 2014 the 4 qualifiers were Cork, Galway, Armagh and Monaghan

I think the proposal is trying to do a few things and depending on where you are from and what you want either for your county to try to win Sam, try to get more club games during the summer etc etc we will ALL be able to pick wholes in it and find fault with it.
I think one of the things they are TRYING to do is put more date structure on the matches so they will be able to say exactly what dates the matches will be on and so clubs can work around those dates better with their fixture list.

I think moving the AI final 2 weeks further forward was like a token gesture to the clubs to keep them sweet and not push for more radical changes to the structure of the intercounty season.

People here the phrase Elite 8 and they automatically jump to the conclusion it's the 8 richest or biggest counties breaking away but that's not true. Donegal showed a few years ago that it is possible to come from nowhere and get your house in order and become one of the big boys. Yes it requires hard work, fund raising and sacrifice but they went from being the whipping boys in Ulster to being the last team to beat the Dubs and are now a real force in Ulster.

Personally I can't decide whether the proposal is good or not. I suppose I would like to see more games between the big teams rather than seeing Kerry or the Dubs getting to AI semifinals having mainly played teams from Div2 or below. I think it's crazy that they have a seeded draw in Munster where last years finalists get a bye to the semifinals whereas in Ulster Tyrone, Monaghan or Donegal could still be knocked out in a preliminary round in May.

[magpie seanie]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

[manfromdelmonte]

I'm completely against this idea without reform of the leagues and provincial championships.
The round robin section should be first!

[Dubhaltach]

What the graph illustrates is that there are already superpowers in GAA. The only county in Leinster that may make the super 8 is Dublin. How are the rest of the counties ever going to compete with Dublin? It is like asking Wycombe Wanderers to go toe to toe with Chelsea..........instead of proposals like this the GAA should be coming up with ideas to make the weaker counties (counties like Meath Down Cork Galway Armagh Cavan Roscommon and others) who have been traditionally competitive in a position where they can catch up with the top 4. That is the only way they are going to have a great championship in the future. And to think that Cavan and Roscommon are in Division One but are still so far off All Ireland contention just makes this argument stronger!
How do you do it?
Level up the financial resources each county team can spend.
Increase the number of GAA paid coaches in weaker counties
Improve training facilities in weaker counties
Limit the amount of training county teams do.
Have a fixture schedule that helps the club game in every county so that players in weaker counties dont choose club over county as they wont lose out playing with their club

The more counties who can be competitive the better the provincial and All Ireland series will be and the money will roll in from all around the country. If it is limited to 8 counties each year then the financial spread will be much less!

I would agree with you on most of those points. But it's championship format proposals that are being voted on here. As I've said previously, no championship format is going to give the weaker counties a chance of beating Dublin. Most GAA people would like to see an evening of the playing field, but IMO, that can only be addressed through motions that deal with finance. One example would be the idea that all sponsorship money is put into one pot and then divided equally to each county.

The graph also shows us that of the 5 counties that have made the last 8 once, 4 of them have made it there in the last 6 years. The fifth county, Wexford, made it there in 2008. Hardly an argument supporting the idea that 8 elite counties will play each other year in, year out.

[AZOffaly]

I don't think it's going to be any harder for a 'weaker' county to make the ''Super 8", but it's sure as hell going to be hard for them to get to a semi final. Tipp last year is probably the last time anyone outside of Division 1 makes an All Ireland semi final for a long time.

A lot of people would be quite happy with that. It's subjective. And I suppose there is the argument that the 4 best teams, rather than a team that got hot and got a bit of luck in a draw, should be in a semi final.

Imagine if Lincoln had to play Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea in a round robin at this stage, rather than just hope for a lucky day against Arsenal. Good night Luke. No place for dreams anymore

[Rossfan]

If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

[AZOffaly]

If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Is that a factor in doing this? Increased gates to get more money? I thought it was an attempt to have more high profile games between top teams, and less dross like Tipperary and Clare..

[J70]

Philip Jordan talking a lot of sense on the proposals for a Tyrone man!

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0222/854561-philip-jordan-gaa-change-needs-to-go-further/

Excellent piece.

Although its not exactly rocket science to come up with some kind of system which addresses the club issue. Which further illustrates the extent of the disconnect.

[Farrandeelin]

If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Is that a factor in doing this? Increased gates to get more money? I thought it was an attempt to have more high profile games between top teams, and less dross like Tipperary and Clare..

I'd say it's the main factor to be honest.

[Zulu]

Reading this thread and it's a mirror image of many discussions we've had here about changes where most lads seem to go to the default setting of seeing everything that's not perfect about it and little of what's good about it.

Most people agree the current format is not working and that radical changes would not pass congress so why not give this a chance and see what happens? AZ is correct when he says a Tipp or Westmeath getting to an All Ireland semi final is less likely but you could also have Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone coming to Thurles in the last game where a draw for Tipp could get them to a semi final (or some other scenario). EVERY single suggestion you could come up with will have faults if we maintain the county structure as we have and then want a format that serves Waterford and Dublin equally well. It's  impossible so why not see if something else is an improvement?

By the way won't the extra revenue go towards levelling the financial playing field?

[AZOffaly]

Reading this thread and it's a mirror image of many discussions we've had here about changes where most lads seem to go to the default setting of seeing everything that's not perfect about it and little of what's good about it.

Most people agree the current format is not working and that radical changes would not pass congress so why not give this a chance and see what happens? AZ is correct when he says a Tipp or Westmeath getting to an All Ireland semi final is less likely but you could also have Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone coming to Thurles in the last game where a draw for Tipp could get them to a semi final (or some other scenario). EVERY single suggestion you could come up with will have faults if we maintain the county structure as we have and then want a format that serves Waterford and Dublin equally well. It's  impossible so why not see if something else is an improvement?

By the way won't the extra revenue go towards levelling the financial playing field?

Anything that stops Westmeath getting to an All IReland semi final is fine by me.

Where did you hear that about the extra revenue? are the funds for these games earmarked to go into development outside of the big counties?

[GalwayBayBoy]

If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Is that a factor in doing this? Increased gates to get more money? I thought it was an attempt to have more high profile games between top teams, and less dross like Tipperary and Clare..

As the saying goes, when they say it's not about the money, it's about the money.

[shark]

If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Donegal rather than Westmeath. Westmeath lost to Mayo in last qualifier round.

[OgraAnDun]

23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever! There may be an odd shock in who gets into the last 8 but think about it like this......the counties who make the last 8 in the first year will have a considerable advantage over those that don't in terms of finance, exposure and experience gained, ease of player buy in the following year............therefore widening the gap. The GAA should be careful about what they wish for............and that is coming from a Tyrone man who are expected to be one of the top 8...........

Graph of the above
CHART

Kerry hoors...16 times in 15 years   !!!

16 years, 2001 - 2016. That's some going in fairness, 100% record, handy province or not.

ared to believe Downs record is so bad considering they have won an allireland in that time. also shows current form is not a fluke

Need to go back another few years for that unfortunately. Last one was in 1994.

[Hound]

I'm very much against round robin in the GAA championship as it'll inevitably lead to dead rubbers. Will anyone go to games where both teams are already through or both are already out? Or when you have one team with nothing to play for and thus put out a changed team which makes it easy for their opponents to grab the win they need?

But as a 3 year experiment, I'd be prepared to give it a go. I think it is better at the QF stage than at an earlier stage when you'd have too many one sided games.

There will be huge excitement, and it will be an achievement in itself to make the Super 8. It won't negatively impact anyone who doesnt make it anymore than the current system. Personally I don't think it would widen the gap between the top 8 and the rest. More likely to incentivise others to make it. For many counties, once they are out of the provinical, heads go down, players head off, because there's nothing realistic to aim for if they haven't made their provincial final. Now almost every county will think, that with a bit of luck and a kind draw, we could just sneak into the Super8 (the 8-12 that think they have no chance, should be in the B championship - but they don't want that).

So I hope they give it the 3 year trial.