The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Eamonnca1]

First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

Amnesty? Isn't that going to just encourage more migrants like yourself to flood into the US?

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

There are many reasons why people migrate from countries like Mexico to the USA. The generosity of the benefits systems is not one of them. The absence of universal healthcare is a price people deem worth paying for the advantages of living in the US. And as I stated previously, the idea that you should make the place less comfortable for everyone in order to deter migrants is just bonkers. That's like putting landmines in your own home to deter burglars.

Undocumented people are allowed to call the cops to report crime.
Undocumented people are allowed to call the fire department to report a fire.
Why should undocumented people be prevented from accessing the health care they need to stay alive?

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

Ugh. The UK was not in the Schengen zone. It retained control over its borders, and has its own free travel area with Ireland. That's right, Ireland has an open border running through the middle of it. Do you want to defect to the DUP and call for the building of a wall from Newry to Derry?

[Eamonnca1]

the Bernie bro is in bad form today did ur copy of the daily worker not get dropped off this morning

My pumpkin-spiced latte came with the wrong type of kale garnish. ~sarc

[whitey]

First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

Amnesty? Isn't that going to just encourage more migrants like yourself to flood into the US?

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

There are many reasons why people migrate from countries like Mexico to the USA. The generosity of the benefits systems is not one of them. The absence of universal healthcare is a price people deem worth paying for the advantages of living in the US. And as I stated previously, the idea that you should make the place less comfortable for everyone in order to deter migrants is just bonkers. That's like putting landmines in your own home to deter burglars.

Undocumented people are allowed to call the cops to report crime.
Undocumented people are allowed to call the fire department to report a fire.
Why should undocumented people be prevented from accessing the health care they need to stay alive?

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

Ugh. The UK was not in the Schengen zone. It retained control over its borders, and has its own free travel area with Ireland. That's right, Ireland has an open border running through the middle of it. Do you want to defect to the DUP and call for the building of a wall from Newry to Derry?

Amnesty-yes-and put the Southern border in lockdown mode until the 12M undocumented have been absorbed and given legal status. Anyone who is here must be here legally, participate and contribute (and many already do)

We can't provide healthcare to the people we already have here.....either legal or undocumented. Why in Gods name would you change the laws to make it easier for even more people to come illegally and then guarantee them healthcare under the law?

If you think that's a winning policy position for the Democrats, well I have news for you, you'll be enjoying 4 more years of President Trump

I don't think undocumented people should be denied healthcare, I just think they shouldn't be guaranteed  the same level of health care coverage under the law as everyone else. That was actually proposed at the Democratic debate when Bernie and Warren proposed abolishing everyone's private healthcare and replacing it with Medicaid for All

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/claire-mccaskill-you-will-lose-voters-with-free-healthcare-for-undocumented-immigrants-64933957914

[J70]

First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

[whitey]

First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

If you don't believe me, would you believe Jeh Johnson, Obama's head off Homeland Security:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-dhs-secretary-im-a-democrat-but-decriminalizing-illegal-immigration-is-bad-for-the-country%3f_amp=true


"Johnson, who served as secretary of homeland security from 2013 to the end of Obama's presidency in 2017, has previously stated that decriminalizing border crossings is "tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders."


But anyone who disagrees with you guys are right wing zealots, right?

[Eamonnca1]

First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

If you don't believe me, would you believe Jeh Johnson, Obama's head off Homeland Security:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-dhs-secretary-im-a-democrat-but-decriminalizing-illegal-immigration-is-bad-for-the-country%3f_amp=true


"Johnson, who served as secretary of homeland security from 2013 to the end of Obama's presidency in 2017, has previously stated that decriminalizing border crossings is "tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders."


But anyone who disagrees with you guys are right wing zealots, right?

Argumentum ab auctoritate.

[Eamonnca1]

Amnesty-yes-and put the Southern border in lockdown mode until the 12M undocumented have been absorbed and given legal status. Anyone who is here must be here legally, participate and contribute (and many already do)

We can't provide healthcare to the people we already have here.....either legal or undocumented. Why in Gods name would you change the laws to make it easier for even more people to come illegally and then guarantee them healthcare under the law?

If you think that's a winning policy position for the Democrats, well I have news for you, you'll be enjoying 4 more years of President Trump

I don't think undocumented people should be denied healthcare, I just think they shouldn't be guaranteed  the same level of health care coverage under the law as everyone else. That was actually proposed at the Democratic debate when Bernie and Warren proposed abolishing everyone's private healthcare and replacing it with Medicaid for All

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/claire-mccaskill-you-will-lose-voters-with-free-healthcare-for-undocumented-immigrants-64933957914

How do you plan to perform that little miracle? Build a wall? What about the ones that come in legally through airports and overstay their tourist visas? Are you going to build a roof to keep the planes out?

[Eamonnca1]

Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.

Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

[seafoid]

Immigration is a distraction from the real issue

The richest 1% of Americans own $21 trillion dollars in stocks

https://www.ft.com/content/2501e154-4789-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

That would buy a decent healthcare system with enough left over for dessert.



https://youtu.be/kqB-wf49Xsc

[J70]

First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

If you don't believe me, would you believe Jeh Johnson, Obama's head off Homeland Security:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-dhs-secretary-im-a-democrat-but-decriminalizing-illegal-immigration-is-bad-for-the-country%3f_amp=true


"Johnson, who served as secretary of homeland security from 2013 to the end of Obama's presidency in 2017, has previously stated that decriminalizing border crossings is "tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders."


But anyone who disagrees with you guys are right wing zealots, right?

Calm yourself.

And no, I do not agree with Johnson.

What or where is the evidence that decriminalizing crossing the border is the same as abandoning it?

How about we label right wing attitudes towards guns as being for the murder of our children?

I'm not saying I'm necessarily for decriminalization, BTW, whether on principle or electoral pragmatism.

[J70]

Bernies supporters are already claiming on Twitter that they are going to win the popular vote, so strap yourself in.

Regarding Trump....I'm not "down" with him, but based on the fake dossier, 17  fisa "errors" and the Democrats despicable behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing I now actually hate them more than I hate Trump.  If the whole place is going to burn down ( no pun intended) I'd prefer it burn down with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court

You have the conservative majority on the Supreme Court (a stolen one). How that is going to make society or your or anyone else's life better, I have no idea.

And your perceived Democratic scandals have been more than topped by Trump and his minions at this point.

You could have voted for Bloomberg, not Bernie.

Well first of all, what happened with Merrick Garland was very wrong and I've said that many times before.

Regarding voting for Bloomberg, my dislike of Warren trumps my like of Bloomberg. If she loses her home state then her electability in a general election comes under serious scrutiny

The key question should be who you like more between Bloomberg and Trump?

Trump will beat Warren. Scaremongering is his and the GOP's thing. She's an easy target.

If you prefer Bloomberg to Trump, you should have voted for him. He has a good chance in the general, if he can make it through the primaries.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Coronavirus could throw a massive spanner into all this.

Posted in other thread - KA flight attendant on an A380 into LA has come down with the virus.


Assuming that its broke out and loose in the US - then the healthcare system is about to come under massive pressure. The sitting president (rightly or wrongly) gets undue blame for current affairs. Donald wanted to dismantle Obamacare and Bernie is a strong campaigner on healthcare.

Could be the storm that break's The Donald's back.

[screenexile]

Coronavirus could throw a massive spanner into all this.

Posted in other thread - KA flight attendant on an A380 into LA has come down with the virus.


Assuming that its broke out and loose in the US - then the healthcare system is about to come under massive pressure. The sitting president (rightly or wrongly) gets undue blame for current affairs. Donald wanted to dismantle Obamacare and Bernie is a strong campaigner on healthcare.

Could be the storm that break's The Donald's back.

But Trump saw this coming before anyone and did the travel closings so . . .

[whitey]

Bernies supporters are already claiming on Twitter that they are going to win the popular vote, so strap yourself in.

Regarding Trump....I'm not "down" with him, but based on the fake dossier, 17  fisa "errors" and the Democrats despicable behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing I now actually hate them more than I hate Trump.  If the whole place is going to burn down ( no pun intended) I'd prefer it burn down with a conservative majority on the Supreme Court

You have the conservative majority on the Supreme Court (a stolen one). How that is going to make society or your or anyone else's life better, I have no idea.

And your perceived Democratic scandals have been more than topped by Trump and his minions at this point.

You could have voted for Bloomberg, not Bernie.

Well first of all, what happened with Merrick Garland was very wrong and I've said that many times before.

Regarding voting for Bloomberg, my dislike of Warren trumps my like of Bloomberg. If she loses her home state then her electability in a general election comes under serious scrutiny

The key question should be who you like more between Bloomberg and Trump?

Trump will beat Warren. Scaremongering is his and the GOP's thing. She's an easy target.

If you prefer Bloomberg to Trump, you should have voted for him. He has a good chance in the general, if he can make it through the primaries.

I would argue that as a sitting Senator in MA, and with the entire Democratic turnout machine behind her Warren will probably win MA with Bernie coming in close second. He did very well here against Hillary in 2016 and is neck in neck with Warren in the polls.

If he beats her though, it's game over for her, and in MA, Independents like me can pull whatever ballot we want in a Primary. Warren is actually hated by a lot of people here and you could have a lot of  Independents come specifically to do her in

[whitey]

First of all I don't advocate "rounding up and deporting" anyone (except criminals). I even said earlier today that those who are here illegally should be given legal status....a view I have shared many times on here in the past

If I see 12 Democratic Presidential Candidates all raise their hands when asked if they will decriminalize illegal border crossing.....that's open borders in my book. I don't need to watch Fox News to tell me what I just saw with my own two eyes.

And then when asked if they will extend universal Healthcare coverage to all current and future undocumented residents those 12 Democratic Candidates all raise their hands again. You think we have problems now when providing healthcare to the neediest in society.....wait until this $hit show comes to pass.

If Open Borders works so well for the EU, then why did the 2nd largest "net contributor", the UK just pull out. Didn't seem to work too well for them did it?

That is a very loose interpretation of "open borders".

You can make something a civil offense instead of a criminal one, with penalties other than jail. Doesn't mean you're throwing the gates open and pulling all your security and checkpoints from the border, allowing people to flood across unchallenged.

If you don't believe me, would you believe Jeh Johnson, Obama's head off Homeland Security:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-dhs-secretary-im-a-democrat-but-decriminalizing-illegal-immigration-is-bad-for-the-country%3f_amp=true


"Johnson, who served as secretary of homeland security from 2013 to the end of Obama's presidency in 2017, has previously stated that decriminalizing border crossings is "tantamount to declaring publicly that we have open borders."


But anyone who disagrees with you guys are right wing zealots, right?

Calm yourself.

And no, I do not agree with Johnson.

What or where is the evidence that decriminalizing crossing the border is the same as abandoning it?

How about we label right wing attitudes towards guns as being for the murder of our children?

I'm not saying I'm necessarily for decriminalization, BTW, whether on principle or electoral pragmatism.

So now according to Eamonn, Jeh Johnson.....President Obama's head of Homeland Security......is repeating Fox News/Republican Party talking points on immigration-LOL

"Open borders" is a Fox News talking point that they repeat like a mantra, in the same way that they use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse, in the hope that people will think there's something wrong with open borders without having any idea why"

Maybe Eamonn doesn't realize, but the election is decided by SWING VOTERS. Open Borders will cost the The Democrats dearly at the ballot box if they run in this