Brexit.

[T Fearon]

Doesn't matter about being in tune with anyone.Fact is unionism won again.

My so called utopian view of the North is such that yesterday wouldn't occur,because the toxic competing ideologies of Ulster Unionism and Irish Nationalism would no longer exist as political forces,but would be instead replaced by one Northern Irish community not owing divisive misplaced allegiances to other sovereign states who,as yesterday proved beyond doubt,neither value nor understand us.

[Franko]

Doesn't matter about being in tune with anyone.Fact is unionism won again.

My so called utopian view of the North is such that yesterday wouldn't occur,because the toxic competing ideologies of Ulster Unionism and Irish Nationalism would no longer exist as political forces,but would be instead replaced by one Northern Irish community not owing divisive misplaced allegiances to other sovereign states who,as yesterday proved beyond doubt,neither value nor understand us.

Seriously??  Are you banking on all the current unionists and nationalists leaving or are they just going to stop having political views?

[naka]

Tony,
You are an intelligent guy of a similar age to me but am shocked that you could see this place working.
I am not a shinner but I share their goals  as regards unification as does my family and friends
Northern Ireland is never going to function properly as a state with two competing identities.
Unionism would rather this place is an economic wasteland than allow Dublin any say.
Nationalism sees unity in sight albeit may be decades away.

[T Fearon]

Naka,I see no future persisting with unionism and nationalism.It is divisive,and can provide no basis for anything other than at best stalemate.Yesterday if they could have done it,the British would have sold the unionists down the river,Dublin would and has done likewise to northern nationalists.Sinn Fein,the de facto voice of Northern nationalism is despised in Dublin ten times as much as the DUP

Therefore what is the point tearing ourselves apart with misguided allegiances to these two states who neither care about us or understand us? I personally think it would be hard enough to fuse northern Catholics into a United Ireland now,given the cultural differences (opposition to same sex marriage etc) never mind unionists



Some form of independence up here,with support in the interim from London,Dublin and the EU,would be a starting point that would render both unionism and nationalism obsolete.As an eminent surgeon,John Robb said,both Britain and Ireland should jointly renounce all sovereign claims to the North as a starting point.

[Rossfan]

In effect they already have in the GFA.
Sovereignty rests with the voters of the 6 Cos.

Anyway the train is being put back on the rails
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/1205/925045-government-border-negotiations/

[T Fearon]

Sovereignty always rested with the voters of the six counties.I remember there was a border poll in the early 70s.This concept long predates the GFA.

The problem is the UK with full agreement of Dublin won't even permit a border poll,even though unionism is in the minority in terms of Stormont seats.Let's be honest,if there was by some miracle unanimous support for a United Ireland here tomorrow,Dublin would crap itself.

[seafoid]

Seafoid most voters are extremist up here,in that they default to the most macho party on their side to rival the other side's most macho party,that's why the DUP and SF are both so strong.In a lot of cases votes are cast simply to keep the other side out,not on the basis of reason or logic.

voters don't tend to want to pauperise themselves. Even if they speak ulster Scots

[T Fearon]

They don't think even about economics or anything else.As long as themmuns are kept out or unhappy that's all that matters.

[WT4E]

RTE should have kept their mouths shut!!! 

[Milltown Row2]

Ive ran out of popcorn! whats happening now?

Ive got my wine in for the weekend.. Tesco doing 25% on six or more bottles.. 4.69 a pop that works out at! decent plonk

[heganboy]

Sovereignty always rested with the voters of the six counties.I remember there was a border poll in the early 70s.This concept long predates the GFA.

The problem is the UK with full agreement of Dublin won't even permit a border poll,even though unionism is in the minority in terms of Stormont seats.Let's be honest,if there was by some miracle unanimous support for a United Ireland here tomorrow,Dublin would crap itself.

Aye Tony, they have to give back 13 billion they don't want, where are they going to put the additional tax revenues and economic benefits of a 32 county economy?

[seafoid]

The thing about the DUP is that they havé offered no coherent alternative . Arlene says all the businesses she has spoken to want to follow England since it is their biggest market. But Brexit will shrink the UK economy  . Workers rights will be protected in the SM.

Who is funding the DUP?  This is much, much worse than marches.

[Milltown Row2]

The thing about the DUP is that they havé offered no coherent alternative . Arlene says all the businesses she has spoken to want to follow England since it is their biggest market. But Brexit will shrink the UK economy  . Workers rights will be protected in the SM.

Who is funding the DUP?  This is much, much worse than marches.

Pro brexit businesses?

[Rois]

Who is funding the DUP?  This is much, much worse than marches.

They apparently had a very expensive dinner the night before the conference the other week.  Not sure we'll see many pics in the Ulster Tatler.

They don't think even about economics or anything else.As long as themmuns are kept out or unhappy that's all that matters.

This is sadly so true. 

[north_antrim_hound]

Yes.

Yesterday by the way proved my point,in demonstrating how little understanding both London and Dublin have of the complexities of politics in the North.We are not,on either side,amenable or persuaded by reason,logic or economics,we prioritise an Irish Language Act over a failing Health Service,or avoidance of nominal borders in the Irish Sea over economic potential because it makes us different from the UK.

It also is very clear that Dodds is the  real DUP leader,an Oxbridge graduate with far more political experience and dare I say it,ability,than anyone on the nationalist side.

Nigel Dodds are you serious
A man that once encouraged grown up bigots to verbally abuse children going to school at holy cross in Belfast has ability to do what. Politicians of great ability have a knack of appealing to all sides and bring compromises that can accomadte everybody
His education didn't learn him anything as he is one of the most entrenched bigots up here