The Offical Glasgow Celtic thread

[Hoof Hearted]

have ye not. open your ears and get out more.

[T Fearon]

Sambasaffron, no Celtic fan, least of all me, wants to see any Celtic manager fail, and if Strachan had presided over a run like this he'd have been run out of Glasgow. If anything Mowbray has got an easy ride.

The fact that so may players went off the boil simultaneously is more than coincidental, and the manager has to take responsibility, as the principal function of any manager in any walk of life is to get the best out of his human resources and create an environment where each one can realise his full potential.

There are no more excuses. As I said before it only took a couple of weeks for Brown and Calderwood to turn Motherwell and Killie around and get them playing with self belief, and they hadn't the luxury of bringing in players costing millions etc. Mowbray has shown not one inkling that he is up to the task of managing a big club like Celtic.

[rossie mad]

Tony jim gannon had motherwell where they are now and had them playing good football before he got the sack because he wouldnt commit to a contract.Craig brown being brought in hasnt seen the well jump up the table all of a sudden he is just continuing on the wells good results.
Calderwood hasnt done anything spectacular with kilmarnock either bar last nights result which id describe as a freak result.
Remember jefferies left because he got fed up with the killie chairman getting to involved in team affairs and nothing to do with their league position.
They have only moved to third from bottom they arnt going to suddenly jump into the top six now calderwood has got one or two good results.
I can guarentee you that killie will be lucky to finish in eigth spot this season and calderwood will just about get them winning about four more games this season.

Your comparisons dont stand up as motherwell were going well under gannon anyway and kilmarnock had no choice but bring in calderwood and like all mangerial changes the first few weeks are the honey moon period and after that people can tell whether the new man is doing a right job or not.
In celtics case mowbray was left with a two bit squad assembled by a one track minded manager.
He has gotton rid of the dead wood in his eyes and now is building a team he assembled and i believe this half of the season will see celtic going well.

[T Fearon]

Disagree totally. Mowbray was left with a squad that was one win away from being SPL Champions last season (Contrast thsi with the clapped out squad Strachan inherited way back in 2005). As I've said before, it should have been relatively easy to sustain a credible Championship challenge as well as simultaneously rejuvenate the squad. Murdo Mc Leod was right at the end of last season when he said minimal adjustments were all that were required.

Instead he brought in Fortune (a flop), Nguemo (a flop), Fox (a flop) etc and has made the fatal error of trying to gel a practically whole new team in mid season, with the best player we have seriously off the boil.

As for the changes made by Brown and Calderwood, these have been significant in a short space of time with no resources. Even Craig Burley said last night that he couldn't believe Killie's competitiveness and self belief when he was used to seeing them roll over when they played the Old Firm.

There are no scrappers in the Celtic team, just hanky ball players, no shape, pattern, or gameplan and this has been the case all season, and is simply reflective of a confused manager who cannot cope with pressure or managing the expectations of a world wide fan base, and who witters on about taking six points of Rangers, not realising that even if this miracle was achieved there's no guarantee that they wouldn't be lost again at Dundee Utd or Motherwell

[the colonel]

Disagree totally. Mowbray was left with a squad that was one win away from being SPL Champions last season (Contrast thsi with the clapped out squad Strachan inherited way back in 2005). As I've said before, it should have been relatively easy to sustain a credible Championship challenge as well as simultaneously rejuvenate the squad. Murdo Mc Leod was right at the end of last season when he said minimal adjustments were all that were required.

Instead he brought in Fortune (a flop), Nguemo (a flop), Fox (a flop) etc and has made the fatal error of trying to gel a practically whole new team in mid season, with the best player we have seriously off the boil.

As for the changes made by Brown and Calderwood, these have been significant in a short space of time with no resources. Even Craig Burley said last night that he couldn't believe Killie's competitiveness and self belief when he was used to seeing them roll over when they played the Old Firm.

There are no scrappers in the Celtic team, just hanky ball players, no shape, pattern, or gameplan and this has been the case all season, and is simply reflective of a confused manager who cannot cope with pressure or managing the expectations of a world wide fan base, and who witters on about taking six points of Rangers, not realising that even if this miracle was achieved there's no guarantee that they wouldn't be lost again at Dundee Utd or Motherwell

Tony your constant support for some of Strachans minging players who he has just bought again is laughable. N'Guemo has been far from a flop, to be fair he was poor enough last night, and Fortune has just started to show his worth. He has missed about 2 1/2 months and is starting to get into a bit of form.

I was at plenty of games last season where there wasnt any game plan, never mind a back up. I'd be confident that Celtic could win the league for the next few years with a decent squad we have now when it gets settled. At the end of the day, Strachan had a better squad starting out than what Mowbray had starting. And if you defend Stephen McManus one more time you should be locked up

[rossie mad]

What bloody changes has craig brown made?
Motherwell were going well anyway before he came in.Thats a ridiculous statement seeing that the team was doing fine only for the previous manager and board to fall out.

You should know that all teams put it up to the old firm on their home patch and last night was no different.
Plus the added fanfare around celtic signing keane would have taken the pressure totally off kilmarnock and calderwood toke advantage of this.
Are you saying that in the two weeks calderwood has become manager that kilmarnock are now a complete team and will be unbeatable? Complete rubbish.

The team strachan left behind missed out on an SPL to an even worse side so that doesnt inspire confidence in them and then to see 80% of the transfers out going to a mediocre championship side that was in the top three when strachan took over and then that other balloon caldwell in the middle of a defence that conceded two to the king pins that are notts county plus scoring an og himself for good measure.

The fact is that side strachan had was mediocre at best and now mowbray has the task of building a team for the future to dominate scottish football and get rid of most of the rubbish strachan brought in.He is doing this at the moment and its work in progress.

On the point about our best player not playing well i presume you mean mcgeady.
At least mowbray actually spaeaks to him and doesnt ignore him.

[Myles Na G.]

Tony Mowbray's a decent man, but he's a football dreamer. Celtic don't need a dreamer at the helm, they need someone who can win football matches.

[rossie mad]

while we are on the subject of dreaming when are you going to wake up from that dream of yours of being a celtic supporter?

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

What bloody changes has craig brown made?
Motherwell were going well anyway before he came in.Thats a ridiculous statement seeing that the team was doing fine only for the previous manager and board to fall out.

Going so well that they hadnt won in 7 games? Granted Gannon made some astute signings in the summer and had Motherwell playing some nice stuff early on (couple of terrible European scores apart) but his man management skills seem to have left a lot to be desired. He fell out with a number of the squad as well as the board and his crusade against the media and referees did him no favours. Motherwell was a really unhappy camp by the end of the December and they would probably be at the bottom of the league by now had Gannon still been in charge. Brown was lucky in that he assembled a decent enough squad but in fairness to him he has them doing better than Gannon had managed. Calderwood is a bit different and Im not sure anybody can credibly claim he has turned Killie around given they hadnt won a game under him until last night.

Must say Im surprised by the mess Mowbray has made of the Celtic job so far. The signings and results have not been good enough and his naivety with the media is bizarre. He says he needs time to turn Celtic around but given the budget he has and the competent squad inherited it should have been possible for him to put his own stamp on and keep winning the vast majority of SPL games at the same time. Being 10 points a very limited and totally skint Rangers team is poor indeed.
The transfer window flurry of activity doesnt inspire confidence either, the man spends weeks stressing about how its a long term project then signs a load of players on short term loan deals .

For whats its worth I thought he was right to move on Caldwell, Killen and Flood. Robson might have been worth keeping until the end of the season to help tide Celtic over. McDonald was a good player for Celtic but at £3.5m that was a good deal. McManus probably was worth keeping. By no means a great player but a steady left sided centre half (not so many of those around) and also a good leader on the park. Alongside the right partner he would have done a job.
Strachan is not a great manager (and he is making a total mess of Middlesbrough) but he did what was asked of him at Celtic and knew how to deliver success in Scotland and at least compete in Europe. Mowbray might still manage that but at this stage it looks a long shot.

[lynchbhoy]

Sambasaffron, no Celtic fan, least of all me, wants to see any Celtic manager fail, and if Strachan had presided over a run like this he'd have been run out of Glasgow. If anything Mowbray has got an easy ride.

The fact that so may players went off the boil simultaneously is more than coincidental, and the manager has to take responsibility, as the principal function of any manager in any walk of life is to get the best out of his human resources and create an environment where each one can realise his full potential.

There are no more excuses. As I said before it only took a couple of weeks for Brown and Calderwood to turn Motherwell and Killie around and get them playing with self belief, and they hadn't the luxury of bringing in players costing millions etc. Mowbray has shown not one inkling that he is up to the task of managing a big club like Celtic.

he did and then left himself...

[lynchbhoy]

It is at least gratifying to see that Mowbray's erstwhile supporters have deserted him. I said after Strachan's resignation last May that his reign would be revised in a new light in the seasons to come. I never particularly liked him as a person but I thought under the circumstances, although far from perfect, he did a good enough job.

Bringing in a gang of new players mid season, who lets face it, apart from Keane, have no proven pedigree, and jettisoning the likes of Caldwell (Scotland's Player of the Year a while ago), Robson, Mc Donald, and Mc Manus (none of whom are world beaters admittedly, but all of whom had experience of coming from behind Rangers, and winning games and the league under extreme pressure, and most of them Scots as well), doesn't seem like a sensible thing to do. Also Mc Geady is way out of form (just like Mc Donald, Mc Manus and Caldwell before him). This is too much of a coincidence and responsibility must rest with the manager and his failure to get players to play to their full potential.

Mowbray looked utterly clueless last night on the sidelines. Its obvious that managing Celtic and the attendant pressures are all far too much for him and he's way out of his depth. The Board need to act now, as much for Mowbray's own good as that of the club.

mcdonald has been shocking since christmas last year. Strachan presided over a bigger debacle of being at the club a couple of years and still losing a massive lead and the league.

POTY awards are great, but still dont make caldwell a good player. Have you not seen him play. While mcmanus is likable hes not a centre half or a lb. Left sided in a back three maybe. Mcdonald sold for massive profit when he has lost his touch from over a year ago - thats good business. Robson I would have kept.

McGeady has not played well under strachan lest we forget the rows and benchings of the young starlet -  gs who almost sold him can take no credit there either.

strachan left a mess and I like what I see of his cleaning out the deadwoon.

However I feel mogga made serious mistakes the other night. Too patient with Fortune, should have played rasmussen. I presume ODea was inj - and he was a loss given his recent form. Too many changes parachuted into the team - forced and unforced and that didnt help.
I expect this will improve. Will it be enough to overhaul rangers -unlikely but you never know.

Celtic need continuity and consistency as they should have beaten rangers in all games this season instead of a win, draw and loss.

I cant see mogga being sacked. who or what would replace him ? Owen coyle is still too inexperienced so wheredoes that leave lambert. Rem the last two inexperienced managers Celtic had - Brady and barnes...
yes - I do !!

[take_yer_points]

It is at least gratifying to see that Mowbray's erstwhile supporters have deserted him. I said after Strachan's resignation last May that his reign would be revised in a new light in the seasons to come. I never particularly liked him as a person but I thought under the circumstances, although far from perfect, he did a good enough job.

Bringing in a gang of new players mid season, who lets face it, apart from Keane, have no proven pedigree, and jettisoning the likes of Caldwell (Scotland's Player of the Year a while ago), Robson, Mc Donald, and Mc Manus (none of whom are world beaters admittedly, but all of whom had experience of coming from behind Rangers, and winning games and the league under extreme pressure, and most of them Scots as well), doesn't seem like a sensible thing to do. Also Mc Geady is way out of form (just like Mc Donald, Mc Manus and Caldwell before him). This is too much of a coincidence and responsibility must rest with the manager and his failure to get players to play to their full potential.

Mowbray looked utterly clueless last night on the sidelines. Its obvious that managing Celtic and the attendant pressures are all far too much for him and he's way out of his depth. The Board need to act now, as much for Mowbray's own good as that of the club.

mcdonald has been shocking since christmas last year. Strachan presided over a bigger debacle of being at the club a couple of years and still losing a massive lead and the league.

POTY awards are great, but still dont make caldwell a good player. Have you not seen him play. While mcmanus is likable hes not a centre half or a lb. Left sided in a back three maybe. Mcdonald sold for massive profit when he has lost his touch from over a year ago - thats good business. Robson I would have kept.

McGeady has not played well under strachan lest we forget the rows and benchings of the young starlet -  gs who almost sold him can take no credit there either.

strachan left a mess and I like what I see of his cleaning out the deadwoon.

However I feel mogga made serious mistakes the other night. Too patient with Fortune, should have played rasmussen. I presume ODea was inj - and he was a loss given his recent form. Too many changes parachuted into the team - forced and unforced and that didnt help.
I expect this will improve. Will it be enough to overhaul rangers -unlikely but you never know.

Celtic need continuity and consistency as they should have beaten rangers in all games this season instead of a win, draw and loss.

I cant see mogga being sacked. who or what would replace him ? Owen coyle is still too inexperienced so wheredoes that leave lambert. Rem the last two inexperienced managers Celtic had - Brady and barnes...
yes - I do !!

I don't think Owen Coyle is the right man either but if you think he's still too inexperienced then Mowbray isn't too far behind him. Both started management within a year of each other (both with Scottish clubs before moving to English clubs and getting both promoted to the Premier League). Their managerial experience is similar.

[lynchbhoy]

I don't think Owen Coyle is the right man either but if you think he's still too inexperienced then Mowbray isn't too far behind him. Both started management within a year of each other (both with Scottish clubs before moving to English clubs and getting both promoted to the Premier League). Their managerial experience is similar.

Think mowbray has that extra year on coyle ?
other than that yes I would agree very similar credentials with both mangers gaining promotion to epl etc Mowbray would have had better (arguably) exp in spl.

But thats my point anyhow, this is the level that Celtic are able toget - the lower ranked epl manager level. The guus hiddinks etc are out of reach.
Who else can celtic get. its a step up from Strachan who I dont think won promotion etc or anything as a manager - though I could be wrong.

I also dont know if Tony is correct in saying that Desmond will be picking up Keanes wages.
Must try to find out. It would be a break from the norm for DD. If anything I'd expect Keane to be part funded by spurs !

[T Fearon]

Well he certainly picked up the tab for Roy Keane's wages, but I suppose with merchandise sales and extra bums on seats etc,its a question of speculating to accumulate.

Its a sorry state of affairs but you wouldn't bet on Celtic beating anyone at the moment and I don't see the logic of those berating Strachan after a few weeks at Middlesbro while still supporting Mowbray after six months at Celtic Park.

The rest of the season will tell the tale, that is if Mowbray lasts beyond the weekend (surely defeat to Dunfermline would bring the curtain down?). If Strachan gets Boro into a play off place with largely Celtic's team from last year, and Mowbray doesn't at least get within striking distance of Rangers, or vice versa, then that will prove who the better manager is. I genuinely hope they both do well, and if Mowbray proves me wrong I'll gladly hold my hands up.

Still think Lambert has done enough to merit a chance, perhaps with Neil Lennon as his back up, and John Hughes seems to have the knack as well.

[lynchbhoy]

Well he certainly picked up the tab for Roy Keane's wages, but I suppose with merchandise sales and extra bums on seats etc,its a question of speculating to accumulate.

Its a sorry state of affairs but you wouldn't bet on Celtic beating anyone at the moment and I don't see the logic of those berating Strachan after a few weeks at Middlesbro while still supporting Mowbray after six months at Celtic Park.

The rest of the season will tell the tale, that is if Mowbray lasts beyond the weekend (surely defeat to Dunfermline would bring the curtain down?). If Strachan gets Boro into a play off place with largely Celtic's team from last year, and Mowbray doesn't at least get within striking distance of Rangers, or vice versa, then that will prove who the better manager is. I genuinely hope they both do well, and if Mowbray proves me wrong I'll gladly hold my hands up.

Still think Lambert has done enough to merit a chance, perhaps with Neil Lennon as his back up, and John Hughes seems to have the knack as well.

...the boro team that were in the top few of their div before strachan took over?

it matters not as he was just not good enough in the end and seemed to have lost the dressing room, mcgeady ,boruc, brown and others.
The comparison is back at you as you keep bringing up the strachan taking over from MON scenario etc.
John Hughes is the exact same as Mogga - great at hibs and a couple of smaller jobs before - but still imo too soon to take Celtic.
Prob too soon for mowbray too but he's there now.

Sacking mowbray would be crazy - who else can be brought in...unless they break the bank for Hiddink etc

as for Lambo- rem bares and brady ?