Some of the commentary has been giving out about the GAA using penalty shoot-outs to decide a drawn game, which is understandable. You might as well toss a coin. I agree that shootouts look out of place in the GAA. But then replays aren't much better, they get criticism for being the "Grab All Association" when they do that.
So what's the best way to decide a drawn game?
In the states they do another period of extra time, and if it's still drawn then it's sudden death; next score wins. Would something like that work at inter-county level? Just play extra time and then go to sudden death?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 27, 2022, 04:36:32 PM
Some of the commentary has been giving out about the GAA using penalty shoot-outs to decide a drawn game, which is understandable. You might as well toss a coin. I agree that shootouts look out of place in the GAA. But then replays aren't much better, they get criticism for being the "Grab All Association" when they do that.
So what's the best way to decide a drawn game?
In the states they do another period of extra time, and if it's still drawn then it's sudden death; next score wins. Would something like that work at inter-county level? Just play extra time and then go to sudden death?
Sudden death fairer than penalties although the wind is a big factor.
A replay the first option if there is a free weekend. Could easily have played Armagh v Galway again this Saturday.
Always been replays but it mean reverting to previous calendar. Even now biggest games was the 4 game classic between Dublin and Meath in 1991.Always felt if u good enough to finish level, after 70mins, a replay with extra time is the best option. I don't ever like extra time in the current 1st day game.
It's amazes me the Gaa doesn't go for it as it was there best money maker outside of concerts.
first to 3 points after normal extra time
replays favour the big teams more i think
another one is continues 5 minute periods until there is a winner
In order of preference:
1. Replay
2. Two further 5 minute periods
3. Golden score (provided the conditions don't very obviously benefit one side over the other)
4: Something mad like a 1v1 drill where the forward starts on the half way line, with the defender on the 45, and then has 30 seconds to have a shot.
5: Tossing a coin
6: Rock/ Paper/ Scissors
...
99: Penalties
Striking the ball from the ground is a fundamental skill in soccer, therefore penalties are an acceptable skill challenge to separate opponents.
Striking the ball from the ground is not a fundamental skill in in Gaelic football, therefore penalties are not an acceptable skill challenge to separate opponents.
Outside of specialist set-piece takers, Gaelic footballers are not required to possess the skill of striking the ball off the ground. Most frees can be taken from the hand; goalies use tees to strike the ball; and striking a 45 involves a completely different action compared with hitting a penalty.
The whole thing is alien and perfunctory. A really unimaginative, ugly solution that satisfies no one.
Penalties.
Major League Soccer did a thing in the 1990s where, instead of taking penalties, you had the ball placed on a spot which I think was the halfway line. The player had to dribble the ball up towards the net and then take a shot, so the goalie could come off his line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNExAtWu0CU
Looks a bit odd to the purist, but I feel like it had something to recommend it and had a bit more skill to it than a standard penalty. Would it work in Gaelic football? Solo up to the net and try to beat the goalie?
also has no one ever suggested the team with more goals should its level
Quote from: Eire90 on June 27, 2022, 05:11:10 PM
also has no one ever suggested the team with more goals should its level
I like that idea. It would create additional drama on the last few minutes
I like penalties. And Armagh seem to be the GAA equivalent of England at penalties so I like that as well.
Highest points tally or goal tally, which ever one you're trying to promote. Prefer the points tally myself
What about taking 45s out of your hands. Would possibly help improve players ability to score long range points, a skill that sadly appears to be on the wane
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 27, 2022, 05:18:17 PM
Highest points tally or goal tally, which ever one you're trying to promote. Prefer the points tally myself
I like the idea of highest goal tally.
Higher points tally only serves to encourage the scourge on the game that is the mundane fist pass over the bar - a skill which a drunken snake could execute.
All Ireland series games (QF, SF and Final) should have extra time and then if it's still level a replay. In the replay extra time if required and then next score wins.
Penalties or 21 yard frees from halfway out to the sideline.
Left footed points
Best Panenka
Best rendition of a Marquee in Drumlish
Longest time hanging off crossbar
Cleanest goalie after penos
Penalty shootouts in hockey would probably be better to copy than what we have now.
Quote
the attacker gets a chance to run with the ball in a one-on-one situation against the goalkeeper. The attacker starts on the 23-metre line with the ball and the goalkeeper starts on the goal line. When the whistle is blown, both can move and the attacker has 8 seconds to score a goal
Keep extra time.
With the proviso that the unused subs (including gks) during normal time, have to play all of extra time.
And if the management decide that an unused sub has an "injury" and has to be taken off, then he can't be replaced.
either that, or the county with the best All-Ireland record in Scór is declared the winner.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 04:39:03 PM
A replay the first option if there is a free weekend. Could easily have played Armagh v Galway again this Saturday.
Rules are clear and the same for all so they couldn't play it again next week
Hypothetically where would it be played next weekend??
And the winners out the following weekend again!
Kicking the ball off the ground was a fundamental skill for years till these frees from the hand came in. Now only goalies know how to kick a ball off the ground.
Penalties have existed in Gaelic football since....?
Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2022, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 04:39:03 PM
A replay the first option if there is a free weekend. Could easily have played Armagh v Galway again this Saturday.
Rules are clear and the same for all so they couldn't play it again next week
Hypothetically where would it be played next weekend??
And the winners out the following weekend again!
Kicking the ball off the ground was a fundamental skill for years till these frees from the hand came in. Now only goalies know how to kick a ball off the ground.
Penalties have existed in Gaelic football since....?
Penalties to punish fouls not penalty shootout to decide a knock out championship match.
Plenty of provincial grounds could have hosted the replay on Saturday or Sunday. A week rest so be it however that is on HQ with their congested season and its only going to get worse next year with 4 groups of 4 to find the last 8.
"HQ" implementing what Congress voted for.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 06:53:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2022, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 04:39:03 PM
A replay the first option if there is a free weekend. Could easily have played Armagh v Galway again this Saturday.
Rules are clear and the same for all so they couldn't play it again next week
Hypothetically where would it be played next weekend??
And the winners out the following weekend again!
Kicking the ball off the ground was a fundamental skill for years till these frees from the hand came in. Now only goalies know how to kick a ball off the ground.
Penalties have existed in Gaelic football since....?
Penalties to punish fouls not penalty shootout to decide a knock out championship match.
Plenty of provincial grounds could have hosted the replay on Saturday or Sunday. A week rest so be it however that is on HQ with their congested season and its only going to get worse next year with 4 groups of 4 to find the last 8.
The congested season has been great and penalties are a great way to decide games like yesterday where around 100 minutes have been played. Penalties are a test of nerve and skill. Galway showed great skill and nerve with the quality of their penalties.
Counting 45's like we do at kids tournaments ;)
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 27, 2022, 05:21:22 PM
What about taking 45s out of your hands. Would possibly help improve players ability to score long range points, a skill that sadly appears to be on the wane
Would be better than penalties for sure. The one v one thing similar to ice hockey or the mls years ago is a novel idea as well. Most goals is another good idea imo would make the game more exciting. Anything but f'ing penalties.
Quote from: lenny on June 27, 2022, 07:10:03 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 06:53:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2022, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 04:39:03 PM
A replay the first option if there is a free weekend. Could easily have played Armagh v Galway again this Saturday.
Rules are clear and the same for all so they couldn't play it again next week
Hypothetically where would it be played next weekend??
And the winners out the following weekend again!
Kicking the ball off the ground was a fundamental skill for years till these frees from the hand came in. Now only goalies know how to kick a ball off the ground.
Penalties have existed in Gaelic football since....?
Penalties to punish fouls not penalty shootout to decide a knock out championship match.
Plenty of provincial grounds could have hosted the replay on Saturday or Sunday. A week rest so be it however that is on HQ with their congested season and its only going to get worse next year with 4 groups of 4 to find the last 8.
The congested season has been great and penalties are a great way to decide games like yesterday where around 100 minutes have been played. Penalties are a test of nerve and skill. Galway showed great skill and nerve with the quality of their penalties.
In your opinion.
Least amount of hand passes........
Or a big melee at the end
Some one has to be disappointed. Dragging this out for another week for Amateur players is wrong. If you are good enough to win over 70+ or 90+ minutes then good. If not, you can't have any complaints going out to penalties.
Media sources will say otherwise because they want to sell more papers, podcasts, TV advertising etc.
10 minutes of 10 v 10
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 27, 2022, 08:05:21 PM
Some one has to be disappointed. Dragging this out for another week for Amateur players is wrong. If you are good enough to win over 70+ or 90+ minutes then good. If not, you can't have any complaints going out to penalties.
Media sources will say otherwise because they want to sell more papers, podcasts, TV advertising etc.
People love a moan, There's no nice way to lose a tight epic and it can swing on many things- referring decisions, bounce of the ball, cheating etc At least the winner has a couple of weeks off to get over knocks and be refreshed for an AI semi. For the loser there's always next year, same as it ever was.
If Armagh or Galway had to face again and then play Derry the week after with fatigued players and maybe minus a couple through injury there'd be some amount of moaning, especially if Derry cruised to victory. Prolong the championship there's be more moaning. Everyone knew what they were getting into.
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 27, 2022, 07:49:14 PM
Least amount of hand passes........
Or a big melee at the end
Your second suggestion was made in jest but made me think the team with the best discipline could be rewarded in the event of a draw after extra time. Every foul could be recorded as a point, every yellow card 3 points, black card 4 points and red cards 6 points. Team with the fewest penalty points goes through. Fourth official could keep tabs on penalty points. Still think penalties are better though.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 07:14:43 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 27, 2022, 07:10:03 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 06:53:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2022, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 27, 2022, 04:39:03 PM
A replay the first option if there is a free weekend. Could easily have played Armagh v Galway again this Saturday.
Rules are clear and the same for all so they couldn't play it again next week
Hypothetically where would it be played next weekend??
And the winners out the following weekend again!
Kicking the ball off the ground was a fundamental skill for years till these frees from the hand came in. Now only goalies know how to kick a ball off the ground.
Penalties have existed in Gaelic football since....?
Penalties to punish fouls not penalty shootout to decide a knock out championship match.
Plenty of provincial grounds could have hosted the replay on Saturday or Sunday. A week rest so be it however that is on HQ with their congested season and its only going to get worse next year with 4 groups of 4 to find the last 8.
The congested season has been great and penalties are a great way to decide games like yesterday where around 100 minutes have been played. Penalties are a test of nerve and skill. Galway showed great skill and nerve with the quality of their penalties.
In your opinion.
Lol, that's all everyone is giving on here.
Quote from: trailer on June 27, 2022, 05:14:51 PM
I like penalties. And Armagh seem to be the GAA equivalent of England at penalties so I like that as well.
Stop will ya. I'm starting to like you ffs.
Fastest team to milk cows by hand competition? It would save electricity having all 26 panel members milking 52 cows and it would be great tv.
Go for Ice Hockey Style only include a defender but once the player has rounded the defender he's out of the game and the attacker only has one shot at goal
Quote from: lenny on June 27, 2022, 08:38:28 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 27, 2022, 07:49:14 PM
Least amount of hand passes........
Or a big melee at the end
Your second suggestion was made in jest but made me think the team with the best discipline could be rewarded in the event of a draw after extra time. Every foul could be recorded as a point, every yellow card 3 points, black card 4 points and red cards 6 points. Team with the fewest penalty points goes through. Fourth official could keep tabs on penalty points. Still think penalties are better though.
Very dependant on ref interpretation. we see many games when a ref is harsh on one team and not on another
Most scores from play or most 45's?
Replay the following Wednesday
It's penalties all day if there is no replay.
Some utter nonsense suggested and I hope most of it is in jest.
Like everything in the GAA when something happens everyone that doesn't like it gets a platform and starts shouting. They never shout before the event. Or offer alternatives before or after. They just shout.
Quote from: Louther on June 28, 2022, 03:43:51 PM
It's penalties all day if there is no replay.
Some utter nonsense suggested and I hope most of it is in jest.
Like everything in the GAA when something happens everyone that doesn't like it gets a platform and starts shouting. They never shout before the event. Or offer alternatives before or after. They just shout.
Absolutely. It's the least worst way, and far better than some of the suggestions I've seen.
Some of the rhetoric after the penalty shootout is ridiculous e.g.
- Penalties are completely alien to Gaelic footballers
- Penalties are borrowed from soccer
Do people not realise there are penalties already in Gaelic football when the ref blows for a foul within the large parallelogram?
There were penalties in Gaelic Football before there were penalties in soccer.
Also, the idea of penalties in soccer came from Ireland.
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2022, 04:19:05 PM
Some of the rhetoric after the penalty shootout is ridiculous e.g.
- Penalties are completely alien to Gaelic footballers
- Penalties are borrowed from soccer
Do people not realise there are penalties already in Gaelic football when the ref blows for a foul within the large parallelogram?
There were penalties in Gaelic Football before there were penalties in soccer.
Also, the idea of penalties in soccer came from Ireland.
People associate penalties with soccer, and soccer with Englishness. It's anglophobia.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 27, 2022, 05:21:22 PM
What about taking 45s out of your hands. Would possibly help improve players ability to score long range points, a skill that sadly appears to be on the wane
Scoring long range points a skill on the wane?? I would contend the present generation are streets ahead on this aspect of the game (as they are in most skills).
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 27, 2022, 06:49:14 PM
Personally not a fan of "WOTD" for the first game in a knockout fixture, though I understand why the GAA have this in place for the current, more condensed intercounty championship calendar for this year at least. Personally I'd have gone for a replay AET for this coming Thursday or Friday evening in Salthill (namely that as provincial champions, Galway should have home advantage in this case) with the replay itself having to be decided on the night.
In theory that makes sense, and the first few times it'd be gratefully accepted, but within a few years the reason for it would be forgotten and we'd have the moans from managers about recovery times and the winners needing more time to recover etc etc.
Maybe a good starting point would be to remove this ridiculous rule that extra time is a 'new game' and have all cards issued during games continue into extra time, then we mightn't have the issue arise, or probably wouldn't in this instance!
Quote from: onefineday on June 28, 2022, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 27, 2022, 06:49:14 PM
Personally not a fan of "WOTD" for the first game in a knockout fixture, though I understand why the GAA have this in place for the current, more condensed intercounty championship calendar for this year at least. Personally I'd have gone for a replay AET for this coming Thursday or Friday evening in Salthill (namely that as provincial champions, Galway should have home advantage in this case) with the replay itself having to be decided on the night.
In theory that makes sense, and the first few times it'd be gratefully accepted, but within a few years the reason for it would be forgotten and we'd have the moans from managers about recovery times and the winners needing more time to recover etc etc.
Maybe a good starting point would be to remove this ridiculous rule that extra time is a 'new game' and have all cards issued during games continue into extra time, then we mightn't have the issue arise, or probably wouldn't in this instance!
Agree. Never understood if someone acted like a knob during a match and was on a yellow why it suddenly disappears in extra time. It's still the same game so until that is over the cards should carry through.
First to get 2 points or a goal.
Quote from: Louther on June 28, 2022, 03:43:51 PM
It's penalties all day if there is no replay.
Some utter nonsense suggested and I hope most of it is in jest.
Like everything in the GAA when something happens everyone that doesn't like it gets a platform and starts shouting. They never shout before the event. Or offer alternatives before or after. They just shout.
These two statements contradict each other. This thread is full of alternatives.
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2022, 04:19:05 PM
Some of the rhetoric after the penalty shootout is ridiculous e.g.
- Penalties are completely alien to Gaelic footballers
- Penalties are borrowed from soccer
Do people not realise there are penalties already in Gaelic football when the ref blows for a foul within the large parallelogram?
There were penalties in Gaelic Football before there were penalties in soccer.
Also, the idea of penalties in soccer came from Ireland.
You can score a point with those penalties and if you kick it over the bar in soccer its not counted as score. Penalty shootout are goals only that count and i think the hockey penalty shootout would be more suitable to GAA.
Quote from: onefineday on June 28, 2022, 05:54:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 27, 2022, 05:21:22 PM
What about taking 45s out of your hands. Would possibly help improve players ability to score long range points, a skill that sadly appears to be on the wane
Scoring long range points a skill on the wane?? I would contend the present generation are streets ahead on this aspect of the game (as they are in most skills).
The art of place kicking is on the wane. Loads of teams use goalkeepers to kick long range frees or 45s nowadays and most are not very good at it either.
2 x 5 min periods.
Then 2 more 5 min periods.
Then 3 penalties. Same kickers continue if more that 3 needed.
1. Free kicks off the ground from various distances and angles like the rugby boys do.
2. Penalties, but let the opposition choose at least two of the penalty takers:
Quote from: onefineday on June 28, 2022, 05:54:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 27, 2022, 05:21:22 PM
What about taking 45s out of your hands. Would possibly help improve players ability to score long range points, a skill that sadly appears to be on the wane
Scoring long range points a skill on the wane?? I would contend the present generation are streets ahead on this aspect of the game (as they are in most skills).
Are they told not to shoot then?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 28, 2022, 08:04:37 PM
Quote from: onefineday on June 28, 2022, 05:54:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 27, 2022, 05:21:22 PM
What about taking 45s out of your hands. Would possibly help improve players ability to score long range points, a skill that sadly appears to be on the wane
Scoring long range points a skill on the wane?? I would contend the present generation are streets ahead on this aspect of the game (as they are in most skills).
Are they told not to shoot then?
yes untill they are sure . dublin being the prime example but if that plan does not work few better team for long range shooting.
but it is easier now as the ball is always Dry and pitches are smoother and there is less chance of having you head taken off in a tackle
They should have used a crowd clapometer.
In true reality TV fashion, a public vote on who they think are deserving winners. Participating counties can't vote.
After all, everyone on the message board is right, so the public would also be right ;) ;) ;) ;D
Nothing wrong with penalties in my mind.
I also dont mind that matches need to have a winner on the day.
I do agree though that I think cards should carry over. Extra time is an extension of the full game so I dont understand why cards don't already follow through.
What about instead of penalties, the team with the least number of cards and/or the team that committed the least amount of fouls? Would address any discipline issues? Referee could take some flak in this scenario though.
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 29, 2022, 02:00:08 PM
In true reality TV fashion, a public vote on who they think are deserving winners. Participating counties can't vote.
After all, everyone on the message board is right, so the public would also be right ;) ;) ;) ;D
Nothing wrong with penalties in my mind.
I also dont mind that matches need to have a winner on the day.
I do agree though that I think cards should carry over. Extra time is an extension of the full game so I dont understand why cards don't already follow through.
What about instead of penalties, the team with the least number of cards and/or the team that committed the least amount of fouls? Would address any discipline issues? Referee could take some flak in this scenario though.
At club level I would end up in the boot of some car after the match!!
I'd propose a Squid Game Green light/Red Light game from one end line to the other. Keep going until last man standing. And sure feck it, up to all Ireland final use a paintball gun but for final it should be live ammunition.
if a weaker team manage to take the games to penalty and upset a big fave would their be much complaning example if somehow cork took dublin to pens and won would they be talking about the penalty's or the upset
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2022, 04:19:05 PM
Some of the rhetoric after the penalty shootout is ridiculous e.g.
- Penalties are completely alien to Gaelic footballers
- Penalties are borrowed from soccer
Do people not realise there are penalties already in Gaelic football when the ref blows for a foul within the large parallelogram?
There were penalties in Gaelic Football before there were penalties in soccer.
Also, the idea of penalties in soccer came from Ireland.
Try that one again.
A game of 7s where first to 2 or 3 goals wins it.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 29, 2022, 10:45:00 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2022, 04:19:05 PM
Some of the rhetoric after the penalty shootout is ridiculous e.g.
- Penalties are completely alien to Gaelic footballers
- Penalties are borrowed from soccer
Do people not realise there are penalties already in Gaelic football when the ref blows for a foul within the large parallelogram?
There were penalties in Gaelic Football before there were penalties in soccer.
Also, the idea of penalties in soccer came from Ireland.
Try that one again.
1891 v 1940
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 29, 2022, 02:00:08 PM
In true reality TV fashion, a public vote on who they think are deserving winners. Participating counties can't vote.
After all, everyone on the message board is right, so the public would also be right ;) ;) ;) ;D
Nothing wrong with penalties in my mind.
I also dont mind that matches need to have a winner on the day.
I do agree though that I think cards should carry over. Extra time is an extension of the full game so I dont understand why cards don't already follow through.
What about instead of penalties, the team with the least number of cards and/or the team that committed the least amount of fouls? Would address any discipline issues? Referee could take some flak in this scenario though.
I'm not saying refs are biased, but unconsciously things creep in. We see games where the ref is hard on some teams, and some teams couldn't buy a card if they took someone's head off. We can't rely on what a ref did during the match re discipline as more often than not they get some things on the field wrong. I remember the Ulster final 2020, the ref gave Cavan 2 black cards that were never ones in a million years. He nearly affected the result of the game, but luckily didn't. We can't depend on this metric.
With penalties the players are in charge of the outcome.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2022, 08:36:48 AM
With penalties the players are in charge of the outcome.
Exactly. And keepers too. Both teams have a say in each penalty.
What about a dance off?
Game of 45s or crossbar challenge.
Scor or set dancing.
Tug of war?
Conkers at the right time of year, if not then knuckles
About as relevant to the game of GAA as penalties
Penalties it is.
Everybody knows the craic beforehand.
The GAA has more important things to sort out.
Agreed.
Though genuinely believe the goals scored would be a decent differentiator, which would cut the number of games going to penalties by a significant margin, with the added bonus of encouraging teams to go for goals and reducing the number of balls thrown over the bar.
Other than that, I haven't seen a single workable proposal
I also don't fully understand the theory that it's a 'horrible way to lose'
Is it any worse than losing by a point AET?
I've yet to see anyone present a tangible reason as to why exactly it's so horrible
It seems like another one of those buzz phrases that lads love to say cos they heard someone on the telly say it once and thought it sounded good
70 mins, followed by 2 x 10 min periods of extra time, followed by play on till someone goes 2 (or 3, to be decided) in front.
Yes, you could be in Croke Park till 10pm but imagine the craic ;D
Players may not like the above though.
i would just have the first to 2 or 3 points after extra time that way its still all the elements of gaelic football it just becomes a mini match
Quote from: balladmaker on July 07, 2022, 11:47:08 PM
70 mins, followed by 2 x 10 min periods of extra time, followed by play on till someone goes 2 (or 3, to be decided) in front.
Yes, you could be in Croke Park till 10pm but imagine the craic ;D
Players may not like the above though.
I just like sudden death. Next score wins.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on July 08, 2022, 04:10:34 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 07, 2022, 11:47:08 PM
70 mins, followed by 2 x 10 min periods of extra time, followed by play on till someone goes 2 (or 3, to be decided) in front.
Yes, you could be in Croke Park till 10pm but imagine the craic ;D
Players may not like the above though.
I just like sudden death. Next score wins.
So just keep going at the end of the second half of extra time then.