What now?
One of Ireland's potential gems is turning into a sewer.
Some alot of dead fish starting to turn up. There too much farming run off ending up in it to start with. A hot June followed by heavy rain fall caused the issue to explode.
Inputs like farm runoff will have to be more carefully managed in future. Autumn and winter rain should help but it is a warning.
Sheughs on the southern shore run straight into the lough. If there's slurry-spreading going on as described on the other thread then that couldn't be good.
Water systems are fragile. The Israelis took too much water out of the Dead Sea.
https://youtu.be/Oqh6hGLqAG8
Fixing problems can be very expensive.
Ballyronan has got desperate looking this year. The water has a permanent later of green on top.
biggest threat to the bio-diversity of the Lough is sand dredging. The volume of famous Lough Neagh midges which feed so many fish and birds has dwindled to nothing.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 22, 2023, 04:11:16 PM
biggest threat to the bio-diversity of the Lough is sand dredging. The volume of famous Lough Neagh midges which feed so many fish and birds has dwindled to nothing.
And that's led to an explosion in housing in the countryside. It used to be a certain type of person that would put up with living in the county with the midges coming out in their squillions in the summer evenings. Now all the townies are moving out to the lough shore where they can have a big house, so the place is turning into a big traffic-ridden suburb.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 22, 2023, 04:11:16 PM
biggest threat to the bio-diversity of the Lough is sand dredging. The volume of famous Lough Neagh midges which feed so many fish and birds has dwindled to nothing.
Zebra mussel major problem.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
Is the Tory post Brexit vote, supported by DUP, that makes it easier to pump raw sewage into lakes and sea anything to do with the sad state of Lough Neagh? A horrid bunch to vote for that.
I see 5 or 6 root causes already here but of course we all know its really due to Climate Change.
There is green algae on loads of lakes and water bodies where raw sewage isn't being pumped into, it is a sign of poor water quality though - it should start to fade away you would think when the temperatures start to cool a bit
Quote from: Itchy on August 23, 2023, 01:30:36 PM
I see 5 or 6 root causes already here but of course we all know its really due to Climate Change.
Extreme summer heat is cough cough linked to climate change.
Quote from: Saffrongael on August 23, 2023, 01:40:02 PM
There is green algae on loads of lakes and water bodies where raw sewage isn't being pumped into, it is a sign of poor water quality though - it should start to fade away you would think when the temperatures start to cool a bit
Not to the same extent as lough neagh just now though. The blue green algae is being caused by eutrophication, allsorts of things being emptied into the rivers and finding its way into lough neagh, in essence the lough is being treated as one big septic tank for the north or ireland.
The implications go above the lough also, the algae is now travelling up the bann and out onto beaches etc, mans greed and all that.
Surely the suspension of Stormont and budgeting etc isn't helping. The DUP is dysfunctional.
Quote from: seafoid on August 23, 2023, 02:19:40 PM
Surely the suspension of Stormont and budgeting etc isn't helping. The DUP is dysfunctional.
Probably not, wasnt poots minister for the environment or such? A farmer himself.
Until people with relevant expertise and knowledge are put into these posts then nothing will change, these people havent a clue and are placed in charge of these departments for a few years before the stormont merry go round starts again and they are moved somewhere else.
How long before this recovers?? Or will it ever recover?
Quote from: JimStynes on August 23, 2023, 03:01:41 PM
How long before this recovers?? Or will it ever recover?
Realistically this could take decades to recover but may never fully recover.
The lough has been dredged of sand, had thousands upon thousands of tons of raw sewage and slurry washed into it, it is on the brink of collapse.
Scary thing is 40% of the norths drinking water comes from here, not to mention bottled water from the lough neagh basin, how many chemicals are being used to turn that water from toxic green sludge into clear drinking water?
Quote from: seafoid on August 22, 2023, 05:35:40 AM
Inputs like farm runoff will have to be more carefully managed in future. Autumn and winter rain should help but it is a warning.
The rain doesnt necessarily help either, prior to weather warnings etc get out and have a look at local fields, they will be saturated in slurry and manure, the rain takes it into the watercourses and then out to lough or sea.
Much cheaper than having the slurry etc disposed.
Quote from: Upandover on August 23, 2023, 03:28:18 PM
Scary thing is 40% of the norths drinking water comes from here, not to mention bottled water from the lough neagh basin, how many chemicals are being used to turn that water from toxic green sludge into clear drinking water?
Now we know what is wrong with ye.
https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/2023/08/23/half-of-states-rivers-and-lakes-at-moderate-to-poor-ecological-status-between-2016-and-2021/
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 22, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
That dredging has been going on for generations. Would it really be causing any new problems?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2023, 04:35:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 22, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
That dredging has been going on for generations. Would it really be causing any new problems?
Sometimes it can take generations for things to eventually take its toll though.
It needs to brought into public ownership. All dredging etc stopped.
That Shaftesbury makes a f**king fortune of it.
Quote from: trailer on August 23, 2023, 05:32:00 PM
It needs to brought into public ownership. All dredging etc stopped.
That Shaftesbury makes a f**king fortune of it.
Fine Shaftesbury for having shite water on his property and use the money to buy it.
Farmers seem like the salt of the earth type guys
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 22, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
The sand removal is a major issue, ask any of the fishermen. One expert is reported as saying it would take 800 years to repair the damage done in the last 50.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2023, 04:35:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 22, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
That dredging has been going on for generations. Would it really be causing any new problems?
[/quote
I grew up on and learned to swim in the Lough. I wouldn't put a dog in it now. When I was growing up the Lough Neagh Midges swarmed in millions. On a summer night it was like smoke above the trees. Only people who grew up there could hack it. now there are houses everywhere and this year in particular not a midge in sight, down to 50 years of dredging. The extra housing due to an influx of non-natives is adding to the pressure. In addition even though the shoreline is a protected area people along the shore are levelling and filling in habitat and the DRD does not give too fucks.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 24, 2023, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2023, 04:35:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 22, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
That dredging has been going on for generations. Would it really be causing any new problems?
I grew up on and learned to swim in the Lough. I wouldn't put a dog in it now. When I was growing up the Lough Neagh Midges swarmed in millions. On a summer night it was like smoke above the trees. Only people who grew up there could hack it. now there are houses everywhere and this year in particular not a midge in sight, down to 50 years of dredging. The extra housing due to an influx of non-natives is adding to the pressure. In addition even though the shoreline is a protected area people along the shore are levelling and filling in habitat and the DRD does not give too fucks.
People from West Belfast? ;)
Lough Neagh made it into the Irish Times today.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/08/24/newton-emerson-too-many-cooks-turned-lough-neagh-into-a-disgusting-green-broth/
Quote from: johnnycool on August 24, 2023, 11:49:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 24, 2023, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2023, 04:35:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 22, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
That dredging has been going on for generations. Would it really be causing any new problems?
I grew up on and learned to swim in the Lough. I wouldn't put a dog in it now. When I was growing up the Lough Neagh Midges swarmed in millions. On a summer night it was like smoke above the trees. Only people who grew up there could hack it. now there are houses everywhere and this year in particular not a midge in sight, down to 50 years of dredging. The extra housing due to an influx of non-natives is adding to the pressure. In addition even though the shoreline is a protected area people along the shore are levelling and filling in habitat and the DRD does not give too fucks.
People from West Belfast? ;)
Blaming the Westies for what the farmers are shoving into the lakes/rivers/loughs!! While the farming kids are pissing the slurry all over the Holylands!
;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2023, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 24, 2023, 11:49:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 24, 2023, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2023, 04:35:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 22, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
That dredging has been going on for generations. Would it really be causing any new problems?
I grew up on and learned to swim in the Lough. I wouldn't put a dog in it now. When I was growing up the Lough Neagh Midges swarmed in millions. On a summer night it was like smoke above the trees. Only people who grew up there could hack it. now there are houses everywhere and this year in particular not a midge in sight, down to 50 years of dredging. The extra housing due to an influx of non-natives is adding to the pressure. In addition even though the shoreline is a protected area people along the shore are levelling and filling in habitat and the DRD does not give too fucks.
People from West Belfast? ;)
Blaming the Westies for what the farmers are shoving into the lakes/rivers/loughs!! While the farming kids are pissing the slurry all over the Holylands!
;D
Mainly from Lurgan, even worse ;D
Sure it was formed from horse pish anyway.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 24, 2023, 11:49:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 24, 2023, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 23, 2023, 04:35:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 22, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 22, 2023, 08:56:00 PM
Zebra mussel major problem.
Yep. Feck all to do with the sand.
Which is probably causing other problems
That dredging has been going on for generations. Would it really be causing any new problems?
I grew up on and learned to swim in the Lough. I wouldn't put a dog in it now. When I was growing up the Lough Neagh Midges swarmed in millions. On a summer night it was like smoke above the trees. Only people who grew up there could hack it. now there are houses everywhere and this year in particular not a midge in sight, down to 50 years of dredging. The extra housing due to an influx of non-natives is adding to the pressure. In addition even though the shoreline is a protected area people along the shore are levelling and filling in habitat and the DRD does not give too fucks.
People from West Belfast? ;)
Townies from Lurgan really. Living in the country as a lifestyle choice, able to enjoy more space, a bigger house, etc.. Last time I was there I was struck by the absence of the midges and the growing size of houses. The midges used to keep them away from even visiting the place to say nothing of living there, but that's no longer stopping them. I remember when the house of the McConaghys (Ashburn/Court House owners) on the Lough Road was the biggest and most impressive house in town, but now houses of that size or bigger have been thrown up along the ramparts of Derrytrasna.
According to Wikipedia the Lough provides 40% of the North's drinking water.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lough_Neagh
Was down near the lough yesterday for the first time in a while, and the smell hit you even a few miles away
https://www.antrimguardian.co.uk/news/2023/08/21/gallery/lough-neagh-is-bleeding-to-death-45925/#:~:text=A%20foul%20odour%20being%20reported,so%20strong%20is%20the%20smell. (https://www.antrimguardian.co.uk/news/2023/08/21/gallery/lough-neagh-is-bleeding-to-death-45925/#:~:text=A%20foul%20odour%20being%20reported,so%20strong%20is%20the%20smell.)
They need to get their finger out and measure water quality on different flows in the upper Bann and the lake, and tackle the worst cases immediately.
So what's the solution?
Will dredging the rivers help? I believe there was protests about that lately .
Was in Warrenpoint during the week. The smell of the place would've turned you whatever it was. Flys everywhere as well.
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 10, 2023, 02:10:15 PM
So what's the solution?
Will dredging the rivers help? I believe there was protests about that lately .
Why would dredging help this issue?
The lough has been treated like the norths septic tank with all manner of literal shite washed into it, this is the reason behind the algae in a nutshell.
Are a lot of nitrates flowing into the Lough on top of everything else ?
Yes, all manner of things being washed into the lough.
Slurry, fertiliser, sewage, as i said one large septic tank.
Quote from: Upandover on September 10, 2023, 03:50:28 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 10, 2023, 02:10:15 PM
So what's the solution?
Will dredging the rivers help? I believe there was protests about that lately .
Why would dredging help this issue?
The lough has been treated like the norths septic tank with all manner of literal shite washed into it, this is the reason behind the algae in a nutshell.
But surely all that crap has been emptying into the Lough for years. Why now are we only seeing the algae on this scale?
It has been there, just not to this extent, i assume it has taken a buildup of nutrients entering the lough for years that has lead to this tipping point and a complete explosion of algae.
Zebra mussels were introduced also which helps with water clarity but has enabled the sun to penetrate further and add to this issue.
It will only get worse also.
Interesting debate from a few years ago.
Unionists didn't want Lough Neagh in case it was part of a devious United Ireland ploy.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2012-04-17.1.1
Get her drained and give Tyrone another county to beat ;D
https://reddit.com/r/northernireland/s/1z1wMqYEtB
More of the stuff on the Down and Antrim side?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5sof7IaoAAG_rP?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: armaghniac on September 10, 2023, 11:56:30 PM
More of the stuff on the Down and Antrim side?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5sof7IaoAAG_rP?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Down? Armagh surely
Quote from: clonian on September 11, 2023, 02:19:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 10, 2023, 11:56:30 PM
More of the stuff on the Down and Antrim side?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5sof7IaoAAG_rP?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Down? Armagh surely
Antrim, Wee bit of Down and Armagh
Never realised there was any of Lough Neagh in Down. Not much of it to be fair.
Is that effect due to wind direction (south easterly) or is most of the contamination on the Antrim side?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/watch-sam-mcbrides-in-depth-look-at-lough-neaghs-blue-green-algae-crisis/a1939137878.html
Pretty grim video of what's going on there!
Quote from: screenexile on September 11, 2023, 04:06:12 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/watch-sam-mcbrides-in-depth-look-at-lough-neaghs-blue-green-algae-crisis/a1939137878.html
Pretty grim video of what's going on there!
That is shocking
Quote from: clonian on September 11, 2023, 03:40:28 PM
Never realised there was any of Lough Neagh in Down. Not much of it to be fair.
Is that effect due to wind direction (south easterly) or is most of the contamination on the Antrim side?
The only county in the occupied territories that doesn't have access to the lake is Fermanagh
It's about 10moke up the Bann too, basically were water not flowing the river.
Good point.
Quote from: clonian on September 11, 2023, 03:40:28 PM
Never realised there was any of Lough Neagh in Down. Not much of it to be fair.
Its literally a field or two of god's county marching the lough, no more than that.
Quote from: screenexile on September 11, 2023, 04:06:12 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/watch-sam-mcbrides-in-depth-look-at-lough-neaghs-blue-green-algae-crisis/a1939137878.html
Pretty grim video of what's going on there!
Is the algae processing the nutrients in the water or has the ecosystem collapsed ?
Happy to pay him exactly what he paid for the Lough. Seems a fair price.
By Tara Mills
BBC News NI
The man who owns the bed and soil of Lough Neagh has said he is still willing to sell it to the public - but won't give it away for free.
The ownership has been in the Earl of Shaftesbury's estate since the 1800s.
Campaigners say pollution is killing the lake, with wildlife and birds suffering after blue-green algal blooms over the summer.
Lough Neagh supplies half of Belfast's drinking water and 40% of Northern Ireland's overall.
The rights to the lough were given a price tag of £6m 10 years ago, but civil servants at the time advised the government not to go ahead with the sale. It is not known why.
'I always get blamed'
Nicolas Ashley-Cooper, who is the 12th member of his family to hold the title of Earl of Shaftesbury, told BBC News NI that a sale was something he was willing to discuss again.
Blue-green algae at Lough Neagh
Image caption,
The blooms are the result of settled weather, invasive species and water pollution - mostly due to agriculture
"The situation with the sale is one that's borne out of an understanding that my ownership has always been very divisive and quite political and I always get blamed for things that are completely outside of my control," he said.
"I feel it's often used as an excuse for political inaction and I always want to do the right thing by the people living here and what's in the best interest of the lough.
"I remain open to what's the best outcome for the lough."
But the Earl of Shaftesbury said he would not consider gifting it.
"I'm well aware there are people who think that way but I'd like to be treated as any other business owner and the business has a value," he said.
"If we were going to get into a conversation about ownership, then that would be taken account of."
Lough Neagh
IMAGE SOURCE,MARK GEDDIS
Image caption,
Some angling groups say pollution in the lough is putting livelihoods at risk
The ownership has been mired in controversy for hundreds of years and, in the past, there have been legal battles over fishing and hunting rights with the Shaftesbury Estate.
The earl does not think the latest environmental crisis is his responsibility.
"The issues at the moment are to do with the water, and our ownership is the bed and soil so the current situation is not our responsibility," he said.
"We are a stakeholder, though, of Lough Neagh and we are keen to be proactive in these discussions about how we come to a solution."
Some angling groups have said pollution in the lough is putting livelihoods at risk.
Lough Neagh is also home to the largest commercial wild eel fishery in Europe.
Anglers have been advised to catch and release fish that have been within the lough because of the risk the algae poses.
https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1709625715795062810
Lord John Kilclooney @KilclooneyJohn
Lough Neagh belongs to the people of Northern Ireland. The Earl of Shaftesbury never bought it and after hundreds of years his ownership should be cancelled. Why should someone living in England and who rarely ever has been in Northern Ireland benefit millions of pounds ??
Quote from: dec on October 04, 2023, 09:08:52 PMhttps://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1709625715795062810
Lord John Kilclooney @KilclooneyJohn
Lough Neagh belongs to the people of Northern Ireland. The Earl of Shaftesbury never bought it and after hundreds of years his ownership should be cancelled. Why should someone living in England and who rarely ever has been in Northern Ireland benefit millions of pounds ??
There's a bit or 'irony?' about that comment from him
Quote from: dec on October 04, 2023, 09:08:52 PMhttps://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1709625715795062810
Lord John Kilclooney @KilclooneyJohn
Lough Neagh belongs to the people of Northern Ireland. The Earl of Shaftesbury never bought it and after hundreds of years his ownership should be cancelled. Why should someone living in England and who rarely ever has been in Northern Ireland benefit millions of pounds ??
Another cracker from John Looney
I take it the London Livery Companies who were gifted vast swathes of Derry in the 1600's would be held to the same standard?
If so, there'll be a good few lads looking for their 20 acres!
What is the plan to fix the lough?
Have heard of a
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2023, 07:02:35 PMWhat is the plan to fix the lough?
Have heard of a bar selling a bright green cocktail called the Lough Neagh, so there's that.
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2023, 07:02:35 PMWhat is the plan to fix the lough?
Lots of authoritive bodies will put out statements saying "we are looking into...we are liaising with... we have met with..." etc.... bullsh1t statements that mean nothing at all
Nothing of note will be done, then the wintry weather will reduce algae somewhat , media will stop covering it until next summer, and it all begins again.
A bit like the bonfires and marching season
Surely regulating fertilisers would be a good start
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2023, 07:02:35 PMWhat is the plan to fix the lough?
can we not just lift out the plug then refill it?
I try to avoid reading twitter posts from loyalists, it is not good for my health. It is a real eye opener the amount of vile loyalists there are in this country.
I remember seeing one during the elections from a loyalist calling Sinn Fein voters "plastic paddies" and he said "No wonder the Irish are viewed as stupid by the rest of the world". So he called us plastic paddies and then in the same sentence called us Irish. I don't think loyalists can make up their minds what we are.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2023, 09:05:47 PMSurely regulating fertilisers would be a good start
Sewage has been allowed to run into it for years by all accounts. That didn't help
And those Zebra mussels would need to feck off back to their own country! (I think I've been following Kilcooney too long on twitter)
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 05, 2023, 10:26:45 PMAnd those Zebra mussels would need to feck off back to their own country! (I think I've been following Kilcooney too long on twitter)
It's a shame what has been allowed to happen to it with invasive species. Tahoe, on my doorstep, has the most stringent of boating policies, paddleboard and fisherman polices (considering half of the lake is in California it is not surprising). If your boat leaves the water (as in you don't buy a buoy or a docking station), you are screened upon re entry. All of the lakes in the sierras have the same policy for those boating nomads that don't dock in Tahoe year round. Yet this year a new invasive species of snail (New Zealand mud snails whatever the f**k they are) arrived in Tahoe, posing a significant threat to the ecosystem and a lake whos clarity and sheer amazingness drives billions in tourism. What boating restrictions are in place in Lough Neagh? A huge part of this is the landed gentry that own the basin and the soil - but sometimes (and I am ready to be corrected), in Ireland our own halfassery is complicit in our issues. Florida Everglades and the Burmese Python are a clear example of what an invasive species can do to a local ecosystem.
I see Muir the environment minister is meeting Shaftsbury, the f@cker who wants to sell us back our own property. Time dredging was banned as well.