Where now for Tyrone?

[JoG2]

tyrone may have won ulster but i actually think we were better last year. ulster is crap at the minute longford no disrespect beat down and monaghan last year. tyrone will not win another sam under mr conservative. hes the cheaper option at the minute for a team thats going to be rudderless next year on the pitch with all the old heads gone.

As bad as you say Ulster is, it still had 5 of the last 12 in the Championship this season.

There's a big gap between Dublin, Mayo Kerry and Tyrone - the results over the past three years have shown that and it's widened in that time rather than narrowed. And there's a big gap now opening up between Dublin and the rest, to be fair to Mayo they have competed admirably against Dublin and have never feared them but if Dublin go out and win the final with more comfort this time round, it's very worrying for the future of the game.

People who continually moan about defensive systems and style of football really get my back up. The All Ireland is competitive football, it is not exhibition football, teams are going about themselves in the way that they best believe can make them successful or competitive at the least. It goes without saying Dublin are a fearsome side, but with the advantages they have in terms of resources -financial and playing numbers, local employment, Croke Park being their de facto home ground.

The real death knell about about gaelic football right now is one side which always had superior natural advantages which no other side can come close to matching have managed to get their structures in order and as a result will dominate for time to come.

So those lamenting defensive football can shove it, it's something that's been borne out of bigger problem.

That's nonsense in fairness. Sport the world over can be played competitively and entertainingly, it doesn't have to be dross to be competitive. I hate the way Tyrone play as it's awful to watch but I can understand Carlow or the like playing it but when Tyrone play like that against teams inferior to them then the sport itself is damaged. Earlier in the year the likes of yourself and some others were telling us all that at least the Ulster counties don't roll over and have a defensive plan to stifle the Dubs, well that proved to be the nonsense some of us told you it was.

We've already seen this year that football played properly is still a wonderful spectacle, the best in world sport for my money. Tyrone can compete playing more expansive football, you've some of the best players in Ireland, and if you back yourselves then you'll compete with anyone. You mightn't beat the Dubs too often but you'll never again beat them playing 14 behind the ball so surely it's better to entertain your fans on the journey?

Zulu, I'm with Bomber here. It's damage limitation with most counties and it's the way it will stay for the foreseeable. It's a balls as a spectacle but that's the way of it.

Your bit in bold, you're talking about 3 counties out of 33 who play this way that can compete at the very top end.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Happy enough for Harte to stay on.

The style of football doesn't bother me as long as its getting the best out of the players available to him, which I think he is. I'd like to see a few defenders given a run next year and see if we can be a little bit more aggressive and on the front foot in what we're doing.

Unfortunately we're really lacking in big talented inside forwards which makes us very predictable. Coney has had his chances as has Niall McKenna, I don't think McNulty has the mobility to be effective in the very big games. Apart from that I don't think there is any other real options. I think Ronan O'Neill lacks the pace to be a top forward and McCurry looks like a player bereft of confidence the past two years, perhaps a year out might do him the world of good.

I'd like to see the squad freshened up in some ways.

We're badly lacking in size now with Justy and Sean Cavanagh stepping away so we'll need to add a few big physical lads back into the mix. How has Conor Clarke being doing with Omagh?

I'm sorry Bomber but this is a prime example of the aforementioned blind faith. The idea that Mickey got the best out of the players available to him against Dublin is ridiculous. All of the sides that Tyrone beat on their way to the semi were inferior. Dublin was the test of the system and we needed to at least make it some kind of contest to prove that Mickey had got this right. The game was effectively over in the 4th minute. Not because Dublin are miles better - but because Tyrone's system meant they couldn't come back from that goal. We needed to be more than the sum of our parts to have a chance against the Dubs. Because of Mickey's system, we were considerably less than the sum of our parts. A long, long way from getting the best out of the players. He needs to change his philosophy entirely.

[blewuporstuffed]

Happy enough for Harte to stay on.

The style of football doesn't bother me as long as its getting the best out of the players available to him, which I think he is. I'd like to see a few defenders given a run next year and see if we can be a little bit more aggressive and on the front foot in what we're doing.

Unfortunately we're really lacking in big talented inside forwards which makes us very predictable. Coney has had his chances as has Niall McKenna, I don't think McNulty has the mobility to be effective in the very big games. Apart from that I don't think there is any other real options. I think Ronan O'Neill lacks the pace to be a top forward and McCurry looks like a player bereft of confidence the past two years, perhaps a year out might do him the world of good.

I'd like to see the squad freshened up in some ways.

We're badly lacking in size now with Justy and Sean Cavanagh stepping away so we'll need to add a few big physical lads back into the mix. How has Conor Clarke being doing with Omagh?

I'm sorry Bomber but this is a prime example of the aforementioned blind faith. The idea that Mickey got the best out of the players available to him against Dublin is ridiculous. All of the sides that Tyrone beat on their way to the semi were inferior. Dublin was the test of the system and we needed to at least make it some kind of contest to prove that Mickey had got this right. The game was effectively over in the 4th minute. Not because Dublin are miles better - but because Tyrone's system meant they couldn't come back from that goal. We needed to be more than the sum of our parts to have a chance against the Dubs. Because of Mickey's system, we were considerably less than the sum of our parts. A long, long way from getting the best out of the players. He needs to change his philosophy entirely.

I would very much doubt that is going to happen.

[rosnarun]

is it not really just a case of Tyrone having a horror show against a strong Dublin team who are ruthless when the sense weakness, but other than that tyrone had quiet a good year and one match does not make a pattern. whether it was harte in charge or not tyrone are a top 4 side but a bit behind the other 3 but nothing a bit of new blood could not fix.
like wise
Kerry could have easily beaten mayo day 1 with a last minute free and would possibly be favorites foe the all Ireland but now are describe as a rabble who have to be dismantled.
the current short term thinking is what is damaging team and causing any drift between the top teams and the rest . Mangers must be given a free reign to settle and plan for the future or else you will end up with Tom Carr or Banty as manager every second year

[seafoid]

The Rosary ws the wrong idea.
GAA is about performance at speed, not being on your knees.

Maybe someone else would understand that.

Mickey will always be Tyrone manager. He just doesn't have to call the shots.

[Kurtz]

Lot of potential in that Tyrone team. I wouldn't be writing any obituaries just yet
They have the right ingredients. bags of pace and skill

As for the gap between teams
If you look back over the last 60 years nothing much has changed
People seem more annoyed that it is Dublin who currently sit on top
No guarantee they will stay there. Current Dublin bunch are mentally and physically strong and skillful
the perfect storm
The next generation might not be

[trueblue1234]

tyrone may have won ulster but i actually think we were better last year. ulster is crap at the minute longford no disrespect beat down and monaghan last year. tyrone will not win another sam under mr conservative. hes the cheaper option at the minute for a team thats going to be rudderless next year on the pitch with all the old heads gone.

As bad as you say Ulster is, it still had 5 of the last 12 in the Championship this season.

There's a big gap between Dublin, Mayo Kerry and Tyrone - the results over the past three years have shown that and it's widened in that time rather than narrowed. And there's a big gap now opening up between Dublin and the rest, to be fair to Mayo they have competed admirably against Dublin and have never feared them but if Dublin go out and win the final with more comfort this time round, it's very worrying for the future of the game.

People who continually moan about defensive systems and style of football really get my back up. The All Ireland is competitive football, it is not exhibition football, teams are going about themselves in the way that they best believe can make them successful or competitive at the least. It goes without saying Dublin are a fearsome side, but with the advantages they have in terms of resources -financial and playing numbers, local employment, Croke Park being their de facto home ground.

The real death knell about about gaelic football right now is one side which always had superior natural advantages which no other side can come close to matching have managed to get their structures in order and as a result will dominate for time to come.

So those lamenting defensive football can shove it, it's something that's been borne out of bigger problem.

That's nonsense in fairness. Sport the world over can be played competitively and entertainingly, it doesn't have to be dross to be competitive. I hate the way Tyrone play as it's awful to watch but I can understand Carlow or the like playing it but when Tyrone play like that against teams inferior to them then the sport itself is damaged. Earlier in the year the likes of yourself and some others were telling us all that at least the Ulster counties don't roll over and have a defensive plan to stifle the Dubs, well that proved to be the nonsense some of us told you it was.

We've already seen this year that football played properly is still a wonderful spectacle, the best in world sport for my money. Tyrone can compete playing more expansive football, you've some of the best players in Ireland, and if you back yourselves then you'll compete with anyone. You mightn't beat the Dubs too often but you'll never again beat them playing 14 behind the ball so surely it's better to entertain your fans on the journey?

I disagree with you on this. I don't believe Tyrone would beat Dublin playing a more expansive game. I don't think they would have any better an opportunity that playing a defensive approach (If they played the defensive approach right and actually got a touch on Dublin).

[Il Bomber Destro]

Is the question not where now for the rest? Dublin are so far ahead its getting scary as it shows no sign of slowing down. The way I see it:

Dublin






Mayo
Kerry


Tyrone





The Rest

Something needs to be addressed on structures or financing of teams.
If Dublin beat Mayo out the gate in the final will this have been the worst Football Championship ever played?

I wouldn't say there's much if any basis to say Kerry are currently ahead of Tyrone.

[From the Bunker]

Is the question not where now for the rest? Dublin are so far ahead its getting scary as it shows no sign of slowing down. The way I see it:

Dublin






Mayo
Kerry


Tyrone





The Rest

Something needs to be addressed on structures or financing of teams.
If Dublin beat Mayo out the gate in the final will this have been the worst Football Championship ever played?

I wouldn't say there's much if any basis to say Kerry are currently ahead of Tyrone.

Kerry are the only team Dublin did not beat this year!

[seafoid]

Maybe Dublin are not that great. Maybe Tyrone were overrated

[Il Bomber Destro]

tyrone may have won ulster but i actually think we were better last year. ulster is crap at the minute longford no disrespect beat down and monaghan last year. tyrone will not win another sam under mr conservative. hes the cheaper option at the minute for a team thats going to be rudderless next year on the pitch with all the old heads gone.

As bad as you say Ulster is, it still had 5 of the last 12 in the Championship this season.

There's a big gap between Dublin, Mayo Kerry and Tyrone - the results over the past three years have shown that and it's widened in that time rather than narrowed. And there's a big gap now opening up between Dublin and the rest, to be fair to Mayo they have competed admirably against Dublin and have never feared them but if Dublin go out and win the final with more comfort this time round, it's very worrying for the future of the game.

People who continually moan about defensive systems and style of football really get my back up. The All Ireland is competitive football, it is not exhibition football, teams are going about themselves in the way that they best believe can make them successful or competitive at the least. It goes without saying Dublin are a fearsome side, but with the advantages they have in terms of resources -financial and playing numbers, local employment, Croke Park being their de facto home ground.

The real death knell about about gaelic football right now is one side which always had superior natural advantages which no other side can come close to matching have managed to get their structures in order and as a result will dominate for time to come.

So those lamenting defensive football can shove it, it's something that's been borne out of bigger problem.

That's nonsense in fairness. Sport the world over can be played competitively and entertainingly, it doesn't have to be dross to be competitive. I hate the way Tyrone play as it's awful to watch but I can understand Carlow or the like playing it but when Tyrone play like that against teams inferior to them then the sport itself is damaged. Earlier in the year the likes of yourself and some others were telling us all that at least the Ulster counties don't roll over and have a defensive plan to stifle the Dubs, well that proved to be the nonsense some of us told you it was.

We've already seen this year that football played properly is still a wonderful spectacle, the best in world sport for my money. Tyrone can compete playing more expansive football, you've some of the best players in Ireland, and if you back yourselves then you'll compete with anyone. You mightn't beat the Dubs too often but you'll never again beat them playing 14 behind the ball so surely it's better to entertain your fans on the journey?

You must be completely misunderstanding my point.

Just try and play open football with Dublin at the minute and they will blow you apart. The pace, size and power they have across the pitch is impossible to deal with.

Trying to remain competitive has changed many counties hands when it comes to the style of football they play. I'm sure every county would love to play open attacking football but the gulf is getting so wide that by playing with mass defence they may at least have some chance or some hope.

Defensive football is not ruining the sport, the near on professional attitude of the top counties supported by big resources is what's doing it and nobody can compete with the natural advantages Dublin have here.

Take your head out of the sand.

[magpie seanie]

tyrone may have won ulster but i actually think we were better last year. ulster is crap at the minute longford no disrespect beat down and monaghan last year. tyrone will not win another sam under mr conservative. hes the cheaper option at the minute for a team thats going to be rudderless next year on the pitch with all the old heads gone.

As bad as you say Ulster is, it still had 5 of the last 12 in the Championship this season.

There's a big gap between Dublin, Mayo Kerry and Tyrone - the results over the past three years have shown that and it's widened in that time rather than narrowed. And there's a big gap now opening up between Dublin and the rest, to be fair to Mayo they have competed admirably against Dublin and have never feared them but if Dublin go out and win the final with more comfort this time round, it's very worrying for the future of the game.

People who continually moan about defensive systems and style of football really get my back up. The All Ireland is competitive football, it is not exhibition football, teams are going about themselves in the way that they best believe can make them successful or competitive at the least. It goes without saying Dublin are a fearsome side, but with the advantages they have in terms of resources -financial and playing numbers, local employment, Croke Park being their de facto home ground.

The real death knell about about gaelic football right now is one side which always had superior natural advantages which no other side can come close to matching have managed to get their structures in order and as a result will dominate for time to come.

So those lamenting defensive football can shove it, it's something that's been borne out of bigger problem.

That's nonsense in fairness. Sport the world over can be played competitively and entertainingly, it doesn't have to be dross to be competitive. I hate the way Tyrone play as it's awful to watch but I can understand Carlow or the like playing it but when Tyrone play like that against teams inferior to them then the sport itself is damaged. Earlier in the year the likes of yourself and some others were telling us all that at least the Ulster counties don't roll over and have a defensive plan to stifle the Dubs, well that proved to be the nonsense some of us told you it was.

We've already seen this year that football played properly is still a wonderful spectacle, the best in world sport for my money. Tyrone can compete playing more expansive football, you've some of the best players in Ireland, and if you back yourselves then you'll compete with anyone. You mightn't beat the Dubs too often but you'll never again beat them playing 14 behind the ball so surely it's better to entertain your fans on the journey?

You must be completely misunderstanding my point.

Just try and play open football with Dublin at the minute and they will blow you apart. The pace, size and power they have across the pitch is impossible to deal with.

Trying to remain competitive has changed many counties hands when it comes to the style of football they play. I'm sure every county would love to play open attacking football but the gulf is getting so wide that by playing with mass defence they may at least have some chance or some hope.

Defensive football is not ruining the sport, the near on professional attitude of the top counties supported by big resources is what's doing it and nobody can compete with the natural advantages Dublin have here.

Take your head out of the sand.

Correct. Even the wonderful purists from Kerry put in place a "negative" and hard hitting defensive system to defeat Dublin in the league final. Wing backs playing in the forwards and the likes. The game is what it is and everything is biased against defenders (4 step rule not enforced, soft frees given, diving rewarded etc) so the only answer against very good attackers is to try and crowd them out. It's ok against most teams as their skill levels are lower and they'll muck it up themselves but the likes of Tyrone are preparing for the better sides so play the system all the time.

[sligoman2]

Seanie, did you see that Carew resigned today.  Is it Eamon O time?.....

[vallankumous]

Kerry are the only team Dublin did not beat this year!

They didn't beat Donegal either.

[LCohen]

Tyrone can play how they like. Their job is to maximise results. If this is how they see it is best to work within the current rules then so be it. It is not their responsibility to entertain.

It is also important that the game is entertaining. We can't sleep walk into a position where we are explaining to a younger generation that the game is important and they should watch it or play it because its important rather than because its any good.


There are supposed to be custodians of the game. They do have a responsibility to keep it entertaining. They do have a responsibility to the neutral.

And its not a case of ach sure there is nothing that can be done about it or its just a fad that will pass.

Its also not about Tyrone. Tyrone are terrible to watch. Other counties are terrible to watch. Lots of clubs, schools and colleges are terrible to watch.

People complain about the black card but it was the best measure that the powers that be could get through. More aggressive management of the future of the game is needed. And the professional coaching class and supporters of winning sides will be the hardest to convince