Anyone see this on UTV?
Friday, 18 December 2009 20:07
Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams has called on his brother Liam to give himself up to police who want to question him about sex abuse allegations against a family member.
Liam Adams, who is in his 50s, has lived in Dundalk and Co Donegal at different stages and gardaí are aware he is being sought by the authorities in Northern Ireland.
The story came to light after the woman at the centre of the abuse allegations waved her anonymity in order to tell her story.
She is making public allegations that over a period of at least eight years, beginning in the late 1970s, she was abused by her father. She will feature in a special UTV programme at 8pm tonight.
She claims she can remember the alleged offences, including rape, from the time she was four.
In November of last year, 30 years after some of the alleged abuses and following a PSNI investigation, Liam Adams was to face 23 court charges - but he went missing.
In a statement Gerry Adams said he should make himself available to the authorities and that his alleged victim must get justice.
Saw that and found it a bit peculiar. The family of Adams brother were blaming Gerry and alluding that he knows where his brother is.
Just watched it on the website. Hope they get the **** but it seems a bit strange. Seems to be like a very desperate attempt by UTV to embarrass Gerry Adams.
The sensational "he knew about it for 20 years". ::) Don't think you could fault gerry's actions in any of that yet they seemed very concerned with trying to catch him out and blame him in some way.
Not just UTV, it was front page of the Irish News this morning. Smacks of a story they ran a few years ago when a Glen Rd lad died on the pitch - they couldn't wait to remind us about the sins of the father. Gutter press...
Quote from: Ulick on December 18, 2009, 11:11:07 PM
Not just UTV, it was front page of the Irish News this morning. Smacks of a story they ran a few years ago when a Glen Rd lad died on the pitch - they couldn't wait to remind us about the sins of the father. Gutter press...
In fairness the family must have instigated this on some way and obviously agreed to do the tv show.
Quote from: Minder on December 18, 2009, 11:16:19 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 18, 2009, 11:11:07 PM
Not just UTV, it was front page of the Irish News this morning. Smacks of a story they ran a few years ago when a Glen Rd lad died on the pitch - they couldn't wait to remind us about the sins of the father. Gutter press...
In fairness the family must have instigated this on some way and obviously agreed to do the tv show.
The girl was used minder, do you think UTV care about getting justice for her?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 18, 2009, 11:19:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 18, 2009, 11:16:19 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 18, 2009, 11:11:07 PM
Not just UTV, it was front page of the Irish News this morning. Smacks of a story they ran a few years ago when a Glen Rd lad died on the pitch - they couldn't wait to remind us about the sins of the father. Gutter press...
In fairness the family must have instigated this on some way and obviously agreed to do the tv show.
The girl was used minder, do you think UTV care about getting justice for her?
Of course they don't but every media outlet, be it news, current affairs programmes or newspapers are the same. The more emotive the subject the higher the ratings/sales.
This will grow and grow. I'm sure the sticky-infested Sunday World will be scouring the scum-filled kennels trying to get something on the 'bearded one'. However, this does have the potential, if he was in the 'know', to do serious damage - in a Bishop of Limerick scenario, to GA.
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 18, 2009, 11:42:15 PM
This will grow and grow. I'm sure the sticky-infested Sunday World will be scouring the scum-filled kennels trying to get something on the 'bearded one'. However, this does have the potential, if he was in the 'know', to do serious damage - in a Bishop of Limerick scenario, to GA.
Funny how they'll all go after Adams (who doesnt seem to have done anything wrong) when the RUC weren't too interested.
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 18, 2009, 11:42:15 PM
This will grow and grow. I'm sure the sticky-infested Sunday World will be scouring the scum-filled kennels trying to get something on the 'bearded one'. However, this does have the potential, if he was in the 'know', to do serious damage - in a Bishop of Limerick scenario, to GA.
What do mean "in the know"? Was Gerry there smacking the brothers back while he was raping untold numbers of children? Wise up...
Uliick and Minder may not have read the story in the paper this morning, but it was pretty clearly based on a statement released by Gerry Adams. Rather than blame the paper for publishing it, they might consider why he felt he needed to say what he said in the first place. The link with the Chicago case from 2002 is a bit of a stretch.
Quote from: Oldhacker on December 18, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Uliick and Minder may not have read the story in the paper this morning, but it was pretty clearly based on a statement released by Gerry Adams. Rather than blame the paper for publishing it, they might consider why he felt he needed to say what he said in the first place. The link with the Chicago case from 2002 is a bit of a stretch.
Who knew his niece was going public and knew people were going to line up to attack him, of course he's going to release a statement.
I stopped buying that rag since the "Chicago case from 2002", Oldhacker. Just read the front page in the shop today. Perhaps you'd like to fill us in?
Good man Gerry (from the Irish Times):
Adams's brother in abuse inquiry
GERRY MORIARTY, Northern Editor
Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams has urged his brother Liam Adams to hand himself over to the PSNI to answer allegations that he sexually abused his daughter.
The Sinn Fein president's niece Aine Tyrell waived her right to anonymity on UTV's Insight programme tonight to make the allegations of child sex abuse against her father Liam Adams, a former IRA prisoner.
Gerry Adams said he had already been in contact with the PNSI and if he knew he would inform the PSNI about the whereabouts of his brother Liam so that he could answer the allegations.
"I haven't had any contact with him," said the Sinn Féin president.
"I mean not only have I went to the PSNI — if I knew where he was and Liam knows this, Liam knows if I knew where he was that I would tell the PSNI," he added.
The PSNI today confirmed that warrants were issued for the arrest of Liam Adams to answer allegations of rape, indecent assault and gross indecency after he failed to attend a preliminary inquiry into the allegations at a Belfast court more than a year ago.
Ms Tyrell (36), who identified herself by her married name, alleged that she was subjected to sexual abuse from when she was about four in 1977 and that the abuse lasted for eight years. She also said that the Sinn Féin president knew about the allegations against Liam Adams for just over 20 years.
Her mother Sally Campbell said she was physically abused by her estranged husband Liam Adams but that she got some respite from this when he was jailed for IRA membership, not long after Aine's birth. Later on his release the alleged abuse against Aine began.
The programme reported that around 1987 Ms Tyrell and her mother Sally went to the police to make the allegations against her father.
According to the programme, her mother said the RUC seemed "more interested in recruiting her as an informer than dealing with Aine's abusing father".
Medical tests were taken and social services were also informed and documentary evidence of these tests and contacts are still on file, according to Insight .
The programme also reported that at the time because so few in the local nationalist community recognised the legitimacy of the RUC that "under pressure" Ms Tyrell didn't proceed with the case. The statements, however, are still on file and Ms Tyrell believes these can be used to prove her allegations against her father.
Ms Tyrell said at some meetings on the issue with the Sinn Féin president she felt they were "turning into Liam was the victim, you know, our Liam, yes, our Liam can't deal with what he did to you, that's why our Liam's sick in the head now, our Liam can't cope with life".
The Sinn Féin president said he accepted the truth of Ms Tyrell's allegations. "From the very beginning I believed Aine," he told Insight reporter Chris Moore.
"Now Aine was about 14 at the time, she was a wee kid, but she was always a very good wee girl and always, you know, I, I just couldn't imagine a child like her making up such a serious allegation."
"And although I didn't have you know the, the, the awful details of the, the wrong that was done to her, I think it was doubly done by Liam refusing, called her a liar, and denying emphatically that he had done any wrong," added Mr Adams.
"Aine in this case is the direct victim, but child abuse has a whole ripple of other victims. You know for me it's like, you know, a permanent bereavement," he said.
Mr Adams said on two occasions he tried but ultimately failed to create the circumstances where Liam Adams would come forward and face the allegations of his daughter.
PoG, he issued his statement before and not after the UTV programme was screened. Uliick has not explained why a party leader clarifying his position on a serious issue can be compared to what happened in Chicago.
Quote from: Oldhacker on December 19, 2009, 12:15:39 AM
PoG, he issued his statement before and not after the UTV programme was screened. Uliick has not explained why a party leader clarifying his position on a serious issue can be compared to what happened in Chicago.
I dont know what this chicago business is but he obviously knew the programme was going to be screened, he knew the papers would pick up on it before the programme and he got his statement out, can't blame him for that.
Quote from: Oldhacker on December 19, 2009, 12:15:39 AM
Uliick has not explained why a party leader clarifying his position on a serious issue can be compared to what happened in Chicago.
Actually I'm comparing it to what happened on the Glen Rd, not Chicago.
Jesus, talk about paranoia. How has this story been morphed here into an alleged attempt to smear Gerry Adams instead of the abuse of a child? I'd have thought we'd learned about priorities in this area lately.
Quote from: Hardy on December 19, 2009, 07:25:10 AM
Jesus, talk about paranoia. How has this story been morphed here into an alleged attempt to smear Gerry Adams instead of the abuse of a child? I'd have thought we'd learned about priorities in this area lately.
I don't think anyone here has their priorities wrong hardy, did you watch the programme?
One of the sensational headlines on it was "gerry adams knew for 20 years". Now, my first thought was that he hid it, covered it up etc. But if you watch on in the programme you find out he actually learned about it from the victim after she told the RUC and social services.
Now everyone I'm sure wants the **** caught and punished however UTV were clearly more interested in trying to trip adams up which I think is pathetic. (and you know I've no love for Sinn Fein!) The show wasn't about child abuse or catching a child abuser it was about what Gerry Adams done.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 19, 2009, 10:19:01 AM
Quote from: Hardy on December 19, 2009, 07:25:10 AM
Jesus, talk about paranoia. How has this story been morphed here into an alleged attempt to smear Gerry Adams instead of the abuse of a child? I'd have thought we'd learned about priorities in this area lately.
I don't think anyone here has their priorities wrong hardy, did you watch the programme?
One of the sensational headlines on it was "gerry adams knew for 20 years". Now, my first thought was that he hid it, covered it up etc. But if you watch on in the programme you find out he actually learned about it from the victim after she told the RUC and social services.
Now everyone I'm sure wants the **** caught and punished however UTV were clearly more interested in trying to trip adams up which I think is pathetic. (and you know I've no love for Sinn Fein!) The show wasn't about child abuse or catching a child abuser it was about what Gerry Adams done.
Fair enough.
Wonder if Gerry would approve of the Real IRA, unreal ira, we havent gone away you know ira, etc, kneecappiing his brother?
Quote from: dillinger on December 20, 2009, 12:07:17 AM
Wonder if Gerry would approve of the Real IRA, unreal ira, we havent gone away you know ira, etc, kneecappiing his brother?
::)
Why do you wonder? Surely you know the answer.
[/quote]
Cant say i do. Seems most posters are condeming the news reports and not the alleged attack!
Quote from: dillinger on December 20, 2009, 12:34:19 AM
Why do you wonder? Surely you know the answer.
Cant say i do. Seems most posters are condeming the news reports and not the alleged attack!
[/quote]
Do you think it's necessary for people to condemn the sexual abuse of a child?
Do you think it's necessary for people to condemn the sexual abuse of a child?
[/quote
Why do you ask that? Is it not more important to condemn the alleged abuser. Or do you think the same way as many on this subject to condemn the news reports about it as a smear on gerry.
Quote from: dillinger on December 20, 2009, 12:43:20 AM
Do you think it's necessary for people to condemn the sexual abuse of a child?
[/quote
Why do you ask that? Is it not more important to condemn the alleged abuser. Or do you think the same way as many on this subject to condemn the news reports about it as a smear on gerry.
Well you'll see my posts on the subject. I would have thought the condemnation of the abuser would go without saying! I asked my question because you made your little snide remark.
Are you just in from a night on the bear or what?
The girl was used minder, do you think UTV care about getting justice for her?
[/quote
As i said, condemn the utv etc]
Quote from: dillinger on December 20, 2009, 12:50:10 AM
The girl was used minder, do you think UTV care about getting justice for her?
[/quote
As i said, condemn the utv etc]
and you'll see I also called liam adams a **** and that everyone would want him caught or punished. Nice selective quoting btw. ::)
Who was she waving this anonymity at?
Looks like Fr Aiden media 'star' Troy doesn't come out of this too well. Family reckoned he wanted to sort it out between the father and family and keep police out of it. If there was a two page feature in it for Troy I'm sure he would have done a bit bettter :-\
I make that 3 paedophiles who were Provos who have been exposed in the last month or so
Quote from: longrunsthefox on December 20, 2009, 11:05:39 AM
Looks like Fr Aiden media 'star' Troy doesn't come out of this too well. Family reckoned he wanted to sort it out between the father and family and keep police out of it. If there was a two page feature in it for Troy I'm sure he would have done a bit bettter :-\
Yea, seems to enjoy the limelight alright. Even when he was shipped off to France he still managed to get his head onto local TV here. He's another D'Arcy
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2009, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on December 20, 2009, 11:05:39 AM
Looks like Fr Aiden media 'star' Troy doesn't come out of this too well. Family reckoned he wanted to sort it out between the father and family and keep police out of it. If there was a two page feature in it for Troy I'm sure he would have done a bit bettter :-\
Yea, seems to enjoy the limelight alright. Even when he was shipped off to France he still managed to get his head onto local TV here. He's another D'Arcy
He has also just released a book.
Quote from: Gaffer on December 20, 2009, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on December 20, 2009, 11:05:39 AM
Looks like Fr Aiden media 'star' Troy doesn't come out of this too well. Family reckoned he wanted to sort it out between the father and family and keep police out of it. If there was a two page feature in it for Troy I'm sure he would have done a bit bettter :-\
Yea, seems to enjoy the limelight alright. Even when he was shipped off to France he still managed to get his head onto local TV here. He's another D'Arcy
There was a two page feature of him in the Irish News (Vatican Times) with pics of him in front of the Eiffel Tower and on the Paris underground. Yeah-his two minutes of fame was addictive.
Gerry Adams on RTE news at one (headline news interview) is telling the emotive story of the history of abuse in his family, starting with his father.
what's he saying? just reading about it on RTE, jeeze.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 01:26:31 PM
what's he saying? just reading about it on RTE, jeeze.
Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams has revealed that his late-father subjected family members to emotional, physical and sexual abuse.
In an interview with RTÉ News, Mr Adams spoke about the issues and also called on his brother, Liam, to give himself up to the authorities.
Liam Adams is wanted by the PSNI so that he can answer charges of abuse against his daughter over a period of several years during her childhood.
AdvertisementGerry Adams urged his brother to go to the PSNI for the sake of his niece Áine, Liam's daughter.
Mr Adams explained that he only discovered when he was 50 years old that his father, Gerry Adams Senior, had also abused some of his own children.
The Sinn Féin president said his father was in denial for many years about his actions and he eventually died a lonely old man.
Mr Adams said that he had a personal dilema when his father's coffin was covered in the Tricolour, as he said he felt his father had 'besmerched' the flag.
He said the police was not involved because his father's victims did not want to contact them.
Mr Adams said all the abuse was 'historic' and no children were at risk when the abuse was eventually revealed.
Regarding Liam Adams, Gerry Adams said that there is no evidence that his brother has abused any children other than his own daughter.
Mr Adams said that he had tried to have his brother 'kicked out' of Sinn Féin.
He said that perhaps he should have taken more personal initiative in dealing with the issues but as all the victims were adults now, it was for them to decide to take legal action.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 01:26:31 PM
what's he saying? just reading about it on RTE, jeeze.
It will be available for listening from the RTE web site. Worth listening to - a harrowing interview.
Quote from: Main Street on December 20, 2009, 01:35:20 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 01:26:31 PM
what's he saying? just reading about it on RTE, jeeze.
It will be available for listening from the RTE web site. Worth listening to - a harrowing interview.
Cant get that, not in Ireland. Maybe it'll go up on youtube.
holy jesus boys, Adams just released this statement, doesn't say if he was abused himself:
*Nollaig 20 2009*
* *
*Statement by Gerry Adams on behalf of the Adams Family.*
I am issuing this statement on my own behalf and on behalf of my brothers
and sisters.
In the late 1990's we discovered that our father had been sexually,
emotionally and physically abusing members of our family.
This abuse happened over many years. This discovery and the abuse which
preceded it have had a devastating impact on our entire family.
We are still struggling to come to terms with what happened. We live with
the consequences every single day. We have been dealing with this with the
support of a number of professionals who have the expertise to deal with
these matters. We thank them for their help.
Abuse of any kind is horrendous but sexual abuse particularly of a child, is
indescribably wounding and heartbreaking. Our family have debated for
some time whether we should publicise our father's abusive behaviour.
We do so now in the hope that in time, this will assist the victims and
survivors to come to terms with what happened and help them to move on from
these dreadful events.
All citizens need to be educated and children need to be listened to,
empowered and protected.
Many people in other families have suffered from abuse. Our family knows how
deeply hurtful and traumatic that can be. No one should have to deal with
abuse or its consequences in isolation.
Victims of abuse in our family are still, years later, recovering from the
trauma inflicted on us.
Our prayer is that everyone will be healed. Most of us have grown in
strength with the help of other family members, partners and friends. We
know this will continue. Our family are united. We believe that there is a
way out of this awfulness.
We hope this knowledge can be of some help to other families who are in the
same situation. Anyone effected by these issues should contact The
Samaritans or any appropriate agency.
We would ask the media to give us some privacy, particularly over this
Christmas period.
Gerry Adams
CRIOCH.
shocking but very brave of them to publicise as there will be no doubt nasty people queuing up to put the boot in.
He said he learned of it when he was 50 so that suggests he wasn't abused himself. The more people coming forward and making it public whether it will be the adams' or victims of the priests etc it will encourage others to do the same. It's just shocking how widespread it seems to have been.
Adams might not have known about his brother but he knew about other paedophiles and rapists in Sinn Fein and the IRA. On at least one occasion he knew that the perpetrator of such abuse had been shipped off to Donegal (where he still remains) so that he couldn't face prosecution or even charges. This happened under orders from the local OC. Before anyone says Gerry knew nothing, I happen to know for a fact he knew the full facts on that occasion.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on December 20, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Adams might not have known about his brother but he knew about other paedophiles and rapists in Sinn Fein and the IRA. On at least one occasion he knew that the perpetrator of such abuse had been shipped off to Donegal (where he still remains) so that he couldn't face prosecution or even charges. This happened under orders from the local OC. Before anyone says Gerry knew nothing, I happen to know for a fact he knew the full facts on that occasion.
Why cant he be arrested by the guards and handed over?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on December 20, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Adams might not have known about his brother but he knew about other paedophiles and rapists in Sinn Fein and the IRA. On at least one occasion he knew that the perpetrator of such abuse had been shipped off to Donegal (where he still remains) so that he couldn't face prosecution or even charges. This happened under orders from the local OC. Before anyone says Gerry knew nothing, I happen to know for a fact he knew the full facts on that occasion.
Why cant he be arrested by the guards and handed over?
Good question and I don't have an answer for it
Quote from: orangeman on December 20, 2009, 01:28:50 PM
Mr Adams said that he had tried to have his brother 'kicked out' of Sinn Féin.
He said that perhaps he should have taken more personal initiative in dealing with the issues but as all the victims were adults now, it was for them to decide to take legal action.
Never mind the poor girl (and others?) who were raped and sexually assaulted etc in this matter, you gotta feel sorry for the real victim in all this - aye, that's right, Gerry Adams himself.
You see, it turns out that not only is he the brother of a sc**bag, but he's the son of a sc**bag, too. Worse still, there's not anything he could have done, no nothing whatever.
For not only did he have no influence over his brother, but he had no influence over Sinn Fein either, eg to get his brother expelled from the party, since he (Gerry) was merely President of that organisation.
And, of course, he could never trust the RUC, nor could he even approach any members of any "community organisation" which might have been addressing such "anti-social behaviour" as child abuse, since there was no such organisation in existence and even if there had, Gerry wouldn't even have known anyone in it, never mind have had any sort of influence over them.
Of course, there were cases where publicly-spirited individuals would occasionally become so outraged by anti-social elements
in their area that they could not prevent themselves from spontaneously picking up guns, going to the flat of a 79 year old "paedophile" in the New Lodge and shooting him in both ankles and knees, so that he'd never be able to walk again, never mind abuse children.
But no doubt Gerry had no idea who was behind that, since it occurred in May 1998, therefore cannot have been eg the IRA, since they were on "ceasefire" at the time. Besides, as we all know, Gerry was never in the IRA. Unlike his father, Gerry. And his brother, Liam. And his uncle, Dominic. And half the other male member of the Adams (and Hannaway) families in Belfast at one time or another...
Indeed even if he had somehow had some sort of means of contacting these defenders of public morality administered their unique brand of "restorative justice", this would still have presented poor Gerry with a terrible dilemma. For on the one hand, the political party over which he had no real influence (SF) refused to condemn the gunmen. On the other, you couldn't even trust them to go the right flat, so that an entirely innocent man* might end up getting maimed and terrorised for what remained of his years on this earth....
Worst of all, there might even be people out there who conclude - entirely unfairly, of course - that if you are suspected in hardline Republican areas of being involved in what entirely unelected, faceless men deem to be "anti-social behaviour" like child rape, then you risk getting kneecapped (or worse) unless, of course, your surname is Adams...
P.S. POG stated in an eartlier post that "nasty" people will use this as an excuse "to sink the boot in" on Gerry Adams. to which I would reply: "Too f**king right!"
After all, it's not as if he can send round a "punishment squad" from an organisation of which he was never a member, to deal with us anymore... ::)
* - To save people the bother of Googling, I refer to John Brown:
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/05/world/no-end-to-violence-in-ulster-each-side-now-kills-its-own.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmhansrd/vo980723/debtext/80723-09.htm )
Yeah, nasty people.
Btw eg would you mind telling me exactly what Gerry Adams should have done, about his brother and his father. Bear in mind the wishes of their victims.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on December 20, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Adams might not have known about his brother but he knew about other paedophiles and rapists in Sinn Fein and the IRA. On at least one occasion he knew that the perpetrator of such abuse had been shipped off to Donegal (where he still remains) so that he couldn't face prosecution or even charges. This happened under orders from the local OC. Before anyone says Gerry knew nothing, I happen to know for a fact he knew the full facts on that occasion.
Agenda? ::)
You make alot of allegations in one post, care to expand on your sources or is it just a good reason to get a dig/kick in when a man is down.
God forbid you ever had to sufffer what that family suffered.
Personally I think Adams is being very open here and I hope thay catch the cnut Liam and try him for what he has done.
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 20, 2009, 05:38:55 PM
Quote from: orangeman on December 20, 2009, 01:28:50 PM
Mr Adams said that he had tried to have his brother 'kicked out' of Sinn Féin.
He said that perhaps he should have taken more personal initiative in dealing with the issues but as all the victims were adults now, it was for them to decide to take legal action.
Never mind the poor girl (and others?) who were raped and sexually assaulted etc in this matter, you gotta feel sorry for the real victim in all this - aye, that's right, Gerry Adams himself.
You see, it turns out that not only is he the brother of a sc**bag, but he's the son of a sc**bag, too. Worse still, there's not anything he could have done, no nothing whatever.
For not only did he have no influence over his brother, but he had no influence over Sinn Fein either, eg to get his brother expelled from the party, since he (Gerry) was merely President of that organisation.
And, of course, he could never trust the RUC, nor could he even approach any members of any "community organisation" which might have been addressing such "anti-social behaviour" as child abuse, since there was no such organisation in existence and even if there had, Gerry wouldn't even have known anyone in it, never mind have had any sort of influence over them.
Of course, there were cases where publicly-spirited individuals would occasionally become so outraged by anti-social elements
in their area that they could not prevent themselves from spontaneously picking up guns, going to the flat of a 79 year old "paedophile" in the New Lodge and shooting him in both ankles and knees, so that he'd never be able to walk again, never mind abuse children.
But no doubt Gerry had no idea who was behind that, since it occurred in May 1998, therefore cannot have been eg the IRA, since they were on "ceasefire" at the time. Besides, as we all know, Gerry was never in the IRA. Unlike his father, Gerry. And his brother, Liam. And his uncle, Dominic. And half the other male member of the Adams (and Hannaway) families in Belfast at one time or another...
Indeed even if he had somehow had some sort of means of contacting these defenders of public morality administered their unique brand of "restorative justice", this would still have presented poor Gerry with a terrible dilemma. For on the one hand, the political party over which he had no real influence (SF) refused to condemn the gunmen. On the other, you couldn't even trust them to go the right flat, so that an entirely innocent man* might end up getting maimed and terrorised for what remained of his years on this earth....
Worst of all, there might even be people out there who conclude - entirely unfairly, of course - that if you are suspected in hardline Republican areas of being involved in what entirely unelected, faceless men deem to be "anti-social behaviour" like child rape, then you risk getting kneecapped (or worse) unless, of course, your surname is Adams...
P.S. POG stated in an eartlier post that "nasty" people will use this as an excuse "to sink the boot in" on Gerry Adams. to which I would reply: "Too f**king right!"
After all, it's not as if he can send round a "punishment squad" from an organisation of which he was never a member, to deal with us anymore... ::)
* - To save people the bother of Googling, I refer to John Brown:
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/05/world/no-end-to-violence-in-ulster-each-side-now-kills-its-own.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmhansrd/vo980723/debtext/80723-09.htm )
Adams cannot be blamed for the sins of is father and brother, what he can be blamed for is not having the animals locked up when he knew what the were up to, if that was one of my brothers i would shop the fcuker so fast his head would spin.
fair play to Adams for coming forward however shame on him for not having the balls to get that cnut of a brother off the streets, he shold have been in a body bag or at least jail for his raping of a child.
As for his da, I am sure he taught his deviant son well, I hope he rots in hell and the thought of a cnut like that having the Tri Colour draped over his coffin gives me chills.
Stew adams couldn't get them locked up - adams' fathers victims didn't want to report it and his niece had reported it to the police but then didn't want to pursue it. Adams couldn't do anything if the victims didnt want to go down that road.
Listening to that interview, it's pretty clear everybody in that family was a victim of the father's abuse. In Gerry Adam's case, even if he was not actually sexually abused by his father, his account was of a prolonged pattern of mental/emotional, physical and sexual abuse in the family as instigated by the Father.
His duty is to support the other abused members in what they want to do. His chilling account of the abuse is so evocative of other family abuse scenarios.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 07:21:31 PM
Btw he's only started making statements now as his niece has gone public, use your brain man!
Dont you mean he only started making statements to cover his own arse? He has known about his brother and his father for years, yet only came out with a public statement when it was about to hit the headlines. Typical politican, trying to cover his own arse. If he had any interest in the welfare of his niece or anyone else who was abused for that matter he would have gone to the police a long time ago, but dont let the truth get in the way of your argment pog.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on December 20, 2009, 07:42:08 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 07:21:31 PM
Btw he's only started making statements now as his niece has gone public, use your brain man!
Dont you mean he only started making statements to cover his own arse? He has known about his brother and his father for years, yet only came out with a public statement when it was about to hit the headlines. Typical politican, trying to cover his own arse. If he had any interest in the welfare of his niece or anyone else who was abused for that matter he would have gone to the police a long time ago, but dont let the truth get in the way of your argment pog.
Don't let the truth get in the way of an argument? Why don't you look at the facts, do you even know what they are?
His niece and her mother went to the police, made statements etc and as the police were more interested in Liam's republican activities they deceided not to proceed.
They then told Gerry.
WHY THE f**k WOULD GERRY THEN GO TO THE POLICE? To tell them something they already knew? and when his niece didn't want to pursue the case. Now that his niece has decided to go down that route he has gone to the police and made a statement and has said he will appear as a witness for the prosecution. What do you want the man to do?
It seems that UTV's sensational headlines like "gerry adams knew for 20 years" have done the trick when people like you are mouthing when you clearly haven't bothered to watch the interviews or read the reports on the subject.
Why would Gerry Adams go to the police about his father when his father's victims did not want that? Why would he cause that hurt to his brothers and sisters when it's something they didn't want? If he did go to the police it would mean nothing without the victim's support anyway.
and of course he came out with statements when it hit the headlines, maybe you'd want him to start making statements when he first learned about his brother and his father? I'm sure that's something the victims would have wanted. ::)
btw you've a lot of interest in the welfare of his niece or the other victims when you're making jokes about them.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 08:01:49 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on December 20, 2009, 07:42:08 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 07:21:31 PM
Btw he's only started making statements now as his niece has gone public, use your brain man!
Dont you mean he only started making statements to cover his own arse? He has known about his brother and his father for years, yet only came out with a public statement when it was about to hit the headlines. Typical politican, trying to cover his own arse. If he had any interest in the welfare of his niece or anyone else who was abused for that matter he would have gone to the police a long time ago, but dont let the truth get in the way of your argment pog.
Don't let the truth get in the way of an argument? Why don't you look at the facts, do you even know what they are?
His niece and her mother went to the police, made statements etc and as the police were more interested in Liam's republican activities they deceided not to proceed.
They then told Gerry.
WHY THE f**k WOULD GERRY THEN GO TO THE POLICE? To tell them something they already knew? and when his niece didn't want to pursue the case. Now that his niece has decided to go down that route he has gone to the police and made a statement and has said he will appear as a witness for the prosecution. What do you want the man to do?
It seems that UTV's sensational headlines like "gerry adams knew for 20 years" have done the trick when people like you are mouthing when you clearly haven't bothered to watch the interviews or read the reports on the subject.
Why would Gerry Adams go to the police about his father when his father's victims did not want that? Why would he cause that hurt to his brothers and sisters when it's something they didn't want? If he did go to the police it would mean nothing without the victim's support anyway.
and of course he came out with statements when it hit the headlines, maybe you'd want him to start making statements when he first learned about his brother and his father? I'm sure that's something the victims would have wanted. ::)
btw you've a lot of interest in the welfare of his niece or the other victims when you're making jokes about them.
In fact the RUC only wanted to talk about recruiting her as a agent and had little interest in child abuse.
Exactly Myles, and where's the criticism of them from EG or from Tervor Hill etc?
Seems Gerry's more open to criticism because he didn't go against the wishes of the victims or didn't start releasing statements.
I know if I was sexually abused and told my uncle or brother in confidence the first thing I'd want them to do is to release a statement to the media ::)
Then I'd want him to break my confidence and go to the police and try and force me in to something I didn't want to do. That would be a big help I'm sure.
pog why are you jumping to Adams defence? Do you know something that the rest of us don't?
Adams and his cohorts in Sinn Fein were very quick to have people punished for anti social behaviour, including child molesting, yet he has turned a blind eye to the abuse of his own niece. It seems to me that he has been acting in the interests of his brother for the last 20 years and is only now appearing to help his niece because she has gone public.
It was the same when one of Martin Meehans family was discovered to be an informer. Instead of giving the informer their usual treatment he was allowed to go on his merry way, because of his family connections. With Sinn Fein it appears to be don't do as we do, do as we say and they are not exactly moral guardians now are they?
The police and social services have serious questions to answer as well, but why was this kept quiet until now by everyone concerned. Where the police protecting someone?
Quote from: Trevor Hill on December 20, 2009, 09:14:33 PM
pog why are you jumping to Adams defence? Do you know something that the rest of us don't?
Adams and his cohorts in Sinn Fein were very quick to have people punished for anti social behaviour, including child molesting, yet he has turned a blind eye to the abuse of his own niece. It seems to me that he has been acting in the interests of his brother for the last 20 years and is only now appearing to help his niece because she has gone public.
It was the same when one of Martin Meehans family was discovered to be an informer. Instead of giving the informer their usual treatment he was allowed to go on his merry way, because of his family connections. With Sinn Fein it appears to be don't do as we do, do as we say and they are not exactly moral guardians now are they?
The police and social services have serious questions to answer as well, but why was this kept quiet until now by everyone concerned. Where the police protecting someone?
I'm defending him because he's done nothing wrong and people spouting bullshit is a pet hate of mine.
YOu haven't answered any of the points in my last post. He didnt turn a blind eye to the abuse, did you watch the programme, if you did you'd see what he done, in line with his niece's wishes.
It was kept quiet until now like every other incident of child abuse we've been hearing about for months - the victim has only now made herself public.
Unbelievable how even this thread is turning into an attack on Gerry Adams, whereas the alleged offender is hardly being mentioned at all. Liam Adams is the culprit here, allegedly. Gerry Adams is not.
Exactly Nrico, reading the whole thread is pissing me off. I have no great thoughts here nor there on Gerry Adams in general but the fact is that show was supposed to be about exposing a bloody paedophile and it turned into a circus of trying to show up Gerry Adams. I dont see what he did wrong - hes only human and from what i can see did all he could in the circumstances he found himself - who are we to be judge and jury as to what he did wrong? And what about the rest of his family? Why is he the only one in his family to be held accountable? None of them should be in my opinion but because of his profile hes hung drawn and quartered.
Angry that even commented on this thread cos now i turned as bad and talking about adams when it shouldnt be about him!!!!
People on here don't seem to grasp the difficulty catholics had in going to the RUC in the 70's-90's either. I know of someone who lost a family member in a tragic accident 20 odd years ago and all the RUC were interested in at the time was trying to recruit some touts.
I can't believe some of the posts here criticising Gerry Adams and I'm no apologist for him. How people can berate him in this case for what he has done defies belief. The man is in a terrible position, he could not have betrayed the wishes of his family members who were abused, he has said he wanted to expose his father prior to his funeral but they didn't want to, as far as I'm concerned that wish had to be respected.
As for this politician covering his ass sh*t, how would you have felt if he stonewalled this and recused go comment, he would be slaughtered twice as much as he is now. Go out and go through what his family are going through then you will be in a position to pass your comments.
The journalist Chris Jones (UTV program?) was interviewed by Pat Kenny this morning, still going on about his opinions on Gerry Adams's perceived complicity. Adams rang up the show some 20 minutes later and deconstructed the main points made by Jones. He said he wasn't going to do anymore interviews on this matter but just had to reply to what was being presented as fact on RTE.
everyone who's attacking Gerry Adams on this thread really needs to get their facts straight. he's done nothing wrong. his brother and father were wife beaters and paedos, and both his victims wanted to keep it on the down low, until now. the man's in a public position and just because until now he's never NEEDED to release a statement he's being attacked and saying he's trying to cover his own back, bullshit.
I'm not even a fan of sinn fein, or gerry himself, but all he's done so far as i can see is the same as thousands of other people in ireland his own genoration, it's a well known fact that most husbands were abusive to their wives and children, mostly physical, but sometimes a bit further, sure how could they not be? rape WITHIN marrages was only made illegal in '91.
Quote from: takeyourownpath on December 21, 2009, 10:54:42 AMit's a well known fact that most husbands were abusive to their wives and children, mostly physical, but sometimes a bit further
What? Say that again.
There should be arrests, charges and then jail sentences here because when the mother and the niece went to the RUC they were dismissed. The officers (thugs of the time) that took that report and did nothing should be charged and this is what Chris Jones should have been concentrating on. It might sound easy enough to go to the PSNI today but it took a little more bottle for a girl and her mother from the Catholic side to walk into an RUC station back then and expect them to help you. As Gerry said on Pat Kenny just a few moments ago, the tabloids were suggesting there was a smoking gun and oh what a story it would have made to sell rag papers?
The facts are that Gerry Adams acted correctly throughout all of this to the extent that he even disassociated his brother from Sinn Fein when he was told of him intending to run in an election. The focus should be on the RUC and how they acted (which is not hard to guess) whether the girl wanted to go ahead with a prosecution or not.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 08:14:15 PM
Exactly Myles, and where's the criticism of them from EG or from Tervor Hill etc?
Can't/Don't speak for TH, but if the RUC were unconcerned to investigate the victim's complaint properly, then I neither condone that, nor defend it.
But there are plenty of other threads about the RUC/PSNI, including one started a week or so ago ("Roll of Honour etc").
This thread is about two sc**bag members of the Adams family and Gerry's reactions/conduct - try to stay on topic.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Btw eg would you mind telling me exactly what Gerry Adams should have done, about his brother and his father.
Since Adams knew about his brother's crimes since back in the day when the IRA took upon itself to "police" Republican districts, he might have
arranged through his contacts within armed Repubblicanism for a "punishment squad" [
sic] along to kneecap him - the standard sentence (or worse?) for such anti-social activities, I believe.
Of course, I say "might", only that the surname of the (alleged) rapist in question is "Adams".
Now, having answered your question, would you like to tell me exactly what GA
would have done, if his neice had been abused all those years ago by someone with a different surname? ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Bear in mind the wishes of their victims.
Aye, tell that to the "victims" of John Brown (see my post #47).
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on December 21, 2009, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on December 21, 2009, 10:56:06 AM
Some distasteful comments alright. EG you are particularly pathetic.
EG makes a late bid for the most one-eyed post of 2009.
I actually think ardmachaabu beat me to it, with his post # 46. Or are only posters from one "side of the house" allowed to be one-eyed [
sic]?
Anyhow, I may use more perjorative teminology than aa, but the fact is, his point and mine are essentially the same i.e. alleged rapists and paedophiles etc in Republican areas were regularly shot and exiled etc at the very same time as Liam Adams (and Gerry Senior?) was up to his vile activities.
But so long as you were sufficiently "well connected", then you might hope to get away with it, or even be protected. And quite frankly, I can't imagine any better connection than the surname "Adams"... :o
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2009, 02:44:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 02:39:33 PM
try to stay on topic.
;D
What's amusing you? The title of this thread is "Adams' brother sought over alleged child abuse". all my posts have been strictly on the topic of Gerry Adams and his conduct with regard to his brother etc. ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on December 21, 2009, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on December 21, 2009, 10:56:06 AM
Some distasteful comments alright. EG you are particularly pathetic.
EG makes a late bid for the most one-eyed post of 2009.
I actually think ardmachaabu beat me to it, with his post # 46. Or are only posters from one "side of the house" allowed to be one-eyed [sic]?
Anyhow, I may use more perjorative teminology than aa, but the fact is, his point and mine are essentially the same i.e. alleged rapists and paedophiles etc in Republican areas were regularly shot and exiled etc at the very same time as Liam Adams (and Gerry Senior?) was up to his vile activities.
But so long as you were sufficiently "well connected", then you might hope to get away with it, or even be protected. And quite frankly, I can't imagine any better connection than the surname "Adams"... :o
Leave wee Davy out of this. Respected broadcaster now. ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2009, 02:44:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 02:39:33 PM
try to stay on topic.
;D
What's amusing you? The title of this thread is "Adams' brother sought over alleged child abuse". all my posts have been strictly on the topic of Gerry Adams and his conduct with regard to his brother etc. ::)
You know little about the abuse and know little about the conduct of Gerry Adams, yet you surmise and self righteously pontificate like the good little ultra reactionary you are.
Predictable repetitive agenda but above all, so utterly ignorant of abuse within families.
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Btw eg would you mind telling me exactly what Gerry Adams should have done, about his brother and his father.
Since Adams knew about his brother's crimes since back in the day when the IRA took upon itself to "police" Republican districts, he might have arranged through his contacts within armed Repubblicanism for a "punishment squad" [sic] along to kneecap him - the standard sentence (or worse?) for such anti-social activities, I believe.
Of course, I say "might", only that the surname of the (alleged) rapist in question is "Adams".
Now, having answered your question, would you like to tell me exactly what GA would have done, if his neice had been abused all those years ago by someone with a different surname? ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Bear in mind the wishes of their victims.
Aye, tell that to the "victims" of John Brown (see my post #47).
So after your little essay the only thing you can criticise Adams on is the fact that he
didn't arrange a punishment beating
EG is caught up in the tabloidesque "Let's Make Adams The Story" approach to this issue and quite clearly doesn't give a flying feck about any of the victims in this case.
QuoteI wouldn't say that I handled this perfectly. Of course I wouldn't
Quote from Gerry Adams.
I would maybe be one of the furthest away from being an apologist for Gerry Adams - and while EGs questions are in a sense, valid enough (I dont see anyone outside of a family member getting away with abusing his neice) - its a different kinda of scenario in a way. Blood is ultimately thicker than water - and what applies to others and may appear as a double standard is understandably not applied here. Whether that is right or wrong is irrelevant at this stage.
Fair play to Gerry Adams for how he is dealing with this - by trying not to deal with it - as it is not about him. It is about his neice.
Normally for this type of 'exposé' involving a political figure there would be an injunction or something to stop the show going ahead followed by threats and denials and of course cirling of the wagons.
I'm no fan believe me, but credit where it's due, he came out with a very revealing and personal statement on his family. That's not easy for anyone but especially public figures such as Bishops/Politicians/Well respected families etc.
Don't know what the story about the brother is but surely anyone can see the difficulty Adams might have had calling in the RUC! I think Adams is breaking new ground with his honest statement.
Gerry Adams of 20 years ago and the circumstances of 20 years ago are too far removed what is perceived as normality to draw any conclusions on what was the best course of action. Not every tout got a bullet, not eveyone mixing in the wrong circles got kneecapped. You cannot judge what did or did not happen. Unless you were in the middle of the issue with a full understanding of what was going on could you even attempt to comprehend what was going through anyones mind. Perhaps there was a private family reason for nothing more happening than did happen. That is the business of the Adams family and should be left at that. We will never know what happened in a meeting up the Whiterock or anywhere else for that matter relating to this. Adams is dealing with a hugely difficult scenario as best as he can and I don't think it is something that keyboard warriors and gutter press hacks should have any input into. Family matters are family matters and should be kept at that.
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2009, 10:53:37 AM
The journalist Chris Jones (UTV program?) was interviewed by Pat Kenny this morning, still going on about his opinions on Gerry Adams's perceived complicity. Adams rang up the show some 20 minutes later and deconstructed the main points made by Jones. He said he wasn't going to do anymore interviews on this matter but just had to reply to what was being presented as fact on RTE.
Is the journalist not Chris Moore?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Btw eg would you mind telling me exactly what Gerry Adams should have done, about his brother and his father.
Since Adams knew about his brother's crimes since back in the day when the IRA took upon itself to "police" Republican districts, he might have arranged through his contacts within armed Repubblicanism for a "punishment squad" [sic] along to kneecap him - the standard sentence (or worse?) for such anti-social activities, I believe.
Of course, I say "might", only that the surname of the (alleged) rapist in question is "Adams".
Now, having answered your question, would you like to tell me exactly what GA would have done, if his neice had been abused all those years ago by someone with a different surname? ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Bear in mind the wishes of their victims.
Aye, tell that to the "victims" of John Brown (see my post #47).
So after your little essay the only thing you can criticise Adams on is the fact that he didn't arrange a punishment beating
:D :D :D :D
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Btw eg would you mind telling me exactly what Gerry Adams should have done, about his brother and his father.
Since Adams knew about his brother's crimes since back in the day when the IRA took upon itself to "police" Republican districts, he might have arranged through his contacts within armed Repubblicanism for a "punishment squad" [sic] along to kneecap him - the standard sentence (or worse?) for such anti-social activities, I believe.
Of course, I say "might", only that the surname of the (alleged) rapist in question is "Adams".
Now, having answered your question, would you like to tell me exactly what GA would have done, if his neice had been abused all those years ago by someone with a different surname? ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Bear in mind the wishes of their victims.
Aye, tell that to the "victims" of John Brown (see my post #47).
So after your little essay the only thing you can criticise Adams on is the fact that he didn't arrange a punishment beating
Liam Adams worked at Clonard youth club for 5 years. Gerry Adams says that he approached the club authorities and made them aware of the allegations against his brother. Brendan Dineen of clonard youth club says the club have reviewed all their documentation and can find no record of the allegations against Liam Adams.
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2009, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2009, 02:44:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 02:39:33 PM
try to stay on topic.
;D
What's amusing you? The title of this thread is "Adams' brother sought over alleged child abuse". all my posts have been strictly on the topic of Gerry Adams and his conduct with regard to his brother etc. ::)
You know little about the abuse and know little about the conduct of Gerry Adams, yet you surmise and self righteously pontificate like the good little ultra reactionary you are.
Predictable repetitive agenda but above all, so utterly ignorant of abuse within families.
I know as much about the abuse as any of the other posters on this thread - but somehow I'm not "allowed" to comment, since I fail to conform to the usual take on such issues by posters on this forum?
Rather than dishing out personal insults, why don't you address the points which I (and one or two others) have made?
Adams' brother employers hit out
An arrest warrant has been issued for Liam Adams
A community project which employed Gerry Adams' brother has criticised the authorities for not telling them about sexual abuse allegations against him.
Liam Adams worked for the Beechmount Community Project as a youth development officer from 2004 to 2006.
He faces allegations that he abused his daughter when she was a child. Beechmount Community Project said he had been cleared to work with children and that the police and social services had "serious questions" to answer.
A warrant is outstanding for Liam Adams' arrest, to face allegations that he sexually abused Aine Tyrell when she was a young child.
Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams has called for him to hand over himself to the authorities.
It has emerged that Liam Adams worked with children in a number of roles for almost 20 years after his daughter and her mother reported him to the police in 1987.
A spokesperson for the Beechmount Community Project, for which Liam Adams worked between November 2004 and May 2006, said: "We have never received any complaint from any child, young person or their parent, or staff member, with respect to Liam Adams and his period of employment here within our project.
"Nevertheless, we feel that serious lapses by both the Social Services and the police have inexcusably put children and young people within our project at risk."
Liam Adams was also employed as a part-time youth worker at Clonard Youth Centre in west Belfast between 1998 and 2003.
Clearance
The Sinn Fein president has said he told staff there about the allegations against his brother.
"When I discovered in the Belfast situation that he was working in a youth facility I went to those who had responsibility for that facility and told them of the allegation," Mr Adams said.
"He also had RUC or PSNI clearance to work in those facilities."
However, Clonard Youth Centre has issued a statement, making clear it was unaware of any allegations against Liam Adams when he worked there.
Spokesperson Brendan Dineen said the centre had reviewed all its documentation "and there is no record whatsoever regarding concerns about Mr Liam Adams during his time of employment at Clonard Youth Centre".
"If we had been aware of allegations that have recently come to light, he would not have been employed at the centre," he continued.
"There have been very stringent policies and procedures in place since the establishment of the club with no incidents of wrongdoing reported."
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Btw eg would you mind telling me exactly what Gerry Adams should have done, about his brother and his father.
Since Adams knew about his brother's crimes since back in the day when the IRA took upon itself to "police" Republican districts, he might have arranged through his contacts within armed Repubblicanism for a "punishment squad" [sic] along to kneecap him - the standard sentence (or worse?) for such anti-social activities, I believe.
Of course, I say "might", only that the surname of the (alleged) rapist in question is "Adams".
Now, having answered your question, would you like to tell me exactly what GA would have done, if his neice had been abused all those years ago by someone with a different surname? ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 20, 2009, 05:44:24 PM
Bear in mind the wishes of their victims.
Aye, tell that to the "victims" of John Brown (see my post #47).
So after your little essay the only thing you can criticise Adams on is the fact that he didn't arrange a punishment beating
No. If you actually cared to read what I posted, you'd see that I argued not that Adams
should have arranged a "punishment beating" (nice term for what most decent people would call a brutal maiming, btw) - activity which I roundly deplore in any/all circumstances.
Rather, my point was that on past form he
might have done so. However, I believe that the only reason he did not carry out "restorative justice" [
sic] for this particular victim was because the perpetrator was also a member of his own family. Had the abuser been someone unrelated, I don't believe he'd have hesitated for a second.
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 07:11:35 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2009, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 21, 2009, 02:44:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 02:39:33 PM
try to stay on topic.
;D
What's amusing you? The title of this thread is "Adams' brother sought over alleged child abuse". all my posts have been strictly on the topic of Gerry Adams and his conduct with regard to his brother etc. ::)
You know little about the abuse and know little about the conduct of Gerry Adams, yet you surmise and self righteously pontificate like the good little ultra reactionary you are.
Predictable repetitive agenda but above all, so utterly ignorant of abuse within families.
I know as much about the abuse as any of the other posters on this thread - but somehow I'm not "allowed" to comment, since I fail to conform to the usual take on such issues by posters on this forum?
Rather than dishing out personal insults, why don't you address the points which I (and one or two others) have made?
Did I say you were not allowed to comment?
Quotesince I fail to conform to the usual take on such issues by posters on this forum?
ah, the misplaced martyr complex.
You credit yourself too much.
You are taken to task because of the nonsense content of your posts.
QuoteRather than dishing out personal insults
,
Some martyr ::)
Where were they dished out? all comments refer to the evidence of the content of your posts.
Quotewhy don't you address the points which I (and one or two others) have made?
I don't usually comment on surmises made by somebody, with no credible factual base and who it is plain to see has a subjective perspective severely tainted by an agenda.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on December 21, 2009, 04:46:03 PM
EG is caught up in the tabloidesque "Let's Make Adams The Story" approach to this issue and quite clearly doesn't give a flying feck about any of the victims in this case.
"Quite clearly"?
I have the utmost sympathy for the young woman who has had to endure years of misery at the hands of this fiend - that much should go without saying (unless, perhaps, you're a Unionist on GAAboard, which makes you "fair game" for all sorts of sh1te).
But if posters are only going to state the obvious - victims deserve sympathy, perpetrators deserve condemnation etc - then it is hardly going to make for debate, is it?
Rather, when I read people expressing sympathy for Gerry Adams in all this, as though he were also one of the "victims", it makes me want to boak.
I have already pointed out the rank hypocrisy of his "understanding" of the players in this particular situation, compared with his cold-blooded callousness when it is people outwith the Republican/Provo "family" who are accused of such crimes.
But all of that is before I think of all the other children who were directly "abused" by members of a certain organisation of which he was never a member - the children who were themselves maimed, even killed in terrorist bombings, or orphaned, or forced out of their homes in terror etc. How much compassion has he ever shown for the two small children who died in Warrington, for instance? Or the ten young children of Jean McConville, who were abused, shunned and taunted even after their mother was taken from them by an IRA "punishment squad"?
Or closer to home, the countless youngsters who were recruited into the Fianna etc by notorious Republican families like the Adamses, but who later came to regret bitterly that they'd ever been led astray. I had a Catholic neighbour, as decent a man as ever breathed, who hated violence and division with a passion. However, one of his daughters was drawn into the IRA whilst barely into her teens, attracted (one assumes) by the "glamour" and "excitement" it offered in a quiet rural backwater. I don't know whether her father ever knew about her involvement, but it must have broken his heart when she later repented her involvement, seeing no way out other than to take her own life whilst barely yet a woman.
And now the reality of child abuse is visited upon Adams himself. Well, I would never wish it upon anyone, even including Adams himself, but I will say this. When it comes to my sympathy, I reserve all I have for the poor young woman in all this - for I have none whatever for Adams himself.
Meanwhile, having observed the way after a period when Adams uncharacteristically stayed out of the limelight, this decades-old scandal "coincidentally" became public in the gap between the Dublin Abuse Report and the run-up to Christmas, followed by the careful deflection provided by his revelations about what a total **** his father was, I await with interest (and rising nausea) to see what the next installment from the "Adams Family News Management Agency" will be...
Quote from: Evil Genius on December 21, 2009, 08:05:13 PM
And now the reality of child abuse is visited upon Adams himself. Well, I would never wish it upon anyone, even including Adams himself, but I will say this. When it comes to my sympathy, I reserve all I have for the poor young woman in all this - for I have none whatever for Adams himself.
This point has already been clearly addressed earlier on in a reply to Hardy's question, which he accepted.
No one is minimising the plight of the girl and pouring sympathy towards Gerry Adams, rather exception is taken on the attempt to twist it into an attack on Gerry Adams based on what has been proved as bad facts or at a minimum hotly contested facts and in your case also a cynical agenda.
What a vile and pathetic little man you are EG. Keep talking, you're showing yourself up.
EG would have us believe that Adams has a case to enter here, he doesnt, not only that but EG takes every word contrary to what Adams says as Gospel, i.e. the fact that there is no diocumentation that he contacted them about the alleged abuse of a child by his brother.
EG, your disdain for Sinn Fein and Adams eats at your credibility here, I have no time for either him or the party he represents but I think he has handled this as best he can, I understsnd his hesitance to work with the police and about the only thing I can blame him for is the fact that he didnt dispense justice to his brother and father the way the shinners did with other sick cnuts that raped children.
I have some sympathy for Adams, his father was a child molester as was his brother, how could you not feel for the family given these circumstances.
Adams molested nobody, dont paint him as part of the problem here, he isnt.
Quote from: stew on December 21, 2009, 09:31:29 PM
EG would have us believe that Adams has a case to enter here, he doesnt, not only that but EG takes every word contrary to what Adams says as Gospel, i.e. the fact that there is no diocumentation that he contacted them about the alleged abuse of a child by his brother.
EG, your disdain for Sinn Fein and Adams eats at your credibility here, I have no time for either him or the party he represents but I think he has handled this as best he can, I understsnd his hesitance to work with the police and about the only thing I can blame him for is the fact that he didnt dispense justice to his brother and father the way the shinners did with other sick cnuts that raped children.
I have some sympathy for Adams, his father was a child molester as was his brother, how could you not feel for the family given these circumstances.
Adams molested nobody, dont paint him as part of the problem here, he isnt.
The fact that EG can bring Jean McConville in to a discussion about this says it all!
The thing that there's no documentation is a bit stupid, if Adams had a quiet word with someone does anyone think that person wrote it down on a piece of paper and put it in a filing cabinet?! ffs... Why was it his responsibility to do this anyway? If you're going to blame Gerry for not telling people you could also blame the victim and her mother and just about everyone else that knew. Then you'd have to start going around all the other victims of rape and sexual abuse who never found the strength to proceed with cases, and their families, and blame them for not following around their attacker and telling everyone they came in contact with of the allegations.
Rape victims and sexual abuse victims are encouraged to come forward, Gerry Adams family does and all they get is their brother, who seems to have supported them 100%, hounded. Any outsider would think he was the one doing the abusing.
He's not going to get his brother a punishment beating for the same reason he allowed the tri colour to go on his father's coffin, because the abuse thing would have come out and that's not what the victim wanted!
I know of at least 4 people who, in the past, have been accused of sexual abuse - one of them was convicted actually - and none of them got a punishment beating. As BC says not everyone was treated the same whether they're a relation of Gerry Adams or not.
In terms of the Clonard youth club aspect, there are two parties with questions to answer. Firstly, it seems that the police gave the youth club the all clear to employ Liam Adams. Given that the allegations against him must have still been on file, should this not have been reported to the youth club management? Secondly, Gerry Adams needs to be clear how he dealt with the situation. Who did he approach at the club to alert that they were employing a paedophile? When he realised that this person or persons weren't acting on his information, what did he do? Did he just drop it, thinking that he'd done his bit? Liam Adams worked there for 5 years. Did this not give Gerry cause for concern?
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 21, 2009, 10:59:15 PM
In terms of the Clonard youth club aspect, there are two parties with questions to answer. Firstly, it seems that the police gave the youth club the all clear to employ Liam Adams. Given that the allegations against him must have still been on file, should this not have been reported to the youth club management? Secondly, Gerry Adams needs to be clear how he dealt with the situation. Who did he approach at the club to alert that they were employing a paedophile? When he realised that this person or persons weren't acting on his information, what did he do? Did he just drop it, thinking that he'd done his bit? Liam Adams worked there for 5 years. Did this not give Gerry cause for concern?
As I said before - Bishop of Limerick scenario here. The pressure will grow and GA will need to be crystal clear in his words. If he tried to get his brother expelled from Sinn Fein for his alleged activities, then why did he not go to the hierarchy at Clonard - or the PSNI - regarding his job? - he has been on 1st name terms with the Clonard fraternity for 30 years. I know that blood is thicker than water, but there is an issue of sexual morality at stake. However, the most glaring aspect in this is that he has decided to go public on his brother and his father, thus besmirching their names for eternity, but will still not admit that he was ever in the 'Ra? Feck me, discuss? I think he is finished.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 21, 2009, 10:59:15 PM
In terms of the Clonard youth club aspect, there are two parties with questions to answer. Firstly, it seems that the police gave the youth club the all clear to employ Liam Adams. Given that the allegations against him must have still been on file, should this not have been reported to the youth club management? Secondly, Gerry Adams needs to be clear how he dealt with the situation. Who did he approach at the club to alert that they were employing a paedophile? When he realised that this person or persons weren't acting on his information, what did he do? Did he just drop it, thinking that he'd done his bit? Liam Adams worked there for 5 years. Did this not give Gerry cause for concern?
Why does he need to do that? Maybe you can answer the questions in my post above yours about why it's his responsibility etc.
A stupid post Hurler, I thought you were better than that.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:12:54 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 21, 2009, 10:59:15 PM
In terms of the Clonard youth club aspect, there are two parties with questions to answer. Firstly, it seems that the police gave the youth club the all clear to employ Liam Adams. Given that the allegations against him must have still been on file, should this not have been reported to the youth club management? Secondly, Gerry Adams needs to be clear how he dealt with the situation. Who did he approach at the club to alert that they were employing a paedophile? When he realised that this person or persons weren't acting on his information, what did he do? Did he just drop it, thinking that he'd done his bit? Liam Adams worked there for 5 years. Did this not give Gerry cause for concern?
Pints if you had a brother you knew was a paedophile was working with young children and had, allegedly, informed this youth group of his actions would you not feel any moral obligation to ensure he didn't work with this or any children again?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:12:54 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 21, 2009, 10:59:15 PM
In terms of the Clonard youth club aspect, there are two parties with questions to answer. Firstly, it seems that the police gave the youth club the all clear to employ Liam Adams. Given that the allegations against him must have still been on file, should this not have been reported to the youth club management? Secondly, Gerry Adams needs to be clear how he dealt with the situation. Who did he approach at the club to alert that they were employing a paedophile? When he realised that this person or persons weren't acting on his information, what did he do? Did he just drop it, thinking that he'd done his bit? Liam Adams worked there for 5 years. Did this not give Gerry cause for concern?
Why does he need to do that? Maybe you can answer the questions in my post above yours about why it's his responsibility etc.
A stupid post Hurler, I thought you were better than that.
POG - patronising me will not deflect from what is essentially true in my post and the word 'stupid' is a bit of a kop-out.
Quote
Pints if you had a brother you knew was a paedophile was working with young children and had, allegedly, informed this youth group of his actions would you not feel any moral obligation to ensure he didn't work with this or any children again?
I don't know how I'd feel minder, probably but there would be a lot of things to consider.
As I said in my earlier post, why is it gerry adams' responsibility to follow his brother around and alert everyone he comes in contact with of the allegations against him?
Why not other members of the family? the victim herself or her mother? or the police or social services!
If Liam Adams had to rape the girl next door and she told her family but they decided not to pursue a case and he was working with children in west belfast not one person here would criticise members of that family for not alerting the relevant people so why criticise Gerry Adams?
For god sake Hurler you manage to criticise adams for going public about his brother and father (when he didnt go public about his brother, his niece did) because it is "besmirching their names for eternity" but at the same time criticises him for not going to the youth club management and getting his brother sacked ::) Do you not see the contradiction there?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
Quote
Pints if you had a brother you knew was a paedophile was working with young children and had, allegedly, informed this youth group of his actions would you not feel any moral obligation to ensure he didn't work with this or any children again?
I don't know how I'd feel minder, probably but there would be a lot of things to consider.
As I said in my earlier post, why is it gerry adams' responsibility to follow his brother around and alert everyone he comes in contact with of the allegations against him?
Why not other members of the family? the victim herself or her mother? or the police or social services!
If Liam Adams had to rape the girl next door and she told her family but they decided not to pursue a case and he was working with children in west belfast not one person here would criticise members of that family for not alerting the relevant people so why criticise Gerry Adams?
For god sake Hurler you manage to criticise adams for going public about his brother and father (when he didnt go public about his brother, his niece did) because it is "besmirching their names for eternity" but at the same time criticises him for not going to the youth club management and getting his brother sacked ::) Do you not see the contradiction there?
POG - I don't want to get into a debate on the whys and wherefores of this etc. All I will add is that is is perhaps time that the MODS took a look at this thread as there are serious implications.
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 21, 2009, 11:38:39 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
Quote
Pints if you had a brother you knew was a paedophile was working with young children and had, allegedly, informed this youth group of his actions would you not feel any moral obligation to ensure he didn't work with this or any children again?
I don't know how I'd feel minder, probably but there would be a lot of things to consider.
As I said in my earlier post, why is it gerry adams' responsibility to follow his brother around and alert everyone he comes in contact with of the allegations against him?
Why not other members of the family? the victim herself or her mother? or the police or social services!
If Liam Adams had to rape the girl next door and she told her family but they decided not to pursue a case and he was working with children in west belfast not one person here would criticise members of that family for not alerting the relevant people so why criticise Gerry Adams?
For god sake Hurler you manage to criticise adams for going public about his brother and father (when he didnt go public about his brother, his niece did) because it is "besmirching their names for eternity" but at the same time criticises him for not going to the youth club management and getting his brother sacked ::) Do you not see the contradiction there?
POG - I don't want to get into a debate on the whys and wherefores of this etc. All I will add is that is is perhaps time that the MODS took a look at this thread as there are serious implications.
You don't want to get into a debate because you haven't even the basic facts e.g. Gerry Adams did not go public about his brother.
A minute ago you wanted us to discuss if he was finished and now you don't want to get in to a debate because you made a stupid contradictory post and have been shown up.
Cop out, you may go and sit with Trevor Hill.
No one here (unless been through it) can judge how you would react to this.
as the bitch says this could finish Adams, certainly actions early on would been better.
Hopefully this may make it easier for other people who were abused come out and nail these f**kers to the wall
the amount of posters on this site who have made all the right decisions ........
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2009, 11:44:12 PM
No one here (unless been through it) can judge how you would react to this.
as the bitch says this could finish Adams, certainly actions early on would been better.
Hopefully this may make it easier for other people who were abused come out and nail these f**kers to the wall
the amount of posters on this site who have made all the right decisions ........
Like what?
Quote from: hardstation on December 21, 2009, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
As I said in my earlier post, why is it gerry adams' responsibility to follow his brother around and alert everyone he comes in contact with of the allegations against him?
MP for the area knows of a paedo working with children.
Not an MP's job to vet people working with children, that's the job of the police and social services.
like checks being done properly before allowing him to work in Clonard (my youth club when i was a pup) like the abused following through with the allegations. Adams could have went to the police/ or informed Clonard youth club of his fears.
pints if your brother was a peado would you inform a Youth club that he worked in?
again its all ifs and buts. untill your in a situation like this then we really can only think how you'd react.
i believe i'd have the strong character to make it known to all.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2009, 11:58:39 PM
like checks being done properly before allowing him to work in Clonard (my youth club when i was a pup) like the abused following through with the allegations. Adams could have went to the police/ or informed Clonard youth club of his fears.
pints if your brother was a peado would you inform a Youth club that he worked in?
again its all ifs and buts. untill your in a situation like this then we really can only think how you'd react.
i believe i'd have the strong character to make it known to all.
YOu mighten if you thought it would add to the pain of other members of the family if it came public before they were ready.
It's very easy to say the abused should have proceeded with the case but many don't, many never even report it.
I agree that checks should have been done properly but Adams has said he informed Clonard.
Hardstation, why is Adams open for criticism when you'd never criticise any other abused victim or their family for not screaming from the roof tops if they found out the abuser was working with children?
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2009, 12:14:47 AM
Not the point I'm making pog, more pulling you up on the quote in question.
It is the job of everyone (especially the elected MP of the area) to ensure that no children are at risk with a paedo working at a youth club.
Easier said than done though if it's you're only family being torn apart by it. That understanding is given to other victims and their families but not the adams'.
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2009, 12:20:49 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 22, 2009, 12:17:19 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2009, 12:14:47 AM
Not the point I'm making pog, more pulling you up on the quote in question.
It is the job of everyone (especially the elected MP of the area) to ensure that no children are at risk with a paedo working at a youth club.
Easier said than done though if it's you're only family being torn apart by it. That understanding is given to other victims and their families but not the adams'.
His own family had already been torn apart by it at that stage. The possibility of other families suffering for the sake of "hush hush" is fcuked up.
and you extend that criticism to other victims and their families?
MP or not, he still had an obligation to do everything within his means to stop the brar working at the Youth Centre.
Are you saying otherwise POG?
Quote from: Lady GAA GAA on December 22, 2009, 12:29:06 AM
MP or not, he still had an obligation to do everything within his means to stop the brar working at the Youth Centre.
Are you saying otherwise POG?
I dont think it was his responsibility to follow the brother around, no. Just as it's not the victim's responsibility or any other member of the family or the responsibility of any other sex abuse victim or their families. It was reported to the police and social services.
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2009, 12:30:16 AM
He is the MP. I believe it's his job! Our MP lets his fcuked up brother run about a youth club.
Jaysus....they wonder how clerical abuse was let go.
So did the police and social services
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2009, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 22, 2009, 12:37:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2009, 12:30:16 AM
He is the MP. I believe it's his job! Our MP lets his fcuked up brother run about a youth club.
Jaysus....they wonder how clerical abuse was let go.
So did the police and social services
And so too did West Belfast MP.....Gerry Adams.
and he says he told them
If Adams told the youth club that they had employed a Paedophille then i think he took the right approach. If he did not then I think that reflects very badly on him. It may not be his direct job but I know I would expect that of my MP/TD.
However, most blame must go to Social Services and PSNI (although since he had not been convicted perhaps legally they cannot inform anyone of an allegation made against him, even if they were the ones that failed to act on the allegation)
What is most wrong about all this is that Gerry and not Liam is now the story and everything is about getting a kick at him. That tells me a lot about the media in this country.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 22, 2009, 09:04:19 AM
If Adams told the youth club that they had employed a Paedophille then i think he took the right approach. If he did not then I think that reflects very badly on him. It may not be his direct job but I know I would expect that of my MP/TD.
However, most blame must go to Social Services and PSNI (although since he had not been convicted perhaps legally they cannot inform anyone of an allegation made against him, even if they were the ones that failed to act on the allegation)
What is most wrong about all this is that Gerry and not Liam is now the story and everything is about getting a kick at him. That tells me a lot about the media in this country.
Agree.
Why has this now turned into a Gerry Adams witch-hunt, the one at fault is the man who carried out the vile actions, also the Police and social services. Adams is on record as sayiing he informed Clonard about his brother, what more could he do. Alot on here sitting on a high horse, God forbid you were ever in GA's position, Christ the man suffered abuse himself from his own father.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on December 22, 2009, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 22, 2009, 09:04:19 AM
If Adams told the youth club that they had employed a Paedophille then i think he took the right approach. If he did not then I think that reflects very badly on him. It may not be his direct job but I know I would expect that of my MP/TD.
However, most blame must go to Social Services and PSNI (although since he had not been convicted perhaps legally they cannot inform anyone of an allegation made against him, even if they were the ones that failed to act on the allegation)
What is most wrong about all this is that Gerry and not Liam is now the story and everything is about getting a kick at him. That tells me a lot about the media in this country.
Agree.
Why has this now turned into a Gerry Adams witch-hunt, the one at fault is the man who carried out the vile actions, also the Police and social services. Adams is on record as sayiing he informed Clonard about his brother, what more could he do. Alot on here sitting on a high horse, God forbid you were ever in GA's position, Christ the man suffered abuse himself from his own father.
I thought he said he was never abused by his father.
Quote from: Minder on December 22, 2009, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on December 22, 2009, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 22, 2009, 09:04:19 AM
If Adams told the youth club that they had employed a Paedophille then i think he took the right approach. If he did not then I think that reflects very badly on him. It may not be his direct job but I know I would expect that of my MP/TD.
However, most blame must go to Social Services and PSNI (although since he had not been convicted perhaps legally they cannot inform anyone of an allegation made against him, even if they were the ones that failed to act on the allegation)
What is most wrong about all this is that Gerry and not Liam is now the story and everything is about getting a kick at him. That tells me a lot about the media in this country.
Agree.
Why has this now turned into a Gerry Adams witch-hunt, the one at fault is the man who carried out the vile actions, also the Police and social services. Adams is on record as sayiing he informed Clonard about his brother, what more could he do. Alot on here sitting on a high horse, God forbid you were ever in GA's position, Christ the man suffered abuse himself from his own father.
I thought he said he was never abused by his father.
Sadly abuse isn't just physical or sexual, can't imagine the emotional and mental torture he went through knowing what his daddy did.
How the sins of the father came back to haunt Adams
The Sinn Fein leader's revelation that Gerry Adams snr sexually abused members of his family could mean a re-evaluation of his own role during the Troubles, argues Malachi O'Doherty
Tuesday, 22 December 2009
gerry Adams has disclosed that his father was a thug and a paedophile. It is an extraordinary revelation that will now feature in every history written of the IRA.
Gerry wants us to hear him as an individual speaking for a family, but it is inevitable that the character of Gerry Adams senior and his effect on his son will be examined for their historic relevance.
The question is: what formative influence, if any, did abuse and child rape play in the creation of the Provisional IRA?
Not much, if the father was an exceptionally evil and twisted man, for Gerry, however damaged he might have been himself, cannot be blamed for the whole movement.
But this disclosure, coming against the backdrop of revelations about abuse by priests and members of religious orders, prompts us to wonder just how sick the Catholic nationalist culture was.
Gerry Adams lived with a father, who was a brute, and went to school at the Christian Brothers - many of whom also were sadists.
He gives every impression of being a man who survived that, as did thousands of others.
Indeed some of his contemporaries merely laugh at the suggestion that the Brothers left them with emotional scars.
But those who faced beatings and abuse at school and at home hadn't much space within which to be relaxed and happy.
Perhaps that is a clue to why Gerry Adams writes so sentimentally about the women in his family background, for they provided some escape perhaps.
It may also be a clue to why he often speaks of the republican movement as a family.
He speaks as if his father besmirched the republican tradition, but with an understanding that the tradition itself is noble and decent.
But what if the anger that drove the war was an anger that should properly have been directed at fathers?
Gerry Adams senior was one of a generation of republicans in Belfast that included men like Joe Cahill and Billy McKee.
Would it be news to them that Adams senior was taking sexual release on the bodies of his children?
Gerry junior's claim that this has nothing to do with the party is probably a vain hope and a naive one if he really believes it.
The story raises questions about how the IRA conducted itself, in his generation, towards children.
It orphaned many, including the children of Jean McConville. That was not a conscientious attack on children, but much else that the Provos did was.
Thousands of young men were shot in the legs by them. They were made to lie on the ground and a gun was brought to the backs of their legs in a form of abuse that has strong sexual resonances.
Most of those young men were hoodlums and car-thieves and drug-dealers. Many were sons of republicans and their criminality was a revolt against violent parents.
The single greatest expenditure of small arms fire by the Provisionals was, therefore, in a generational war against young men, many of whom were motivated by violence in the home.
Many sex-offenders were shot dead by the IRA. Gerry says blithely that, even in the 1980s, he would have gone to the RUC and reported abuse to them.
That is implausible and can only have traction among those who don't know their history.
Any other republican who had reported Liam Adams to the RUC, who had done what Aine did, would have been shunted down to the border for a quiet word with Freddie Scappaticci and then shot in the head.
And any other paedophile who had raped a child in west Belfast would have been killed by the IRA, not reported to the police.
What we need now is not a political explanation of the IRA campaign, but a psychosexual one.
And the appaling prospect is that it fits within a yet-larger story of abuse and the contempt for children that festered inside the Catholic Church and the religious orders who taught the young Provos and their fathers.
The question over Gerry Adams is whether he would have become a ruthless warlord and devious politician if he had not been nurtured by a paedophile and educated by sexually conflicted men in black.
And Sinn Fein now has to ask itself whether it can afford to have its modern origins examined in these terms.
There are two possible way this could go for Gerry himself.
He is clearly managing intense personal questions about his past with aplomb. Others would break.
He presents himself now as the patriarch of a large and united family, bravely addressing its pain and moving on.
This may all be absorbed by the wider public as a huge credit to him. He would like us to see him as a compassionate and feeling man and he may succeed.
In that event, he will appear much larger than he is now.
But will he still fit in as the party leader?
He has already redefined himself in one stroke.
Just standing in a room with him will feel different now for many who thought they knew him.
The other possibility is that he will get mired in questions about his conduct. Whatever he says, the most likely reason for disclosing his father's abuse when he did was to remove his niece Aine from the centre of the story about abuse in the Adams family.
That can be read as monumental cynicism.
And the war itself, which he remembers as heroic and warranted, will be re-evaluated in the context of the culture of abuse out of which it grew.
Great family man and survivor, or twisted manipulator whose cynicism can now be explained by a background of abuse; these are the possible images of Gerry Adams that will prevail.
And the rest of the party must be feeling like helpless witnesses to his astonishing story.
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/how-the-sins-of-the-father-came-back-to-haunt-adams-14607445.html#ixzz0aPoz0TLx
Probably the worst article i've ever read. Unionists seem to think the troubles arose in a vacuum, or because of child abuse, or anger towards abusive fathers that was turned against the Brits. Unreal
Indeed, there were plenty of child abusers in the RUC, B Specials and British Army - you know the ones that shot and beat kids of the street. What a ridiculous piece of journalism that is.
QuoteHow the sins of the father came back to haunt Adams
The Sinn Fein leader's revelation that Gerry Adams snr sexually abused members of his family could mean a re-evaluation of his own role during the Troubles, argues Malachi O'Doherty
I didnt read past that bit.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on December 22, 2009, 11:21:47 AM
Quote from: Minder on December 22, 2009, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on December 22, 2009, 10:48:21 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 22, 2009, 09:04:19 AM
If Adams told the youth club that they had employed a Paedophille then i think he took the right approach. If he did not then I think that reflects very badly on him. It may not be his direct job but I know I would expect that of my MP/TD.
However, most blame must go to Social Services and PSNI (although since he had not been convicted perhaps legally they cannot inform anyone of an allegation made against him, even if they were the ones that failed to act on the allegation)
What is most wrong about all this is that Gerry and not Liam is now the story and everything is about getting a kick at him. That tells me a lot about the media in this country.
Agree.
Why has this now turned into a Gerry Adams witch-hunt, the one at fault is the man who carried out the vile actions, also the Police and social services. Adams is on record as sayiing he informed Clonard about his brother, what more could he do. Alot on here sitting on a high horse, God forbid you were ever in GA's position, Christ the man suffered abuse himself from his own father.
I thought he said he was never abused by his father.
Sadly abuse isn't just physical or sexual, can't imagine the emotional and mental torture he went through knowing what his daddy did.
He didnt know until the issue with his neice reared its head. He never knew what his father was doing. At least thats what I took from his statement.
Quote from: TirEoghaingodeo on December 22, 2009, 11:27:05 AM
How the sins of the father came back to haunt Adams
The Sinn Fein leader's revelation that Gerry Adams snr sexually abused members of his family could mean a re-evaluation of his own role during the Troubles, argues Malachi O'Doherty
Tuesday, 22 December 2009
gerry Adams has disclosed that his father was a thug and a paedophile. It is an extraordinary revelation that will now feature in every history written of the IRA.
Gerry wants us to hear him as an individual speaking for a family, but it is inevitable that the character of Gerry Adams senior and his effect on his son will be examined for their historic relevance.
The question is: what formative influence, if any, did abuse and child rape play in the creation of the Provisional IRA?
Not much, if the father was an exceptionally evil and twisted man, for Gerry, however damaged he might have been himself, cannot be blamed for the whole movement.
But this disclosure, coming against the backdrop of revelations about abuse by priests and members of religious orders, prompts us to wonder just how sick the Catholic nationalist culture was.
Gerry Adams lived with a father, who was a brute, and went to school at the Christian Brothers - many of whom also were sadists.
He gives every impression of being a man who survived that, as did thousands of others.
Indeed some of his contemporaries merely laugh at the suggestion that the Brothers left them with emotional scars.
But those who faced beatings and abuse at school and at home hadn't much space within which to be relaxed and happy.
Perhaps that is a clue to why Gerry Adams writes so sentimentally about the women in his family background, for they provided some escape perhaps.
It may also be a clue to why he often speaks of the republican movement as a family.
He speaks as if his father besmirched the republican tradition, but with an understanding that the tradition itself is noble and decent.
But what if the anger that drove the war was an anger that should properly have been directed at fathers?
Gerry Adams senior was one of a generation of republicans in Belfast that included men like Joe Cahill and Billy McKee.
Would it be news to them that Adams senior was taking sexual release on the bodies of his children?
Gerry junior's claim that this has nothing to do with the party is probably a vain hope and a naive one if he really believes it.
The story raises questions about how the IRA conducted itself, in his generation, towards children.
It orphaned many, including the children of Jean McConville. That was not a conscientious attack on children, but much else that the Provos did was.
Thousands of young men were shot in the legs by them. They were made to lie on the ground and a gun was brought to the backs of their legs in a form of abuse that has strong sexual resonances.
Most of those young men were hoodlums and car-thieves and drug-dealers. Many were sons of republicans and their criminality was a revolt against violent parents.
The single greatest expenditure of small arms fire by the Provisionals was, therefore, in a generational war against young men, many of whom were motivated by violence in the home.
Many sex-offenders were shot dead by the IRA. Gerry says blithely that, even in the 1980s, he would have gone to the RUC and reported abuse to them.
That is implausible and can only have traction among those who don't know their history.
Any other republican who had reported Liam Adams to the RUC, who had done what Aine did, would have been shunted down to the border for a quiet word with Freddie Scappaticci and then shot in the head.
And any other paedophile who had raped a child in west Belfast would have been killed by the IRA, not reported to the police.
What we need now is not a political explanation of the IRA campaign, but a psychosexual one.
And the appaling prospect is that it fits within a yet-larger story of abuse and the contempt for children that festered inside the Catholic Church and the religious orders who taught the young Provos and their fathers.
The question over Gerry Adams is whether he would have become a ruthless warlord and devious politician if he had not been nurtured by a paedophile and educated by sexually conflicted men in black.
And Sinn Fein now has to ask itself whether it can afford to have its modern origins examined in these terms.
There are two possible way this could go for Gerry himself.
He is clearly managing intense personal questions about his past with aplomb. Others would break.
He presents himself now as the patriarch of a large and united family, bravely addressing its pain and moving on.
This may all be absorbed by the wider public as a huge credit to him. He would like us to see him as a compassionate and feeling man and he may succeed.
In that event, he will appear much larger than he is now.
But will he still fit in as the party leader?
He has already redefined himself in one stroke.
Just standing in a room with him will feel different now for many who thought they knew him.
The other possibility is that he will get mired in questions about his conduct. Whatever he says, the most likely reason for disclosing his father's abuse when he did was to remove his niece Aine from the centre of the story about abuse in the Adams family.
That can be read as monumental cynicism.
And the war itself, which he remembers as heroic and warranted, will be re-evaluated in the context of the culture of abuse out of which it grew.
Great family man and survivor, or twisted manipulator whose cynicism can now be explained by a background of abuse; these are the possible images of Gerry Adams that will prevail.
And the rest of the party must be feeling like helpless witnesses to his astonishing story.
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/how-the-sins-of-the-father-came-back-to-haunt-adams-14607445.html#ixzz0aPoz0TL
Not a new theme:
Anseo
by Paul Muldoon
When the master was calling the roll
At the primary school in Collegelands,
You were meant to call back Anseo
And raise your hand
As your name occurred.
Anseo, meaning here, here and now,
All present and correct,
Was the first word of Irish I spoke.
The last name on the ledger
Belonged to Joseph Mary Plunkett Ward
And was followed, as often as not,
By silence, knowing looks,
A nod and a wink, the master's droll
'And where's our little Ward-of-court?'
I remember the first time he came back
The master had sent him out
Along the hedges
To weigh up for himself and cut
A stick with which he would be beaten.
After a while, nothing was spoken;
He would arrive as a matter of course
With an ash-plant, a salley-rod.
Or, finally, the hazel-wand
He had whittled down to a whip-lash,
Its twist of red and yellow lacquers
Sanded and polished,
And altogether so delicately wrought
That he had engraved his initials on it.
I last met Joseph Mary Plunkett Ward
In a pub just over the Irish border.
He was living in the open,
in a secret camp
On the other side of the mountain.
He was fighting for Ireland,
Making things happen.
And he told me, Joe Ward,
Of how he had risen through the ranks
To Quartermaster, Commandant:
How every morning at parade
His volunteers would call back Anseo
And raise their hands
As their names occurred.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:58:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 21, 2009, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
As I said in my earlier post, why is it gerry adams' responsibility to follow his brother around and alert everyone he comes in contact with of the allegations against him?
MP for the area knows of a paedo working with children.
Not an MP's job to vet people working with children, that's the job of the police and social services.
Hold on POG - an MP - Member of a British elected Parliament at that - is, in fact, a public figure. The reality is that by putting yourself forward for election you are accepting that your moral integrity will be open to scrutiny. Basically, any skeletons in the cupboard are fair game. GA has accepted that, in hindsight, he 'perhaps could have handled things differently' - that is, in essence, damage limitation on his behalf. As a man who walks and acts increasingly as if he is a world statesman, his legacy is on the line here. Sad fact is that his political obituary is in draft form and regardless of the part he played in bringing peace to Ireland, his credibility could be overshadowed by this episode which has festered for over two decades.
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 22, 2009, 08:45:17 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:58:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 21, 2009, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 21, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
As I said in my earlier post, why is it gerry adams' responsibility to follow his brother around and alert everyone he comes in contact with of the allegations against him?
MP for the area knows of a paedo working with children.
Not an MP's job to vet people working with children, that's the job of the police and social services.
Hold on POG - an MP - Member of a British elected Parliament at that - is, in fact, a public figure. The reality is that by putting yourself forward for election you are accepting that your moral integrity will be open to scrutiny. Basically, any skeletons in the cupboard are fair game. GA has accepted that, in hindsight, he 'perhaps could have handled things differently' - that is, in essence, damage limitation on his behalf. As a man who walks and acts increasingly as if he is a world statesman, his legacy is on the line here. Sad fact is that his political obituary is in draft form and regardless of the part he played in bringing peace to Ireland, his credibility could be overshadowed by this episode which has festered for over two decades.
He walks like he's a world statesman? :D
I've said all I have have to say on the subject last night.
Liam Adams hands himself in to police over abuse claims
A brother of Gerry Adams, who is wanted in connection with allegations he abused his daughter, has turned himself into Irish police.
Liam Adams went into a police station in Sligo on Monday afternoon.
It is understood detectives there could not detain him because they did not have the necessary European arrest warrant.
Mr Adams left the station after giving police his name and address and saying that he was willing to be questioned.
Liam Adams' daughter, Aine Tyrell, has waived her right to anonymity to allege that he sexually abused her when she was a young child.
The PSNI has confirmed that it has issued a warrant for his arrest but it only covers Northern Ireland.
It is understood officers are working to prepare the necessary European arrest warrant but that it may take some time.
Earlier this week, Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams appealed to his brother to come forward.
Pressure
However, he has come under pressure after it emerged that he first knew about the allegation against his brother in the late 1980s.
Since then, Liam Adams has worked with young people in a number of different capacities.
Gerry Adams has said that he intervened to tell a youth group in west Belfast that his brother should not be working there. However the Clonard Youth Project has denied that it knew at any point about the allegation against Liam Adams.
Another community project for which Liam Adams worked between 2004 and 2006 has criticised the authorities for not alerting them about his past when his application for a post as a youth worker was vetted.
They say that the police and social services have "serious questions" to answer about his subsequent appointment to the post.
Liam Adams was also active in Sinn Fein in Dundalk in 1997.
The Sunday Tribune has claimed he intended to seek the nomination to be a Sinn Fein candidate in the area in the 1997 Irish general election but was defeated by a local hardliner.
However, Gerry Adams has said this was not the case. He told Irish radio on Monday that his brother was never put forward as a candidate, adding: "I moved very quickly to get him dumped out of Sinn Fein."
During the interview in which Gerry Adams appealed for his brother to hand himself in, he also revealed that his father, a veteran republican, had been responsible for acts of physical and sexual abuse against his own children.
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8427516.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8427516.stm)
Gerry Adams has some serious questions to answer here. If as suggested that he knew about Liam's wrong doings for over 20 years then why did he do nothing about it. Liam worked with kids in both Belfast and Dundalk. Now lets forget that he is Gerry's brother for one minute here. If any of you knew that a suspected paedophile was working with kids, of any age, would you not want something done about it? The whole thing stinks and it is made worse that the man in question happens to be the brother of a high profile politician.
I understand that a lot of people have a problem with the police in NI and they may be reluctant to report certain things, but this is different. Crimes against children are the bottom of the barrel, the perpetrators do not deserve to be protected from the authorities, no matter who they are. The Gardai and the Catholic Church have come in for a lot of stick over the last few weeks because they protected abusers in the past. Gerry Adams is no different. He knew his brother was accused of abusing a child and, like the Church and Gardai he turned a blind eye because he thought the accused was beyond reproach.
If I thought that anyone belonging to me, be that family or friend, was interfering with children, I would not hesitate to contact the relevant authorities. If anyone on this board or in the rest of society would do anything different then they are as bad as the people who abuse children. Those same authorities, be that the police or social services also have a lot of questions to answer, but lets not blame the wrong people here, the person most at fault here is Liam Adams.
That article is absolutely shocking.That a mainstream paper like the belfast telegraph should publish something like that beggars belief. It is an absolute disgrace - astounding. The editor should be sacked for giving shite like that credibility.
What else would you expect from the Belfast Telegraph?
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2009, 10:49:04 PM
Thousands of young men were shot in the legs by them. They were made to lie on the ground and a gun was brought to the backs of their legs in a form of abuse that has strong sexual resonances.
Does anyone know what this is about?
Its right up there with requesting a psychosexual explanation of the IRA campaign.
Possibly the worst bit of journalism Ive ever seen.
Atrocious piece by O'Doherty but he hates the Christian Brothers (not his first article on them) and republicans, so it was a great opportunity to have a lash at both. Total agenda fuelled.
An international warrant needed to arrest a brother of Gerry Adams who is wanted on sex abuse charges could take six weeks to obtain, it was revealed today.
Liam Adams handed himself in to gardaí on Monday evening but officers were unable to detain him because authorities in the North had not applied for the correct warrant.
The younger brother of the Sinn Féin president is facing 23 charges of raping and molesting his daughter, Aine Tyrell, in the North in the 1970s and 1980s.
He walked into a Garda station in Co Sligo days after the republican leader issued a public appeal urging him to face up to the allegations levelled against him.
But Police Service of Northern Ireland sources said it would be late January "at the earliest" before they could obtain a European Arrest Warrant which would enable gardaí to take Adams into custody and hand him over.
"The situation won't change in the near future unless he hands himself in to police in Northern Ireland," the source added.
The police have been hunting for Adams since last November when he failed to turn up for a court appearance in Belfast. However, it has now emerged that the warrant issued for his arrest then only covered the UK.
Adams, who is in his 50s, is understood to have spoken for a number of hours with senior Garda detectives about his alleged crimes on Monday before leaving the station.
He apparently stayed at a guest house in Sligo that night, but gave no permanent address.
As well as urging his brother to come forward, Gerry Adams has also revealed that his father, Gerry Adams Senior, abused family members before his death.
The allegations surrounding Liam Adams emerged on Friday when his daughter, now 36, waived her right to anonymity and went public with her claims in a documentary on Ulster Television.
In a follow-up TV interview for RTÉ on Sunday, Gerry Adams then disclosed his father's dark past for the first time, claiming Mr Adams Snr "emotionally, physically and sexually abused" a number of his siblings over many years.
The west Belfast MP also admitted he could have done more to stop his brother working with children in the years after he found out about his niece's allegations.
But the Sinn Féin leader said the police and social services also had questions to answer on how Liam Adams was able to get a job as a youth worker, despite both agencies being aware that Ms Tyrell had made claims that he raped and molested her.
Liam Adams worked in the Clonard Youth Centre in Belfast from 1998 to 2003.
During this period he also worked in the Muirhevnamor Community Youth Project in Dundalk, Co Louth. He was then involved with another youth project in west Belfast from 2004 to 2006.
All three organisations said they were not aware of the claims against him.
He obtained the positions before vetting checks for people working with children in Northern Ireland became compulsory (the law changed in 2005) and it is understood he was not subjected to any such procedure.
Quote from: longrunsthefox on December 22, 2009, 10:59:41 PM
Atrocious piece by O'Doherty but he hates the Christian Brothers (not his first article on them) and republicans, so it was a great opportunity to have a lash at both. Total agenda fuelled.
Funny thing is, he was educated by none other than the Christian Brothers, lived in the heart of West Belfast during the Troubles, Andytown I believe and republicans were all around him - I have met him a few times and never been impressed with him. I may not like the Shinners but I don't go after them like a dog with a bone like he has for over 20 years.
Gerry of course deflects the blame away from him to those - such as the Social Services and RUC - who, he claims, have questions to answer as to how the bro got a job as a youth worker. Hold on, hold on! Nearly every feckin youth / community / development / worker in the west - all funded by the British - is a Sinn Fein card carrier .... So, with a name like Liam Adams, and with the face to match, you are elected!!!!
Hurler, although Adams has a lot of questions to answer, the Police and Social Services are not entirely blameless here either. The Police knew of these allegations and should have done the right thing instead of trying to recruit his partner and daughter as informants.
Liam will get a lovely reception in gaol, a kiddie fiddler and a Sinn Feiner all rolled in to one. He`ll be popular.
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 23, 2009, 09:58:21 PM
Gerry of course deflects the blame away from him to those - such as the Social Services and RUC - who, he claims, have questions to answer as to how the bro got a job as a youth worker. Hold on, hold on! Nearly every feckin youth / community / development / worker in the west - all funded by the British - is a Sinn Fein card carrier .... So, with a name like Liam Adams, and with the face to match, you are elected!!!!
God forbid if someone in your family is at this and I'm not suggesting they are, but if so, should you be held responsible?
I've been reading the comments here over the last few days and it just seems to me that this is just another stick people are using to beat Gerry Adams with. Forgetting about the real culprits and failures here.
I was surprised to even read that they condemned Gerry for not organising a punishment beating... I mean FFS people, a bit of composure please!
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 23, 2009, 09:58:21 PM
Gerry of course deflects the blame away from him to those - such as the Social Services and RUC - who, he claims, have questions to answer as to how the bro got a job as a youth worker. Hold on, hold on! Nearly every feckin youth / community / development / worker in the west - all funded by the British - is a Sinn Fein card carrier .... So, with a name like Liam Adams, and with the face to match, you are elected!!!!
Exactly Hurler, you wouldn't get a shift as a "community worker" in West Belfast without the Shinnera knowing about you. f**k me there would be no "community projects" without Sinn Fein, it is a cottage industry. Why try and attract private industry to West Belfast when you can set up all sorts of gigs for your mates, funded by the Brits.
Quote from: hardstation on December 23, 2009, 10:07:40 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on December 23, 2009, 09:52:31 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on December 22, 2009, 10:59:41 PM
Atrocious piece by O'Doherty but he hates the Christian Brothers (not his first article on them) and republicans, so it was a great opportunity to have a lash at both. Total agenda fuelled.
Funny thing is, he was educated by none other than the Christian Brothers, lived in the heart of West Belfast during the Troubles, Andytown I believe and republicans were all around him - I have met him a few times and never been impressed with him. I may not like the Shinners but I don't go after them like a dog with a bone like he has for over 20 years.
It's very unfair. I should have been born a Protestant and I should have gone to Campbell. I should have worn lovely corduroy trousers at prep. I would have been a wonderful fly half. I could have been.....
Yes hs, you got him down to a T. I always found him very annoying
Quote from: hardstation on December 23, 2009, 10:07:40 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on December 23, 2009, 09:52:31 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on December 22, 2009, 10:59:41 PM
Atrocious piece by O'Doherty but he hates the Christian Brothers (not his first article on them) and republicans, so it was a great opportunity to have a lash at both. Total agenda fuelled.
Funny thing is, he was educated by none other than the Christian Brothers, lived in the heart of West Belfast during the Troubles, Andytown I believe and republicans were all around him - I have met him a few times and never been impressed with him. I may not like the Shinners but I don't go after them like a dog with a bone like he has for over 20 years.
It's very unfair. I should have been born a Protestant and I should have gone to Campbell. I should have worn lovely corduroy trousers at prep. I would have been a wonderful fly half. I could have been.....
Malachi - god love him. The fact is that you are just as likely to get one up the 'tradesman's entrance' in Campbell or the CBS. However, I think that Mallachheee doth complain too much. But it gets you the 'my type of taig' exposure in the Beeb and the Belfast Telegraph. Keep sticking the boot in and the pounds will follow!!
Quote from: ziggysego on December 23, 2009, 10:05:58 PM
I've been reading the comments here over the last few days and it just seems to me that this is just another stick people are using to beat Gerry Adams with.
A very apt choice of words Ziggysego. In the old days Gerry would have beat anyone with more than sticks who said anything untoward about his family. ;)
I do agree with you that people are using this to get at Gerry, but he should have made sure Liam was removed from his job as soon as these allegations were known. Instead he brushed it under the carpet and it has come back to bite him in the arse.
According to the Andytown News Gerrys stock "has risen" in the last week in how he has dealt with this furore. Robin Livingstone has learnt his lesson.
Quote from: Minder on December 23, 2009, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 23, 2009, 09:58:21 PM
Gerry of course deflects the blame away from him to those - such as the Social Services and RUC - who, he claims, have questions to answer as to how the bro got a job as a youth worker. Hold on, hold on! Nearly every feckin youth / community / development / worker in the west - all funded by the British - is a Sinn Fein card carrier .... So, with a name like Liam Adams, and with the face to match, you are elected!!!!
Exactly Hurler, you wouldn't get a shift as a "community worker" in West Belfast without the Shinnera knowing about you. f**k me there would be no "community projects" without Sinn Fein, it is a cottage industry. Why try and attract private industry to West Belfast when you can set up all sorts of gigs for your mates, funded by the Brits.
For all the years of "discrimination" there is a Big time Nepotism /in the know out there - and I challenge anyone to contradict me - regarding who gets the "community" jobs in the west. I am sure that the jobs Liam Adams got could / should have gone to ones without the 'CONNECTION' - It really is as blatant as being in the Masons or the Orange Order ..
Quote from: Minder on December 23, 2009, 10:29:02 PM
According to the Andytown News Gerrys stock "has risen" in the last week in how he has dealt with this furore. Robin Livingstone has learnt his lesson.
Marty Millar knows his onions (or which organisation is in a position to stop his advertising revenue). Stock risen? Nah! Say the matter at hand was the British Army / RUC and their beatings - going out on a limb would get you credibility with the people. This is different. This is about the incestious rape over a prolonged period of a young girl. Stock rising? No winners here I'm afraid - but if the ATN wants to claim that GA is the winner here; well, GOD HELP US ALL!!!
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 23, 2009, 10:51:26 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 23, 2009, 10:29:02 PM
According to the Andytown News Gerrys stock "has risen" in the last week in how he has dealt with this furore. Robin Livingstone has learnt his lesson.
Marty Millar knows his onions (or which organisation is in a position to stop his advertising revenue). Stock risen? Nah! Say the matter at hand was the British Army / RUC and their beatings - going out on a limb would get you credibility with the people. This is different. This is about the incestious rape over a prolonged period of a young girl. Stock rising? No winners here I'm afraid - but if the ATN wants to claim that GA is the winner here; well, GOD HELP US ALL!!!
Depends how seriously anyone takes the ATN. As regards the boyos in the "community" posts, I see it every day. Fellas dandering about with briefcases earning £30k p/a that can hardly spell their own name.
Quote from: Minder on December 23, 2009, 10:58:40 PM
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 23, 2009, 10:51:26 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 23, 2009, 10:29:02 PM
According to the Andytown News Gerrys stock "has risen" in the last week in how he has dealt with this furore. Robin Livingstone has learnt his lesson.
Marty Millar knows his onions (or which organisation is in a position to stop his advertising revenue). Stock risen? Nah! Say the matter at hand was the British Army / RUC and their beatings - going out on a limb would get you credibility with the people. This is different. This is about the incestious rape over a prolonged period of a young girl. Stock rising? No winners here I'm afraid - but if the ATN wants to claim that GA is the winner here; well, GOD HELP US ALL!!!
Depends how seriously anyone takes the ATN. As regards the boyos in the "community" posts, I see it every day. Fellas dandering about with briefcases earning £30k p/a that can hardly spell their own name.
All top boys in former days who are now "Community Workers" .. one of these days, real jobs will come to West Belfast and not growth industries such as community workers or taxi drivers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8429389.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8429389.stm)
It hasn't gone away you know, Gerry.
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/i-moved-immediately-both-to-stop-that-and-to-get-him-dumped-out-of-sinn-fei/
If your brain is well versed in surmising and innuendo, at a superficial glance the Tribune article would look to be contradictory to what G Adams has claimed.
On closer examination, the basic facts contained in the Tribune story just supports Adams' statement as was recorded in the in the rte interview and the Irish Times that G Adams went to Dundalk and got brother to step down from putting his name forward for nomination at the convention.
Irish Times.
Mr Adams denied that Liam was nominated as a potential Sinn Féin candidate in the Dundalk area after the Sinn Féin leader broke ties with his brother. He said that as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated, he moved to ensure that such a thing could not happen.
"I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly. He wasn't a contender, there was no nomination for Liam Adams in the Dundalk area. There was no convention in which his name was put forward, there was no contest in which he was part of."
Quote from: Main Street on December 27, 2009, 02:49:44 PM
If your brain is well versed in surmising and innuendo, at a superficial glance the Tribune article would look to be contradictory to what G Adams has claimed.
On closer examination, the basic facts contained in the Tribune story just supports Adams' statement as was recorded in the in the rte interview and the Irish Times that G Adams went to Dundalk and got brother to step down from putting his name forward for nomination at the convention.
Irish Times.
Mr Adams denied that Liam was nominated as a potential Sinn Féin candidate in the Dundalk area after the Sinn Féin leader broke ties with his brother. He said that as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated, he moved to ensure that such a thing could not happen.
"I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly. He wasn't a contender, there was no nomination for Liam Adams in the Dundalk area. There was no convention in which his name was put forward, there was no contest in which he was part of."
Gerry claimed in the Insight interview to have been estranged from his brother for 15 years. Now we're seeing photos of Gerry at Liam's wedding, photos of Gerry and Liam canvassing together, etc. As the article on Slugger states: 'One source said Gerry Adams regularly visited his brother in Muirhevnamor, staying overnight in his home many times.' All this regular contact and we're supposed to believe that Gerry didn't realise that Liam was a youth worker in Dundalk, just as we're supposed to swallow the notion that Gerry didn't realise for a time that Liam was a youth worker in west Belfast. The more we hear, the more it looks like Gerry was fobbing his niece Aine off with platitudes, while doing nothing meaningful about her allegations, even to the extent of being prepared to allow children in his constituency to consort with a suspected paedophile. That puts Gerry up there with the bishops, in my view.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 27, 2009, 03:41:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 27, 2009, 02:49:44 PM
If your brain is well versed in surmising and innuendo, at a superficial glance the Tribune article would look to be contradictory to what G Adams has claimed.
On closer examination, the basic facts contained in the Tribune story just supports Adams' statement as was recorded in the in the rte interview and the Irish Times that G Adams went to Dundalk and got brother to step down from putting his name forward for nomination at the convention.
Irish Times.
Mr Adams denied that Liam was nominated as a potential Sinn Féin candidate in the Dundalk area after the Sinn Féin leader broke ties with his brother. He said that as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated, he moved to ensure that such a thing could not happen.
"I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly. He wasn't a contender, there was no nomination for Liam Adams in the Dundalk area. There was no convention in which his name was put forward, there was no contest in which he was part of."
Gerry claimed in the Insight interview to have been estranged from his brother for 15 years. Now we're seeing photos of Gerry at Liam's wedding, photos of Gerry and Liam canvassing together, etc. As the article on Slugger states: 'One source said Gerry Adams regularly visited his brother in Muirhevnamor, staying overnight in his home many times.' All this regular contact and we're supposed to believe that Gerry didn't realise that Liam was a youth worker in Dundalk, just as we're supposed to swallow the notion that Gerry didn't realise for a time that Liam was a youth worker in west Belfast. The more we hear, the more it looks like Gerry was fobbing his niece Aine off with platitudes, while doing nothing meaningful about her allegations, even to the extent of being prepared to allow children in his constituency to consort with a suspected paedophile. That puts Gerry up there with the bishops, in my view.
[/b]
Certainly has questions to answer.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 27, 2009, 03:41:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 27, 2009, 02:49:44 PM
If your brain is well versed in surmising and innuendo, at a superficial glance the Tribune article would look to be contradictory to what G Adams has claimed.
On closer examination, the basic facts contained in the Tribune story just supports Adams' statement as was recorded in the in the rte interview and the Irish Times that G Adams went to Dundalk and got brother to step down from putting his name forward for nomination at the convention.
Irish Times.
Mr Adams denied that Liam was nominated as a potential Sinn Féin candidate in the Dundalk area after the Sinn Féin leader broke ties with his brother. He said that as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated, he moved to ensure that such a thing could not happen.
"I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly. He wasn't a contender, there was no nomination for Liam Adams in the Dundalk area. There was no convention in which his name was put forward, there was no contest in which he was part of."
Gerry claimed in the Insight interview to have been estranged from his brother for 15 years. Now we're seeing photos of Gerry at Liam's wedding, photos of Gerry and Liam canvassing together, etc. As the article on Slugger states: 'One source said Gerry Adams regularly visited his brother in Muirhevnamor, staying overnight in his home many times.' All this regular contact and we're supposed to believe that Gerry didn't realise that Liam was a youth worker in Dundalk, just as we're supposed to swallow the notion that Gerry didn't realise for a time that Liam was a youth worker in west Belfast. The more we hear, the more it looks like Gerry was fobbing his niece Aine off with platitudes, while doing nothing meaningful about her allegations, even to the extent of being prepared to allow children in his constituency to consort with a suspected paedophile. That puts Gerry up there with the bishops, in my view.
Lets see Myles, you used a link to a Slugger blog, alluding to some more/new stuff for Gerry to answer.
There is absolutely feck all in that blog.
And now you meander elsewhere using some "source" and a line from a Adams on utv documentary. where his contribution was heavily edited utv documentary.
You feed your prejudices from the cesspits of journalistic standards.
From the unedited interviews on RTE where I have heard Adams speak, there is nothing there to contradict his statements.
Quote from: Main Street on December 27, 2009, 06:54:41 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 27, 2009, 03:41:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 27, 2009, 02:49:44 PM
If your brain is well versed in surmising and innuendo, at a superficial glance the Tribune article would look to be contradictory to what G Adams has claimed.
On closer examination, the basic facts contained in the Tribune story just supports Adams' statement as was recorded in the in the rte interview and the Irish Times that G Adams went to Dundalk and got brother to step down from putting his name forward for nomination at the convention.
Irish Times.
Mr Adams denied that Liam was nominated as a potential Sinn Féin candidate in the Dundalk area after the Sinn Féin leader broke ties with his brother. He said that as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated, he moved to ensure that such a thing could not happen.
"I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly. He wasn't a contender, there was no nomination for Liam Adams in the Dundalk area. There was no convention in which his name was put forward, there was no contest in which he was part of."
Gerry claimed in the Insight interview to have been estranged from his brother for 15 years. Now we're seeing photos of Gerry at Liam's wedding, photos of Gerry and Liam canvassing together, etc. As the article on Slugger states: 'One source said Gerry Adams regularly visited his brother in Muirhevnamor, staying overnight in his home many times.' All this regular contact and we're supposed to believe that Gerry didn't realise that Liam was a youth worker in Dundalk, just as we're supposed to swallow the notion that Gerry didn't realise for a time that Liam was a youth worker in west Belfast. The more we hear, the more it looks like Gerry was fobbing his niece Aine off with platitudes, while doing nothing meaningful about her allegations, even to the extent of being prepared to allow children in his constituency to consort with a suspected paedophile. That puts Gerry up there with the bishops, in my view.
Lets see Myles, you used a link to a Slugger blog, alluding to some more/new stuff for Gerry to answer.
There is absolutely feck all in that blog.
And now you meander elsewhere using some "source" and a line from a Adams on utv documentary. where his contribution was heavily edited utv documentary.
You feed your prejudices from the cesspits of journalistic standards.
From the unedited interviews on RTE where I have heard Adams speak, there is nothing there to contradict his statements.
No? Go check the word 'estranged' in your dictionary - that's how Gerry described his relationship with Liam. A 'permanent bereavement', was another phrase he used, thus suggesting that Liam was as good as dead to him. The photos and accounts now coming out show that the reality was somewhat different. This is an important issue - so long as Gerry is able to claim the pair were estranged, he provides himself with an alibi for doing nothing about Liam's contact with kids. Take that alibi away, and he's guilty of allowing a suspected paedophile unhindered access to children on his own doorstep. You can bury your head up your own arse if you want, but don't expect the rest of us to do the same.
It certainly looks like Gerry was lying through his teeth.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 27, 2009, 07:35:51 PM
No? Go check the word 'estranged' in your dictionary - that's how Gerry described his relationship with Liam. A 'permanent bereavement', was another phrase he used, thus suggesting that Liam was as good as dead to him.
Myles you have already proven that you can't read and listen properly now you revert to old habits, lying.
Adams in the UTV insight interview talked about the abuse
'abuse against Aine, a direct victim,
that child abuse has a whole ripple of other victims, for me its like a permanent bereavement'
get it? abuse experienced is like a permanent bereavement.
Quote from: Main Street on December 27, 2009, 10:11:23 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 27, 2009, 07:35:51 PM
No? Go check the word 'estranged' in your dictionary - that's how Gerry described his relationship with Liam. A 'permanent bereavement', was another phrase he used, thus suggesting that Liam was as good as dead to him.
Myles you have already proven that you can't read and listen properly now you revert to old habits, lying.
Adams in the UTV insight interview talked about the abuse
'abuse against Aine, a direct victim,
that child abuse has a whole ripple of other victims, for me its like a permanent bereavement'
get it? abuse experienced is like a permanent bereavement.
Thank you for that direct quote. Gerry is saying that he's one of the other victims, and that for him it feels like a permanent bereavement. Why? Because it has separated him from his brother. Which bit of that don't you get?
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 28, 2009, 01:21:36 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 27, 2009, 10:11:23 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 27, 2009, 07:35:51 PM
No? Go check the word 'estranged' in your dictionary - that's how Gerry described his relationship with Liam. A 'permanent bereavement', was another phrase he used, thus suggesting that Liam was as good as dead to him.
Myles you have already proven that you can't read and listen properly now you revert to old habits, lying.
Adams in the UTV insight interview talked about the abuse
'abuse against Aine, a direct victim,
that child abuse has a whole ripple of other victims, for me its like a permanent bereavement'
get it? abuse experienced is like a permanent bereavement.
Thank you for that direct quote. Gerry is saying that he's one of the other victims, and that for him it feels like a permanent bereavement. Why? Because it has separated him from his brother. Which bit of that don't you get?
Talk about clutching at straws, that takes the dog biscuit for wild interpretations to fit a prejudice.
Go and listen to the interview,
http://www.u.tv/News/Adams-speaks-on-family-sex-abuse/b9835cff-2f1d-4d3c-ac1b-1beb785513ea (http://www.u.tv/News/Adams-speaks-on-family-sex-abuse/b9835cff-2f1d-4d3c-ac1b-1beb785513ea)
after he mentioned the obvious direct abuse for Aine he mentions how it felt for him.
The brother is not mentioned at all, nor is he alluded to.
Neither does he mention the word 'estrangement' in the interview.
Not only did you get it totally wrong but as I suspected, you purposefully and with malice, got it totally wrong.
Talk about clutching at straws, that takes the dog biscuit for wild interpretations to fit a prejudice.
Go and listen to the interview,
http://www.u.tv/News/Adams-speaks-on-family-sex-abuse/b9835cff-2f1d-4d3c-ac1b-1beb785513ea
after he mentioned the obvious direct abuse for Aine he mentions how it felt for him.
The brother is not mentioned at all, nor is he alluded to.
Neither does he mention the word 'estrangement' in the interview.
Not only did you get it totally wrong but as I suspected, you purposefully and with malice, got it totally wrong.
From the link you so thoughtfully provide:
"I haven't had any contact with him."
He talks about the direct victim of abuse - Aine - then talks about other, indirect victims. He includes himself in this category by saying 'for me, it's like a permanent bereavement'. Why is it like a bereavement? Who has he lost, if not his brother? Taken together with the statement about not having had contact with Liam, the effect is to create the impression of an estrangement, which is exactly the impression Gerry wants to create. Listen to the interview again, but take your head out of your arse first - does wonders for the hearing.
Let's see Myles, you started off yesterday giving a link to some slugger blog as if there was something that contradicted
Adams. As expected the slugger blog provided zilch info to contradict Adams, namely his claim that he went to Dundalk and got his brother to stand down.
Then you slither away to the UTV insight interview, claiming that
'Gerry claimed in the Insight interview to have been estranged from his brother for 15 years'.
As expected,no such statement was made by Adams in the UTV interview
then you went on to twist - 'A 'permanent bereavement', was another phrase he used, thus suggesting that Liam was as good as dead to him'.
To any rational interpretation, Adams is saying the abuse hit him like a permanent bereavement, i.e. something died in the family dynamics forever.
Now after everything you have claimed has been proven a lie you provide another isolated quote attributed to Gerry Adams from the UTV interview
"I haven't had any contact with him."
Adams has never denied meeting his brother on a number of occasions, even in that UTV interview he admitted to having contact with his brother.
Myles, your argument fits just fine to the scoundrel you are, full of lies and perverse interpretations, without any substance.
Quote from: Main Street on December 28, 2009, 02:40:40 PM
Let's see Myles, you started off yesterday giving a link to some slugger blog as if there was something that contradicted
Adams. As expected the slugger blog provided zilch info to contradict Adams, namely his claim that he went to Dundalk and got his brother to stand down.
Then you slither away to the UTV insight interview, claiming that
'Gerry claimed in the Insight interview to have been estranged from his brother for 15 years'.
As expected,no such statement was made by Adams in the UTV interview
then you went on to twist - 'A 'permanent bereavement', was another phrase he used, thus suggesting that Liam was as good as dead to him'.
To any rational interpretation, Adams is saying the abuse hit him like a permanent bereavement, i.e. something died in the family dynamics forever.
Now after everything you have claimed has been proven a lie you provide another isolated quote attributed to Gerry Adams from the UTV interview
"I haven't had any contact with him."
Adams has never denied meeting his brother on a number of occasions, even in that UTV interview he admitted to having contact with his brother.
Myles, your argument fits just fine to the scoundrel you are, full of lies and perverse interpretations, without any substance.
So what do you think 'I haven't had any contact with him' means. That he hasn't spoken to him since the interview started? Since the day before yesterday? Since last week? If he's not estranged from him, why doesn't he lift the phone and make contact with him? The inference is clearly that Adams has severed the link with his brother over the accusations made by Aine - hence his feeling of being bereaved. He feels like he has lost his brother. One more time - get your head out of your hole.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on December 28, 2009, 02:52:39 PM
So what do you think 'I haven't had any contact with him' means. That he hasn't spoken to him since the interview started? Since the day before yesterday? Since last week?
I don't know what you chose to hear Myles, neither do I know the timeline of contact that Adams is talking about.
I heard on the UTV interview Ádams talking about the contact he had with the brother, he has openly admitted the contact he has had.
QuoteIf he's not estranged from him, why doesn't he lift the phone and make contact with him?
Who knows why, maybe he is estranged from his brother but still has had contact, maybe he is finished talking to his brother, maybe his brother is an out and out asshole.
QuoteThe inference is clearly that Adams has severed the link with his brother over the accusations made by Aine - hence his feeling of being bereaved. He feels like he has lost his brother. One more time - get your head out of your hole.
;D
Myles you have lied since you you started posting yesterday
As a chronic liar, you are well capable of swallowing your own delusions and actually believing them 100%. It is the way of liars.
'I don't know what you chose to hear Myles, neither do I know the timeline of contact that Adams is talking about.
I heard on the UTV interview Ádams talking about the contact he had with the brother, he has openly admitted the contact he has had.
Who knows why, maybe he is estranged from his brother but still has had contact, maybe he is finished talking to his brother, maybe his brother is an out and out asshole.
Myles you have lied since you you started posting yesterday
As a chronic liar, you are well capable of swallowing your own delusions and actually believing them 100%. It is the way of liars.'
You don't know the timeline and what's more, you don't really care. If Gerry says something, you'll believe it, no matter if all the evidence points to the contrary. The contact Gerry admitted to having with Liam in that interview was all in the context of helping Aine - he took her to Donegal to meet him, he spoke with Liam to set up a meeting with Aine, etc etc. He certainly doesn't mention that he was at Liam's wedding, nor that he canvassed with him in Dundalk. Only things that cast Gerry in a good light get a mention. Now you're saying you're not sure if they were estranged, maybe they were, maybe they weren't. Again, you're not too bothered. If Gerry says he had no contact, that'll do for you, no questions asked. I was wrong when I said your head was up your arse - apologies for that. It's Gerry's arse I meant.
The following article appeared in last weeks Sunday Times, while I wouldnt be a fan of Liam Clarke, I think he is on the money with this one.
Gerry Adams had plenty of time to prepare for the publication of allegations of child sex abuse against his brother, Liam. Everything he did must be seen in that light. He is a famously cool character and, however difficult this issue is, he had time to think out every word and action in response to the claims.
UTV Insight, which went public with the accusations on December 18, had been in contact with Adams for more than two months in an effort to get an interview with him. They had told him they knew his brother was on the run and that they had conducted an interview with Liam's daughter Áine in which she made detailed allegations of abuse against her father. Nothing was bounced on Adams, there were no surprises.
Adams said he was aware that Áine had claimed the abuse allegedly lasted from 1978, when Áine was four, until 1983. He also knew that towards the end of this period Liam had been separated from Áine's mother, Sally, but had allegedly continued to abuse his daughter during periods of parental access.
Liam has yet to stand trial and is entitled to a presumption of innocence. Aside from this Gerry Adams has said he was aware of Áine's claims since 1987 and his own actions must be seen in that light. "Áine was about 14 at the time. She was only a kid, but she was always a very good wee girl. I just couldn't imagine a child like her making up such a serious allegation" he said.
Adams gave an interview to UTV's Chris Moore last Friday evening but never mentioned that his father, also Gerry, had been a child abuser.
He spoke about his father later in an RTE interview with Tommie Gorman two days later. He must have known, and been advised by his media handlers, that it could move the story on from Liam. It would provide a follow up for the media, give things a new twist and perhaps attract sympathy for himself.
In his Leargas blog, Adams thanks all who have expressed solidarity with him. As he walked home from Mass last Sunday, even before the RTE broadcast, four people approached him to share the fact that child abuse had occurred in their families too.
It was undoubtedly a miserable period for the Sinn Féin President. The introduction of his father's abusive past, while reviving painful memories, did help to move the spotlight away from the immediate political problems which his brother's non appearance in court posed. But considering the time he had to prepare it, there are plenty of unexplained gaps in Adams's story.
Liam was employed as a youth development worker in Beechmount Community Project, also known as "the Blackie" between November 2004 and May 2006. Gerry Adams says that when he found out Liam was working there he persuaded him to leave the job.
Why did this take so long? The project is in Gerry Adams's West Belfast constituency and is within walking distance of both his home and the Sinn Féin press centre on Falls Road. Adams was a frequent visitor to the project. In June 2005 he unveiled a mural which had been painted by youngsters in the youth development project to promote suicide awareness. Republican News carried a picture of the event.
Earlier in June, Liam, describing himself as a Beechmount community worker, was quoted in the local papers promoting a campaign against glue sniffing. A couple of weeks later Liam was again in the papers, this time promoting a cross community youth project to help Romanian orphans. He travelled to Romania and in November 2005 was interviewed again about a group he brought back from there.
Is it really credible that Adams, the local MP, noticed none of these references to his brother? How much credence would a TD in Dublin or an English MP be given if he pleaded ignorance in a similar situation? It would not be considered a private or non political matter if that TD or MP's brother, who was alleged to have abused a child, was leading a youth project near his party offices and visiting East European orphanages.
During 2002-2007 Adams was holding meetings with Áine and her mother to try to resolve the abuse issue. He says he was trying to get Liam to meet Áine, as she had asked, but Áine was not satisfied with his efforts.
"Our Liam can't cope with life and I am trying to get him to meet you but you know he is a coward and he might not want to do that" Áine said, recalling her conversations with Adams.
Liam was being presented as a man under stress when he was in fact running a youth project and getting on with his life. Áine's boyfriend Tony Dahlstrom told UTV that the meetings offered Áine "false hope", adding "they were telling her that they hadn't seen Liam yet."
Many of the meetings took place in the Cultúrlann, an Irish language and cultural centre, just a little further up the Falls Road from Beechmount, where Liam was working.
This is the same approach of endless but unproductive meetings which republicans often use when people complain against those close to them. The families of many of those killed and secretly buried by the IRA were subjected to the same treatment, as were the family of Robert McCartney, the man stabbed by IRA members in 2005.
Áine eventually ended this cycle and went to the police, who also have a lot to answer for, but first let's wind back to Liam Adams' earlier jobs. From 1998 to 2003 he worked part time for a youth project in Clonard Monastery, also close to the Falls Road. Adams was a frequent visitor to Clonard where he attended mass and used some of the priests as go betweens during the peace process. He says that as soon as he was aware Liam was there, he told the "relevant authorities" but the youth club did not confirm this.
Liam had lived and worked in Dundalk for a few years, involving himself in youth work. In 1998, he even launched a public campaign against a child abuse ring he said was operating in the town.
Adams says that he only learned that shortly before his fiftieth birthday in October 1998 his father had abused some of his siblings and that he heard it while trying to resolve Áine's case. Liam moved to Belfast in September. Did Liam tell Adams at this point, just as he was going to work in Clonard?
It should be noted that Liam has denied the allegations against him. His solicitor has also questioned whether he can get a fair trial in Northern Ireland. But this doesn't change the fact that there are many questions for Gerry Adams to answer in this case. There are questions for the police to answer too. They had plenty of time to prepare. Liam, who had lived south of the border for many years, missed a court appearance in November 2008. Yet the Police Service of Northern Ireland failed to get a European arrest warrant, with the result that gardai in Sligo had to let Liam go when he gave himself up last Monday.
The move in Northern Ireland is towards cutting down on red tape and form filling. This case shows that the paperwork may have slipped a little too far down the agenda.
Surely Gerry Adams wasn't right when he said in 1995, eight years after hearing the allegations against Liam, that people should not report child abuse to the police for fear that they might "use it for their own militaristic ends."
Adams was hinting that the intelligence services might use allegation of abuse as an opportunity to gather information on the IRA. If Liam Adams was ever considered an intelligence asset it would be a nightmare scenario for all concerned, but then no scenario looks good for Gerry Adams.
A politician who has this much explaining to do is a liability to everyone associated with him.
http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/03/exclusive-revealed-sf-cover-up-of-liam-adams-senio/
I have always admired Gerry Adams, I have always supported his opinions and decisions politically for the past 20 years. I met him a couple of times canvasing in Cavan back when I was active in SF and I thought highly of him. Initially this story all seemed like UTV putting in the boot for a cheap trick against Gerry but some of what I am reading since has changed my mind. I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches. Adams is a public representative and for him to know his brother was a paedophille and allow him to swan around youth groups etc is a total dereliction of his duty towards people he represents or would like to represent.
I also have a problem morally that Adams would be playing the caring Uncle role to his niece and then be palling up to his "not so estranged" brother as SF do's elsewhere. I have a problem that still Adams appears to be releasing false stories about his brother to the media in an attempt to portray himself as being a martyr and not a villain.
We have SF people in Louth quiting due to his lack of actions and the subsequent mis-information.
Gerry Adams should now resign as SF leader before he does irreparable damage to its reputation. Alternatively, he should be removed. Sadly this is all a terrible, self inflicted, black mark on the legacy of Gerry Adams and I take no enjoyment in saying that.
There is a sad but true cliche in this regard: 'all political careers end in failure'. GA is now on the brink as his credibility beyond west Belfast in its final throes. Just like the Tories and Margaret Thatcher in 1990, I think that GA is due a visit from the men in grey suits within the party to tell him that he has been fatally damaged. Just like an alcoholic, Adams may just be the last to realise that the problem is himself.
PS - in Sinn Fein, should the 'men in grey suits' not be the 'British Government paid community workers in O'Neill's zip-up jackets'? Discuss.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 04, 2010, 09:24:56 PM
I have always admired Gerry Adams, I have always supported his opinions and decisions politically for the past 20 years. I met him a couple of times canvasing in Cavan back when I was active in SF and I thought highly of him. Initially this story all seemed like UTV putting in the boot for a cheap trick against Gerry but some of what I am reading since has changed my mind. I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches. Adams is a public representative and for him to know his brother was a paedophille and allow him to swan around youth groups etc is a total dereliction of his duty towards people he represents or would like to represent.
I also have a problem morally that Adams would be playing the caring Uncle role to his niece and then be palling up to his "not so estranged" brother as SF do's elsewhere. I have a problem that still Adams appears to be releasing false stories about his brother to the media in an attempt to portray himself as being a martyr and not a villain.
We have SF people in Louth quiting due to his lack of actions and the subsequent mis-information.
Gerry Adams should now resign as SF leader before he does irreparable damage to its reputation. Alternatively, he should be removed. Sadly this is all a terrible, self inflicted, black mark on the legacy of Gerry Adams and I take no enjoyment in saying that.
I'd lean towards giving him the benefit of the doubt for now but I think he needs to show his face and answer some questions.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 04, 2010, 09:24:56 PM
I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches.
You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.
I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their 'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?
Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2010, 10:29:27 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 04, 2010, 09:24:56 PM
I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches.
You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.
I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their 'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?
Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.
Adams' account leaks like a sieve. His claims about contacting authorities at Clonard youth club or youth club officials in Dundalk have been contradicted by those same people. He has yet to explain why he permitted his brother to continue working with children for 5 years in west Belfast without doing anything about it. He claims to have made moves to have his brother expelled from Sinn Fein: now we learn Liam Adams was one of the movers and shakers in the party in that area for many years after Adams claims he intervened. Adams claimed that he was estranged from his brother, yet we learn now that no such estrangement took place and that Gerry was still attending Liam's wedding, the christening of his kids, etc. Gerry has been shown to have lied and lied and lied again. He should go.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 04, 2010, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2010, 10:29:27 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 04, 2010, 09:24:56 PM
I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches.
You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.
I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their 'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?
Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.
Adams' account leaks like a sieve. His claims about contacting authorities at Clonard youth club or youth club officials in Dundalk have been contradicted by those same people. He has yet to explain why he permitted his brother to continue working with children for 5 years in west Belfast without doing anything about it. He claims to have made moves to have his brother expelled from Sinn Fein: now we learn Liam Adams was one of the movers and shakers in the party in that area for many years after Adams claims he intervened. Adams claimed that he was estranged from his brother, yet we learn now that no such estrangement took place and that Gerry was still attending Liam's wedding, the christening of his kids, etc. Gerry has been shown to have lied and lied and lied again. He should go.
I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows.
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2010, 10:29:27 PM
You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.
I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their 'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?
Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.
Wow! I must say, I'm hugely impressed by your ability to operate a keyboard, whilst simultaneously sticking an index finger in each ear and singing "La-La-La-La-La" continuously until the nasty people stop saying bad things about your beloved
Fuhrer Party President.
What with you, Jedward and Bertie Ahern's Accountant, who'd have thought Oireland could still produce such talent - and in the face of a Recession, too!
Get yourself an Agent, quick, and start rehearsing for Simon Cowell... ;D
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 04, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows.
Righto, so.
May I take it that if the reason you weren't speaking a member of your family (a brother, in fact) was because you believed that he had raped your four year old neice (and beat up her mother), that you wouldn't raise any objection to his attending a family wedding*, even though there would be bound to be lots of little children there, as well?
And then when questioned about it later, you would "forget" that the brother had been at these family events some time
after you had decided to disown him?
Ever heard the term "GUBU"? ::)
* - Or a Christening, ffs! >:(
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 04, 2010, 11:07:30 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 04, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows.
Righto, so.
May I take it that if the reason you weren't speaking a member of your family (a brother, in fact) was because you believed that he had raped your four year old neice (and beat up her mother), that you wouldn't raise any objection to his attending a family wedding*, even though there would be bound to be lots of little children there, as well?
And then when questioned about it later, you would "forget" that the brother had been at these family events some time after you had decided to disown him?
Ever heard the term "GUBU"? ::)
* - Or a Christening, ffs! >:(
I have not, what the hell is it?
Quote from: Puckoon on January 04, 2010, 11:09:41 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 04, 2010, 11:07:30 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 04, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows.
Righto, so.
May I take it that if the reason you weren't speaking a member of your family (a brother, in fact) was because you believed that he had raped your four year old neice (and beat up her mother), that you wouldn't raise any objection to his attending a family wedding*, even though there would be bound to be lots of little children there, as well?
And then when questioned about it later, you would "forget" that the brother had been at these family events some time after you had decided to disown him?
Ever heard the term "GUBU"? ::)
I have not, what the hell is it?
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+%22GUBU%22%3F
Much obliged.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 04, 2010, 11:07:30 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 04, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows.
Righto, so.
May I take it that if the reason you weren't speaking a member of your family (a brother, in fact) was because you believed that he had raped your four year old neice (and beat up her mother), that you wouldn't raise any objection to his attending a family wedding*, even though there would be bound to be lots of little children there, as well?
And then when questioned about it later, you would "forget" that the brother had been at these family events some time after you had decided to disown him?
Ever heard the term "GUBU"? ::)
* - Or a Christening, ffs! >:(
I would alright but I've sibblings who dont speak about quite a serious matter, they'll probably never get on again but they would attend events like that for each other, they'd buy presents for each others kids and all the rest. Why? because it would cause further rows and annoyance to other family members if they didn't, and they also wouldnt let their differences affect their relationships with their nieces/nephews. So I can completely understand Gerry going to the christianing and even to the wedding, even if he wasn't getting on with the brother.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 04, 2010, 11:15:59 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 04, 2010, 11:07:30 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 04, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows.
Righto, so.
May I take it that if the reason you weren't speaking a member of your family (a brother, in fact) was because you believed that he had raped your four year old neice (and beat up her mother), that you wouldn't raise any objection to his attending a family wedding*, even though there would be bound to be lots of little children there, as well?
And then when questioned about it later, you would "forget" that the brother had been at these family events some time after you had decided to disown him?
Ever heard the term "GUBU"? ::)
* - Or a Christening, ffs! >:(
I would alright but I've sibblings who dont speak about quite a serious matter, they'll probably never get on again but they would attend events like that for each other, they'd buy presents for each others kids and all the rest. Why? because it would cause further rows and annoyance to other family members if they didn't, and they also wouldnt let their differences affect their relationships with their nieces/nephews. So I can completely understand Gerry going to the christianing and even to the wedding, even if he wasn't getting on with the brother.
Right.
So you'd attend a wedding even though you knew that a brother whom you believed to be a child rapist would also be there. I can just about accept* that "keeping up appearances" or maintaining family unity was more important than removing any possibility of risk to other children (e.g. by telling the abuser to make some excuse and stay away).
How do you explain, however, the fact that you subsequently "forgot" that his attendance at some of these events was AFTER you had decided to disown him?
* - Actually I can't. Especially if I were an MP and a leader of a political party, with all the responsibilities which that entails. As well as being accused of being a leading member of an organisation which boasted about maiming and banishing, even killing child abusers in their own community.... ::)
Quote
So you'd attend a wedding even though you knew that a brother whom you believed to be a child rapist would also be there. I can just about accept* that "keeping up appearances" or maintaining family unity was more important than removing any possibility of risk to other children (e.g. by telling the abuser to make some excuse and stay away).
I wouldnt no, but others would. It was the abusers wedding, he's couldnt stay away!
Adams will have to answer for himself, where has he said he forgot about these events anyway? I havent seen that.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 04, 2010, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2010, 10:29:27 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 04, 2010, 09:24:56 PM
I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches.
You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.
I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their 'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?
Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.
Adams' account leaks like a sieve. His claims about contacting authorities at Clonard youth club or youth club officials in Dundalk have been contradicted by those same people. He has yet to explain why he permitted his brother to continue working with children for 5 years in west Belfast without doing anything about it. He claims to have made moves to have his brother expelled from Sinn Fein: now we learn Liam Adams was one of the movers and shakers in the party in that area for many years after Adams claims he intervened. Adams claimed that he was estranged from his brother, yet we learn now that no such estrangement took place and that Gerry was still attending Liam's wedding, the christening of his kids, etc. Gerry has been shown to have lied and lied and lied again. He should go.
As I wrote, there is not much new in the tribune investigation which claims to uncover great holes.
"Adams claimed that he was estranged from his brother, yet we learn now that no such estrangement took place and that Gerry was still attending Liam's wedding,"Estranged does not necessarily mean banished from existance.
Adams has clearly admitted to having contact with his brother right from the beginning in the UTV interview, despite being estranged.
"He claims to have made moves to have his brother expelled from Sinn Fein"Maybe he did make moves but did he claim to have succeeded in having him expelled?
"now we learn Liam Adams was one of the movers and shakers in the party in that area for many years after Adams claims he intervened"You are getting confused again.
Adams claimed he intervened to stop his brother going forward as a candidate.
His brother stood down.
Then Adams claimed that his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth, some anti drug stuff and Adams minimised that.
It would appear that this is the only hole worthy of further examination
"His claims about contacting authorities at Clonard youth club or youth club official etc"The Tribune did not investigate that.
Adams has admitted to that he would do things differently now, the question is what would he like to have done differently.
Adams made a statement to Social Services in 1988 and again to the PSNI in 2002.
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2010, 11:56:01 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 04, 2010, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 04, 2010, 10:29:27 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 04, 2010, 09:24:56 PM
I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches.
You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.
I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their 'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?
Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.
Adams' account leaks like a sieve. His claims about contacting authorities at Clonard youth club or youth club officials in Dundalk have been contradicted by those same people. He has yet to explain why he permitted his brother to continue working with children for 5 years in west Belfast without doing anything about it. He claims to have made moves to have his brother expelled from Sinn Fein: now we learn Liam Adams was one of the movers and shakers in the party in that area for many years after Adams claims he intervened. Adams claimed that he was estranged from his brother, yet we learn now that no such estrangement took place and that Gerry was still attending Liam's wedding, the christening of his kids, etc. Gerry has been shown to have lied and lied and lied again. He should go.
As I wrote, there is not much new in the tribune investigation which claims to uncover great holes.
"Adams claimed that he was estranged from his brother, yet we learn now that no such estrangement took place and that Gerry was still attending Liam's wedding,"
Estranged does not necessarily mean banished from existance.
Adams has clearly admitted to having contact with his brother right from the beginning in the UTV interview, despite being estranged.
"He claims to have made moves to have his brother expelled from Sinn Fein"
Maybe he did make moves but did he claim to have succeeded in having him expelled?
"now we learn Liam Adams was one of the movers and shakers in the party in that area for many years after Adams claims he intervened"
You are getting confused again.
Adams claimed he intervened to stop his brother going forward as a candidate.
His brother stood down.
Then Adams claimed that his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth, some anti drug stuff and Adams minimised that.
It would appear that this is the only hole worthy of further examination
"His claims about contacting authorities at Clonard youth club or youth club official etc"
The Tribune did not investigate that.
Adams has admitted to that he would do things differently now, the question is what would he like to have done differently.
Adams made a statement to Social Services in 1988 and again to the PSNI in 2002.
"Who is so deafe or so blinde as is hee
That wilfully will neither heare nor see?"
John Heywood (1497-1580)
I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Myles Na G and Evil Genius on this. Gerry has Fu*ked up here and the best thing he could do now is just come out with the truth and resign before he pulls the whole of SF down with him. In fairness, I think SF need some new blood at the top anyhow, especially if they want to grow in the South.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 05, 2010, 09:13:26 AM
I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Myles Na G and Evil Genius on this. Gerry has f**ked up here and the best thing he could do now is just come out with the truth and resign before he pulls the whole of SF down with him. In fairness, I think SF need some new blood at the top anyhow, especially if they want to grow in the South.
:o :o :o
Tonights Spotlight, brought to you by Gerry A productions. ;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8451404.stm
'I acknowledged that although we were estranged, I volunteered that I had met him on quite a number of occasions, because I knew that. '
Roughly translated: 'I was able to attend Liam's wedding and the christening of his kids and to go canvassing with him at election time. Apart from that, I shunned him from the moment Aine told me he had raped her'.
Get outta fock, ya lying get!
Reading the Sunday Tribune yesterday it seems that they are hell bent on getting Gerry to come clean about his exact relationship with his brother Liam.
For 3 weeks now, they've been asking the same questions and yesterday it was the editor's turn to ask them.
They're not going to give up easily.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 05, 2010, 09:13:26 AM
I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Myles Na G and Evil Genius on this. Gerry has f**ked up here and the best thing he could do now is just come out with the truth and resign before he pulls the whole of SF down with him. In fairness, I think SF need some new blood at the top anyhow, especially if they want to grow in the South.
he should do the decent thing and resign, the republican movement is bigger than one man. adams has been proven to be a liar.
Fundamentally Adams made a statement to Social Services in 1987 that he claims supported his niece.
Again in 2002 he made another statement to the PSNI in support of his niece.
Once those statements were made, Adams had no control over how they could be used in support of a legal charge against his brother. What cover up is going on there? What part of that is not understood?
There is no special Teflon layer on Gerry Adams that has protected him from the media. Any lawyer scrutinising his behaviour would conclude that those two statements he made are the foundation of his explanation for his actions around the abuse allegations. His brother has always denied the allegations, Adams has always sided with his niece in his legal documented statements.
Quote from: Main Street on January 11, 2010, 07:30:49 PM
Fundamentally Adams made a statement to Social Services in 1987 that he claims supported his niece.
Again in 2002 he made another statement to the PSNI in support of his niece.
Once those statements were made, Adams had no control over how they could be used in support of a legal charge against his brother. What cover up is going on there? What part of that is not understood?
There is no special Teflon layer on Gerry Adams that has protected him from the media. Any lawyer scrutinising his behaviour would conclude that those two statements he made are the foundation of his explanation for his actions around the abuse allegations. His brother has always denied the allegations, Adams has always sided with his niece in his legal documented statements.
But he did have control over his own party and despite Gerry's repeated denials, Liam seems to have played a prominent role in it through all this. He did have the option of making the allegations against Liam known to people in Dundalk and west Belfast who were employing Liam as a youth worker. Gerry says he did, they say he didn't. Even if he did - huge, big if that - why didn't he pursue the matter when he saw that nothing was happening on the back of the information he passed on? Finally, he certainly had control over the company he chose to keep. Despite claiming that he was estranged from Liam as a result of Aine's allegations, he chose to continue normal family and professional relations with an alleged child rapist. Gerry Adams has been exposed as a liar. He has also been exposed as someone who chose to put his own interests and the interests of his political party before the welfare of children potentially at risk from a child abuser. He should hang his head in shame.
Quote from: Main Street on January 11, 2010, 07:30:49 PM
What cover up is going on there? What part of that is not understood?
I haven't been following this on a daily basis, but doesn't this article outline the questions that people are still asking? Or have they been answered?
How the media's failings allow Gerry Adams to rewrite history The Sinn Fein president's account of contacts with his suspected paedophile brother Liam is falling apart. So why do TV and newspapers treat him with kid gloves, asks Suzanne Breen
Tuesday, 5 January 2010
It's a cover-up that rivals anything the Catholic Church could conduct.
While the sins of the bishops who moved paedophile priests from parish to parish are finally catching up with them, Sinn Fein is lying and prevaricating its way out of Liam Adams's involvement in the party. And it's getting away with it.
Sinn Fein said that Liam Adams - wanted by the PSNI on charges of repeatedly raping his daughter Aine Tyrell from the age of four - played a short-lived, minor role in the party.
Louth TD Arthur Morgan claimed "he was never a party officer". Last weekend's Sunday Tribune revealed that was untrue.
Liam Adams was Sinn Fein's most senior officer in Co Louth. He was chairman of the Louth comhairle ceantair in 1996, liaising directly with the national leadership. It's inconceivable Gerry Adams didn't know this.
Gerry Adams said he believed his brother was a paedophile from the moment Aine made her allegations in 1987. Yet 10 years later, he went canvassing with Liam through the streets of Dundalk in the southern general election. Photos show them laughing and smiling. This was at a time when Sinn Fein had previously led us to believe Liam had been expelled from the party and was estranged from Gerry. Would Peter Robinson, Jim Allister or Mark Durkan get away with taking someone they believed to be a paedophile on a canvass? I think not.
Yet Gerry Adams is enjoying an unbelievably easy ride from the media. Other politicians have been pursued for far less. Iris Robinson was hounded over anti-gay comments she made. Her remarks were debated and condemned in countless newspaper pages and radio and television programmes.
While Mrs Robinson's comments appalled all of us who cherish equality and support gay rights, let's remember - they were only words. Iris Robinson didn't bring someone suspected of physically or sexually assaulting gay people with her on a canvass.
And look at what happened Paul Berry. He was immediately suspended by the DUP over allegations that he had a consensual sexual liaison with an adult male in a Belfast hotel room. The media wagon circled and Berry's DUP career was over.
Yet Gerry Adams escapes unexamined and unquestioned. This story isn't being covered by newspapers in Northern Ireland, the Republic or Britain. Our broadcasters are also turning a blind eye. Why?
There are no demands that Gerry Adams put himself forward at a press conference to answer detailed questions from a wide selection of journalists. And there are many questions for him and Sinn Fein to answer because the party's version of events is full of lies, evasions and inaccuracies.
Gerry Adams forgot to tell Chris Moore on UTV that Liam had been in Sinn Fein. That fact was established later by the Sunday Tribune. Gerry Adams then admitted knowing Liam was in the party. When he heard Liam was seeking the Sinn Fein Dail nomination in Louth, Gerry "moved very, very quickly" to have him "dumped" from the party.
The Sunday Tribune can date this nomination to October 1996. Yet eight months after that far from being dumped, Liam accompanied Gerry on a canvass and met the women and children of Dundalk. And five months after that Liam chaired the 40th anniversary commemoration at Edentubber for five IRA men killed in the Border campaign. So 13 months after the date when Gerry claims he first learned Liam was in the party, Liam remained highly respected and highly active in Sinn Fein.
And who doesn't believe that in June 1996, when Liam stood by Martin McGuinness's side as McGuinness cut the ribbon to open the party's new office in Dundalk, that Gerry didn't know Liam was in Sinn Fein. It was a widely publicised event with a photo of McGuinness and Liam appearing in Dundalk's Argus newspaper.
Why isn't the media quizzing Martin McGuinness? McGuiness must be asked if he knew Liam was a suspected paedophile when he posed for those photographs. After all, Gerry had known for almost a decade. Did Gerry not tell Martin and, if he didn't, isn't the Deputy First Minister furious?
At Edentubber in November 1997, Liam Adams stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Sinn Fein's then national chairman Mitchel McLaughlin, whom he introduced as the main speaker. Did Gerry tell Mitchel that he was standing beside an alleged child rapist that day? And if Gerry stayed stum, isn't Mitchel angry?
There are many good people in Sinn Fein, hugely opposed to cover-ups on child abuse. Gerry Adams's untruths and evasions is a disservice to them. His behaviour is certainly not that expected of a long-standing public representative and international statesman.
Besides Liam's role in Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams has other questions to answer. Why did he go to Liam's second wedding when he believed he was a paedophile? Gerry says he told youth projects in west Belfast about Liam when he became aware of his work there. Where is his written record of this and who did he actually speak to? How did Liam work for five years in Clonard Youth Centre - 300 yards from Sinn Fein's Falls Road offices and located in the grounds of the monastery where Gerry worships? As part of their cover-up, Sinn Fein are diverting attention from the hard questions by claiming "these stories are emanating from dissidents". Republican dissidents last year brought murder and mayhem to Northern Ireland and undoubtedly will try to do the same this year. They are responsible for many things. What they can't be blamed for is the alleged rape of Aine Tyrell, for recruiting Liam Adams to Sinn Fein, for promoting him through the ranks, for securing him key jobs working with young people, and for engaging in an extensive cover-up about his political activities.
Local Dundalk newspapers openly detail Liam Adams's Sinn Fein's activities. But blaming the dissidents is part of the Adams leadership's strategy in dealing with its own mess.
It's aimed at turning the media off the story. So far, disgracefully, it seems to be working.
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/how-the-medias-failings-allow-gerry-adams-to-rewrite-history-14622439.html#ixzz0cLReeyPT
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 11, 2010, 10:18:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 11, 2010, 07:30:49 PM
What cover up is going on there? What part of that is not understood?
I haven't been following this on a daily basis, but doesn't this article outline the questions that people are still asking? Or have they been answered?
How the media's failings allow Gerry Adams to rewrite history
The Sinn Fein president's account of contacts with his suspected paedophile brother Liam is falling apart. So why do TV and newspapers treat him with kid gloves, asks Suzanne Breen
Tuesday, 5 January 2010
It's a cover-up that rivals anything the Catholic Church could conduct.
While the sins of the bishops who moved paedophile priests from parish to parish are finally catching up with them, Sinn Fein is lying and prevaricating its way out of Liam Adams's involvement in the party. And it's getting away with it.
Sinn Fein said that Liam Adams - wanted by the PSNI on charges of repeatedly raping his daughter Aine Tyrell from the age of four - played a short-lived, minor role in the party.
Louth TD Arthur Morgan claimed "he was never a party officer". Last weekend's Sunday Tribune revealed that was untrue.
Liam Adams was Sinn Fein's most senior officer in Co Louth. He was chairman of the Louth comhairle ceantair in 1996, liaising directly with the national leadership. It's inconceivable Gerry Adams didn't know this.
Gerry Adams said he believed his brother was a paedophile from the moment Aine made her allegations in 1987. Yet 10 years later, he went canvassing with Liam through the streets of Dundalk in the southern general election. Photos show them laughing and smiling.
This was at a time when Sinn Fein had previously led us to believe Liam had been expelled from the party and was estranged from Gerry. Would Peter Robinson, Jim Allister or Mark Durkan get away with taking someone they believed to be a paedophile on a canvass? I think not.
Yet Gerry Adams is enjoying an unbelievably easy ride from the media. Other politicians have been pursued for far less. Iris Robinson was hounded over anti-gay comments she made. Her remarks were debated and condemned in countless newspaper pages and radio and television programmes.
While Mrs Robinson's comments appalled all of us who cherish equality and support gay rights, let's remember - they were only words. Iris Robinson didn't bring someone suspected of physically or sexually assaulting gay people with her on a canvass.
And look at what happened Paul Berry. He was immediately suspended by the DUP over allegations that he had a consensual sexual liaison with an adult male in a Belfast hotel room. The media wagon circled and Berry's DUP career was over.
Yet Gerry Adams escapes unexamined and unquestioned. This story isn't being covered by newspapers in Northern Ireland, the Republic or Britain. Our broadcasters are also turning a blind eye. Why?
There are no demands that Gerry Adams put himself forward at a press conference to answer detailed questions from a wide selection of journalists. And there are many questions for him and Sinn Fein to answer because the party's version of events is full of lies, evasions and inaccuracies.
Gerry Adams forgot to tell Chris Moore on UTV that Liam had been in Sinn Fein. That fact was established later by the Sunday Tribune. Gerry Adams then admitted knowing Liam was in the party. When he heard Liam was seeking the Sinn Fein Dail nomination in Louth, Gerry "moved very, very quickly" to have him "dumped" from the party.
The Sunday Tribune can date this nomination to October 1996. Yet eight months after that far from being dumped, Liam accompanied Gerry on a canvass and met the women and children of Dundalk.
And five months after that Liam chaired the 40th anniversary commemoration at Edentubber for five IRA men killed in the Border campaign. So 13 months after the date when Gerry claims he first learned Liam was in the party, Liam remained highly respected and highly active in Sinn Fein.
And who doesn't believe that in June 1996, when Liam stood by Martin McGuinness's side as McGuinness cut the ribbon to open the party's new office in Dundalk, that Gerry didn't know Liam was in Sinn Fein. It was a widely publicised event with a photo of McGuinness and Liam appearing in Dundalk's Argus newspaper.
Why isn't the media quizzing Martin McGuinness? McGuiness must be asked if he knew Liam was a suspected paedophile when he posed for those photographs. After all, Gerry had known for almost a decade. Did Gerry not tell Martin and, if he didn't, isn't the Deputy First Minister furious?
At Edentubber in November 1997, Liam Adams stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Sinn Fein's then national chairman Mitchel McLaughlin, whom he introduced as the main speaker. Did Gerry tell Mitchel that he was standing beside an alleged child rapist that day? And if Gerry stayed stum, isn't Mitchel angry?
There are many good people in Sinn Fein, hugely opposed to cover-ups on child abuse. Gerry Adams's untruths and evasions is a disservice to them. His behaviour is certainly not that expected of a long-standing public representative and international statesman.
Besides Liam's role in Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams has other questions to answer. Why did he go to Liam's second wedding when he believed he was a paedophile? Gerry says he told youth projects in west Belfast about Liam when he became aware of his work there. Where is his written record of this and who did he actually speak to?
How did Liam work for five years in Clonard Youth Centre - 300 yards from Sinn Fein's Falls Road offices and located in the grounds of the monastery where Gerry worships?
As part of their cover-up, Sinn Fein are diverting attention from the hard questions by claiming "these stories are emanating from dissidents". Republican dissidents last year brought murder and mayhem to Northern Ireland and undoubtedly will try to do the same this year. They are responsible for many things. What they can't be blamed for is the alleged rape of Aine Tyrell, for recruiting Liam Adams to Sinn Fein, for promoting him through the ranks, for securing him key jobs working with young people, and for engaging in an extensive cover-up about his political activities.
Local Dundalk newspapers openly detail Liam Adams's Sinn Fein's activities. But blaming the dissidents is part of the Adams leadership's strategy in dealing with its own mess.
It's aimed at turning the media off the story. So far, disgracefully, it seems to be working.
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/how-the-medias-failings-allow-gerry-adams-to-rewrite-history-14622439.html#ixzz0cLReeyPT
I guess that after all that, Main Street and the rest of "the usual suspects" will just have to fall back on the old "I saw the name 'Suzanne Breen' and stopped reading" line... ::)
Still, Gerry Adams is only lying about an allegation of child rape. I mean to say, it's not as if he's lying about anything serious, so his constituents in West Belfast can continue to vote for him in their droves, safe in the knowledge that he is dedicating himself 100%, 24/7 towards bringing jobs, houses, schools, and everything necessary for making West Belfast even more attractive than it already is*, without seeking anything in return, other perhaps than a mumbled thanks and maybe the odd pint (when he has time for one, that is)...
Meanwhile, his continuing service to his people surely proves the truth of the old adage: "People get the Politicians they deserve". How wonderful must the people of West Belfast be, in order to blessed by such a paragon as St. Gearoid?
* - Though it is an interesting philosphical point whether even one so wonderful as Adams can improve upon Utopia
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 11, 2010, 10:07:35 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 11, 2010, 07:30:49 PM
Fundamentally Adams made a statement to Social Services in 1987 that he claims supported his niece.
Again in 2002 he made another statement to the PSNI in support of his niece.
Once those statements were made, Adams had no control over how they could be used in support of a legal charge against his brother. What cover up is going on there? What part of that is not understood?
There is no special Teflon layer on Gerry Adams that has protected him from the media. Any lawyer scrutinising his behaviour would conclude that those two statements he made are the foundation of his explanation for his actions around the abuse allegations. His brother has always denied the allegations, Adams has always sided with his niece in his legal documented statements.
But he did have control over his own party and despite Gerry's repeated denials, Liam seems to have played a prominent role in it through all this. He did have the option of making the allegations against Liam known to people in Dundalk and west Belfast who were employing Liam as a youth worker. Gerry says he did, they say he didn't. Even if he did - huge, big if that - why didn't he pursue the matter when he saw that nothing was happening on the back of the information he passed on? Finally, he certainly had control over the company he chose to keep. Despite claiming that he was estranged from Liam as a result of Aine's allegations, he chose to continue normal family and professional relations with an alleged child rapist. Gerry Adams has been exposed as a liar. He has also been exposed as someone who chose to put his own interests and the interests of his political party before the welfare of children potentially at risk from a child abuser. He should hang his head in shame.
You appear to gloss over the major significance of his two legal witness testimony statements.
Giving testimony on 2 occasions that supported his niece (effectivly ratting out his own brother) puts perspective to his conduct.
"Despite claiming that he was estranged from Liam as a result of Aine's allegations, he chose to continue normal family and professional relations with an alleged child rapist. Gerry Adams has been exposed as a liar".Listen to the UTV interview again and listen to what Adams said,
He said he has been in contact with his brother.
"he chose to continue normal family and professional relations"I do not know what passes for "normal" family relationship in your life.
You are surmising from what has appeared in a newspaper account about Gerry´s contact with his brother as "normal" family relationship.
Gerry Adams made statements ratting out his brother when the abuse first became knowledge and again 8 years ago. Long long before the shit hit the fan in recent weeks and in all that that time, down through the years, the shit could have hit the fan anytime. Personally, considering that in context , I would be astounded by anyone regarding that as normal in a family relationship or that relationship being normal family relationship.
As regards professional contact, there is not much substance to the Tribune account about the brother joining a canvass, it might mean something or it might mean jack.
As I have already mentioned, Adams did clearly minimise the role that his abuser brother played in SF. I don't know what significance that has.
Fundamentally, whatever contact Gerry Adams had with his brother, who denied all abuse charges, was that of a brother who made statements against him that could be used in a prosecution and who would stand in the dock and give witness.
Essentially, that is what any legal eagle will tell you. Those oath bound statements defined his position and his relationship.
Sorry for posting this on 2 threads :
Ian Paisley Jr asks if Gerry Adams broke Assembly rules
Liam Adams is wanted by the PSNI over sex abuse claims
Ian Paisley Jr has asked an Assembly committee to investigate if Gerry Adams breached its rules by failing to act about his brother's alleged sex abuse.
The DUP assembly member said he had submitted "very detailed questions" to Assembly Ombudsman Tom Frawley.
Mr Frawley will assess if the complaint merits being passed to the Assembly's Committee on Standards and Privileges.
Mr Adams' brother Liam is wanted by the PSNI over claims that he sexually abused his daughter in the early 1980s.
The Sinn Fein president said he found out about the allegations levelled against his brother in 1987 and said he had brought Liam's daughter Aine Tyrell, then aged 14, to confront her father.
Mr Paisley said he had written to the committee with a list of complaints about whether Gerry Adams' "conduct and association was appropriate as a member of the Assembly".
Although he was chair for a very short time, it was so unmemorable that I completely forgot about it
Arthur Morgan
Sinn Fein TD
Timeline: Adams' family allegations
"I want to know if Mr Adams breached the code of conduct," he said.
Gerry Adams has faced questions about the timescale of when he informed the authorities about the allegations about his brother Liam and when he was expelled from Sinn Fein.
Mr Adams has said he moved quickly in 1997 to expel his "estranged" brother, who should "never have been allowed" to have worked as a party official in County Louth.
Louth Sinn Fein TD Arthur Morgan has previously said that although Liam Adams was a party member, he was never an officer.
However, Liam Adams did serve as chair of the party's Louth district executive for two months in the late 1990s before stepping down for personal reasons.
Mr Morgan told Thursday's Irish News that this had "slipped his mind".
"Although he was chair for a very short time, it was so unmemorable that I completely forgot about it," he told the paper.
Mr Morgan also said he had no knowledge of the allegations against Liam Adams.
How can Gerry Adams have broke any Stormont code of conduct? At the time of the allegations there was no Stormont, the DUP are really clutching at straws here.
This really belongs here:
From Adams' blog:
http://leargas.blogspot.com/
Tuesday, January 12, 2010
A Family Trauma Jan 12th 10
Just before Christmas this Blog noted that I might deal with 'some of the events in the life of my clan and in my own life ... at some other time.' In recent weeks some elements of the media have been critical of my handling of the issues arising from the allegations of sexual abuse against my brother Liam by his daughter Áine. Some have alleged cover-ups by me and by Sinn Féin. Some political opponents have also very cynically sought to exploit this personal family trauma in a most offensive way. Some have tried to compare my family's efforts to deal with the trauma of child abuse, including the ordeal of discovering that our father was an abuser, with other issues in the political process at this time. This is disgraceful and deeply upsetting to our family.
There was no cover-up. No evasion. The fact is that it was one of my family members who, when we first became aware of the allegations, accompanied Áine and her mother to the Social Services. A complaint was also made by Áine and her mother to the RUC. Therefore the agencies with legal responsibility for dealing with these allegations were informed. There was no attempt to conceal or disguise or cover-up the allegations against Liam Adams. Subsequently, I confronted Liam Adams on Áine's accusation which he denied. I believed Áine. After that he, and then separately Áine left the country for some considerable time.
When Liam Adams came back, although we were estranged, we were, as I made clear in a part of the Insight interview which UTV did not broadcast, in contact on a number of occasions and I continued to raise this issue with him. When Áine came back to live in Ireland I offered to go to the police with her. I offered to go public with her and I told her I would support her in whatever action she might decide. Áine told me she wanted Liam to admit what he had done. There commenced a very long and difficult process in which I tried to create the circumstance for him to do precisely what his daughter wanted. He failed to do so.
I received professional advice during this period. I was told by those with experience in helping victims of physical, sexual, domestic or psychological abuse that, unless the victim is a minor, it is not for anyone else to presume to take decisions for a victim or to publicly identify a victim. That the rights of the victim are vital and should be respected. This has guided me throughout these last 20 years in dealing with the allegations against Liam Adams, and then the shock of learning that my father was an abuser.
When Áine went to the PSNI I made a statement to the police against my brother and in support of Áine's case. The criticism levelled against me is that Liam Adams was a member of Sinn Féin. While I was aware that he was in Dundalk - as I have said publicly I met him there –I was not aware of his membership of the party until I learned that his name was being mentioned as a possible candidate. When I heard this I contacted him directly. His name did not go forward and as a result of my efforts he later left the party.
I want to make it clear that republicans in Dundalk and senior party colleagues were not aware of the allegations against Liam Adams. The simple fact is in my opinion he should not have been a member of Sinn Féin.
I have also acknowledged on a number of occasions publicly that I have regrets about how I dealt with aspects of this issue. I say this, with hindsight and in the context of today's standards. However, it is important to state that for me this was first and foremost a private family matter in which all of us were reeling from the revelations around our father and some of us were trying to provide support and closure for those abused by him and for Áine. I did my best.
All of this has been and is extremely difficult and distressing and painful for me and my wider family. We decided to publicise the abuse in our family in the hope that our experience will assist other victims and survivors cope with what may have happened to them, and to demonstrate that it is possible to survive abuse.
As of now, despite the public attention, the case against Liam Adams has not proceeded. It is distressing that despite repeated assurances from the PSNI that the Gardaí had been fully informed, that a European Arrest Warrant was not ready when he handed himself into Gardaí in Sligo. It now seems that this is still several weeks away. The sooner this happens and the matter is brought before the courts the better. My niece Áine deserves justice and has my ongoing support.
Posted by Gerry Adams at 6:09 PM
Right, at least the whole situation is now cleared up :
Sinn Fein clarify Liam Adams role amid sex abuse claims
Liam Adams was still involved in party work more than three years after formally leaving, Sinn Fein has said.
He is facing allegations that he abused his daughter when she was a child.
Mr Adams, brother of party president Gerry Adams was said to have left the party in 1997. However, a Sinn Fein statement said he held a number of positions in Belfast after 2000. Gerry Adams has been under pressure to explain his brother's role in the party since the allegations arose.
In a statement on Friday, Sinn Fein said it had reviewed its documentation and held discussions with its members and leadership in a bid to establish the extent of Liam Adams involvement in the party in the aftermath of the revelations.
It said the process had taken a number of weeks but added that information from a period in the 1990s was "not complete".
"We have established that Louth Sinn Fein and the national party leadership, apart from Gerry Adams, was unaware of the allegation against Liam Adams," the statement said.
Gerry Adams has previously confirmed that he found out in 1987 about allegations made by his niece that she had been sexually abused by Liam Adams while she was a young child.
The Sinn Fein president said that he "moved" to expel Liam Adams from the party ten years later, when he found out that his brother was seeking to run as a candidate for his party in the Irish parliamentary elections.
In Friday's statement, Sinn Fein also confirmed that Liam Adams served as chair of the party's Louth district executive for two and a half months in 1996.
In addition they said he held the position of secretary for one month before this time. He was also nominated as education officer but he did not take up this position.
When the allegations about Liam Adams first appeared in in UTV documentary late last year, Arthur Morgan, a Sinn Fein member of the Irish parliament for Louth, said Mr Adams had never been a party officer.
This week Mr Morgan said Mr Adams true role had "slipped his mind".
During the years 1998 to 2006, Liam Adams held various positions as a youth worker in a number of organisations in west Belfast.
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/sinn-fein-changes-its-story-on-liam-adams-again/
Quote from: Minder on January 15, 2010, 04:40:44 PM
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/sinn-fein-changes-its-story-on-liam-adams-again/
Ok - maybe it's not cleared it up once and for all then.
Quote from: orangeman on January 15, 2010, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 15, 2010, 04:40:44 PM
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/sinn-fein-changes-its-story-on-liam-adams-again/
Ok - maybe it's not cleared it up once and for all then.
It has for some.
I suppose there are morons who have not a clue what an affidavit is or chose to turn a blind eye to its legal significance in this saga.
Mary Lou got a good grilling by Seamus McKee this evening on Radio Ulster.
Quote from: Main Street on January 15, 2010, 05:14:11 PM
I suppose there are morons who have not a clue what an affidavit is or chose to turn a blind eye to its legal significance in this saga.
Do you want to expand on that?
Donagh/Ulick is ploughing away over on Slugger on this very matter as we speak
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on January 14, 2010, 04:00:54 PM
This really belongs here:
From Adams' blog:
http://leargas.blogspot.com/
Tuesday, January 12, 2010
A Family Trauma Jan 12th 10
Just before Christmas this Blog noted that I might deal with 'some of the events in the life of my clan and in my own life ... at some other time.'... Blah, blah, blah... more blah, blah, blah... and finally, some more blah, blah, blah.
Posted by Gerry Adams at 6:09 PM
I must say, Oul Grisly is very good at answering his own questions. It's just a pity he's not so good at answering when it's eg the Sunday Tribune or Slugger asking the questions. Amongst these questions, the latest one is how, if Gerry moved to have Liam "dumped" from SF in Louth (some time before Liam actually ceased working for them there, btw), he (Gerry) was unaware that Liam subsequently worked for, even chaired, a local SF cumann in Gerry's very own West Belfast constituency! :o
Anyhow, here's at least one Republican who's not afraid to speak his mind over this matter:
http://thepensivequill.am/2010/01/cynical-versus-clinical.html?showComment=1262908346648#c6031042939036527354
Sunday, January 3, 2010
Cynical Versus Clinical Today, as last Sunday and the Sunday before that, Suzanne Breen, the Northern Editor of the Sunday Tribune, has been clinically tearing to shreds the protective web of deceit that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams has been cynically weaving around himself since it was first suggested that he played a major role in promoting and covering for his brother Liam. Liam Adams has been at the centre of a public controversy over charges that he raped his daughter for a number of years, commencing when she was an infant. Gerry Adams has publicly stated that he believes Liam is a paedophile who did seriously sexually assault his own daughter but has denied either covering for him or promoting him within the party structure.
Each week Breen brings new knowledge to public light. Each week Adams is found scurrying for the nearest fig leaf which immediately becomes translucent the minute he touches it, leaving what he seeks to conceal exposed. His parrying simply does not bear up to the thrusts from Breen, his explanations increasingly seen as self serving; more to do with safeguarding his political career while displaying haughty indifference to the rape victim at the centre of the story. Like an old champion, long past it, but desperately trying to hold onto his title by foul means not fair, he flails under the withering assault of a determined investigative reporter. She nimbly scores with each punch; he clumsily hopes he can gouge her in the eye on the blind side of the audience.
There is no doubt whatsoever that contrary to what Gerry Adams has maintained, his brother Liam was a reasonably senior official within Sinn Fein for an extended tenure in the period after Gerry Adams, the party's national leader, concluded that Liam was a child rapist. Far from being made a persona non grata he was made the person in charge of Sinn Fein in County Louth. Breen's coverage of the matter is one firm bulwark against investigative journalism in Ireland going for its swansong. If society depended on the Irish Times to keep it informed of major anomalies in the accounts of leading politicians it would quickly discover the 'paper of record' to have a pauper's record – poor.
Last week the Observer columnist Nick Cohen made the chilling observation that in speaking publicly about his own family background of sexual abuse and physical violence Gerry Adams had bared a soul few thought he possessed. That Cohen strikes a chord with what he says and Adams does not is down to the Catholic politician's long history of soulless political dishonesty which has been routinely employed to mask any flaw which might call into question the great leader's greatness. The ruthless jettisoning of all principle to facilitate organised lying now means that as much credence is being given to the Sinn Fein president's denials of cover up as it is to his gainsaying of IRA membership.
There is little to be surprised at in the Adams stance. As the song goes about the tree at the waterside, he shall not be moved. What began as a long war strategy has become a long leader phenomenon, without parallel in Western Europe according to press reports. The strong man of African and Central American politics is the model that most resembles the Adams reign.
It is beyond question that he has demonstrated a tenacious ability to hold on to the reins of power in a changing world where virtually every thing else has changed except the leader of Sinn Fein. Most other party leaders across the globe have moved off the scene to make way for fresh faces and new ideas. But not in Sinn Fein where permanent leadership seems to be an article of faith.
The cult of personality in Sinn Fein, assiduously cultivated over the years, is so strong that not a mute of discord has been heard from within the ranks. Its senior officials including elected representatives seem prepared to go down in history, not as activists who for political-strategic reasons defended the IRA against allegations of robbing banks ok killing and kidnapping those it took umbrage to, but as swindlers on a par with Irish bishops who thought that safeguarding the political career of one man should trump the need of a raped and tormented woman for justice.
It is understandable that the party president, lacking any moral compass, is quite willing to sacrifice what remains of the party's credibility and the reputations of many of his colleagues in his bid to ensure that 'I'm alright Jack.' Their fate matters not to him. Why the indifference is not reciprocated from those with so much to lose is something that cult researchers will ply their trade to.
Oh, and here's another one:
http://thepensivequill.am/2010/01/end-of-adams-era.html?showComment=1263514269128#c4211505907292311685
Quote from: Main Street on January 15, 2010, 05:14:11 PM
I suppose there are morons who have not a clue what an affidavit is or chose to turn a blind eye to its legal significance in this saga.
Good Grief! Grisly's Apologist-in-Chief on this Board using the words "moron", "not a clue" and "blind" in this context is beyond irony, beyond parody, beyond even Iris Robinson's presenting herself to the electorate as a credible politician.
Thank you, MS, for reminding me that just when I thought politics in Ireland couldn't get any more absurd, I was wrong, way, way wrong... :D
Am less and less impressed with Adams Gerard as this unravels. He is looking like the bishops at this stage. He should do the decent thing and stop bullsh*ting. A bit of honesty wouldn't go amiss whether it costs him the top post or not. Jees! between Peter Robinson, the Bishop of Galway and Adams clinging to power for dear life, is all pretty obnoxious.
Can't believe the virus tread has over 100 pages, while this one has hardly any. Does anyone else think that the gerry issue is bigger than the virus. I would rather have her as a neighbour than our boy liam.
Quote from: gerry on January 15, 2010, 09:20:13 PM
Can't believe the virus tread has over 100 pages, while this one has hardly any. Does anyone else think that the gerry issue is bigger than the virus. I would rather have her as a neighbour than our boy liam.
There are certain posters on here that if Gerry Adams said horses balls were onions would believe him.
Quote from: Minder on January 15, 2010, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: gerry on January 15, 2010, 09:20:13 PM
Can't believe the virus tread has over 100 pages, while this one has hardly any. Does anyone else think that the gerry issue is bigger than the virus. I would rather have her as a neighbour than our boy liam.
There are certain posters on here that if Gerry Adams said horses balls were onions would believe him.
He told me they were scallions. Is that not true?
Quote from: Minder on January 15, 2010, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: gerry on January 15, 2010, 09:20:13 PM
Can't believe the virus tread has over 100 pages, while this one has hardly any. Does anyone else think that the gerry issue is bigger than the virus. I would rather have her as a neighbour than our boy liam.
There are certain posters on here that if Gerry Adams said horses balls were onions would believe him.
Has always been like that with Sinn Fein supporters down the years. Sin Fein and the Provos could do no wrong acccording to them.
I wonder how many more lies gerry has/will tell us. I guess that there was manys a man found in the ditch with hole in him for doing alot less.
Quote from: hardstation on January 15, 2010, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 15, 2010, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: gerry on January 15, 2010, 09:20:13 PM
Can't believe the virus tread has over 100 pages, while this one has hardly any. Does anyone else think that the gerry issue is bigger than the virus. I would rather have her as a neighbour than our boy liam.
There are certain posters on here that if Gerry Adams said horses balls were onions would believe him.
I wouldn't put it past pog....
ha, think you got me very wrong there HS
I see this thread was near the bottom of page 2... wonder would it have been if it was a unionist or a bishop... St Gerry ::) Is like you daren't mention this to some people but open season on others.
I did add something... seems ok to mention about unionists and bishop scandals to a lot of people but not this one. Has anyone else noticed that?
Quote from: longrunsthefox on January 16, 2010, 11:30:08 PM
I see this thread was near the bottom of page 2... wonder would it have been if it was a unionist or a bishop... St Gerry ::) Is like you daren't mention this to some people but open season on others.
In fairness most people with a bit of sense know Gerry and Sinn Fein have been lying through their teeth and are making things worse with their endless contradictory statements. There are some that don't want to believe it, fair enough. They should try and get a gig in the Andytown News.
Thanks Minder... I agree with that.
hardstation.. f**k off.. you're like a stalker at times.
Quote from: hardstation on January 16, 2010, 11:42:56 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on January 16, 2010, 11:41:44 PM
hardstation.. f**k off.. you're like a stalker at times.
And you're like a broken alarm clock.
Good, hope I'm really irritating you :-*
;D
(http://election.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Picture-37.png)
His grand niece claiming she was raped by someone. Think this was in the Sunday World last year.
Quote from: hardstation on January 16, 2010, 11:55:53 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 16, 2010, 11:36:41 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on January 16, 2010, 11:30:08 PM
I see this thread was near the bottom of page 2... wonder would it have been if it was a unionist or a bishop... St Gerry ::) Is like you daren't mention this to some people but open season on others.
In fairness most people with a bit of sense know Gerry and Sinn Fein have been lying through their teeth and are making things worse with their endless contradictory statements. There are some that don't want to believe it, fair enough. They should try and get a gig in the Andytown News.
I agree too. Gerry will fade into the background on this one. I reckon he is happy enough to do so.
Gerry fade into the background ??? Don't think so.
He's the head man and will find it difficult to do that.
He'll have to be encouraged IF he goes.
http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/17/exclusive-gerry-adams-ignored-two-more-rape-victim/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/sf-must-address-abuse-if-it-wants-credibility/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/gerry-adams-reveals-his-brother-was-party-treasure/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/liam-adams-was-never-dumped-from-sinn-fein/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/adams-was-told-about-what-x-had-done-to-me/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/grand-niece-of-provo-legend-endured-horrific-sexua/
Anybody here still think that Gerry Adams is fit to be an elected representative?
if that's true there's more than adams needs to go.
Quote
The victim made a statement to the PSNI almost two years ago and a police file has been forwarded to the Public Prosecution Service. "I'm disgusted that X remains a Sinn Féin elected representative and I can't understand why X hasn't been prosecuted," she says.
Why hasn't he been prosecuted or even questioned?
Does anyone know who X is? PM please?
Why don't they name them it's obviously going to be well known soon.
Quote from: Zapatista on January 17, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
Does anyone know who X is? PM?
Why don't they name them it's obviously going to be well known soon.
aye was thinking that when I was reading it, anyone who knows him will surely know who they're on about, there's enough information given.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 17, 2010, 07:28:46 PM
if that's true there's more than adams needs to go.
Quote
The victim made a statement to the PSNI almost two years ago and a police file has been forwarded to the Public Prosecution Service. "I'm disgusted that X remains a Sinn Féin elected representative and I can't understand why X hasn't been prosecuted," she says.
Why hasn't he been prosecuted or even questioned?
Maybe he is being protected. Or maybe they are waiting on Scapaticci returning to root out all the touts. ::)
M is who I referred to earlier in this thread. It's very interesting that these stories are coming to light now...
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 17, 2010, 07:07:42 PM
http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/17/exclusive-gerry-adams-ignored-two-more-rape-victim/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/sf-must-address-abuse-if-it-wants-credibility/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/gerry-adams-reveals-his-brother-was-party-treasure/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/liam-adams-was-never-dumped-from-sinn-fein/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/adams-was-told-about-what-x-had-done-to-me/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/grand-niece-of-provo-legend-endured-horrific-sexua/
Anybody here still think that Gerry Adams is fit to be an elected representative?
Why, what are you suggesting he has done?
Quote from: Ulick on January 17, 2010, 08:39:37 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 17, 2010, 07:07:42 PM
http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/17/exclusive-gerry-adams-ignored-two-more-rape-victim/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/sf-must-address-abuse-if-it-wants-credibility/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/gerry-adams-reveals-his-brother-was-party-treasure/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/liam-adams-was-never-dumped-from-sinn-fein/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/adams-was-told-about-what-x-had-done-to-me/
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jan/17/grand-niece-of-provo-legend-endured-horrific-sexua/
Anybody here still think that Gerry Adams is fit to be an elected representative?
Why, what are you suggesting he has done?
Nothing?
Quote from: Zapatista on January 17, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
Does anyone know who X is? PM please?
Great idea - another thread with 40 pages of PM requests.
:P
Quote from: orangeman on January 11, 2010, 05:03:05 PM
Reading the Sunday Tribune yesterday it seems that they are hell bent on getting Gerry to come clean about his exact relationship with his brother Liam.
For 3 weeks now, they've been asking the same questions and yesterday it was the editor's turn to ask them.
They're not going to give up easily.
It was clear from their campaign that they had a story ready and this week they let it go after Gerry clarified his knowledge or lack of it.
It doesn't make good reading.
Fox mightn't be far off the mark.
http://thepensivequill.am/2010/01/lying-for-big-lad.html
worth a read.
Gerry's calling 'foul':
http://leargas.blogspot.com/2010/01/response-to-sunday-tribune.html (http://leargas.blogspot.com/2010/01/response-to-sunday-tribune.html)
Oops - Sunday Tribune "might" be right :
SF suspend member on abuse claim
A member of Sinn Fein has been suspended from the party over allegations of child abuse.
The Sunday Tribune newspaper carried a report from a woman who claimed she was abused when she was 10 years old.
Sinn Fein confirmed that a member had been suspended without prejudice from party membership and activities.
The Tribune also featured an interview with another woman who claimed she had been repeatedly raped by a prominent IRA man in west Belfast.
In the interview, the young woman claimed she had been brought face-to-face with the man and that the IRA had offered her a counsellor.
She said she believed this would be a charade, as it would be an IRA-friendly counsellor.
Welfare
She claimed the man had been put under house arrest but she was later told he had "escaped". She believed that he was helped to move to Donegal.
A spokesman for Sinn Fein said the party denied any allegation of a "cover up" by the party.
"Our position on these matters is crystal clear. At all times the welfare of children is paramount. The people who should investigate allegations of abuse are the statutory authorities charged with this task - the PSNI/Gardai and the Social Services.
"If an allegation of sexual abuse is made against a Sinn Fein member, the party ensures that the matter is reported to the relevant statutory authorities.
"The member is suspended from the party without prejudice. This is in contrast to other political parties which have allowed members against whom allegations are being made to remain politically active until the completion of the legal process.
The Sinn Fein president's brother Liam Adams is facing sex abuse allegations
"A Sinn Fein representative is suspended without prejudice from party membership and all party activities. including work as a public representative."
He said the suspension of the party member was activated after the police began their investigation into "an allegation of historic abuse".
Estranged
The fresh allegations have put further pressure on Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams who is already facing tough questions over his handling of sex charges against his brother.
Liam Adams faces allegations that he abused his daughter and was forced from the party in County Louth in 1997.
But it has emerged he held a number of positions elsewhere after 2000.
Gerry Adams has been forced to defend claims he did not do enough to inform the authorities when he found out his estranged brother was working in youth groups in west Belfast and the Irish Republic over the last 15 years.
He was also forced to explain how he did not know his brother worked for Sinn Fein in his own parliamentary constituency.
Mr Adams said his political opponents were using the issue in an attempt to undermine him.
He said he also felt constrained from fully defending himself by a need to protect the privacy of family members and by a desire not to prejudice any future court proceedings against his brother.
The Tribune claimed that Mr Adams had been aware of the latest allegations from the two women but had not acted.
But the Sinn Fein spokesman categorically denied that and said the party was considering legal action against the newspaper for allegations "founded on innuendo and sensationalism and not facts".
"Gerry Adams and the party refute absolutely any allegation of covering up instances of abuse," he said.
Brigid Meehan according to today's Irish News.
Quote from: orangeman on January 18, 2010, 10:35:57 AM
Oops - Sunday Tribune "might" be right :
Something stinks with the Tribune and Irish News stories on Briege Meehan and it's not just that they seem to have betrayed the victims right to anonymity. The infighting in the Meehan family has been well know for years, with many things alleged about all the siblings and the victims husband (a quick Google search reports him and her exiled from the north in 2002). There have been rumours of a long running feud between Briege Meehan and the victims brother (who has been appearing fairly frequently in Suzanne Breen articles recently). Add to this that the allegations have only been made after the death of Martin Meehan, there seems to be a lot of competing motivations on all sides of the story - maybe to many to allow for unbiased reporting.
I'm not saying the victims allegations are false but that the whole unsavoury incident would have more chance of being sorted out away from the limelight, as the victim had requested.
Like most people I assumed the abuser must be a man when I read the Truibune story and a shocking story it is.
Quote from: Silky on January 18, 2010, 12:24:59 PM
Like most people I assumed the abuser must be a man when I read the Truibune story and a shocking story it is.
most people assume its a man - usually right though !
suzanne breen has lost focus due to her hell bent crusade against adams !
what was he supposed to do ?
he is not the police force and secondly sf taking any action first would put the victims case let alone the accused's case into jeopardy.
theres a lot of accusations in the world out there but no one (police force) can do a thing without proof/evidence first (well since 1994 thats the case in the six counties)
looks like suzanne breens vendetta has clouded her objectivity and rationality.
she should go back to spending time drinking tea and plotting cougarisms along with iris !! :D
Quote from: Ulick on January 18, 2010, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: orangeman on January 18, 2010, 10:35:57 AM
Oops - Sunday Tribune "might" be right :
Something stinks with the Tribune and Irish News stories on Briege Meehan and it's not just that they seem to have betrayed the victims right to anonymity. The infighting in the Meehan family has been well know for years, with many things alleged about all the siblings and the victims husband (a quick Google search reports him and her exiled from the north in 2002). There have been rumours of a long running feud between Briege Meehan and the victims brother (who has been appearing fairly frequently in Suzanne Breen articles recently). Add to this that the allegations have only been made after the death of Martin Meehan, there seems to be a lot of competing motivations on all sides of the story - maybe to many to allow for unbiased reporting.
I'm not saying the victims allegations are false but that the whole unsavoury incident would have more chance of being sorted out away from the limelight, as the victim had requested.
Yeah your spot on big problems with this family for years and will be interesting to see outcome but at least they have rubbished Breens story that they informed Adams
The stuff on Briege Meehan in the Irish News is horrific but how could she get fair trial now. Anyway she is on 'sick leave'... sounds familiar that one.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 18, 2010, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: Silky on January 18, 2010, 12:24:59 PM
Like most people I assumed the abuser must be a man when I read the Truibune story and a shocking story it is.
most people assume its a man - usually right though !
suzanne breen has lost focus due to her hell bent crusade against adams !
what was he supposed to do ?
he is not the police force and secondly sf taking any action first would put the victims case let alone the accused's case into jeopardy.
theres a lot of accusations in the world out there but no one (police force) can do a thing without proof/evidence first (well since 1994 thats the case in the six counties)
looks like suzanne breens vendetta has clouded her objectivity and rationality.
she should go back to spending time drinking tea and plotting cougarisms along with iris !! :D
She has had a vendetta against the Shinners and Adams for years does nobody ever wonder how she gets all the scoops from the micro Republican groups
Quote from: Ulick on January 18, 2010, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: orangeman on January 18, 2010, 10:35:57 AM
Oops - Sunday Tribune "might" be right :
Something stinks with the Tribune and Irish News stories on Briege Meehan and it's not just that they seem to have betrayed the victims right to anonymity.
Ah right, it's all the fault of the Tribune and the IN, then? ::)
You know, you're like the boy who farts in a crowded lift, then tries to point the finger at the man standing next to him - even when everyone else in the lift knows damned fine where the smell is coming from...
Quote from: Ulick on January 18, 2010, 11:53:38 AM
The infighting in the Meehan family has been well know for years, with many things alleged about all the siblings and the victims husband (a quick Google search reports him and her exiled from the north in 2002).
Really? That must be another thing poor Gerry never knew about, if his flowery tributes at the funeral of Martin M are anything to go by:
"But the light came back into his [Martin Meehan's] life when, in 1985, he married Briege and found his anam chara. They went on to have Bronagh. Together, Briege and Martin weathered many storms and were standard bearers for Sinn Féin in more than one election. Martin was elected as a local councillor in Antrim Council. And Briege continues to represent us on Newtownabbey Council. These were pioneering electoral initiatives in constituencies dominated by unionism.
Martin was a resolute advocate of Sinn Féin's peace strategy. He spoke forcefully and passionately at the special Ard Fheis earlier this year in support of our position on engaging with the police...
...Both he and Briege were stalwarts of our struggle. Just days before Martin died, I had occasion to phone Briege. She had just been told by the PSNI that she was under death threat. In the week before he died Martin was told of threats from those purporting to be republicans. On the night before his death he was outside his home looking for bombs after a number of bomb threats. I certainly don't want to raise the temperature on this issue but I think it's a disgrace that this family should be victimised by those who have no popular support whatsoever and not even the pretence of Martin's and Briege's records of activism"http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/21635
Or this tribute from Brian Tumelty:
"There have been attacks on our activists by so-called republicans who have no vision. These people targeted Briege Meehan in the days before Martin Meehan died; in the days after Martin was buried, they threatened Briege. These people aren't fit to lace Briege Meehan's boots!"http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/24223
Makes them sound like Belfast's very own Waltons...
Quote from: Ulick on January 18, 2010, 11:53:38 AM
There have been rumours of a long running feud between Briege Meehan and the victims brother (who has been appearing fairly frequently in Suzanne Breen articles recently).
Ah, so it's a "feud" is it? Funny, but for me, that word conjures up visions of rival mafia gangs in Sicily, or the Earps and the Clantons at the OK Corral, or LA Gangs fighting to control the drugs trade etc. You know, two groups battling over territory or money etc, with each of them equally responsible for the dispute.
Seems to me to be rather different from the anger of someone who believes his sister was horribly abused by someone who used her [alleged abuser] position in the Community, her contacts and her outward "respectability" to avoid being held accountable for her (alleged) vile and disgusting crimes.
P.S. Of course the brother will have been featuring "fairly frequently" in SB's articles. She is a journalist researching a story and he is a source who might be expected to know what's going on in that story. You might as well wonder why Jesus Christ seems to appear "fairly frequently" in the New Testament...
Quote from: Ulick on January 18, 2010, 11:53:38 AM
Add to this that the allegations have only been made after the death of Martin Meehan, there seems to be a lot of competing motivations on all sides of the story - maybe to many to allow for unbiased reporting.
"...after the death of"? MM died over a year ago. If this were something which they daren't print during his life for some reason, why wouldn't they have printed it soon after? Why would any newspaper sit on a story for 16 months, during which time any other media outlet could break it?
Or do you discount the rather more obvious explanation that the Tribune has been working on this for some time, but it took the revelations by Aine Tyrell to break before the alleged victim of Breige Meehan was prepared to co-operate fully with the Tribune etc?
Then again, that explanation wouldn't permit you to make snide insinuations as to the "bias" [
sic] of SB and the Tribune...
Quote from: Ulick on January 18, 2010, 11:53:38 AM
I'm not saying the victims allegations are false
Nope, not even your neck is sufficiently brazen to allow that claim - though I've no doubt you would if you could. Still, if oblique references to the possibility of falsehood are all you can get away with, then that's what you have to work with...
Quote from: Ulick on January 18, 2010, 11:53:38 AM
but that the whole unsavoury incident would have more chance of being sorted out away from the limelight, as the victim had requested.
And, of course, that is your only concern over this matter, the best interests of the victim... ::)
Sorry,
Donagh Ulick, but you're not fooling anyone. :o
P.S. It wasn't you went round West Belfast yesterday morning, hoovering up every copy of the Tribune in the local newsagents? If it was, I hope that buying newspapers on behalf of SF made a refreshing change from selling them for them! :D
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
Ah right, it's all the fault of the Tribune and the IN, then? ::)
What is? If you are going to start this please be clear about what you are alleging I am saying.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
Really? That must be another thing poor Gerry never knew about, if his flowery tributes at the funeral of Martin M are anything to go by:
Makes them sound like Belfast's very own Waltons...
Irrelevant.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
Ah, so it's a "feud" is it? Funny, but for me, that word conjures up visions of rival mafia gangs in Sicily, or the Earps and the Clantons at the OK Corral, or LA Gangs fighting to control the drugs trade etc. You know, two groups battling over territory or money etc, with each of them equally responsible for the dispute.
Well it has involved bomb attacks on peoples houses and other allegations I would rather not mention here.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
Seems to me to be rather different from the anger of someone who believes his sister was horribly abused by someone who used her position in the Community, her contacts and her outward "respectability" to avoid being held accountable for her (alleged) vile and disgusting crimes.
That thought also occurs to me but I wouldn't like to say anyone could prove it either way at this moment.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
P.S. Of course the brother will have been featuring "fairly frequently" in SB's articles. She is a journalist researching a story and he is a source who might be expected to know what's going on in that story. You might as well wonder why Jesus Christ seems to appear "fairly frequently" in the New Testament...
The implication she is relying too much on one source. This will obviously lead to credibility problems such as the denial by the victim in the Irish News today that she connected Gerry Adams - maybe if Breen was not so reliant on her single source she wouldn't have gotten this wrong in yesterdays Tribune.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
"...after the death of"? MM died over a year ago. If this were something which they daren't print during his life for some reason, why wouldn't they have printed it soon after? Why would any newspaper sit on a story for 16 months, during which time any other media outlet could break it?
Or do you discount the rather more obvious explanation that the Tribune has been working on this for some time, but it took the revelations by Aine Tyrell to break before the alleged victim of Breige Meehan was prepared to co-operate fully with the Tribune etc?
Who knows? You certainly don't and neither do I because Breen's investigations are never transparent.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
Then again, that explanation wouldn't permit you to make snide insinuations as to the "bias" [sic] of SB and the Tribune...
Snide insinuations as to the "bias"? That's laughable. I've been critical of Breen's style of investigation for years as I have also been of other sensationalist journalists who don't let the facts they garner get in the way of a 'good story'.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PMNope, not even your neck is sufficiently brazen to allow that claim - though I've no doubt you would if you could. Still, if oblique references to the possibility of falsehood are all you can get away with, then that's what you have to work with...
Then like Breen you are engaging in pure speculation without having the facts to back up your claim. As an irrelevant personal attack on me, this paragraph is irrelevant to the topic but does highlight the somewhat low standards to which you seem to abide.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
And, of course, that is your only concern over this matter, the best interests of the victim... ::)
Again you have no evidence to assume any different so see previous comment.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
Sorry, Donagh, but you're not fooling anyone. :o
No, a man would have to get up early in the morning to fool you, eh? Though why a man would bother I don't know.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 18, 2010, 01:10:39 PM
P.S. It wasn't you went round West Belfast yesterday morning, hoovering up every copy of the Tribune in the local newsagents? If it was, I hope that buying newspapers on behalf of SF made a refreshing change from selling them for them! :D
Again another personal attack on me for no reason. What exactly was the point of your post?
This page is to much work to read.
Quote from: Zapatista on January 18, 2010, 08:53:56 PM
This page is to much work to read.
eg thinks every post has to be like a dissertation.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 08:57:14 PM
eg thinks every post has to be like a dissertation.
true. I stopped reading all that a long time ago as by the time i finished reading the post and wanted respond to one point I had fiveteen points to respond to. It got tiresome.
It's a pity as I'd like to know what his view is but its too much work.
His constant use of quotation marks when he isn't quoting gets annoying too.
Quote from: Zapatista on January 18, 2010, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on January 18, 2010, 08:57:14 PM
eg thinks every post has to be like a dissertation.
true. I stopped reading all that a long time ago as by the time i finished reading the post and wanted respond to one point I had fiveteen points to respond to. It got tiresome.
It's a pity as I'd like to know what his view is but its too much work.
His constant use of quotation marks when he isn't quoting gets annoying too.
He's the only poster on this board I don't read. I manage maybe 2 or 3 lines sometimes but then I skip on, skiping through the replies to him as well. Too much work!
PRESS RELEASE - STATEMENT FROM RAPE CRISIS CENTRE RE- SINN FEIN RESPONSE TO THE SUNDAY TRIBUNE.
The Rape Crisis And Sexual Abuse Centre is making the statement following allegations that Suzanne Breen and the Sunday Tribune have manipulated victims of sexual abuse.
The Rape Crisis Centre has known Suzanne Breen for over twenty years and can vouch for her honesty sincerity and courage as an investigative reporter.
She has done tremendous work in allowing survivors of rape and sexual abuse to tell their stories and has exposed cover-ups by those in power. She has always been sensitive professional and caring in her dealings with victims.
We have no reason whatsoever to believe that either Suzanne or the Sunday Tribune has manipulated any survivor of abuse.
We have spoken with Ms Cahill, grand niece of Joe Cahill (who has requested that her first name does not be printed) She is an intelligent professional woman, and she has given us her absolute assurance that it was she who contacted Suzanne Breen to bring her abuse, and the failure of the Republican Movement to deal with it appropriately to public attention.
Ms Cahill has asked us to provide her statement below, to clarify the issue.
"Over the last number of weeks, I watched Aine Tyrell give a very brave and very moving account of the alleged abuse she suffered. I also watched a number of media interviews with members of Sinn Fein afterwards. I was horrified.
I thought long and hard about telling my story. It wasn't an easy decision. I had every right to do so. I was most certainly not manipulated into giving any interview. I approached the Northern Editor, Suzanne Breen, of my own accord. I wanted other victims to know they were not on their own in cases like this, and I wanted them to know it is possible to recover. I know from the response that I received subsequently from other victims, that it was the right thing to do.
During the interview, Suzanne Breen helped me feel comfortable, spent considerable time with me, and respected and supported me. She acted in a truly ethical and moral fashion. The article printed was an accurate and truthful account of what happened me.
Sinn Fein has stated that Gerry Adams refutes the allegations I made. Gerry Adams first spoke to me about my case in August 2000. I had meetings with him at which I expressed my feelings on the way I was being treated until 2006. I have no interest in attacking Gerry Adams, I have been fond of him at times in my life, he was sympathetic at times. However, I stand by my assertion that my meetings with him were pointless, because there was no resolution
Unbeknownst to the IRA and Sinn Fein, I attended counselling during a good part of their investigation, which I arranged with a counsellor who I knew to be free from republican control. Thankfully that counsellor kept notes. Those notes authenticate my account. Medical records also verify parts of the story.
Sinn Fein has said it is considering suing the Sunday Tribune. If Sinn Fein is challenging the truth of my story, let them sue me. I thank the Sunday Tribune for interviewing me in a highly sensitive way – and for the support I received afterwards. To date, since my story was printed, no-one from Sinn Fein has contacted me to offer the same.
My surname is not important. It does not define me, but it does show that there was no hierarchy of victims. There seems to be however, a hierarchy when it came to perpetrators of abuse."
Ms ******* Cahill.
The Rape Crisis Centre would also like to add that we have seen copies of documents held by The Sunday Tribune and can verify that no other victim of abuse was manipulated. It would appear to the Rape Crisis Centre that survivors of rape and abuse are being manipulated, as are most of the Northern Press however, Suzanne Breen and the Sunday Tribune are not the culprits.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 19, 2010, 06:52:25 PM
PRESS RELEASE - STATEMENT FROM RAPE CRISIS CENTRE RE- SINN FEIN RESPONSE TO THE SUNDAY TRIBUNE.
The Rape Crisis And Sexual Abuse Centre is making the statement following allegations that Suzanne Breen and the Sunday Tribune have manipulated victims of sexual abuse.
The Rape Crisis Centre has known Suzanne Breen for over twenty years and can vouch for her honesty sincerity and courage as an investigative reporter.
She has done tremendous work in allowing survivors of rape and sexual abuse to tell their stories and has exposed cover-ups by those in power. She has always been sensitive professional and caring in her dealings with victims.
We have no reason whatsoever to believe that either Suzanne or the Sunday Tribune has manipulated any survivor of abuse.
We have spoken with Ms Cahill, grand niece of Joe Cahill (who has requested that her first name does not be printed) She is an intelligent professional woman, and she has given us her absolute assurance that it was she who contacted Suzanne Breen to bring her abuse, and the failure of the Republican Movement to deal with it appropriately to public attention.
Ms Cahill has asked us to provide her statement below, to clarify the issue.
"Over the last number of weeks, I watched Aine Tyrell give a very brave and very moving account of the alleged abuse she suffered. I also watched a number of media interviews with members of Sinn Fein afterwards. I was horrified.
I thought long and hard about telling my story. It wasn't an easy decision. I had every right to do so. I was most certainly not manipulated into giving any interview. I approached the Northern Editor, Suzanne Breen, of my own accord. I wanted other victims to know they were not on their own in cases like this, and I wanted them to know it is possible to recover. I know from the response that I received subsequently from other victims, that it was the right thing to do.
During the interview, Suzanne Breen helped me feel comfortable, spent considerable time with me, and respected and supported me. She acted in a truly ethical and moral fashion. The article printed was an accurate and truthful account of what happened me.
Sinn Fein has stated that Gerry Adams refutes the allegations I made. Gerry Adams first spoke to me about my case in August 2000. I had meetings with him at which I expressed my feelings on the way I was being treated until 2006. I have no interest in attacking Gerry Adams, I have been fond of him at times in my life, he was sympathetic at times. However, I stand by my assertion that my meetings with him were pointless, because there was no resolution
Unbeknownst to the IRA and Sinn Fein, I attended counselling during a good part of their investigation, which I arranged with a counsellor who I knew to be free from republican control. Thankfully that counsellor kept notes. Those notes authenticate my account. Medical records also verify parts of the story.
Sinn Fein has said it is considering suing the Sunday Tribune. If Sinn Fein is challenging the truth of my story, let them sue me. I thank the Sunday Tribune for interviewing me in a highly sensitive way – and for the support I received afterwards. To date, since my story was printed, no-one from Sinn Fein has contacted me to offer the same.
My surname is not important. It does not define me, but it does show that there was no hierarchy of victims. There seems to be however, a hierarchy when it came to perpetrators of abuse."
Ms ******* Cahill.
The Rape Crisis Centre would also like to add that we have seen copies of documents held by The Sunday Tribune and can verify that no other victim of abuse was manipulated. It would appear to the Rape Crisis Centre that survivors of rape and abuse are being manipulated, as are most of the Northern Press however, Suzanne Breen and the Sunday Tribune are not the culprits.
Hmmm. In post #249,
Donagh Ulick attempted to belittle/smear/denigrate Suzanne Breen and the Tribune's reporting of the allegations around Adams, by a calculated piece of spin and insinuation - all from a purported position of concern for
Sinn Fein's credibility er, the unfortunate victim , particularly her requirement for anonymity, as follows:
"Something stinks with the Tribune and Irish News stories on Briege Meehan and it's not just that they seem to have betrayed the victims right to anonymity. The infighting in the Meehan family has been well know for years, with many things alleged about all the siblings and the victims husband (a quick Google search reports him and her exiled from the north in 2002). There have been rumours of a long running feud between Briege Meehan and the victims brother (who has been appearing fairly frequently in Suzanne Breen articles recently). Add to this that the allegations have only been made after the death of Martin Meehan, there seems to be a lot of competing motivations on all sides of the story - maybe to many to allow for unbiased reporting.
I'm not saying the victims allegations are false but that the whole unsavoury incident would have more chance of being sorted out away from the limelight, as the victim had requested."
Care to question the motives, objectivity and accuracy of the Rape Crisis and Sexual Abuse Centre now,
Donagh Ulick? ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 19, 2010, 07:09:26 PM
Hmmm. In post #249, Donagh Ulick attempted to belittle/smear/denigrate Suzanne Breen and the Tribune's reporting of the allegations around Adams, by a calculated piece of spin and insinuation - all from a purported position of concern for Sinn Fein's credibility er, the unfortunate victim , particularly her requirement for anonymity, as follows:
"Something stinks with the Tribune and Irish News stories on Briege Meehan and it's not just that they seem to have betrayed the victims right to anonymity. The infighting in the Meehan family has been well know for years, with many things alleged about all the siblings and the victims husband (a quick Google search reports him and her exiled from the north in 2002). There have been rumours of a long running feud between Briege Meehan and the victims brother (who has been appearing fairly frequently in Suzanne Breen articles recently). Add to this that the allegations have only been made after the death of Martin Meehan, there seems to be a lot of competing motivations on all sides of the story - maybe to many to allow for unbiased reporting.
I'm not saying the victims allegations are false but that the whole unsavoury incident would have more chance of being sorted out away from the limelight, as the victim had requested."
Care to question the motives, objectivity and accuracy of the Rape Crisis and Sexual Abuse Centre now, Donagh Ulick? ::)
Eh, have we finished with Suzanne Breen? Yesterday you were saying I was making snide insinuations or something about her creditability when today it has emerged that:
- she identified one of the victims of abuse against her wishes,
- falsely alleged that one of the alleged victims was raped/submitted to sexual abuse
- never followed up on any of the allegations,
- incorrectly alleged that Adams was informed of the abuse,
- incorrectly alleged that the abuser is still a SF official
- didn't disclose that the most high profile dissident republican in Belfast sat in on her interview with the alleged victim
- didn't disclose that that dissident republican brought the story to her
- never questioned the role of the PSNI, RUC and Social Services in these matters
Now I know you haven't lived in Ireland for quite a bit of time, so I can overlook your obvious little faux pas such as someone taking all the copies of the ST from the newsagents in West Belfast, as excusable particularity when you are picking up tittle tattle from OWC.
However how do you evaluate the behaviour of the paragon of virture and professionalism that is Suzanne Breen in light of these matters? On the face of it, it now seems my scepticism regarding Breen is well founded.
Sunday Tribune statement in response to PSF
Sinn Fein has claimed that the Sunday Tribune, in its coverage of the sex abuse cover-up in the republican movement, is engaged in a campaign to smear the party and its president Gerry Adams. This is simply untrue. We would pursue any political party and its leader with equal vigour given the information we have unearthed.
In relation to last Sunday's edition and Sinn Fein's allegation of manipulation of one of two victims who spoke to our Northern Editor Suzanne Breen, we categorically stand by our story and our treatment of the abuse survivors involved.
It is being claimed by Sinn Fein and by one of the women, whose identity was not revealed in the Sunday Tribune, that Mr Adams did not know of the abuse she suffered as a child at the hands of a Sinn Fein elected representative. This is directly at odds with the information we were given and we have proof of this.
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother who stated in writing that Gerry Adams had been personally informed about the allegations of sexual and physical abuse against an elected Sinn Fein member over two years ago.
Ms Breen subsequently interviewed the victim at length in the presence of her brother and a photographer. The claim that Gerry Adams knew of the abuse was repeatedly made by both the victim and her brother at this meeting which took place on Wednesday January 5 2010.
The victim offered to pose for photographs and photographs were taken in front of a wall mural.
In follow-up telephone conversations before the publication of the article in the Sunday Tribune, the story, as it would appear in the newspaper, including the allegations against Gerry Adams, was read to both the victim and her brother. They both agreed it was an honest and accurate account of the interview.
Last Saturday, January 16 2010, the victim, through the solicitors Madden and Finucane, claimed she had never given permission for the interview or allegations to be used. Although consent was freely given by the victim, the Sunday Tribune respected her decision to withdraw consent for her identity to be revealed and ran the story without identifying her.
The other abuse victim, the grand niece of Joe Cahill, has issued a statement to the Sunday Tribune confirming that she was not manipulated into giving an interview.
She said: "Sinn Fein has stated that Gerry Adams refutes the allegations I made. Gerry Adams first spoke to me about my case in August 2006. I had meetings with him at which I expressed my feelings on the way I was being treated until 2006. I eventually ended the interviews because they were going nowhere and I believed they were pointless.
"Sinn Fein has said it is considering suing the Sunday Tribune. If Sinn Fein is challenging the truth of my story, let them sue me. I thank the Sunday Tribune for interviewing me in a highly sensitive way – and for the support I received afterwards. To date, since my story was printed, no-one from Sinn Fein has contacted me to offer the same. I am also making a statement later today to the Rape Crisis Centre on this issue."
No sign of the solicitors letter from the victim Myles? I guess that clearly shows what your agenda is ::)
Quote from: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 09:14:26 PM
No sign of the solicitors letter from the victim Myles? I guess that clearly shows what your agenda is ::)
I lifted that from Slugger, so send your complaints that way if you don't mind.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 19, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 09:14:26 PM
No sign of the solicitors letter from the victim Myles? I guess that clearly shows what your agenda is ::)
I lifted that from Slugger, so send your complaints that way if you don't mind.
Then you couldn't have missed it as its on the same blog, indeed the letter has been there all day and the Tribune statement added later. BTW, would a link or summary not have done so there would be room for discussion here without having to scroll through all of that?
Quote from: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 19, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 09:14:26 PM
No sign of the solicitors letter from the victim Myles? I guess that clearly shows what your agenda is ::)
I lifted that from Slugger, so send your complaints that way if you don't mind.
Then you couldn't have missed it as its on the same blog, indeed the letter has been there all day and the Tribune statement added later. BTW, would a link or summary not have done so there would be room for discussion here without having to scroll through all of that?
That bit's fair comment. The rest isn't. You had already included many of the points from the solicitor's letter in your post above. I pasted in the Tribune statement to balance that.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 19, 2010, 09:33:42 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 19, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 09:14:26 PM
No sign of the solicitors letter from the victim Myles? I guess that clearly shows what your agenda is ::)
I lifted that from Slugger, so send your complaints that way if you don't mind.
Then you couldn't have missed it as its on the same blog, indeed the letter has been there all day and the Tribune statement added later. BTW, would a link or summary not have done so there would be room for discussion here without having to scroll through all of that?
That bit's fair comment. The rest isn't. You had already included many of the points from the solicitor's letter in your post above. I pasted in the Tribune statement to balance that.
So you did see the letter before you posted the statement? You boys, shheshh... :D
But you didn't counter my points or comment on the Tribune statement. How was I to know you were aiming the statement at me?
It's quite obvious now Breen lost the run of herself and has let her personal agenda cloud her work. The ST statement does little to change salvage her credibility.
As for your posting of Eileen Calder's character reference - what was that about? Do you think it appropriate for the head of a body such as the RCC to be wading into this to support someone who denied a victim her right to anonymity? Is that not a conflict of interest?
The Tribune statement contradicts what the victim has claimed - she says she didn't give permission for the story on sexual abuse to be published, the Tribune maintains that Breen kept the woman informed of exactly what they were about to run with. If the Tribune statement is true, then Breen's integrity is intact. The testimonial from the RCC suggests that Breen has a track record of dealing with abuse victims with sensitivity and professionalism. This is supported by the other victim, Joe Cahill's grand niece. Contrast with the way the abuse victims have been treated by the republican movement in general and Gerry Adams in particular.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 19, 2010, 10:15:55 PM
The Tribune statement contradicts what the victim has claimed - she says she didn't give permission for the story on sexual abuse to be published, the Tribune maintains that Breen kept the woman informed of exactly what they were about to run with. If the Tribune statement is true, then Breen's integrity is intact. The testimonial from the RCC suggests that Breen has a track record of dealing with abuse victims with sensitivity and professionalism. This is supported by the other victim, Joe Cahill's grand niece. Contrast with the way the abuse victims have been treated by the republican movement in general and Gerry Adams in particular.
Sorry are you replying to me this time? The Tribune statement doesn't nothing to dispute the claim that they denied the victim her right to anonymity or that they or Breen followed up on any of the allegations. That is the clincher. They have used this poor woman to sell a few more papers and further Breen's agenda and career. A very low move by anyones standards and supports what I have been saying about her for years.
Some of the stuff alledged about this suspended councillor is just pure evil, if its all true I hope she gets locked up for a long time but what puzzles me is how did she become a councillor in the first place if these allegations were hanging over her, if what some people are saying the rumours have been about for years yet she is still selected by Sinn Fein and elected by the public to her post, even tonight she is still listed among the councillors on the Sinn Fein website.
I must admit I knew little about Martin Meehan and did a bit of you-tubing and googling for the last hour on him but Gerry Adams graveside oration, below, in 2007 gives an insight into him and his wife and the high esteem they were both held within republican ranks.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/21635 (http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/21635)
Quote from: Ulick on January 19, 2010, 11:11:46 PM
The Tribune statement doesn't nothing to dispute the claim that they denied the victim her right to anonymity or that they or Breen followed up on any of the allegations. That is the clincher. They have used this poor woman to sell a few more papers and further Breen's agenda and career. A very low move by anyones standards and supports what I have been saying about her for years.
In the years since Breen reported the following, perhaps,
Donagh Ulick?
http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2005/nov/13/known-ira-men-cleared-up-gangrape-scene-claims-rap/
Known IRA men cleared up gangrape scene, claims Rape Crisis chiefThere is growing concern in the North about threats and interference by Community Restorative Justice members
(by Suzanne Breen)
THE North's Rape Crisis and Sexual Abuse Centre hears stories of brutal assaults every week but this one was particularly horrific. "It was the gang rape of a young woman, " says the centre's codirector Eileen Calder.
"The perpetrators' families were associated with the Provisional IRA and CRJ (Community Restorative Justice).
Known IRA men were seen cleaning up the scene.
"These people did their utmost to prevent this young woman reporting the crime to police. Crown counsel told the victim he wouldn't be willing to raise the actions of the IRA and CRJ unless she made arrangements to leave the country afterwards."
Calder is alarmed at reports that the British government is about to fund CRJ which operates 14 schemes in nationalist areas across the North. In 2003, CRJ secured almost 1.4m, over a three-year period, from Atlantic Philanthropies . . . US billionaire Chuck Feeney's charity.
That money ends in March so CRJ has applied for state funding. On paper, CRJ seems a great idea, dealing with 1,700 cases in the past year, and presenting itself as resolving conflicts between the perpetrators and victims of local crime.
A stated aim is to reduce 'punishment' attacks. Some CRJ members have a history of paramilitary involvement, such as Harry Maguire, convicted of the 1988 murder of two British Army corporals at an IRA funeral.
CRJ is often seen as an 'alternative police force'. But a Sunday Tribune investigation has heard serious concerns about its activities from a range of organisations and individuals. Two west Belfast families claim CRJ members were intimidatory, and reinforced IRA threats against their relatives.
The Sunday Tribune contacted CRJ headquarters but no-one was available to respond to the allegations.
Eileen Calder of the Rape Crisis and Sexual Abuse Centre stresses she's not antirepublican: "We supported the campaign to end the stripsearching of IRA women prisoners. I've stood on a platform beside Sinn Fein's Bairbre de Brun supporting republican women's right to march in Belfast city centre. But I have to speak out on this.
"At best, CRJ adopt a wellmeaning but ham-fisted approach on rape and sexual abuse with which they aren't qualified to deal. They've hampered cases by interfering with evidence which meant the perpetrators weren't brought to court.
"At worst, they've threatened women and attempted to cover up crimes committed by those with IRA, Sinn Fein or CRJ connections. Allowing such people power is like letting the lunatics run the asylum."
Another professional says CRJ once brought a rapist and victim together in one room:
"The woman felt it was worse than being raped."
Calder is even more concerned about the funding of similar schemes in loyalist areas: "It's scary imagining the likes of Johnny Adair, or worse, dealing with rape and child abuse."
Marie Brown of Foyle Women's Aid says CRJ in Derry should address only non-serious crime, and nothing as complex as domestic violence: "We pointed out to CRJ that years of training is needed for that . . . it can't be picked up overnight. We unsuccessfully tried to dissuade them from handling such cases."
Even if well-intentioned, CRJ can exacerbate situations: "An ex-prisoner, arriving at the door and threatening a man who is beating his wife, can make things worse. The CRJ person departs and the woman is left with a partner perhaps even angrier than before. In one case where CRJ was involved, the woman went on to attempt suicide."
Brown says CRJ once stated it would refer cases to Women's Aid only if it promised not to involve the police: "We said we couldn't do that, it's the woman's choice.
It's unfair telling women not to contact police when republican men can contact them for insurance claims in road accidents."
She says CRJ can interfere in individuals' private lives:
"In one case, CRJ visited a woman whose daughter was having an affair with a married man. That wasn't CRJ's business, and it was sexist to land at the door of the easy target . . . the single woman . . . and not the married man."
SDLP policing spokesman, Alex Attwood, says after a planning application in Andersonstown was refused "someone who didn't like it tried to use restorative justice muscle to get local people, whose legitimate objections had been upheld, to change their minds."
Two west Belfast families make grave allegations against CRJ. Jane Dorrian's son Bernard (22), a paranoid schizophrenic, admits previous alcohol and drugs' abuse and joyriding. "Bernard needs help, not threats, " says his mother.
In May, the IRA gave Bernard 24 hours to leave the country. His mother says he left home but later returned for his belongings. She claims threats were then made by a CRJ member, whose name is known to the Sunday Tribune:
"X told me Bernard had been seen at the house and, if it happened again, I'd have to get out too."
Dorrian says another CRJ member, whose name is also known to this newspaper, made further threats. "Y told me twice on the phone that, if I didn't leave my home, a 300strong picket would be outside the door."
Victor Notorantonio from Ballymurphy says: "Our family has no love for police but we'd be happier dealing with them any day than with CRJ."
He says a CRJ member, whose name is known to the Sunday Tribune, called his family to a meeting at which two other community activists . . . an ex-IRA prisoner and a Sinn Fein representative whose names are also known to this newspaper . . . were present.
Notorantonio's son Frank (18) and his nephew Billy (21) were given 24 hours to leave the country. "They wanted me to sign a form saying I wouldn't shelter my son. I told them they could wreck my house and burn my car, but the boys were going nowhere.
"Billy used to work in a call centre but is too scared to go in now. Frank still works but I drive him everywhere. Walking is too dangerous."
Anthony McIntrye, a former IRA prisoner opposed to violence by mainstream and dissident republicans, says CRJ began as a good idea: "It had an element of independence . . . and some of those involved are genuine people . . .
but it's been largely colonised by the Provos."
The SDLP believes restorative justice schemes work well elsewhere but adequate safeguards don't yet exist in the North. It maintains such schemes shouldn't be funded until Sinn Fein signs up to policing. It raised these concerns at Downing Street last week.
The SDLP suspects that, to secure IRA decommissioning, the British government has already promised Sinn Fein funding for CRJ. The government denies this. The Northern Ireland Office (NIO) has issued draft guidelines CRJ would need to endorse to secure potential funding. The SDLP dismisses these as inadequate.
They allow for an internal complaints' system, rather than an independent statutory one, says Alex Attwood:
"The police can be investigated by the Police Ombudsman but if someone's rights are abused by a CRJ member they're meant to go higher up in CRJ to complain, which could be going from the frying pan into the fire."
There's an inspection role for the Criminal Justice Inspectorate. "But the inspector is already busy dealing with numerous other criminal justice institutions and could offer only minimal overview, " says Attwood.
"In every other area of public policy since the Agreement, the British government has maximised human rights' protection. This is the only area where it's in reverse.
"Giving enormous power without enormous accountability only leads to abuse.
We've seen that before with the RUC; it mustn't happen now with restorative justice.
We need new legislation offering proper safeguards."
Attwood says CRJ's shoestring image is wrong: "In one part of west Belfast alone, CRJ has applied for state funding of almost £320,000 for a year.
This nails the notion of a lowlevel, low-key operation. This is serious money that will have a serious impact." The Rape Crisis and Sexual Abuse Centre says it has an annual budget of only £63,000.
According to NIO draft guidelines, restorative justice schemes "must satisfy themselves as to the suitability of staff. . .". The SDLP wants more rigorous screening. In 2000, it was reported that a CRJ and IRA member, whose name is known to this newspaper, raped a leading republican's two nieces. The IRA subsequently ordered him out of the North.
At the time, CRJ said in such cases it contacted social services, and knew they then contacted police, which CRJ had "no difficulty with". But Attwood claims the allegations were actually never passed to police "which hardly inspires confidence in CRJ".
Maura is a Belfast woman whose brother appeared before CRJ for indecent exposure. "They arrived at his work, took him away, and made him apologise face-toface to the woman he'd flashed at, " she says. "I'd never excuse his actions but shortly afterwards we found out that one of the CRJ men involved had raped those two young girls."
WHAT IS COMMUNITY RESTORATIVE JUSTICE?
Community Restorative Justice is often seen as an alternative police force in nationalist areas, particularly in Belfast and Derry.
It has dealt with 1,700 cases in the past year, and presents itself as resolving con"icts between the perpetrators and victims of crime.
Fourteen CRJ schemes operate in working-class, nationalist districts.
CRJ supporters claim that its standards are "in line with the UN's Vienna Convention" and that it has contributed to the decline in 'punishment' attacks.
Critics say it's just another tool of paramilitary control, and accuse it of human rights' abuses and of selectivity.
In 2003, CRJ secured almost 1.4 million, over a three-year period, from Atlantic Philanthropies . . . US billionaire Chuck Feeney's charity.
It's now applying for substantial British government funding.
November 13, 2005
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 19, 2010, 07:09:26 PM
Hmmm. In post #249, Donagh Ulick attempted to belittle/smear/denigrate Suzanne Breen and the Tribune's reporting of the allegations around Adams, by a calculated piece of spin and insinuation - all from a purported position of concern for Sinn Fein's credibility er, the unfortunate victim , particularly her requirement for anonymity, as follows:
"Something stinks with the Tribune and Irish News stories on Briege Meehan and it's not just that they seem to have betrayed the victims right to anonymity. The infighting in the Meehan family has been well know for years, with many things alleged about all the siblings and the victims husband (a quick Google search reports him and her exiled from the north in 2002). There have been rumours of a long running feud between Briege Meehan and the victims brother (who has been appearing fairly frequently in Suzanne Breen articles recently). Add to this that the allegations have only been made after the death of Martin Meehan, there seems to be a lot of competing motivations on all sides of the story - maybe to many to allow for unbiased reporting.
I'm not saying the victims allegations are false but that the whole unsavoury incident would have more chance of being sorted out away from the limelight, as the victim had requested."
Care to question the motives, objectivity and accuracy of the Rape Crisis and Sexual Abuse Centre now, Donagh Ulick? ::)
Just in case you missed my reply, I'll put it to you again:
Eh, have we finished with Suzanne Breen? Yesterday you were saying I was making snide insinuations or something about her creditability when today it has emerged that:
* she identified one of the victims of abuse against her wishes,
* falsely alleged that one of the alleged victims was raped/submitted to sexual abuse
* never followed up on any of the allegations,
* incorrectly alleged that Adams was informed of the abuse,
* incorrectly alleged that the abuser is still a SF official
* didn't disclose that the most high profile dissident republican in Belfast sat in on her interview with the alleged victim
* didn't disclose that that dissident republican brought the story to her
* never questioned the role of the PSNI, RUC and Social Services in these matters
Now I know you haven't lived in Ireland for quite a bit of time, so I can overlook your obvious little faux pas such as someone taking all the copies of the ST from the newsagents in West Belfast, as excusable particularity when you are picking up tittle tattle from OWC.
However how do you evaluate the behaviour of the paragon of virture and professionalism that is Suzanne Breen in light of these matters? On the face of it, it now seems my scepticism regarding Breen is well founded.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8471383.stm
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 20, 2010, 09:32:11 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8471383.stm
I don't know if that is supposed to a reply to me or not but if it is, my post mostly refers to the X case not that one.
Suzanne Breen has another "exclusive" in this weeks Tribune according to her ad on Today FM.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 22, 2010, 06:28:36 PM
Suzanne Breen has another "exclusive" in this weeks Tribune according to her ad on Today FM.
Who is getting it this time ??
Quote from: orangeman on January 22, 2010, 06:44:17 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 22, 2010, 06:28:36 PM
Suzanne Breen has another "exclusive" in this weeks Tribune according to her ad on Today FM.
Who is getting it this time ??
Shocking choice of words there orangeman.
Quote from: Puckoon on January 22, 2010, 07:49:09 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 22, 2010, 06:44:17 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 22, 2010, 06:28:36 PM
Suzanne Breen has another "exclusive" in this weeks Tribune according to her ad on Today FM.
Who is getting it this time ??
;) :D
Shocking choice of words there orangeman.
Journo Eamon McCann has said that when the girl reported the rape, the RUC tried to recruit her as an informer. Shameful eh?
Quote from: Orior on January 22, 2010, 08:25:49 PM
Journo Eamon McCann has said that when the girl reported the rape, the RUC tried to recruit her as an informer. Shameful eh?
OWC faithful on here will suggest that this is a lie, I dont doubt it for a second.
Quote from: Orior on January 22, 2010, 08:25:49 PM
Journo Eamon McCann has said that when the girl reported the rape, the RUC tried to recruit her as an informer. Shameful eh?
Heard that one before - no surprise there.
Quote from: orangeman on January 22, 2010, 06:44:17 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 22, 2010, 06:28:36 PM
Suzanne Breen has another "exclusive" in this weeks Tribune according to her ad on Today FM.
Who is getting it this time ??
She didn't say. I suppose we`ll have to wait until its announced on Slugger, or maybe Seany will have another inside story, which he will then retract. ;) I doubt we`ll be buying the Tribune.
It seems that the police/prosecution have a lot of questions to answer. Why are the victims of this alleged abuse not getting justice? Why are the perpetrators not awaiting trial? Why are some of these cases only coming to light now?
Why hasn't anyone blamed the Brits yet? Who is liable for all the compo? Were the alleged abusers getting DLA at the time? Was it the top rate? The list is endless.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 22, 2010, 08:58:00 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 22, 2010, 06:44:17 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on January 22, 2010, 06:28:36 PM
Suzanne Breen has another "exclusive" in this weeks Tribune according to her ad on Today FM.
Who is getting it this time ??
She didn't say. I suppose we`ll have to wait until its announced on Slugger, or maybe Seany will have another inside story, which he will then retract. ;) I doubt we`ll be buying the Tribune.
It seems that the police/prosecution have a lot of questions to answer. Why are the victims of this alleged abuse not getting justice? Why are the perpetrators not awaiting trial? Why are some of these cases only coming to light now?
Why hasn't anyone blamed the Brits yet? Who is liable for all the compo? Were the alleged abusers getting DLA at the time? Was it the top rate? The list is endless.
High rate care and mobility which meant they could get a motor that they hired out for taxi work at the weekends.
Anyone get the tribune?
Aine says about Gerry:
'The only present I ever received from him was a signed copy of his autobiography, Before The Dawn, in 1996."
She was horrified when she opened the book and read the foreword. Adams thanked his brothers and sisters, "especially Liam". Áine says: "I threw the book in the bin. It made me feel sick. Imagine sending the person you believed had been abused by your brother a book thanking that brother?" Áine's uncle, ex-IRA prisoner Bob Corrigan, says that Liam Adams was a researcher for his brother's autobiography.
0 out of 10 for sensitivity there, Gerry. And that brother you thanked - was he not the one you were estranged from? Except on the occasion of family weddings, of course. And family christenings. And canvassing for the party. And when you needed him to research your book...
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 24, 2010, 08:25:31 PM
Aine says about Gerry:
'The only present I ever received from him was a signed copy of his autobiography, Before The Dawn, in 1996."
She was horrified when she opened the book and read the foreword. Adams thanked his brothers and sisters, "especially Liam". Áine says: "I threw the book in the bin. It made me feel sick. Imagine sending the person you believed had been abused by your brother a book thanking that brother?" Áine's uncle, ex-IRA prisoner Bob Corrigan, says that Liam Adams was a researcher for his brother's autobiography.
0 out of 10 for sensitivity there, Gerry. And that brother you thanked - was he not the one you were estranged from? Except on the occasion of family weddings, of course. And family christenings. And canvassing for the party. And when you needed him to research your book...
I think that Bob and Aine need to draw the horns in here. The Shinners whispering campaign is busy out discreditting Breen and her agenda-ridden lies. The last thing they need is to have to deal with these two as well. Both Gerry and Sinn Fein have made it clear that there is no case to answer.
/Jim.
Gerry's on Nolan now
Gerry on Nolan show now regarding Tribune article
Quote from: glens abu on January 25, 2010, 09:32:56 AM
Gerry on Nolan show now regarding Tribune article
So were Aine and Bob misquoted or maybe manipulated by Breen?
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 25, 2010, 09:28:49 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 24, 2010, 08:25:31 PM
Aine says about Gerry:
'The only present I ever received from him was a signed copy of his autobiography, Before The Dawn, in 1996."
She was horrified when she opened the book and read the foreword. Adams thanked his brothers and sisters, "especially Liam". Áine says: "I threw the book in the bin. It made me feel sick. Imagine sending the person you believed had been abused by your brother a book thanking that brother?" Áine's uncle, ex-IRA prisoner Bob Corrigan, says that Liam Adams was a researcher for his brother's autobiography.
0 out of 10 for sensitivity there, Gerry. And that brother you thanked - was he not the one you were estranged from? Except on the occasion of family weddings, of course. And family christenings. And canvassing for the party. And when you needed him to research your book...
I think that Bob and Aine need to draw the horns in here. The Shinners whispering campaign is busy out discreditting Breen and her agenda-ridden lies. The last thing they need is to have to deal with these two as well. Both Gerry and Sinn Fein have made it clear that there is no case to answer.
/Jim.
Jim maybe you'd answer the points I put to EG last week on this thread regarding Breen?
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2010, 10:21:02 AM
Jim maybe you'd answer the points I put to EG last week on this thread regarding Breen?
I'll certainly have a look but I am happy to let you discredit Breen. However I am satisfied that the quotes attributed to the victims in both the articles and Tribune statements are in just that: "quotes".
So even if the manner that this information came to light is not satisfactory I personally believe the victims (and Bob Corrigan) when they contradict Adams' verson of events.
For example: A few pages back it was acknowledged that Adams had acknowledged Liam in his foreword. It was explained that not mentioning him would have drawn attention to some kind of issue, hence endangering the victim rights to anonymity. However I had the opportunity this weekend to flick through "Before the Dawn" and it does indeed mention "especially Liam". Now, surely there was no need to single the man out if the purpose was only to keep up appearances?
So regardless of Breen's motives, methods or creditability I believe that Adams has questions to answer, questions he has not answered satisfactorily for a man of his position. I believe this issue is far greater than whether some newshound's motives.
/Jim.
BTW: The above is merely one example. Others would be:
"I didn't know Liam was in Sinn Fein but had Gerry bothered to tell me, I would have waived my anonymity without hesitation," said Ms Tyrell.
"I said I was very concerned that Liam was seeking jobs working with children," said Ms Tyrell. "Gerry told me that was Liam's way of trying to make up to the community for what he had done."
Quote from: glens abu on January 25, 2010, 09:32:56 AM
Gerry on Nolan show now regarding Tribune article
Missed the show this morning - how did the interview go ?
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 25, 2010, 10:41:29 AM
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2010, 10:21:02 AM
Jim maybe you'd answer the points I put to EG last week on this thread regarding Breen?
I'll certainly have a look but I am happy to let you discredit Breen. However I am satisfied that the quotes attributed to the victims in both the articles and Tribune statements are in just that: "quotes".
So even if the manner that this information came to light is not satisfactory I personally believe the victims (and Bob Corrigan) when they contradict Adams' verson of events.
For example: A few pages back it was acknowledged that Adams had acknowledged Liam in his foreword. It was explained that not mentioning him would have drawn attention to some kind of issue, hence endangering the victim rights to anonymity. However I had the opportunity this weekend to flick through "Before the Dawn" and it does indeed mention "especially Liam". Now, surely there was no need to single the man out if the purpose was only to keep up appearances?
So regardless of Breen's motives, methods or creditability I believe that Adams has questions to answer, questions he has not answered satisfactorily for a man of his position. I believe this issue is far greater than whether some newshound's motives.
/Jim.
BTW: The above is merely one example. Others would be:
"I didn't know Liam was in Sinn Fein but had Gerry bothered to tell me, I would have waived my anonymity without hesitation," said Ms Tyrell.
"I said I was very concerned that Liam was seeking jobs working with children," said Ms Tyrell. "Gerry told me that was Liam's way of trying to make up to the community for what he had done."
Jim you are alleging a whispering campaign and now trying to poo poo my post, presumably before you have even read it. Adams surely has questions to answer but so to has Breen. My post below as Eg seem to be unable or unwilling to respond:
"Eh, have we finished with Suzanne Breen? Yesterday you were saying I was making snide insinuations or something about her creditability when today it has emerged that:
* she identified one of the victims of abuse against her wishes,
* falsely alleged that one of the alleged victims was raped/submitted to sexual abuse
* never followed up on any of the allegations,
* incorrectly alleged that Adams was informed of the abuse,
* incorrectly alleged that the abuser is still a SF official
* didn't disclose that the most high profile dissident republican in Belfast sat in on her interview with the alleged victim
* didn't disclose that that dissident republican brought the story to her
* never questioned the role of the PSNI, RUC and Social Services in these matters
Now I know you haven't lived in Ireland for quite a bit of time, so I can overlook your obvious little faux pas such as someone taking all the copies of the ST from the newsagents in West Belfast, as excusable particularity when you are picking up tittle tattle from OWC.
However how do you evaluate the behaviour of the paragon of virture and professionalism that is Suzanne Breen in light of these matters? On the face of it, it now seems my scepticism regarding Breen is well founded. "As an addendum it also seems the Sunday Tribune editor was incorrect when he said that they have showed the finished article to X's victim as Breen told Pat Kenny on Friday morning that she read it to her brother down the phone before it went to publication.
Ulick,
You repeat that stuff though you know that most of it has been contradicted by the statement put out by the ST. You then further muddy the waters by claiming that Breen has contradicted herself, when you know (because you've read it) that the ST statement clearly states that the article was read to the victim over the phone. You're showing yourself up to be nothing but a parrot for the SF smear machine.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 12:03:51 PM
Ulick,
You repeat that stuff though you know that most of it has been contradicted by the statement put out by the ST. You then further muddy the waters by claiming that Breen has contradicted herself, when you know (because you've read it) that the ST statement clearly states that the article was read to the victim over the phone. You're showing yourself up to be nothing but a parrot for the SF smear machine.
Show me where and what points have been contradicted. And less of the personal abuse unless you can prove it.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 12:03:51 PM
Ulick,
You repeat that stuff though you know that most of it has been contradicted by the statement put out by the ST. You then further muddy the waters by claiming that Breen has contradicted herself, when you know (because you've read it) that the ST statement clearly states that the article was read to the victim over the phone. You're showing yourself up to be nothing but a parrot for the SF smear machine.
No it doesn't. Here is a quote from the Sunday Tribune editorial from last week;
"She posed for photographs in Belfast and after being read the contents of the story by Breen, agreed completely with it and with its publication."
That implies that she was read the article in person. Diarmuid Doyle and Breen both said on the radio last Sunday that she was 'shown it'. Friday on the Pat Kenny was the first time it was mentioned it was read down the phone (presumably because X's victim is now taking legal action against them) and it seems that it wasn't even read to the victim but her brother.
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2010, 12:05:37 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 12:03:51 PM
Ulick,
You repeat that stuff though you know that most of it has been contradicted by the statement put out by the ST. You then further muddy the waters by claiming that Breen has contradicted herself, when you know (because you've read it) that the ST statement clearly states that the article was read to the victim over the phone. You're showing yourself up to be nothing but a parrot for the SF smear machine.
Show me where and what points have been contradicted. And less of the personal abuse unless you can prove it.
'In follow-up telephone conversations before the publication of the article in the Sunday Tribune, the story, as it would appear in the newspaper, including the allegations against Gerry Adams, was read to both the victim and her brother. They both agreed it was an honest and accurate account of the interview.'
There's the first one.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 12:17:51 PM
'In follow-up telephone conversations before the publication of the article in the Sunday Tribune, the story, as it would appear in the newspaper, including the allegations against Gerry Adams, was read to both the victim and her brother. They both agreed it was an honest and accurate account of the interview.'
There's the first one.
Have you any proof that's what happened? What about the rest of my points?
she identified one of the victims of abuse against her wishes,
Last Saturday, January 16 2010, the victim, through the solicitors Madden and Finucane, claimed she had never given permission for the interview or allegations to be used. Although consent was freely given by the victim, the Sunday Tribune respected her decision to withdraw consent for her identity to be revealed and ran the story without identifying her.
* falsely alleged that one of the alleged victims was raped/submitted to sexual abuse
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother who stated in writing that Gerry Adams had been personally informed about the allegations of sexual and physical abuse against an elected Sinn Fein member over two years ago.
* never followed up on any of the allegations,
* incorrectly alleged that Adams was informed of the abuse,
It is being claimed by Sinn Fein and by one of the women, whose identity was not revealed in the Sunday Tribune, that Mr Adams did not know of the abuse she suffered as a child at the hands of a Sinn Fein elected representative. This is directly at odds with the information we were given and we have proof of this.
* incorrectly alleged that the abuser is still a SF official
At the time of the article, the accused was a SF member for Newtownabbey Council
* didn't disclose that the most high profile dissident republican in Belfast sat in on her interview with the alleged victim
* didn't disclose that that dissident republican brought the story to her
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother
* never questioned the role of the PSNI, RUC and Social Services in these matters
You asked 'Have you any proof that's what happened?' I wasn't standing beside Suzanne Breen when all this happened, if that's what you mean. I believe her statements and the statements of the ST, most of which are supported by witnesses. What is SF's proof? The word of Gerry 'I wasn't in the IRA' Adams? Gerry 'I was estranged from my brother' Adams? Gerry 'Always look on the bright side of life' Adams?
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 12:52:31 PM
she identified one of the victims of abuse against her wishes,
Last Saturday, January 16 2010, the victim, through the solicitors Madden and Finucane, claimed she had never given permission for the interview or allegations to be used. Although consent was freely given by the victim, the Sunday Tribune respected her decision to withdraw consent for her identity to be revealed and ran the story without identifying her.
* falsely alleged that one of the alleged victims was raped/submitted to sexual abuse
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother who stated in writing that Gerry Adams had been personally informed about the allegations of sexual and physical abuse against an elected Sinn Fein member over two years ago.
* never followed up on any of the allegations,
* incorrectly alleged that Adams was informed of the abuse,
It is being claimed by Sinn Fein and by one of the women, whose identity was not revealed in the Sunday Tribune, that Mr Adams did not know of the abuse she suffered as a child at the hands of a Sinn Fein elected representative. This is directly at odds with the information we were given and we have proof of this.
* incorrectly alleged that the abuser is still a SF official
At the time of the article, the accused was a SF member for Newtownabbey Council
* didn't disclose that the most high profile dissident republican in Belfast sat in on her interview with the alleged victim
* didn't disclose that that dissident republican brought the story to her
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother
* never questioned the role of the PSNI, RUC and Social Services in these matters
You asked 'Have you any proof that's what happened?' I wasn't standing beside Suzanne Breen when all this happened, if that's what you mean. I believe her statements and the statements of the ST, most of which are supported by witnesses. What is SF's proof? The word of Gerry 'I wasn't in the IRA' Adams? Gerry 'I was estranged from my brother' Adams? Gerry 'Always look on the bright side of life' Adams?
The Sunday Tribune said they would publish proof of their version of event yesterday. They didn't. It's not a question of believing either Adams or Breen as she freely admit she never asked him for comment.
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2010, 12:30:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 12:17:51 PM
'In follow-up telephone conversations before the publication of the article in the Sunday Tribune, the story, as it would appear in the newspaper, including the allegations against Gerry Adams, was read to both the victim and her brother. They both agreed it was an honest and accurate account of the interview.'
There's the first one.
Have you any proof that's what happened? What about the rest of my points?
I found this little snippet from Ms Breen's articles interesting.
QuoteIn follow-up telephone calls with both the victim and her brother several days before publication, the entire interview – word-for-word as it would appear in the newspaper – was read out to both individuals. The victim and her brother both agreed it was an accurate and honest account.
The Sunday Tribune can produce indisputable evidence that both individuals stated this in these telephone conversations.
Does this mean that a transcript or recording of the phone calls exists?
Secondly, I find this comment extremely disingenuous.
QuoteAlthough her consent had been freely given, we respected her decision to withdraw consent for her identity to be revealed.
I don't think anyone who read the article could be any doubt whatsoever about the identity of the family involved.
'she never asked him for comment.'
No, but he's certainly given his side of the story. Unfortunately for Gerry, his side of the story is contradicted by nearly everyone else involved: by aine, by Ms Cahill, by the Clonard youth club authorities, by various SF officials in Dundalk and Belfast, and by the physical evidence - the photos, the book acknowledgement, which show that Gerry was never estranged from Liam, despite what he says. Are all these people lying? Are they all trying to bring down good, honest Gerry who never told a lie in his puff?
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2010, 11:37:41 AM
Jim you are alleging a whispering campaign and now trying to poo poo my post, presumably before you have even read it. Adams surely has questions to answer but so to has Breen. My post below as Eg seem to be unable or unwilling to respond:
Ulick,
I am not my brother's keeper so I'm not sure why you are after me about EG not answering your questions. I'm not trying to poo poo your post, indeed I undertook to read and said I would accept that Breen is discredited for the purpose of discussing what I view to be to much more serious issue: the possibility of a public representative playing fast and loose with the law, the truth and victim's welfare.
In terms of victim's welfare if the Tribune violated people's right to anonymity (even though both victims seem to have since given a retrospective blessing to that) then that is wrong but I don't think the entire discussion should be zoned in on that point. Hence I take it as a given to get to meat of issues.
You acknowledge that Adams has questions to answer. That I concur with and don't feel his answers to date stack up. I most concede that whenever someone's story needs so many retrospective "clarifications" (ala Bertie Ahern) my suspicion is evoked.
/Jim.
Anyone who wants to hear Gerry Adams answer all the questions he can answer regarding the Liam Adams case can hear them on the podcast of todays Nolan show.As far as the Meehan case don't think he has any to answer as the Meehan family have stated he wasn't contacted about them.Think this was a bit of Ms Breen wishful think.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 02:06:11 PM
'she never asked him for comment.'
No, but he's certainly given his side of the story. Unfortunately for Gerry, his side of the story is contradicted by nearly everyone else involved: by aine, by Ms Cahill, by the Clonard youth club authorities, by various SF officials in Dundalk and Belfast, and by the physical evidence - the photos, the book acknowledgement, which show that Gerry was never estranged from Liam, despite what he says. Are all these people lying? Are they all trying to bring down good, honest Gerry who never told a lie in his puff?
I'm not concerned with Adams, we are discussing Breen's journalistic professionalism, unless you forgot. By not seeking corroboration of the allegations she has undermined her own creditability without any need for the supposed SF whispering campaign.
A European Arrest Warrant has been issued for Liam Adams, the brother of Gerry Adams, who is wanted in connection with an investigation into sexual abuse.
The PSNI is seeking his extradition and the warrant was sent from the Home Office, to the Department of Justice and on to the Gardai.
It was then endorsed by the High Court in Dublin.
The Gardai are now looking for Liam Adams and will arrest him when they locate him.
He will then be brought before the High Court
Quote from: Trevor Hill on March 03, 2010, 08:55:05 PM
A European Arrest Warrant has been issued for Liam Adams, the brother of Gerry Adams, who is wanted in connection with an investigation into sexual abuse.
The PSNI is seeking his extradition and the warrant was sent from the Home Office, to the Department of Justice and on to the Gardai.
It was then endorsed by the High Court in Dublin.
The Gardai are now looking for Liam Adams and will arrest him when they locate him.
He will then be brought before the High Court
Has the warrant only been issued now?
It's like something you'd see in one of those carry on films!
Thursday March 04 2010
Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams' brother today handed himself over to the authorities as he faces an extradition bid over alleged sexual abuse of his daughter.
Liam Adams, who is wanted in the North on suspicion of attacking Aine Tyrell in the 1970s and 1980s, presented himself to gardai in Dublin city centre.
He was initially detained at Bridewell Garda Station after the High Court yesterday sanctioned a European Arrest Warrant from the Police Service of Northern Ireland.
Mr Adams, who is expected to contest the extradition, has persistently denied the allegations.
A short time later, the republican leader's brother was brought to the nearby Four Courts flanked by two gardai.
A brief hearing on his extradition was expected to take place in front of the President of the High Court Mr Justice Nicholas Kearns this afternoon.
It'll be interesting to see what grounds he'll contest the extradition on.
/Jim
Getting extradited to the six counties.
Conspiracy theorists will have a field day with the timing of this announcement.........
Loo\k at the date of the post before your one Minder.
Not even Carlsberg could do that.
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 03, 2011, 02:21:44 PM
Loo\k at the date of the post before your one Minder.
Not even Carlsberg could do that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1003/breaking30.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1003/breaking30.html)
Liam Adams to be extradited
The brother of Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams is to be extradited to Northern Ireland to stand trial on allegations that he sexually abused his daughter.
Liam Dominic Adams is wanted by the PSNI in relation to 18 alleged offences against Aine Tyrell, who has waived her right to anonymity.
The 56-year-old, who denies the allegations, lost his fight against extradition from at the High Court in Dublin.
Mr Adams has 15 days to lodge an appeal against the court's ruling before the extradition order takes effect.
The sex abuse claims became public in December 2009 when Ms Tyrell (38) was featured in a television documentary.
Liam Adams is accused of rape, indecent assault and gross indecency at various addresses in Belfast between March 1977 and March 1983, when his daughter was aged between four and 10.
In an affidavit to the court, Mr Adams said has been prejudiced by the delay in bringing charges and widely condemned as a guilty man by the media and persons of repute and in positions of authority, including his brother.
The High Court was told a complaint was first lodged by Ms Tyrell and her mother, Sarah Adams, to police in Belfast on January 21st, 1987.
Mr Adams, whose last address was Bernagh Avenue in Belfast, denied the allegations when arrested in February 2007. A European arrest warrant was issued almost two years later and he handed himself in to gardaí in Dublin.
Mr Adams, who was supported in court by another daughter Claire Smith and her friend, showed no emotion as sections of the 64-page judgment were read by Mr Justice John Edwards this afternoon.
The judge rejected arguments the accused could not get a fair trial because of pre-trial publicity and comments by his brother, a delay in bringing charges and changes in the jury selection in Northern Ireland.
"He must look to the courts of the requesting State to protect his rights," said Mr Justice Edwards. "Those courts would be better placed to deal with those issues."
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 12:52:31 PM
she identified one of the victims of abuse against her wishes,
Last Saturday, January 16 2010, the victim, through the solicitors Madden and Finucane, claimed she had never given permission for the interview or allegations to be used. Although consent was freely given by the victim, the Sunday Tribune respected her decision to withdraw consent for her identity to be revealed and ran the story without identifying her.
* falsely alleged that one of the alleged victims was raped/submitted to sexual abuse
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother who stated in writing that Gerry Adams had been personally informed about the allegations of sexual and physical abuse against an elected Sinn Fein member over two years ago.
* never followed up on any of the allegations,
* incorrectly alleged that Adams was informed of the abuse,
It is being claimed by Sinn Fein and by one of the women, whose identity was not revealed in the Sunday Tribune, that Mr Adams did not know of the abuse she suffered as a child at the hands of a Sinn Fein elected representative. This is directly at odds with the information we were given and we have proof of this.
* incorrectly alleged that the abuser is still a SF official
At the time of the article, the accused was a SF member for Newtownabbey Council
* didn't disclose that the most high profile dissident republican in Belfast sat in on her interview with the alleged victim
* didn't disclose that that dissident republican brought the story to her
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother
* never questioned the role of the PSNI, RUC and Social Services in these matters
You asked 'Have you any proof that's what happened?' I wasn't standing beside Suzanne Breen when all this happened, if that's what you mean. I believe her statements and the statements of the ST, most of which are supported by witnesses. What is SF's proof? The word of Gerry 'I wasn't in the IRA' Adams? Gerry 'I was estranged from my brother' Adams? Gerry 'Always look on the bright side of life' Adams?
He is innocent until proven guilty, even under brit law and just because you want him to be an IRA member does not make it so.
You make it sound like he was as bad as the brother, he's not but then sure you wouldnt have an agenda or anything like that would you bhoy?
Quote from: Minder on October 03, 2011, 02:17:37 PM
Conspiracy theorists will have a field day with the timing of this announcement.........
I wouldn't expect this to have any impact. Unless something new is uncovered, this is very much a Gerry Adams issue.
Quote from: stew on October 03, 2011, 02:47:18 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 25, 2010, 12:52:31 PM
she identified one of the victims of abuse against her wishes,
Last Saturday, January 16 2010, the victim, through the solicitors Madden and Finucane, claimed she had never given permission for the interview or allegations to be used. Although consent was freely given by the victim, the Sunday Tribune respected her decision to withdraw consent for her identity to be revealed and ran the story without identifying her.
* falsely alleged that one of the alleged victims was raped/submitted to sexual abuse
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother who stated in writing that Gerry Adams had been personally informed about the allegations of sexual and physical abuse against an elected Sinn Fein member over two years ago.
* never followed up on any of the allegations,
* incorrectly alleged that Adams was informed of the abuse,
It is being claimed by Sinn Fein and by one of the women, whose identity was not revealed in the Sunday Tribune, that Mr Adams did not know of the abuse she suffered as a child at the hands of a Sinn Fein elected representative. This is directly at odds with the information we were given and we have proof of this.
* incorrectly alleged that the abuser is still a SF official
At the time of the article, the accused was a SF member for Newtownabbey Council
* didn't disclose that the most high profile dissident republican in Belfast sat in on her interview with the alleged victim
* didn't disclose that that dissident republican brought the story to her
The Sunday Tribune was approached in the first instance by this victim's brother
* never questioned the role of the PSNI, RUC and Social Services in these matters
You asked 'Have you any proof that's what happened?' I wasn't standing beside Suzanne Breen when all this happened, if that's what you mean. I believe her statements and the statements of the ST, most of which are supported by witnesses. What is SF's proof? The word of Gerry 'I wasn't in the IRA' Adams? Gerry 'I was estranged from my brother' Adams? Gerry 'Always look on the bright side of life' Adams?
He is innocent until proven guilty, even under brit law and just because you want him to be an IRA member does not make it so.
You make it sound like he was as bad as the brother, he's not but then sure you wouldnt have an agenda or anything like that would you bhoy?
A year and nine months to think about it and that's the best you can muster? :D
Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams confronted his brother about allegations he raped and abused his own daughter, a jury has heard.
Belfast Crown Court heard on Tuesday that after Aine Adams told her mother about what had allegedly happened to her when she was a child, the mother and daughter - along with the top politician - went to confront Liam Adams at a house in Buncrana, Co Donegal in 1987.
Liam Adams, however, has denied the allegations.
He went on trial on Tuesday facing ten counts of rape, indecent assault and gross indecency allegedly committed against his daughter - between the ages of around four and 10 - from 23 March 1977 to 24 March 1984.
Opening the Crown case against Liam Adams, from Bernagh Drive in Belfast, prosecuting QC Ciaran Murphy warned the jury of six men and six women that their role was to assess the evidence, "decide who is telling the truth" and set aside any feelings of sympathy or prejudice they may have.
He declared that ultimately, once they have heard all of the evidence in the trial, "we respectfully say that you will be firmly convinced of the guilt of Mr Liam Adams".
Taking the jury through the 10-count indictment, Mr Murphy said that in essence Aine Adams, now 40, will allege that when she was a child, her father "engaged in indecent touching of her body", forced her to perform sex acts and touch him and also "engaged in sexual intercourse with her from about the age of five".
Describing how her parents' marriage was not a happy one, the lawyer said there were many occasions when Aine's mother left the home and it was then, "when the defendant was left alone with Aine Adams, she alleges she was abused".
He said the first incident the alleged victim could recollect was when she was aged around four and living in Westrock Drive in west Belfast when her father allegedly came into her room and "started touching her", adding that in combination with the further sexual allegations "it can be inferred that the touching was indecent".
The next set of three charges of indecent assault, gross indecency and rape, came when Aine was around five, the lawyer said.
While her mother was in hospital giving birth to her brother Connor, Liam Adams allegedly went into his daughter's room, touched her inappropriately, forced her to touch him, and then raped her.
After the family had moved to a property in the Lenadoon area, when Aine was still around five, Mr Murphy recounted how Aine would give evidence of having her own bedroom but that her father came into her room wearing a sheepskin coat.
"He had just come into the house," explained the lawyer, "and she alleges that he touched the area where her breasts would have been and kissed her in a vulgar way" before there was more inappropriate touching and rape.
Another alleged incident occurred in a bungalow the family had moved to in the New Barnsley area in the summer of 1981 when again, having gone into his young daughter's bedroom, Adams abused her and forced her to perform a sex act.
The last count, Mr Murphy told the jury, related to an allegation that Adams raped his daughter when she was aged around 10 - in a flat he moved into on the Antrim Road in the north of the city, after the marriage broke up.
He said Aine first told her mother Sarah about the allegations in 1986, a short time before the mother and daughter - along with Sinn Féin president, her uncle Gerry Adams - went to Co Donegal to confront him about his alleged behaviour.
The jury heard that, while she also told police about the alleged abuse in 1987 and gave a statement, she told police she did not wish the matter to go any further and moved to Scotland.
By 2006, however, Aine Adams had come back to Belfast and again raised her complaint with the police who arrested her father and interviewed him three times.
Liam Adams denied all the allegations put to him and also denied that his brother, ex-wife and daughter ever confronted him about the claims.
The trial continues.
Gerry giving evidence against his brother today, he seems to be the prosecutions trump card. The usual suspects are strangely silent on this one.
Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams has denied making a statement to police about alleged child sex abuse "to save his political skin".
Child abuse is "above politics" and saving his skin was "no consideration whatsoever," he told Belfast Crown Court.
He was giving evidence at the trial of his brother, Liam, who denies 10 charges of sexually abusing his daughter Aine.
She has waived her right to anonymity.
Earlier on Monday Gerry Adams told the court that his brother had admitted sexually abusing his daughter.
The Sinn Fein president said that Liam Adams made the alleged admission during a long walk in the rain in Dundalk, County Louth, in 2000.
"He acknowledged that he had sexually abused Aine. He said it only happened the once."
The politician said that he had dealt with the case "in a very forthright and honest way".
He told the court he did not think his brother was a danger to other youngsters, although he had "acquainted" a priest at Clonard monastery youth club about the sex allegations and he had also advised his brother to get out of youth work.
Mr Adams said he did not believe Liam Adams to be a danger, "given his acknowledgement to me (that he had abused his daughter), and that this had only happened once".
Mr Adams said he had first confronted his brother about the alleged abuse during a meeting in Buncrana, County Donegal, in 1987. He told the court that at that time Liam Adams denied the allegations.
Mr Adams said that when the conversation concluded he spoke to his brother telling him "this was a very serious situation, that he had to reflect on and to acknowledge what she (Aine) was saying, that she had no reason to make any of that up".
He added later that he had two further meetings with his brother Liam, "one in my home, and one day walking in the Falls Park".
Later, the defence barrister suggested that the alleged admission had not taken place.
"You say that your brother made an admission to you in 2000 walking in the rain in Dundalk. I should make it clear to you that I suggest no such admission was made," she said.
Gerry Adams replied: "I don't accept that but I understand it."
Under cross examination, Mr Adams said that initially he knew nothing of his niece's specific claims of rape against her father and that this remained the situation "for 20 years".
The politician said he had "no recollection" of Aine's mother telling him specific details, adding that he had not wanted to know the details, and that it was "a terrible thing that had happened". He also denied saying that if the allegations were true he would have hit his brother "with a hammer".
The prosecution put it to Mr Adams that he had said he had not been in contact with his brother for 15 years from 1987 until 2002, while photographs and other evidence suggested they had been in contact on a number of occasions.
"Well your grasp of the calendar of these events is better than mine," Gerry Adams said, adding that the separation may not have been as long as 15 years.
Mr Adams told the court that he "did have a problem with exact timelines" for events, but denied that he had lied to a journalist about his brother in an effort to distance himself from him.
The court heard that Mr Adams gave his first statement to the Police Service of Northern Ireland about the matter in 2007.
He gave a second statement in 2009 in which he said that in 2000, Liam Adams had admitted to him that he had abused Aine.
The court heard that in 2009, Gerry Adams had given an interview for a TV programme about the allegations.
A defence lawyer said: "You went to the police because you knew the question of you withholding information was going to become a matter of public debate."
Gerry Adams said: "I did not know that."
The defence lawyer also said: "The reason you made this statement to police on 21 October 2009 was to save your political skin."
He said that if he had been interested in saving his "political skin", he would not have got involved in the process from the beginning.
"I was trying to fulfil my responsibilities as the uncle of a young woman I am very fond of and doing my best to resolve all of this," he told the court.
"This is above politics and saving my political skin is no consideration whatsoever in any of these matters."
Liam Adams, 57, from Bearnagh Drive, Belfast, denies 10 charges of sexually abuse, including rape, indecent assault and gross indecency, against his daughter between 1977 and 1983.
The trial continues.
Back on again.
is it Gerry or his brother who's on trial?
Quote from: lawnseed on September 19, 2013, 08:18:00 PM
is it Gerry or his brother who's on trial?
Gerry had a foot in both camps, he jumped ship and became a key prosecution witness.
Long story short, Gerry's brother has been found guilty.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24348798 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24348798)
Found guilty - hope the bastard gets beat every day in jail.
Liam Adams: Sordid episode has left Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams politically toxic
BY SUZANNE BREEN – 02 OCTOBER 2013
Major questions hang over the political leadership of Gerry Adams following the conviction of his brother Liam for child sexual abuse.
The Sinn Fein president's right to hold public office was last night brought into doubt as his evasive and duplicitous account of his relationship with his brother – and his disturbingly inadequate response to Aine's claims that she had been raped – were exposed.
And by not informing Sinn Fein of the sexual abuse allegations against his brother when he was first told them in 1987, Mr Adams broke his own party's rules.
Reporting restrictions during the trial meant that his actions couldn't be put in the public domain. But the inexcusable inadequacies of his response after learning of his brother's paedophilia can now be detailed.
Gerry Adams has believed for 27 years that his brother Liam is a paedophile. Yet he attended his wedding, took him canvassing for Sinn Fein in Dundalk, and Liam remained a highly visible and active member of the party years after Gerry claimed he had him kicked out.
In 2009 Mr Adams told UTV's Insight that he had believed Aine from the moment in 1987 when she told him her father had raped her. He said he'd always supported her and that, after hearing her claims, he had been estranged from his brother for 15 years until 2002-3.
This was not true. Photographs given to this reporter show the Sinn Fein president at Liam's wedding and reception in the Bellingham Castle Hotel in Co Louth 10 years after he said he was estranged from his brother. He is pictured standing smiling beside Liam wearing a green ribbon for IRA prisoners.
During Liam Adams' first trial, a prosecution barrister accused Gerry Adams of telling "another lie" after he made the same assertion that he and his brother spent a decade-and-a-half apart.
Contrary to what he said on TV, Gerry Adams maintained regular contact with Liam, staying overnight at his home in Dundalk; and Liam actually lived with him for several weeks in his west Belfast home after he had secured a job in a youth centre in Clonard.
Gerry Adams never disclosed to UTV that his brother had been a Sinn Fein member. When he was later forced to admit it, he portrayed Liam's involvement as minor and shortlived.
Liam Adams was actually a high-ranking Sinn Fein member in Dundalk in the 1990s and in Belfast the following decade. He sought the nomination to be the party's Co Louth candidate in the 1997 Dail election but failed.
Gerry Adams has said that when he "heard" that the brother he believed to be a paedophile was in Sinn Fein, he "moved immediately" to stop his Dail nomination and "to get him dumped out of Sinn Fein... I moved very, very quickly".
Again, this was not true. Photographs eight months after Gerry Adams said he had Liam "dumped" from the party show the Sinn Fein president canvassing in June 1997 in the Dail election campaign with the brother he believed was a paedophile, and from whom he was allegedly estranged.
The Adams brothers are shown laughing on the canvass in a shopping centre and on the Dundalk streets. Several republicans on the canvass have made statements saying the Adams brothers were very close and on excellent terms.
Sinn Fein initially stated that Liam Adams was "never a party officer". That was untrue. He was Sinn Fein's most senior official in Co Louth. As chairman of the Louth comhairle ceantair, he liaised directly with the leadership.
A photograph published in a local Dundalk paper shows Liam Adams standing beside Martin McGuinness at the official opening of the party's new office in the town in June 1996.
And 13 months after Liam Adams was supposedly "dumped" by his brother from Sinn Fein, he chaired the Edentubber IRA martyrs commemoration in Co Louth attended by thousands of republicans. He introduced Sinn Fein's then national chairman Mitchel McLaughlin as the main speaker at the event, which is one of the most important in the republican calendar.
Gerry Adams is on the record as saying he didn't tell anyone else in Sinn Fein that there were allegations of paedophilia against his brother. This contravened the party's constitution at the time, which stated: "Where allegations of sexual harassment and sexual assault are made, they should be referred directly to an ard comhairle."
The most powerful man in Sinn Fein has treated his party's internal rules with contempt. Liam Adams' political career spanned both sides of the border.
After his involvement in the party in Dundalk, he went on to be an active and founder member of the Lower Andersonstown Sinn Fein cumann, which met weekly in the Felons Club, two streets away from Gerry Adams' home.
He was a treasurer for Sinn Fein in west Belfast and a joint signatory on the Cumann mheon na Fuiseoige chequebook. He had previously been a member of Sinn Fein in Co Donegal and had attended party events in Dublin.
Gerry Adams knew that his brother was working with children in various youth projects in west Belfast. Yet, despite his public claims, he has produced no evidence to prove he took action to have Liam swiftly removed from his position by his employers. The only named person that he says he informed is a now dead priest.
Gerry Adams' repeated evasions and failure to take decisive action to ensure other children were potentially not at risk from his paedophile brother surely make him politically toxic.
They certainly strip him of any credibility and moral authority he had left. His actions are hardly in keeping with a party which is in Government here and seeks the same in the Republic.
The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/liam-adams-sordid-episode-has-left-sinn-fein-president-gerry-adams-politically-toxic-29626240.html
Gerry Adams knew the extreme allegations which was put to his brother and still he knew that he was working in youth centres in Belfast. how the f**k has he not come in for more criticism here?
I ask you if this happened anywhere else in the world would the aforementioned person not made to resign?
Quote from: give her dixie on October 02, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
Liam Adams: Sordid episode has left Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams politically toxic
BY SUZANNE BREEN – 02 OCTOBER 2013
The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history.
No matter how much Suzanne Breen wants to believe this, it's simply not true, Gerry is far from toxic.
He is still President of SF because there have been no challengers and the vast majority of members recognise he is their best overall performer especially for that role. He will continue to get re-elected for as long as he cares to try, for again no matter how much Suzanne Breen would like it to be different, the vast majority won't condemn him for the sins of the brother for they will all thing "but for the grace of God there go I" - as they say.
Quote from: Ulick on October 02, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on October 02, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
Liam Adams: Sordid episode has left Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams politically toxic
BY SUZANNE BREEN – 02 OCTOBER 2013
The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history.
No matter how much Suzanne Breen wants to believe this, it's simply not true, Gerry is far from toxic.
He is still President of SF because there have been no challengers and the vast majority of members recognise he is their best overall performer especially for that role. He will continue to get re-elected for as long as he cares to try, for again no matter how much Suzanne Breen would like it to be different, the vast majority won't condemn him for the sins of the brother for they will all thing "but for the grace of God there go I" - as they say.
Very true Ulick but Suzanne and the anti Shinners are out in forceftp://,hope it never comes to their door.
Quote from: theticklemister on October 02, 2013, 03:44:44 PM
Gerry Adams knew the extreme allegations which was put to his brother and still he knew that he was working in youth centres in Belfast. how the f**k has he not come in for more criticism here?
I ask you if this happened anywhere else in the world would the aforementioned person not made to resign?
Indeed. when you consider the other thread running where so many people want to do all sorts of things to a man in custody accused of raping young girls. Here we have a man convicted of raping his daughter over a long period, and his brother, who is the leader of a major political party, covered up for him, lied to the party, and let him work with children again. Unreal. Yet no one is calling for Liam to be on the receiving end of mob justice, or for his brother to resign.
Cardinal Brady covered up child abuse and is still in power. Gerry Adams covered up child abuse, and he too will remain in power. Integrity in positions of power doesn't seem to be on the job description for these men.
Cardinal Daly is deceased.His successor Cardinal Brady carried out a full investigation into allegations of child abuse and promptly reported his findings.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2013, 05:40:54 PM
Cardinal Daly is deceased.His successor Cardinal Brady carried out a full investigation into allegations of child abuse and promptly reported his findings.
Sorry Tony, my mistake. Cardinal Brady was indeed the man responsible for covering up child abuse and getting young children to sign statements.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2013, 05:40:54 PM
Cardinal Daly is deceased.His successor Cardinal Brady carried out a full investigation into allegations of child abuse and promptly reported his findings.
*yawn*
Quote from: Ulick on October 02, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on October 02, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
Liam Adams: Sordid episode has left Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams politically toxic
BY SUZANNE BREEN – 02 OCTOBER 2013
The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history.
No matter how much Suzanne Breen wants to believe this, it's simply not true, Gerry is far from toxic.
He is still President of SF because there have been no challengers and the vast majority of members recognise he is their best overall performer especially for that role. He will continue to get re-elected for as long as he cares to try, for again no matter how much Suzanne Breen would like it to be different, the vast majority won't condemn him for the sins of the brother for they will all thing "but for the grace of God there go I" - as they say.
No one is condemning him for the sins of his brother. The 'sins', if you want to use that terminology, as outlined in Suzanne Breen's article, are Gerry's, not his brother's.
That no one in SF sees fit to challenge him (despite the fact that as well as issues with his account of what happened, he - according to Breen's article - failed to follow party protocol) speaks volumes of what SF consider acceptable conduct from their leader.
Quote from: Ulick on October 02, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on October 02, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
Liam Adams: Sordid episode has left Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams politically toxic
BY SUZANNE BREEN – 02 OCTOBER 2013
The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history.
No matter how much Suzanne Breen wants to believe this, it's simply not true, Gerry is far from toxic.
He is still President of SF because there have been no challengers and the vast majority of members recognise he is their best overall performer especially for that role. He will continue to get re-elected for as long as he cares to try, for again no matter how much Suzanne Breen would like it to be different, the vast majority won't condemn him for the sins of the brother for they will all thing "but for the grace of God there go I" - as they say.
Gerry may or may not be 'toxic' with SF's traditional support. If they don't get rid of him, however, the Shinners will find that there is a cap on their potential support. They won't be able to attract new voters while Adams is in charge.
Quote from: Ulick on October 02, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on October 02, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
Liam Adams: Sordid episode has left Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams politically toxic
BY SUZANNE BREEN – 02 OCTOBER 2013
The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history.
No matter how much Suzanne Breen wants to believe this, it's simply not true, Gerry is far from toxic.
He is still President of SF because there have been no challengers and the vast majority of members recognise he is their best overall performer especially for that role. He will continue to get re-elected for as long as he cares to try, for again no matter how much Suzanne Breen would like it to be different, the vast majority won't condemn him for the sins of the brother for they will all thing "but for the grace of God there go I" - as they say.
Breen doesn't charge G Adams for the crimes of his brother, she charges Adams with forms of deceit and collusion leading to what she terms, irrepairable levels of toxicity for him. It should be mentioned that Breen fails utterly to present a case or a coherent argument and does not come close to what could be described as a forensic analysis of the evidence that she presents, to support her argument.
She presents a mishmash of incidents to prove her case against Adams and not one of those incidents prove anything of the sort.
There's an evident emotional bias in her piece, which blinkers her to just one cynical interpretation of any incident, an interpretation which just happens to support her case :)
Sean Brady dug in and refused to resign. IMHO that was a disastrous decision for the Church in Ireland.
This is more unfortunate as it involves family members and thus is obviously far more emotive. That emotion naturally can blur priorities.
However the length of time involved and the conflicting statements will become problematic for SF. There will be little concern for the real victim, i.e. the girl involved, and the story will be rehashed and spun by political opponents at every important opportunity. In that regard Breen has a point.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2013, 05:40:54 PM
Cardinal Daly is deceased.His successor Cardinal Brady carried out a full investigation into allegations of child abuse and promptly reported his findings.
Unfortunately nobody is available for comment at the moment
We acted on information we believed was correct at the time
I can't comment on individual cases
Obviously it fell way short of expectations
We fulfilled all of our legal requirements
There have been failings in the system however lessons have been learned
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2013, 06:19:11 PM
She presents a mishmash of incidents to prove her case against Adams and not one of those incidents prove anything of the sort.
There's an evident emotional bias in her piece, which blinkers her to just one cynical interpretation of any incident, an interpretation which just happens to support her case :)
Not clear on what you're getting at here Main Street. What case is she trying to prove? And what other ways could incidents in her article be interpreted?
For example, Gerry is reported as having said he had been estranged from his brother for 15 years until 2002-3, however, photographs apparently show him at his brother's wedding 10 years after he said he was supposedly estranged from his brother. The article also states that he maintained regular contact with his brother,
"staying overnight at his home in Dundalk; and Liam actually lived with him for several weeks in his west Belfast home after he had secured a job in a youth centre in Clonard." How many ways is this open to interpretation? I'm genuinely interested if i'm missing something here.
the article says:
"Photographs eight months after Gerry Adams said he had Liam "dumped" from the party show the Sinn Fein president canvassing in June 1997 in the Dail election campaign with the brother he believed was a paedophile, and from whom he was allegedly estranged." Again, what are we to interpret here?
She finishes the article with this line:
The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history. Is she off the mark?
I find it troubling, that Adams knew of the allegations against his brother, and said he believed them to be true, yet Liam Adams still worked with children in two West Belfast youth clubs.
I must be missing something as well as I think she outlines clearly the lies Gerry told throughout this ordeal.
Should Liam Adams have his throat cut open with a homemade knife? Or will ye go for the boiling sugar water down his throat?
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2013, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2013, 06:19:11 PM
She presents a mishmash of incidents to prove her case against Adams and not one of those incidents prove anything of the sort.
There's an evident emotional bias in her piece, which blinkers her to just one cynical interpretation of any incident, an interpretation which just happens to support her case :)
Not clear on what you're getting at here Main Street. What case is she trying to prove? And what other ways could incidents in her article be interpreted?
For example, Gerry is reported as having said he had been estranged from his brother for 15 years until 2002-3, however, photographs apparently show him at his brother's wedding 10 years after he said he was supposedly estranged from his brother. The article also states that he maintained regular contact with his brother, "staying overnight at his home in Dundalk; and Liam actually lived with him for several weeks in his west Belfast home after he had secured a job in a youth centre in Clonard." How many ways is this open to interpretation? I'm genuinely interested if i'm missing something here.
the article says: "Photographs eight months after Gerry Adams said he had Liam "dumped" from the party show the Sinn Fein president canvassing in June 1997 in the Dail election campaign with the brother he believed was a paedophile, and from whom he was allegedly estranged." Again, what are we to interpret here?
She finishes the article with this line: The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history. Is she off the mark?
Adams is not clinging, that's patently ridiculous.
There's nothing for him to survive, there is no challenge to his credibility arising from this case.
It's not a question of what other ways her article can be interpreted, it's her interpretation of evidence that she puts forward as supporting her argument that's seriously at fault.
If we are to trust her judgement, then she has to be accurate in all evidence she finds worthy to present as supporting her case, that Adams is toxic. What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf. Quite frankly, she doesn't meet that standard. Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account, much of what she presents is innuendo.
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2013, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2013, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2013, 06:19:11 PM
She presents a mishmash of incidents to prove her case against Adams and not one of those incidents prove anything of the sort.
There's an evident emotional bias in her piece, which blinkers her to just one cynical interpretation of any incident, an interpretation which just happens to support her case :)
Not clear on what you're getting at here Main Street. What case is she trying to prove? And what other ways could incidents in her article be interpreted?
For example, Gerry is reported as having said he had been estranged from his brother for 15 years until 2002-3, however, photographs apparently show him at his brother's wedding 10 years after he said he was supposedly estranged from his brother. The article also states that he maintained regular contact with his brother, "staying overnight at his home in Dundalk; and Liam actually lived with him for several weeks in his west Belfast home after he had secured a job in a youth centre in Clonard." How many ways is this open to interpretation? I'm genuinely interested if i'm missing something here.
the article says: "Photographs eight months after Gerry Adams said he had Liam "dumped" from the party show the Sinn Fein president canvassing in June 1997 in the Dail election campaign with the brother he believed was a paedophile, and from whom he was allegedly estranged." Again, what are we to interpret here?
She finishes the article with this line: The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history. Is she off the mark?
Adams is not clinging, that's patently ridiculous.
There's nothing for him to survive, there is no challenge to his credibility arising from this case.
It's not a question of what other ways her article can be interpreted, it's her interpretation of evidence that she puts forward as supporting her argument that's seriously at fault.
If we are to trust her judgement, then she has to be accurate in all evidence she finds worthy to present as supporting her case, that Adams is toxic. What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf. Quite frankly, she doesn't meet that standard. Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account, much of what she presents is innuendo.
Agreed that he's not
"clinging" - there's clearly no one in SF that's willing to challenge him.
But how can you say that
"What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf"? Or that
"Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account"? There are photos of him with his brother during the time they were supposedly estranged. Is that not fairly black and white? Is that not evidence of lies?
And of course it challenges his credibility - again, it appears not from within SF or those loyal to the party - but to any objective person, how can it not?
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Quote from: give her dixie on October 02, 2013, 05:35:43 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on October 02, 2013, 03:44:44 PM
Gerry Adams knew the extreme allegations which was put to his brother and still he knew that he was working in youth centres in Belfast. how the f**k has he not come in for more criticism here?
I ask you if this happened anywhere else in the world would the aforementioned person not made to resign?
Indeed. when you consider the other thread running where so many people want to do all sorts of things to a man in custody accused of raping young girls. Here we have a man convicted of raping his daughter over a long period, and his brother, who is the leader of a major political party, covered up for him, lied to the party, and let him work with children again. Unreal. Yet no one is calling for Liam to be on the receiving end of mob justice, or for his brother to resign.
Cardinal Brady covered up child abuse and is still in power. Gerry Adams covered up child abuse, and he too will remain in power. Integrity in positions of power doesn't seem to be on the job description for these men.
Gerry certainly has questions to answer on this and if his brother went on to abuse other children then IMO he's got questions to answer in a court of law.
In Tonys world, if Gerry had instigated an investigation into his brothers child abuse and then handed the findings over to someone else to sit on it, then he'd be in the clear.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2013, 05:40:54 PM
Cardinal Daly is deceased.His successor Cardinal Brady carried out a full investigation into allegations of child abuse and promptly reported his findings.
Was Daly not in charge when McQuillan was molesting all round him in the Armagh area?
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
He could quite easily have been removed from working in those two youth clubs in West Belfast, Adams said he didn't know his brother was working in them, that is highly implausible.
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 03, 2013, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
He could quite easily have been removed from working in those two youth clubs in West Belfast, Adams said he didn't know his brother was working in them, that is highly implausible.
Well Gerry did say he informed them but what else could he do without disclosing what Aine didn't want disclosed.If he told people that Liam was a abuser he would have been asked how and who he abused. The problem with the youth club is with the police who say they knew about Liam yet give Liam a clearance to work there.
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 03, 2013, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
He could quite easily have been removed from working in those two youth clubs in West Belfast, Adams said he didn't know his brother was working in them, that is highly implausible.
Well Gerry did say he informed them but what else could he do without disclosing what Aine didn't want disclosed.If he told people that Liam was a abuser he would have been asked how and who he abused. The problem with the youth club is with the police who say they knew about Liam yet give Liam a clearance to work there.
How dare you say that. The RUC probably did want information on the Adams' family no doubt, but this did not excuse Gerry from doing fcuk all about this after he knew. Sure the peelers were probably laughing their balls of that a member of Adams' family were in such a role. How many times have the IRA or SF took care of their own business over the years?
Quote from: theticklemister on October 03, 2013, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 03, 2013, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
He could quite easily have been removed from working in those two youth clubs in West Belfast, Adams said he didn't know his brother was working in them, that is highly implausible.
Well Gerry did say he informed them but what else could he do without disclosing what Aine didn't want disclosed.If he told people that Liam was a abuser he would have been asked how and who he abused. The problem with the youth club is with the police who say they knew about Liam yet give Liam a clearance to work there.
How dare you say that. The RUC probably did want information on the Adams' family no doubt, but this did not excuse Gerry from doing fcuk all about this after he knew. Sure the peelers were probably laughing their balls of that a member of Adams' family were in such a role. How many times have the IRA or SF took care of their own business over the years?
Yeah and I am going to listen to someone like you :-[you know fcuk all about what Gerry did or didn't do except what your lovable Suzanne says and no matter what i or anyone else try to tell you it means fcuk all because you have your anti shinner blinkers on.Now away and spread your sh1te somewhere else.
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 03, 2013, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
He could quite easily have been removed from working in those two youth clubs in West Belfast, Adams said he didn't know his brother was working in them, that is highly implausible.
Well Gerry did say he informed them but what else could he do without disclosing what Aine didn't want disclosed.If he told people that Liam was a abuser he would have been asked how and who he abused. The problem with the youth club is with the police who say they knew about Liam yet give Liam a clearance to work there.
I would say Adams would be in quite a difficult position here, trying to balance the feelings of the victim with the imperative to do the right thing ethically and legally, a very difficult decision and not one I hope I would ever have to make.
In terms of the commentary there seems to be an alarming gap in the levels of condemnation of G Adams and that of the RUC who were informed of the allegations and did exactly zero about them. Given their complete lack of response when informed of the allegations I'm not sure what G Adams is expected to do...not turn up at his brothers wedding, tell his employers he was a paedo and get him sacked, go on Talkback and tell everybody??? As far as I know none of these are the prescribed sentence for paedophilia or related crimes.
It is clear the correct authorities were informed of these allegations and did exactly nothing about them, it is not G Adams role to report this given that this has already been reported through the proper channels.
Perhaps Suzanne Breen thinks Gerry shoulda got the kneecappers out. Having said that he probably would have for anyone else in West Belfast who admitted this crime and Im sure plenty of people got kneecapped [some of them in the head ;)] for lesser crimes.
The allegation of breaking SF's own rules, talk about scraping around in desperation, I'm sure there were robust procedures for this type of thing in political parties in Ireland in 1987..... hardly. A laughable effort.
This article is a really really poor hatchet job. C-
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on October 03, 2013, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 03, 2013, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
He could quite easily have been removed from working in those two youth clubs in West Belfast, Adams said he didn't know his brother was working in them, that is highly implausible.
Well Gerry did say he informed them but what else could he do without disclosing what Aine didn't want disclosed.If he told people that Liam was a abuser he would have been asked how and who he abused. The problem with the youth club is with the police who say they knew about Liam yet give Liam a clearance to work there.
How dare you say that. The RUC probably did want information on the Adams' family no doubt, but this did not excuse Gerry from doing fcuk all about this after he knew. Sure the peelers were probably laughing their balls of that a member of Adams' family were in such a role. How many times have the IRA or SF took care of their own business over the years?
Yeah and I am going to listen to someone like you :-[you know fcuk all about what Gerry did or didn't do except what your lovable Suzanne says and no matter what i or anyone else try to tell you it means fcuk all because you have your anti shinner blinkers on.Now away and spread your sh1te somewhere else.
It's not about me taking my anti-shinners blinkers off, it's about you putting your pro-shinners shades on here.
Wouldn't matter what political leader did this, this is totally wrong. In the events in Athlone recently I thought this would confirm the point.
Quote from: theticklemister on October 03, 2013, 10:28:53 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on October 03, 2013, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 03, 2013, 09:50:02 AM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
He could quite easily have been removed from working in those two youth clubs in West Belfast, Adams said he didn't know his brother was working in them, that is highly implausible.
Well Gerry did say he informed them but what else could he do without disclosing what Aine didn't want disclosed.If he told people that Liam was a abuser he would have been asked how and who he abused. The problem with the youth club is with the police who say they knew about Liam yet give Liam a clearance to work there.
How dare you say that. The RUC probably did want information on the Adams' family no doubt, but this did not excuse Gerry from doing fcuk all about this after he knew. Sure the peelers were probably laughing their balls of that a member of Adams' family were in such a role. How many times have the IRA or SF took care of their own business over the years?
Yeah and I am going to listen to someone like you :-[you know fcuk all about what Gerry did or didn't do except what your lovable Suzanne says and no matter what i or anyone else try to tell you it means fcuk all because you have your anti shinner blinkers on.Now away and spread your sh1te somewhere else.
It's not about me taking my anti-shinners blinkers off, it's about you putting your pro-shinners shades on here.
Wouldn't matter what political leader did this, this is totally wrong. In the events in Athlone recently I thought this would confirm the point.
Athlone and Liam Adams two completely different scenarios,and again no matter what I say what Gerry did or didn't do you will never want to take any of it on board as I have read you many times giving him and the Shinners grief.Good luck with Francie and the boys.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2013, 09:35:38 PM
Agreed that he's not "clinging" - there's clearly no one in SF that's willing to challenge him.
But how can you say that "What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf"? Or that "Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account"? There are photos of him with his brother during the time they were supposedly estranged. Is that not fairly black and white? Is that not evidence of lies?
And of course it challenges his credibility - again, it appears not from within SF or those loyal to the party - but to any objective person, how can it not?
It's quite amusing watching the various Shinners skirting around your questions. Hopefully an answer will arrive from the hive mind shortly.
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
This will be judged (by non-SF supporters) by today's standards, not in its original context.
We have learned that saying, for example, 'that was the way things were in the 1970s' doesn't wash with the vast majority of the public. Ask Sean Brady.
Could someone explain the difference of what Cardinal Brady did and what Gerry did? I mean they both found out about child sex abuse by a colleague and both of them did nothing about it other than keeping it hush hush. This left the sexual predators free to continue their lives and continue their perversions.
Brady was pillared for his actions in a 50+ page discussion on here but Gerry is deemed to be innocent of any wrongdoing. Could someone explain the difference in that?
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 10:34:42 AM
Athlone and Liam Adams two completely different scenarios,and again no matter what I say what Gerry did or didn't do you will never want to take any of it on board as I have read you many times giving him and the Shinners grief.Good luck with Francie and the boys.
What about Cardinal Brady and Gerry Adams then?
Firstly, I would point out that this whole episode has been a tragedy for Aine Adams and her mother and sister. But also for the siblings of Liam Adams including Gerry. I can sort of see why and where Gerry would have had difficulties, and quite rightly someone has pointed out that the RUC did not care one jot for Aine or the kids in West Belfast they allowed to be in Liam Adams care. But... and theres always a but...the pronouncements of SF and their supporters regarding Sean Brady...also in an invidious situation come to mind. Gerry Adams needs to explain more clearly why he chose to spin this story and lie about his contact with his brother and the chronology of his involvement. He does not need to do that for Suzanne Breen or any other anti SF journo. But he does owe a rational explanation to the party he leads and its voters and potential voters. It all smacks of hypocrisy.
Adams 'wanted to conceal sex abuse allegation'
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/adams-wanted-to-conceal-sex-abuse-allegation-29630587.html
PAUL WILLIAMS SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT – 03 OCTOBER 2013
AINE Adams claims that her uncle Gerry wanted her allegations of sex abuse against her father kept a secret from the police and the public.
And the child abuse victim's mother has revealed that the Sinn Fein leader had given his niece "false hopes" that something was going to be done about her father's behaviour.
Aine Adams and her mother Sally make the claims in a special 'Insight' documentary which is to be re-broadcast tonight on UTV.
The investigation, by award-winning journalist Chris Moore, originally aired in December 2009, contains serious allegations which will ratchet up the controversy surrounding Gerry Adams' role in the abuse scandal.
In the 'Insight' programme Aine describes how she and her mother first told Mr Adams about the allegations in 1987 – but that he took no action for 20 years until the police investigation was re-opened at her request.
The 40-year-old mother also reveals how she was approached by campaigning priest Fr Aidan Troy on behalf of Liam Adams the night before Liam was to be formally interviewed by police. Following the interview, Liam Adams went on the run.
CIRCUS
"He (Fr Troy) said Liam would have met with me and do whatever it took but don't go to the police because the media would have a circus," she claims.
Fr Troy, who gained worldwide recognition for his role in the Holy Cross primary school dispute, refused to comment about the allegations when they were broadcast four years ago.
Aine describes a series of meetings she had with her uncle after she decided to resurrect her original police complaint against her father in 2004.
Gerry Adams said that he was trying to get her father to apologise to her face-to-face but he never turned up.
She says: "I got my eyes opened because when I was going to the meetings it was turning into Liam was the victim. 'Our Liam is sick in the head . . . our Liam can't deal with what he did to you . . . that's why our Liam is sick in the head now . . . our Liam can't cope."
Aine claims her uncle told her: "I'm trying to get him to meet you but you know he's a coward and he may not want to do that (apologise)."
She said that she believed the meetings were being organised in the hope that she would eventually drop her allegations.
She said she told her uncle: "You have failed me again 20 years later (after first telling him about the abuse). I wrote Gerry Adams a letter telling him that I was stopping contact."
Quote from: trileacman on October 03, 2013, 12:27:48 PM
Could someone explain the difference of what Cardinal Brady did and what Gerry did? I mean they both found out about child sex abuse by a colleague and both of them did nothing about it other than keeping it hush hush. This left the sexual predators free to continue their lives and continue their perversions.
Brady was pillared for his actions in a 50+ page discussion on here but Gerry is deemed to be innocent of any wrongdoing. Could someone explain the difference in that?
Firstly Gerry Adams is not a colleague of Liam Adams. He's a brother. Having never been in this situation I cannot say for sure but I'd imagine it would be a much more difficult option to report a sibling to the authorities than it would be to report a colleague or a stranger. I'm not saying this is right or wrong and im sure there are many people on this board, and in the media obviously, of such impeccable moral fibre that they would rush to the authorities at the merest implication of wrongdoing whether the person was there nearset and dearest or not.
Secondly this situation was reported to the authorities by the wronged party herself. She then withdrew the allegation when it became clear that the RUC were primarily interested in using the situation to make political capital. What were expecting Gerry Adams to do in these circumstances?
Btw I am no apologist for Gerry Adams, he has clearly lied about his role in this affair and in other matters, as has been discussed on here ad nauseum, but I do not see evidence here that he covered up this matter.
Quote from: give her dixie on October 03, 2013, 12:57:14 PM
Adams 'wanted to conceal sex abuse allegation'
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/adams-wanted-to-conceal-sex-abuse-allegation-29630587.html
PAUL WILLIAMS SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT – 03 OCTOBER 2013
AINE Adams claims that her uncle Gerry wanted her allegations of sex abuse against her father kept a secret from the police and the public.
And the child abuse victim's mother has revealed that the Sinn Fein leader had given his niece "false hopes" that something was going to be done about her father's behaviour.
Aine Adams and her mother Sally make the claims in a special 'Insight' documentary which is to be re-broadcast tonight on UTV.
The investigation, by award-winning journalist Chris Moore, originally aired in December 2009, contains serious allegations which will ratchet up the controversy surrounding Gerry Adams' role in the abuse scandal.
In the 'Insight' programme Aine describes how she and her mother first told Mr Adams about the allegations in 1987 – but that he took no action for 20 years until the police investigation was re-opened at her request.
The 40-year-old mother also reveals how she was approached by campaigning priest Fr Aidan Troy on behalf of Liam Adams the night before Liam was to be formally interviewed by police. Following the interview, Liam Adams went on the run.
CIRCUS
"He (Fr Troy) said Liam would have met with me and do whatever it took but don't go to the police because the media would have a circus," she claims.
Fr Troy, who gained worldwide recognition for his role in the Holy Cross primary school dispute, refused to comment about the allegations when they were broadcast four years ago.
Aine describes a series of meetings she had with her uncle after she decided to resurrect her original police complaint against her father in 2004.
Gerry Adams said that he was trying to get her father to apologise to her face-to-face but he never turned up.
She says: "I got my eyes opened because when I was going to the meetings it was turning into Liam was the victim. 'Our Liam is sick in the head . . . our Liam can't deal with what he did to you . . . that's why our Liam is sick in the head now . . . our Liam can't cope."
Aine claims her uncle told her: "I'm trying to get him to meet you but you know he's a coward and he may not want to do that (apologise)."
She said that she believed the meetings were being organised in the hope that she would eventually drop her allegations.
She said she told her uncle: "You have failed me again 20 years later (after first telling him about the abuse). I wrote Gerry Adams a letter telling him that I was stopping contact."
Just to clarify, is this a repeat of the original Insight programme from 2009 or is it an updated version of that broadcast with new information??
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 03, 2013, 01:01:16 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 03, 2013, 12:27:48 PM
Could someone explain the difference of what Cardinal Brady did and what Gerry did? I mean they both found out about child sex abuse by a colleague and both of them did nothing about it other than keeping it hush hush. This left the sexual predators free to continue their lives and continue their perversions.
Brady was pillared for his actions in a 50+ page discussion on here but Gerry is deemed to be innocent of any wrongdoing. Could someone explain the difference in that?
Firstly Gerry Adams is not a colleague of Liam Adams. He's a brother. Having never been in this situation I cannot say for sure but I'd imagine it would be a much more difficult option to report a sibling to the authorities than it would be to report a colleague or a stranger. I'm not saying this is right or wrong and im sure there are many people on this board, and in the media obviously, of such impeccable moral fibre that they would rush to the authorities at the merest implication of wrongdoing whether the person was there nearset and dearest or not.
Secondly this situation was reported to the authorities by the wronged party herself. She then withdrew the allegation when it became clear that the RUC were primarily interested in using the situation to make political capital. What were expecting Gerry Adams to do in these circumstances?
Btw I am no apologist for Gerry Adams, he has clearly lied about his role in this affair and in other matters, as has been discussed on here ad nauseum, but I do not see evidence here that he covered up this matter.
I don't see the distinction.
Gerry Adams obviously didn't want to bring shame upon his family and reporting his brother as a sex offender would also have been very difficult. However I think Cardinal Brady wasn't offered such an excuse when he was dragged over the coals. Exposing such a embarrassing and shameful episode isn't easy and I'm sure he knew well the repercussions for the Church, which to a priest, is the nearest thing he has to a family IMO. Neither person acted properly but there is a imbalance in how their actions are viewed. If you believe that Brady failed and has no excuses then it follows that you believe Gerry has none either. However if you think Gerry handled a difficult situation badly then you'd have to say the same for Brady.
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 03, 2013, 01:01:16 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 03, 2013, 12:27:48 PM
Could someone explain the difference of what Cardinal Brady did and what Gerry did? I mean they both found out about child sex abuse by a colleague and both of them did nothing about it other than keeping it hush hush. This left the sexual predators free to continue their lives and continue their perversions.
Brady was pillared for his actions in a 50+ page discussion on here but Gerry is deemed to be innocent of any wrongdoing. Could someone explain the difference in that?
Firstly Gerry Adams is not a colleague of Liam Adams. He's a brother. Having never been in this situation I cannot say for sure but I'd imagine it would be a much more difficult option to report a sibling to the authorities than it would be to report a colleague or a stranger. I'm not saying this is right or wrong and im sure there are many people on this board, and in the media obviously, of such impeccable moral fibre that they would rush to the authorities at the merest implication of wrongdoing whether the person was there nearset and dearest or not.
Secondly this situation was reported to the authorities by the wronged party herself. She then withdrew the allegation when it became clear that the RUC were primarily interested in using the situation to make political capital. What were expecting Gerry Adams to do in these circumstances?
Btw I am no apologist for Gerry Adams, he has clearly lied about his role in this affair and in other matters, as has been discussed on here ad nauseum, but I do not see evidence here that he covered up this matter.
Was it ever confirmed by Aine that she'd asked her uncle Gerry not to mention it and respect her privacy?
If this is true then its a very different scenario to Sean Brady who swore the victims to secrecy to aid the perpetrator.
Did Liam Adams abuse other youngsters?
I'd have thought Gerry could and should have used his considerable influence to ensure his brother didn't work in youth projects in the city.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2013, 12:30:35 PM
Gerry Adams needs to explain more clearly why he chose to spin this story and lie about his contact with his brother and the chronology of his involvement. He does not need to do that for Suzanne Breen or any other anti SF journo. But he does owe a rational explanation to the party he leads and its voters and potential voters. It all smacks of hypocrisy.
So basically he needs to publicly explain himself? I don't think Suzanne Breen is expecting him to be accountable specifically to her.
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
Try again:
"Aine Tyrell has said that she never demanded that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams protect her anonymity over claims that his brother Liam — her father — had repeatedly raped her from when she was four years old. Aine says that she would have been willing at any time to accompany Gerry Adams to meet Sinn Fein and youth groups in west Belfast to warn them about the allegations against her father."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/we-received-no-support-from-gerry-adams-he-didnt-even-send-a-birthday-card-28514105.html
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
The problem with the youth club is with the police who say they knew about Liam yet give Liam a clearance to work there.
That's the classic Cardinal Brady scenario though, isn't it? The message had been passed on - others did nothing, I had fulfilled my role.
Looks like glens abu needs to do his homework a bit better
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2013, 07:15:04 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
Try again:
"Aine Tyrell has said that she never demanded that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams protect her anonymity over claims that his brother Liam — her father — had repeatedly raped her from when she was four years old. Aine says that she would have been willing at any time to accompany Gerry Adams to meet Sinn Fein and youth groups in west Belfast to warn them about the allegations against her father."
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/we-received-no-support-from-gerry-adams-he-didnt-even-send-a-birthday-card-28514105.html
Suzanne Breen again twisting words,read all of the statement yes she said if she knew that her anonymity was the problem she would have told Gerry it didn't matter.How did he know she thought that unless she told him which she didn't.
.
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 07:55:27 PM
Looks like glens abu needs to do his homework a bit better
Did Martin Og give you a shake ;D,v,very poor contribution Saff now away and check what Og want you to say next.
It's fairly obvious glens abu is an apologist for the cover up of paedophilia.
I also think Adams said (he kept changing his version of events so it's hard to nail him down) he didn't know Liam Adams was working as a youth worker.
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:18:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2013, 07:15:04 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
Try again:
"Aine Tyrell has said that she never demanded that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams protect her anonymity over claims that his brother Liam — her father — had repeatedly raped her from when she was four years old. Aine says that she would have been willing at any time to accompany Gerry Adams to meet Sinn Fein and youth groups in west Belfast to warn them about the allegations against her father."
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/we-received-no-support-from-gerry-adams-he-didnt-even-send-a-birthday-card-28514105.html
Suzanne Breen again twisting words,read all of the statement yes she said if she knew that her anonymity was the problem she would have told Gerry it didn't matter.How did he know she thought that unless she told him which she didn't.
.
But you suggested that she had explicitly requested anonymity and that's why Gerry didn't act.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2013, 09:28:30 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:18:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2013, 07:15:04 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
Try again:
"Aine Tyrell has said that she never demanded that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams protect her anonymity over claims that his brother Liam — her father — had repeatedly raped her from when she was four years old. Aine says that she would have been willing at any time to accompany Gerry Adams to meet Sinn Fein and youth groups in west Belfast to warn them about the allegations against her father."
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/we-received-no-support-from-gerry-adams-he-didnt-even-send-a-birthday-card-28514105.html
Suzanne Breen again twisting words,read all of the statement yes she said if she knew that her anonymity was the problem she would have told Gerry it didn't matter.How did he know she thought that unless she told him which she didn't.
.
But you suggested that she had explicitly requested anonymity and that's why Gerry didn't act.
Of course she did she only gave up that in 2009 when she went public on the insight program.
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 09:24:41 PM
It's fairly obvious glens abu is an apologist for the cover up of paedophilia.
I also think Adams said (he kept changing his version of events so it's hard to nail him down) he didn't know Liam Adams was working as a youth worker.
Are you a complete dickhead,I am defending Gerry Adams not Liam,so even if Gerry was in the wrong it doesn't make him a paedophile.Now I know Martin Og is stupid but surely he can give you a better answer than that. :-[
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 09:24:41 PM
It's fairly obvious glens abu is an apologist for the cover up of paedophilia.
I also think Adams said (he kept changing his version of events so it's hard to nail him down) he didn't know Liam Adams was working as a youth worker.
Are you a complete d**khead,I am defending Gerry Adams not Liam,so even if Gerry was in the wrong it doesn't make him a paedophile.Now I know Martin Og is stupid but surely he can give you a better answer than that. :-[
Now now, keep your cool. You are defending someone that knew a paedophile was working in youth clubs in West Belfast. Just because you are a member of Sinn Fein does not mean you do not question the actions of Gerry Adams. It just makes you look like a fool.
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 09:43:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 09:24:41 PM
It's fairly obvious glens abu is an apologist for the cover up of paedophilia.
I also think Adams said (he kept changing his version of events so it's hard to nail him down) he didn't know Liam Adams was working as a youth worker.
Are you a complete d**khead,I am defending Gerry Adams not Liam,so even if Gerry was in the wrong it doesn't make him a paedophile.Now I know Martin Og is stupid but surely he can give you a better answer than that. :-[
Now now, keep your cool. You are defending someone that knew a paedophile was working in youth clubs in West Belfast. Just because you are a member of Sinn Fein does not mean you do not question the actions of Gerry Adams. It just makes you look like a fool.
Glad to see you have grown a set Saff and can now engage, ;)but yes a very proud member of SF and will always defend our Leader when being attacked by wee dissies. ;)
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:51:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 09:43:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 09:24:41 PM
It's fairly obvious glens abu is an apologist for the cover up of paedophilia.
I also think Adams said (he kept changing his version of events so it's hard to nail him down) he didn't know Liam Adams was working as a youth worker.
Are you a complete d**khead,I am defending Gerry Adams not Liam,so even if Gerry was in the wrong it doesn't make him a paedophile.Now I know Martin Og is stupid but surely he can give you a better answer than that. :-[
Now now, keep your cool. You are defending someone that knew a paedophile was working in youth clubs in West Belfast. Just because you are a member of Sinn Fein does not mean you do not question the actions of Gerry Adams. It just makes you look like a fool.
Glad to see you have grown a set Saff and can now engage, ;)but yes a very proud member of SF and will always defend our Leader when being attacked by wee dissies. ;)
Wee dissies, leathal.
Quote from: theticklemister on October 03, 2013, 10:30:43 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:51:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 09:43:34 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 03, 2013, 09:24:41 PM
It's fairly obvious glens abu is an apologist for the cover up of paedophilia.
I also think Adams said (he kept changing his version of events so it's hard to nail him down) he didn't know Liam Adams was working as a youth worker.
Are you a complete d**khead,I am defending Gerry Adams not Liam,so even if Gerry was in the wrong it doesn't make him a paedophile.Now I know Martin Og is stupid but surely he can give you a better answer than that. :-[
Now now, keep your cool. You are defending someone that knew a paedophile was working in youth clubs in West Belfast. Just because you are a member of Sinn Fein does not mean you do not question the actions of Gerry Adams. It just makes you look like a fool.
Glad to see you have grown a set Saff and can now engage, ;)but yes a very proud member of SF and will always defend our Leader when being attacked by wee dissies. ;)
Wee dissies, leathal.
Glad you like it(//)
Gerry Adams is in the wrong because he knew his brother was a potential risk to possible other children, maybe the family didnt want things like this coming out, but he let his brother go on his way, and not keep tabs on him to a extent, how the hell he was involved in youth clubs is deeply worrying and the potential left open to to vulnerable children possible in his care during his work.
If Gerry feels he couldn't report him (which was wrong) he had a responsible to ensure other children were not at risk, this he failed miserably
Any politician worth his salt would resign like the recent SDLP man, but Like McCrea, Murray, McCausland, Patterson, and Robinson before him, responsibility of Politician from the north is sadly lacking
Just recently Conall McDavitt resigned for failing to disclose financial dealings. Gerry failed to disclose his role in covering up child abuse and he is still in power. Shameful really when you look at it .......
Liam Adams claimed 15 years ago: 'I know names of people in child sex ring'
BY FIACH KELLY – 04 OCTOBER 2013
The convicted child abuser brother of Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams claimed 15 years ago he knew of a "very well organised arrangement" of paedophiles.
Liam Adams was convicted earlier this week of raping and sexually assaulting his daughter, Aine Dahlstrom, over a six-year period between 1977 and 1983.
But in an article in the Irish Independent in July 1998 on paedophilia in Co Louth, Liam Adams warned about groups of paedophiles.
The article reads: "Youth community leader Liam Adams says there is a strong local involvement in what he described as a 'very well organised arrangement' which may also have links in Donegal. 'We have names of well-known business people who we are 100pc sure are involved.'
"But he says that the authorities should be doing more to investigate the situation based on the evidence which has emerged so far."
Meanwhile, Gerry Adams has defended his failure to contact the police for nine years about the sexual abuse of his niece.
Gerry Adams was told by Liam in 2000 about the abuse -- but he did not report it to the PSNI until 2009.
Gerry Adams will not face prosecution over claims he withheld information after the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) decided not to launch a case.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/liam-adams-claimed-15-years-ago-i-know-names-of-people-in-child-sex-ring-29632921.html
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2013, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2013, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2013, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2013, 06:19:11 PM
She presents a mishmash of incidents to prove her case against Adams and not one of those incidents prove anything of the sort.
There's an evident emotional bias in her piece, which blinkers her to just one cynical interpretation of any incident, an interpretation which just happens to support her case :)
Not clear on what you're getting at here Main Street. What case is she trying to prove? And what other ways could incidents in her article be interpreted?
For example, Gerry is reported as having said he had been estranged from his brother for 15 years until 2002-3, however, photographs apparently show him at his brother's wedding 10 years after he said he was supposedly estranged from his brother. The article also states that he maintained regular contact with his brother, "staying overnight at his home in Dundalk; and Liam actually lived with him for several weeks in his west Belfast home after he had secured a job in a youth centre in Clonard." How many ways is this open to interpretation? I'm genuinely interested if i'm missing something here.
the article says: "Photographs eight months after Gerry Adams said he had Liam "dumped" from the party show the Sinn Fein president canvassing in June 1997 in the Dail election campaign with the brother he believed was a paedophile, and from whom he was allegedly estranged." Again, what are we to interpret here?
She finishes the article with this line: The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history. Is she off the mark?
Adams is not clinging, that's patently ridiculous.
There's nothing for him to survive, there is no challenge to his credibility arising from this case.
It's not a question of what other ways her article can be interpreted, it's her interpretation of evidence that she puts forward as supporting her argument that's seriously at fault.
If we are to trust her judgement, then she has to be accurate in all evidence she finds worthy to present as supporting her case, that Adams is toxic. What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf. Quite frankly, she doesn't meet that standard. Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account, much of what she presents is innuendo.
Agreed that he's not "clinging" - there's clearly no one in SF that's willing to challenge him.
But how can you say that "What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf"? Or that "Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account"? There are photos of him with his brother during the time they were supposedly estranged. Is that not fairly black and white? Is that not evidence of lies?
And of course it challenges his credibility - again, it appears not from within SF or those loyal to the party - but to any objective person, how can it not?
Are you objective Maguire? You have no axe to grind with Sinn Fein or Adams?
For my part, I am no Sinn Feiner and am not a member or supporter of any political party or have any great gra for any politician in Ireland.
Can you say the same?
I am quite aware of the questions to do with child abuse and the concerted criminal cover ups.
Adams has already answered questions in detail and concerning his 'estrangement' in court. You have to read those questions and answers. You also have to refer back to the original interviews with Adams and hear what Adams has actually said in them. Why on earth should I take Breen's word on it? I make up my own mind based on hearing and reading what Adams has said. This is a pathetic c**k and bull effort to sensationalise this sordid affair.
Breen is not just poor, she is sensationalist and poor.
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
Reading back through this thread Leo, past and present, you would think that Suzanne Breen was on trail and not Liam Adams who was convicted of raping a child, and the subsequent cover up by bis brother Gerry
Stormont system used 3,000 times in six months in bid to access pornographic websites
BY ADRIAN RUTHERFORD – 03 OCTOBER 2013
Nearly 3,000 attempts were made to access pornographic websites from computers at Stormont in the last six months, it can be revealed.
Around 16 visits a day were recorded to pages with "adult content" via the internal system which is used by MLAs and their staff.
The Assembly said all the requests were blocked, and no inappropriate material was actually viewed.
While it is possible that some pages may have been accessed accidentally, it will raise questions about whether internet access is being misused by some people.
Ukip MLA David McNarry said he was disgusted and called for stricter rules on internet access.
"It is almost institutionalised porn-seeking – it is a very serious abuse of trust," he said.
"I would not like to think that anyone working for me and operating a computer is looking at pornographic material.
"A directive should go out to all MLAs and staff at the Assembly that this is unacceptable and must stop."
According to the Assembly, 2,970 attempts have been made to access websites with "adult content" since April.
The figures were disclosed following a Freedom of Information request by the Belfast Telegraph.
The response said: "In the last six months 2,970 requests were made to access websites classified as containing adult content.
"All 2,970 requests for this category of content were blocked by the Northern Ireland Assembly firewalls. During this period no websites classified as containing adult content were accessed by Assembly computers in Parliament Buildings."
The Assembly was asked if there were possible reasons for adult websites being accessed other than a deliberate attempt to view porn, but did not comment.
It was also unable to say how many people have access to Parliament Buildings' computer system.
Last month it emerged over 300,000 attempts were made to access pornographic websites at the Houses of Parliament in the past year.
Almost 850 attempts to click on adult websites were blocked at Westminster each day.
One particularly popular site was 'Out of Town Affairs', a dating site for those wanting to engage in extra-marital affairs, which garnered 52,000 hits in seven months.
The figure covered devices linked to the Parliamentary Network, including those used by MPs and peers, their staff and other employees.
Around 5,000 people currently work on the parliamentary estate.
It was uncomfortable reading for David Cameron, who has demanded that internet service providers do more to stop children viewing inappropriate content online.
The Prime Minister wants an "opt-in" system so customers have to ask service providers not to block adult content.
Online pornography was "corroding childhood" and "distorting" children's understanding of sex and relationships, he argued.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/stormont-system-used-3000-times-in-six-months-in-bid-to-access-pornographic-websites-29630029.html
How Liam Adams' daughter Aine challenged the most powerful republican family on the island
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/how-liam-adams-daughter-aine-challenged-the-most-powerful-republican-family-on-the-island-29626237.html
BY SUZANNE BREEN – 02 OCTOBER 2013
Aine Dahlstrom is a woman of the most amazing courage and determination. While it's never easy for any victim of rape or child abuse, she had to take on the most powerful people and organisations in society in her fight for justice.
Little did she know when, as a 13-year-old girl scribbling down the words on a school jotter – "mummy, my daddy makes me sleep with him" – the huge battle that lay ahead of her.
Sometimes it seemed like everything was stacked against her.
The police, social services, and her uncle Gerry Adams were all hopelessly inadequate in their response to what Aine had gone through.
Sometimes the pressure on her took its toll.
On the first day Aine was due to give evidence in court, she was so stressed she took pains in her arms and chest and had to be taken to hospital.
But she was back in court the next day giving evidence, and never for one second did she think of giving up. Reporting to the police what her father had done to her was a brave move for a young teenage girl in 1987.
Even in cases of child abuse, talking to the police carried risks for people in republican areas.
Aine went to police because she'd learned her father had a daughter from a new relationship and she was worried for the child.
But the response Aine and her mother told the court they received from some police – more interested in asking for information on IRA activities than investigating the abuse – was abysmal.
Fearing their lives were in danger, they reluctantly withdrew their complaint.
They told the court they were effectively abandoned by police and social services – who also were informed of the abuse – and left with no one in the world to trust except themselves.
To everybody else, the issue was dead.
But, even after her previous experience, Aine returned to the police in 2006 and asked to have the case reopened.
Detectives didn't seek a face-to-face meeting with her until eight months later, she claimed.
"I believe they didn't want to reopen a can of worms," she said.
Aine has lodged a complaint with the Police Ombudsman.
But Aine wasn't just standing up against the state. By making a complaint against a member of the most powerful republican family on this island, Aine was challenging other interests.
While Gerry Adams said he believed her allegations against her father, he was far from supportive, she claimed.
After she and her mother travelled with him to Donegal to confront her father, he didn't offer the help that would be expected from a concerned uncle.
He made no contact with her to see how she was coping. There wasn't even a birthday or Christmas card.
"The only present I ever received from him was a signed copy of his autobiography, Before The Dawn, in 1996," she said.
"I was horrified when I opened the book and read the foreword. He had thanked all his brothers and sisters, 'especially Liam'.
"I threw the book in the bin. It made me feel sick. Imagine sending the person you believed had been abused by your brother a book thanking that brother."
Liam Adams worked with several youth groups in Belfast and Dundalk.
Again, it was Aine doing the job that the state should have been doing in terms of protecting young people potentially at risk. She had heard that her father was working with youth groups in west Belfast but didn't know which ones.
She raised it with Gerry Adams, telling him she feared children were at risk.
She said he told her that working with young people was "Liam's way of trying to make up to the community for what he'd done" to her.
"I considered standing on the streets of west Belfast handing out leaflets saying, 'Liam Adams is a paedophile'. That's how desperate I was," she said.
When she found out the identity of the groups concerned, she visited them herself and expressed her fears.
Yesterday's verdict should bring Aine some personal closure. But she was right yesterday when she said that Liam Adams' conviction wasn't a victory or cause for celebration.
That such a heroic and persistent effort was required from one solitary west Belfast woman to bring a paedophile to account casts all those who let her down over the decades in an appalling light.
Quote from: give her dixie on October 04, 2013, 02:15:18 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
Reading back through this thread Leo, past and present, you would thing that Suzanne Breen was on trail and not Liam Adams who was convicted of raping a child, and the subsequent cover up by bis brother Gerry
It's an age old Sinn Fein tactic, smear and impugn the reputation of anyone that isn't playing ball.
Quote from: Main Street on October 04, 2013, 01:59:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2013, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2013, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2013, 07:12:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 02, 2013, 06:19:11 PM
She presents a mishmash of incidents to prove her case against Adams and not one of those incidents prove anything of the sort.
There's an evident emotional bias in her piece, which blinkers her to just one cynical interpretation of any incident, an interpretation which just happens to support her case :)
Not clear on what you're getting at here Main Street. What case is she trying to prove? And what other ways could incidents in her article be interpreted?
For example, Gerry is reported as having said he had been estranged from his brother for 15 years until 2002-3, however, photographs apparently show him at his brother's wedding 10 years after he said he was supposedly estranged from his brother. The article also states that he maintained regular contact with his brother, "staying overnight at his home in Dundalk; and Liam actually lived with him for several weeks in his west Belfast home after he had secured a job in a youth centre in Clonard." How many ways is this open to interpretation? I'm genuinely interested if i'm missing something here.
the article says: "Photographs eight months after Gerry Adams said he had Liam "dumped" from the party show the Sinn Fein president canvassing in June 1997 in the Dail election campaign with the brother he believed was a paedophile, and from whom he was allegedly estranged." Again, what are we to interpret here?
She finishes the article with this line: The Louth TD continues to cling onto the reins of power but it is impossible to believe that any other political leader on this island would survive such a damning history. Is she off the mark?
Adams is not clinging, that's patently ridiculous.
There's nothing for him to survive, there is no challenge to his credibility arising from this case.
It's not a question of what other ways her article can be interpreted, it's her interpretation of evidence that she puts forward as supporting her argument that's seriously at fault.
If we are to trust her judgement, then she has to be accurate in all evidence she finds worthy to present as supporting her case, that Adams is toxic. What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf. Quite frankly, she doesn't meet that standard. Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account, much of what she presents is innuendo.
Agreed that he's not "clinging" - there's clearly no one in SF that's willing to challenge him.
But how can you say that "What she has presented is not evidence of guilt, lies or hypocrisy on Adams' behalf"? Or that "Adams has already given account and her level of evidence has not breached that account"? There are photos of him with his brother during the time they were supposedly estranged. Is that not fairly black and white? Is that not evidence of lies?
And of course it challenges his credibility - again, it appears not from within SF or those loyal to the party - but to any objective person, how can it not?
Are you objective Maguire? You have no axe to grind with Sinn Fein or Adams?
For my part, I am no Sinn Feiner and am not a member or supporter of any political party or have any great gra for any politician in Ireland.
Can you say the same?
Am I objective? I'm no fan of SF, but I think i'm capable of looking at the information on the table and making a reasonable judgement. Like yourself, i'm not (or never have been) a member of any political party. I'd have preferences, but no great loyalty - i've cast my ballot for more that one party since i've been able to vote.
Quote from: Main Street on October 04, 2013, 01:59:02 AM
I am quite aware of the questions to do with child abuse and the concerted criminal cover ups.
Adams has already answered questions in detail and concerning his 'estrangement' in court. You have to read those questions and answers. You also have to refer back to the original interviews with Adams and hear what Adams has actually said in them. Why on earth should I take Breen's word on it? I make up my own mind based on hearing and reading what Adams has said. This is a pathetic c**k and bull effort to sensationalise this sordid affair.
Breen is not just poor, she is sensationalist and poor.
As for Adams' answers in court - and the original interviews - i'd have to read them again, but I do recall them being unconvicing at the time.
And yes, I agree that there was a definite element of sensationalism about Breen's article - particularly the headlines and the conclusion - but the substance of the seemed fairly consistent with what was established in the 2010 interview and subsequent court proceedings. But happy if you can point to any contradictions or inaccuracies - i'm open to correction.
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2013, 09:28:30 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:18:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 03, 2013, 07:15:04 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 03, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 03, 2013, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 03, 2013, 12:28:53 AM
Having read back through these threads I am aghast at the apologist mentality that is so myopic that SF posters fail to grasp the enormity of human damgae caused by paedophila
I'm surprised anyone is surprised. Reading all their posts its clear that informing on his brother would have been worse than not informing, in their mindset.
Don't be surprised because you and Leo seemed to have missed the point[although I think there is an excuse for him]Gerry Adams had to respect the wishes of the abused and while she want anonymity he couldn't go about telling the world that his brother was a child abuser.What was he to say when he was asked how did he know or who did Liam abuse,break her anonymity and give her name,ffs get real here.This was a very difficult family matter to handle,while at the same time respecting the abused child's wishes.Think there is a lot of very sick sad people on this board who are prepared to use this child's abuse to get a dig at Gerry Adams.I expect it from the likes of Suzanne Breen but others on here who claim to be concerned with Human rights in other countries should look closer to home.
Try again:
"Aine Tyrell has said that she never demanded that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams protect her anonymity over claims that his brother Liam — her father — had repeatedly raped her from when she was four years old. Aine says that she would have been willing at any time to accompany Gerry Adams to meet Sinn Fein and youth groups in west Belfast to warn them about the allegations against her father."
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/we-received-no-support-from-gerry-adams-he-didnt-even-send-a-birthday-card-28514105.html
Suzanne Breen again twisting words,read all of the statement yes she said if she knew that her anonymity was the problem she would have told Gerry it didn't matter.How did he know she thought that unless she told him which she didn't.
.
But you suggested that she had explicitly requested anonymity and that's why Gerry didn't act.
Of course she did she only gave up that in 2009 when she went public on the insight program.
Read the link above:
"Aine Tyrell has said that she never demanded that Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams protect her anonymity" Is she lying? If not, who is?
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?
I ma no SF lover but I find it very harsh that the focus is on a relative of the sex offender and not the sex offender. The daughter mentions Adams sending her a book in 1996 and how she couldn;t believe he would do that, but when is he first (according to the daughter) meant to have been made aware of the accusations against his brother?
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?
Is there any circumstance where a family member had been abused and the paedophile was still at large that you would not do something about it?
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?
It is very simple, Gerry Adams knew his brother was a paedophile, yet he allowed him to work in two youth clubs in the constituency he lived and was an MP for.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 04, 2013, 07:34:19 AM
Am I objective? I'm no fan of SF, but I think i'm capable of looking at the information on the table and making a reasonable judgement. Like yourself, i'm not (or never have been) a member of any political party. I'd have preferences, but no great loyalty - i've cast my ballot for more that one party since i've been able to vote.
You consider yourself capable of objectivity on matters to do with Sinn Fein?
Well, if I was to measure up what you have written about Sinn Fein on this board I'd say the vast majority would be taking a jaundiced view of SF and if I compared it to what you write about other nationalist politicians in the north,
would I get a more favourable impression of that?
QuoteAnd yes, I agree that there was a definite element of sensationalism about Breen's article - particularly the headlines and the conclusion - but the substance of the seemed fairly consistent with what was established in the 2010 interview and subsequent court proceedings. But happy if you can point to any contradictions or inaccuracies - i'm open to correction.
You need to be more forensic than that. Primarily, you are siding with Breen's interpretation and you assume that you remember Adam's testimony and that you remember it objectively.
Adams not going to the police before 2006 is no issue with me, I can accept his explanation. Not going to the police in 1987 when he accepted that his niece was abused by his brother, definitely no issue with that.
Adams' relationship with his brother? yes there was some contact but quite obviously and it's beyond dispute, that their relationship was estranged.
By my understanding of estrangement, Gerry was estranged from his brother. No evidence presented by Breen contradicts that Adam's was estranged from his brother. But perhaps Gerry's relationship with his brother appears a normal brotherly relationship to you?
We get another piece reported on the BBC news.
'Gerry said that he told the authorities at a youth project in Clonard, where Liam Adams worked part-time between 1998 and 2003, about the allegations against his brother.
The authorities at Clonard have said they have no record of any complaint against Liam Adams.'We have verbal evidence of a statement from Adams. The Clonard people might be saying, yeah we heard him but he didn't write it down in a formal letter or we didn't write it down after he told us or if we did write it down we can't find it and even if we could find it, we won't, because it will put us in a bad light. So better we just say we have no record of it. And when we say we have no record of it, it's the truth, we are not telling a lie.
You, with a long history on this board of being 'antaganostic' against SF will automatically believe that Gerry is being dubious and Clonard's answer damns Gerry. You regard the Clonard answer as being valid evidence to disprove gerry's statement.
The objective perspective is, Gerry's account stands, there's no solid reason to disbelieve him. Gerry's account of informing Clonard is just as valid as them saying we have no record of it, and it could be more valid.
One can certainly question his efforts to conceal his brother's crimes from coming out into the public arena.
Quote from: give her dixie on October 04, 2013, 02:19:56 AM
Stormont system used 3,000 times in six months in bid to access pornographic websites
BY ADRIAN RUTHERFORD – 03 OCTOBER 2013
Nearly 3,000 attempts were made to access pornographic websites from computers at Stormont in the last six months, it can be revealed.
Around 16 visits a day were recorded to pages with "adult content" via the internal system which is used by MLAs and their staff.
The Assembly said all the requests were blocked, and no inappropriate material was actually viewed.
While it is possible that some pages may have been accessed accidentally, it will raise questions about whether internet access is being misused by some people.
Ukip MLA David McNarry said he was disgusted and called for stricter rules on internet access.
"It is almost institutionalised porn-seeking – it is a very serious abuse of trust," he said.
"I would not like to think that anyone working for me and operating a computer is looking at pornographic material.
"A directive should go out to all MLAs and staff at the Assembly that this is unacceptable and must stop."
According to the Assembly, 2,970 attempts have been made to access websites with "adult content" since April.
The figures were disclosed following a Freedom of Information request by the Belfast Telegraph.
The response said: "In the last six months 2,970 requests were made to access websites classified as containing adult content.
"All 2,970 requests for this category of content were blocked by the Northern Ireland Assembly firewalls. During this period no websites classified as containing adult content were accessed by Assembly computers in Parliament Buildings."
The Assembly was asked if there were possible reasons for adult websites being accessed other than a deliberate attempt to view porn, but did not comment.
It was also unable to say how many people have access to Parliament Buildings' computer system.
Last month it emerged over 300,000 attempts were made to access pornographic websites at the Houses of Parliament in the past year.
Almost 850 attempts to click on adult websites were blocked at Westminster each day.
One particularly popular site was 'Out of Town Affairs', a dating site for those wanting to engage in extra-marital affairs, which garnered 52,000 hits in seven months.
The figure covered devices linked to the Parliamentary Network, including those used by MPs and peers, their staff and other employees.
Around 5,000 people currently work on the parliamentary estate.
It was uncomfortable reading for David Cameron, who has demanded that internet service providers do more to stop children viewing inappropriate content online.
The Prime Minister wants an "opt-in" system so customers have to ask service providers not to block adult content.
Online pornography was "corroding childhood" and "distorting" children's understanding of sex and relationships, he argued.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/stormont-system-used-3000-times-in-six-months-in-bid-to-access-pornographic-websites-29630029.html
Private Eye had something on that recently. It looks more like an IT failure- couple of PCs infected and automatically accessing porn- botnet stuff - rather than MPS actually jerking off in Westminster.
I read somewhere that internet porn accounts for 65% of time spent on line world wide its twice as big as any search engine
Quote from: Main Street on October 04, 2013, 01:23:09 PM
We have verbal evidence of a statement from Adams. The Clonard people might be saying, yeah we heard him but he didn't write it down in a formal letter or we didn't write it down after he told us or if we did write it down we can't find it and even if we could find it, we won't, because it will put us in a bad light. So better we just say we have no record of it. And when we say we have no record of it, it's the truth, we are not telling a lie.
You, with a long history on this board of being 'antaganostic' against SF will automatically believe that Gerry is being dubious and Clonard's answer damns Gerry. You regard the Clonard answer as being valid evidence to disprove gerry's statement.
The objective perspective is, Gerry's account stands, there's no solid reason to disbelieve him. Gerry's account of informing Clonard is just as valid as them saying we have no record of it, and it could be more valid.
One can certainly question his efforts to conceal his brother's crimes from coming out into the public arena.
That's a torturous way of looking at it. They can't prove he didn't say it - you can't prove a negative - so the onus is on him to prove he did say it.
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 04, 2013, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?
It is very simple, Gerry Adams knew his brother was a paedophile, yet he allowed him to work in two youth clubs in the constituency he lived and was an MP for.
Is there any evidence that he abused or was interesting in abusing anyone else beside his daughter? I know that is a very callous statement, and I don't mean to belittle the pain felt by Liam Adams daughter. Has Liam Adams other children disowned him?
PS. I have an acquaintance who had to give evidence against his father who had killed my acquaintance's mother. Even though he hated his father, it was not as straight forward as you might think.
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?
Yes there are circumstances, but it would be wrong and it would be the coward within me, and I would have to live with the decision forever and accept the fall out when it went public.
Did Gerry keep this quiet to not damage the political progress of the time?
I can understand Gerry Adams struggling with what to do. I couldn't say with certainty that I could bring myself to shop one of my own family members. However, if Gerry Adams came out and said "I couldn't bring myself to shop one of my own family members", his political career would be killed stone dead. So instead we get the classic Shinner response: admit there were mistakes in the general (we condemn ALL violence), refuse to admit any mistake in the particular (reject the politics of the latest atrocity), and shoot the messenger - figuratively or literally, it depends on the circumstances.
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 04, 2013, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?
It is very simple, Gerry Adams knew his brother was a paedophile, yet he allowed him to work in two youth clubs in the constituency he lived and was an MP for.
Is there any evidence that he abused or was interesting in abusing anyone else beside his daughter? I know that is a very callous statement, and I don't mean to belittle the pain felt by Liam Adams daughter. Has Liam Adams other children disowned him?
PS. I have an acquaintance who had to give evidence against his father who had killed my acquaintance's mother. Even though he hated his father, it was not as straight forward as you might think.
This is fair comment as family is family. One the one hand Liam is his brother, on the other Áine is his niece. This would be very difficult in any family.
Most reasonable people could understand the personal conflicts this might cause.
However Liam worked for youth groups after Gerry was made aware of the abuse. This is a serious problem for Gerry no matter how you look at it.
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 04, 2013, 12:09:15 PM
I ma no SF lover but I find it very harsh that the focus is on a relative of the sex offender and not the sex offender. The daughter mentions Adams sending her a book in 1996 and how she couldn;t believe he would do that, but when is he first (according to the daughter) meant to have been made aware of the accusations against his brother?
Something like 1987
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 04, 2013, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?
It is very simple, Gerry Adams knew his brother was a paedophile, yet he allowed him to work in two youth clubs in the constituency he lived and was an MP for.
Is there any evidence that he abused or was interesting in abusing anyone else beside his daughter? I know that is a very callous statement, and I don't mean to belittle the pain felt by Liam Adams daughter. Has Liam Adams other children disowned him?
Is this relevant? Anyway, i'm fairly sure I heard that his other children testified or gave statements in his defence, i.e. that none of the others were abused.
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 04, 2013, 12:09:15 PM
I ma no SF lover but I find it very harsh that the focus is on a relative of the sex offender and not the sex offender.
I assume you were both uncomfortable with the attention on Cardinal Brady, when it was Brendan Smyth who was the offender?
Quote from: Main Street on October 04, 2013, 01:23:09 PM
QuoteAnd yes, I agree that there was a definite element of sensationalism about Breen's article - particularly the headlines and the conclusion - but the substance of the seemed fairly consistent with what was established in the 2010 interview and subsequent court proceedings. But happy if you can point to any contradictions or inaccuracies - i'm open to correction.
You need to be more forensic than that. Primarily, you are siding with Breen's interpretation and you assume that you remember Adam's testimony and that you remember it objectively.
Adams not going to the police before 2006 is no issue with me, I can accept his explanation. Not going to the police in 1987 when he accepted that his niece was abused by his brother, definitely no issue with that.
Gerry went to the police in 2007, but he withheld farirly important information... he went back to the police in 2009, on the eve of the UTV programme, and told them that his brother had admitted what he had done:
The court also heard how in 2007 Mr Adams told police about how 20 years earlier, in Buncrana in Co Donegal, his brother Liam Adams denied that he had sexually assaulted his (Liam's) daughter Aine.
This statement was made in June 2007, Eilis McDermott QC, for Liam Adams, told the court. But it wasn't until October 2009 – "two years and four months later" – that Gerry Adams told police Liam Adams had admitted to him in 2000 that he sexually assaulted Ms Adams.
Ms McDermott said it appeared that Mr Adams and his solicitor had withheld information from the police between June 2007 and October 2009 about Liam Adams's alleged confession.
"Not only were you withholding information from the police but your solicitor, it appears, was withholding information for two years and four months," she said.
"You went to the police on this occasion [October 2009] because you knew that the question of your withholding information was going to become a matter of public debate," added Ms McDermott.http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/gerry-adams-said-his-statement-to-police-was-not-motivated-by-tv-programme-1.1369102
Does that sound credible to you?
Quote from: Main Street on October 04, 2013, 01:23:09 PM
Adams' relationship with his brother? yes there was some contact but quite obviously and it's beyond dispute, that their relationship was estranged.
By my understanding of estrangement, Gerry was estranged from his brother. No evidence presented by Breen contradicts that Adam's was estranged from his brother. But perhaps Gerry's relationship with his brother appears a normal brotherly relationship to you?
Here was Gerry's explanation:
The prosecution put it to Mr Adams that he had said he had not been in contact with his brother for 15 years from 1987 until 2002, while photographs and other evidence suggested they had been in contact on a number of occasions.
"Well your grasp of the calendar of these events is better than mine," Gerry Adams said, adding that the separation may not have been as long as 15 years.
Mr Adams told the court that he "did have a problem with exact timelines" for events, but denied that he had lied to a journalist about his brother in an effort to distance himself from him.http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/10/03/in-his-brothers-child-rape-case-gerry-adams-faces-his-own-appalling-vista/comment-page-1/#comment-1410181
Quote from: Main Street on October 04, 2013, 01:23:09 PM
We get another piece reported on the BBC news.
'Gerry said that he told the authorities at a youth project in Clonard, where Liam Adams worked part-time between 1998 and 2003, about the allegations against his brother.
The authorities at Clonard have said they have no record of any complaint against Liam Adams.'
We have verbal evidence of a statement from Adams. The Clonard people might be saying, yeah we heard him but he didn't write it down in a formal letter or we didn't write it down after he told us or if we did write it down we can't find it and even if we could find it, we won't, because it will put us in a bad light. So better we just say we have no record of it. And when we say we have no record of it, it's the truth, we are not telling a lie.
You, with a long history on this board of being 'antaganostic' against SF will automatically believe that Gerry is being dubious and Clonard's answer damns Gerry. You regard the Clonard answer as being valid evidence to disprove gerry's statement.
The objective perspective is, Gerry's account stands, there's no solid reason to disbelieve him. Gerry's account of informing Clonard is just as valid as them saying we have no record of it, and it could be more valid.
One can certainly question his efforts to conceal his brother's crimes from coming out into the public arena.
When you say "We have verbal evidence of a statement from Adams" you mean that Gerry says he did it, right? That's the extent of the evidence?
Anyway, i'm not necessarily basing my opinion on whether he did or didn't inform those in Clonard. But, say Gerry
is telling the truth, if he could see that those in Clonard didn't take action, was it enough for him to consider that he had done his duty? Is that not like saying that Sean Brady had done his duty when he reported the Brendan Smyth details to his superiors, and it was irrelevant that he did nothing when he could see that Smyth continued to work up the road?
We know from his IRA denials that Gerry always tells the truth, don't we>
If Gerry told the truth his beard would fall off !!!!
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2013, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 04, 2013, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, nor the full story in the papers, but I am slightly uncomfortable with the vilification that Gerry Adams is getting.
The question I would like to ask everyone: Is there is any circumstance where you knew your brother murdered or raped someone but you would not report it to the police?
It is very simple, Gerry Adams knew his brother was a paedophile, yet he allowed him to work in two youth clubs in the constituency he lived and was an MP for.
Is there any evidence that he abused or was interesting in abusing anyone else beside his daughter? I know that is a very callous statement, and I don't mean to belittle the pain felt by Liam Adams daughter. Has Liam Adams other children disowned him?
PS. I have an acquaintance who had to give evidence against his father who had killed my acquaintance's mother. Even though he hated his father, it was not as straight forward as you might think.
This is fair comment as family is family. One the one hand Liam is his brother, on the other Áine is his niece. This would be very difficult in any family.
Most reasonable people could understand the personal conflicts this might cause.
However Liam worked for youth groups after Gerry was made aware of the abuse. This is a serious problem for Gerry no matter how you look at it.
This is the killer blow. Even if felt he couldn't report his brother to the police, which on one level is understandable, did he do anything to ensure the brother could cause no further harm? It appears he didn't and it may be that he was prepared to sacrifice the neice for the bigger prize, his political career.
Even without outing his brother he surely could have used his considerable influence and had him removed from Clonard YC and the Blackie Centre, and told to forget about working in anymore youth clubs.
The man has lost the plot anyhow, just need to follow him on twitter to realise that, Pearse Doherty needs to take over
This cross examination of Gerry Adams by Ms McDermott QC at the Crown Court in Belfast on Monday April 22nd 2013 is well worth reading in order to plainly see where Adams lied and covered up for his abusing brother.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/08_10_2013_cross_exam_gerry_adams.pdf
It's a bit late in the day for Adams to whinge about media treatment
Friday, October 18, 2013
IT WOULD be an extraordinary turn of events if Gerry Adams was to see his political career ended by the gross misjudgment he exercised in his greatly delayed reporting of his niece's allegations of sexual abuse against her father, his brother Liam.
By Matt Cooper
It is not that the Sinn Féin leader's failures in dealing appropriately with what he knew when he knew it are not serious, because they clearly are, and that the sexual abuse of children is not an exceptionally serious matter, which most clearly it is.
But it is still strange that a man whose career has prospered despite being, at best, an apologist for the many murders committed by the IRA, and at worst, one of its leading commanders, something he denies, would be brought down by this, rather than by the death and destruction the IRA carried out with Sinn Féin's endorsement.
Adams is in whinge mode at present, outraged that his political enemies are out to get him and that the media is following the story of how he dealt with Liam Adams's rape of his daughter Áine, and the eventual conviction, in great detail.
But what does he expect? Of course his political opponents are trying to take advantage but that doesn't mean that the points they make aren't correct and valid. Maybe some elements of the media are making up for being too soft on Adams in recent times — he and Sinn Féin have been very quick to demonise the media as "anti-peace process" when not playing along with the Sinn Féin peacemaker agenda and it got to some journalists who have pulled their punches in cowardly fashion — but again, coverage of this issue is legitimate and necessary.
As it happens, it is easy enough to understand why Adams didn't go to the police in 1987. Given the depth of antipathy between Adams and the RUC at the time it would have been extraordinary had Adams decided to turn his brother over to the RUC. Áine Adams, as a 14-year-old, withdrew her complaint to the police, apparently fearing that they would use it to gather intelligence on republicans in her family, including her uncle Gerry.
Who put that in her mind, at a time when she wanted justice and protection? Was she old enough and canny enough to realise that the IRA remained very active and that informing against one of its members was punishable by death? There is no suggestion that Liam Adams was an IRA man. Remarkably though, Gerry Adams told an inquiry conducted by Declan Kearney, the Sinn Féin chairman, that he only became aware that Liam was a party member in 1997, when Liam lived and worked in Dundalk.
Apparently Gerry ordered his brother to leave the party, but did not warn local members. He has subsequently said that he always believed Áine despite Liam's denials in 1987. If so, why didn't he act earlier against his brother? His problems grow though because of what happened this century. Liam Adams apparently told Gerry in 2000 that one aspect of the allegation was true. That was the time that the Sinn Féin leader, in the peace process era, should have reported his brother.
He didn't. Instead when Liam subsequently moved back to Belfast why did Gerry let him live with him and help get a job in a youth club associated with Clonard monastery? And why did Gerry allow Liam to reinvolve himself with Sinn Féin in west Belfast in 2000 if that was the year that Liam made his limited confession of sexual abuse, short of rape, to Gerry? This was also the same year Sinn Féin introduced guidelines to deal with allegations of sexual and child abuse but Adams did not inform his own party of the most serious allegations against his brother until they were made public in 2007.
To have assumed that Liam was not a potential danger to other children was another frightening misjudgment, one that Gerry was not qualified to make.
Gerry Adams has attempted to make much of the fact that he reported Liam to the police in 2009 and that he subsequently gave evidence against him at his criminal trial. The latter action stands to his credit; it must have been very hard for one sibling to give evidence against another, even if it was the right thing to do.
However, it has been confirmed that he did only after he knew that UTV was about to broadcast a major documentary item on the incest within his family. That decision raises questions about cynicism. It is also the case that Adams was photographed, laughing, in the company of his brother after 2000.
The way Liam Adams moved around various parts of Sinn Féin, north and south, prior to that date and went to the United States for a while, bears striking resemblance to the way the Catholic Church in Ireland moved its errant members around from parish to parish, allowing them to evade justice but also putting more and more children at risk from their evil.
Back in 2009, when commenting about child abuse by clerics in the Dublin diocese, the Sinn Féin vice president Mary Lou McDonald, said anybody found to have covered up the abuse of children should be arrested and face the full rigours of the law. "Anyone, including gardaí, found to be complicit in the cover-up of child abuse must be arrested and made to face the full rigours of the law," she said.
In March 2010, Martin McGuinness, alongside Gerry Adams the most important person in Sinn Féin, said that Cardinal Sean Brady should be "considering his position" after the revelation of his failures to report the notorious paedophile Fr Brendan Smyth to the police. I wrote in this column at the time that was a remarkable thing for McGuinness to say, given what was known then by the public about the dysfunctional Adams family.
THREE years on and Adams is complaining about "the despicable manner in which this issue is being dealt with by the DUP and others, and by some cynical elements of the media". He said this has become trial by media and a witch-hunt. A sense of proportion is something that Adams himself is missing.
"I know that I have committed no offence, and I know that I did what I considered to be the right thing, and that I co-operated fully with the PSNI, the Public Prosecution Service, with the court," he has said. But when and why? And why should we believe his version of events, when we know that Adams's history is to say almost anything that is convenient to his political needs of the day? His loyal supporters in Sinn Féin, who treat him as an iconic figure and who believe he can do no wrong, are facing a test of their intelligence. Can they forgive him anything? Do they always believe, as Adams seems to, that he is a victim of some devious, perfidious plot to destroy him, when this wound clearly is self-inflicted?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/matt-cooper/its-a-bit-late-in-the-day-for-adams-to-whinge-about-media-treatment-246650.html
Gerry Adams never led secret inquiry into Sinn Féin/IRA sexual abuse – SF
Gerry Adams said an article which says he led the covert internal inquiry was "scurrilous".
SINN FÉIN HAS denied allegations that party leader Gerry Adams led a covert republican investigation into claims of sexual abuse by more than 100 members of Sinn Fein and the IRA.
In a brief statement this afternoon, a spokesperson said the party "absolutely and without equivocation" rejected the claims about a secret inquiry made in the Sunday Independent.
In a tweet sent in the early hours of this morning, Adams described the article as "scurrilous".
The article by Suzanne Breen cites republican sources and says that the internal investigation was set up in the mid-2000s after a "deluge" of allegations of rape and sexual assault against members of Sinn Féin and the IRA. It says that Gerry Adams was one of four senior party figures who headed the year-long investigation.
The inquiry is alleged to have worked under the auspices of an internal Sinn Féin committee known as the 'Cosite Seasta'. The piece also says that there is substantial documentation proving the existence of the inquiry.
Adams is currently in the spotlight over criticism of how he dealt with his brother's conviction for rape and and child abuse.
"Sinn Féin absolutely and without equivocation rejects claims made in the story in today's Sunday Independent," the Sinn Féin spokesperson said.
Firstly, Gerry Adams did not lead any internal inquiry into claims of sexual abuse against republicans.
Secondly, there was no internal inquiry into claims of sexual abuse carried out under the auspices of Sinn Féin's Coiste Seasta in 2005.
Adams has criticised what he has described as a 'witch-hunt' against him by the media following his brother Liam's conviction.
http://www.thejournal.ie/gerry-adams-inquiry-sexual-abuse-1138378-Oct2013/?utm_source=twitter_self
Is it just me or is SF's response a bit too specific? Why not say there was never any internal inquiry by SF (not limited to "2005" and the "under the auspices of Sinn Féin's Coiste Seasta")? Reads like a very qualified dismissal of the claims.
I thought it was liam adams who was on trial? but I've been in the Gerry moving aside camp for quite some time, not for family reasons but simply because he's now one of the obstacles to sinn fein taking the next step toward becoming the big power in irish politics. he simply not up for the cut and thrust of the filth of the dail. sorry ger you did your best
Quote from: lawnseed on October 20, 2013, 05:42:24 PM
I thought it was liam adams who was on trial? but I've been in the Gerry moving aside camp for quite some time, not for family reasons but simply because he's now one of the obstacles to sinn fein taking the next step toward becoming the big power in irish politics. he simply not up for the cut and thrust of the filth of the dail. sorry ger you did your best
Liam
was on trial. Do keep up.
Quote from: lawnseed on October 20, 2013, 05:42:24 PM
I thought it was liam adams who was on trial? but I've been in the Gerry moving aside camp for quite some time, not for family reasons but simply because he's now one of the obstacles to sinn fein taking the next step toward becoming the big power in irish politics. he simply not up for the cut and thrust of the filth of the dail. sorry ger you did your best
"Roll on the dung out" as you have it... indeed.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 20, 2013, 05:46:27 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 20, 2013, 05:42:24 PM
I thought it was liam adams who was on trial? but I've been in the Gerry moving aside camp for quite some time, not for family reasons but simply because he's now one of the obstacles to sinn fein taking the next step toward becoming the big power in irish politics. he simply not up for the cut and thrust of the filth of the dail. sorry ger you did your best
Liam was on trial. Do keep up.
'you' seem to have ger on trial
hows your mate conal getting on..? whos the new 'leader in waiting'
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2013, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 20, 2013, 05:46:27 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 20, 2013, 05:42:24 PM
I thought it was liam adams who was on trial? but I've been in the Gerry moving aside camp for quite some time, not for family reasons but simply because he's now one of the obstacles to sinn fein taking the next step toward becoming the big power in irish politics. he simply not up for the cut and thrust of the filth of the dail. sorry ger you did your best
Liam was on trial. Do keep up.
'you' seem to have ger on trial
As Matt Cooper wrote in the article above,
"His loyal supporters in Sinn Féin, who treat him as an iconic figure and who believe he can do no wrong, are facing a test of their intelligence."Do you reckon you've passed the test?
firstly paper never refused ink. Matt cooper is the two ends of a bollix! secondly my support of sinn fein is from a republican, socialist and humanist point of view. I believe in a united Ireland when the conditions are right IE when the Irish electorate south of the border finally elect someone who isn't blatantly a self serving crook or a puppet of big business and who doesn't bend over for religious institutions. when it comes to personalities whether it be Gerry of martin or Angus or whomever (as I've already posted) the party and its objectives must come first. Adams isn't cutting it in the dail plain and simple. His family problems are private no concern of mine I hope his niece gets justice and tries to move on.
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2013, 11:53:17 PM
firstly paper never refused ink. Matt cooper is the two ends of a bollix!
You played the man and missed the ball. That would be a test fail.
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2013, 11:53:17 PM
His family problems are private no concern of mine I hope his niece gets justice and tries to move on.
Head in the sand. I'm sure you considered Sean Brady's problems to be no concern of you.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 23, 2013, 07:41:11 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2013, 11:53:17 PM
firstly paper never refused ink. Matt cooper is the two ends of a bollix!
You played the man and missed the ball. That would be a test fail.
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2013, 11:53:17 PM
His family problems are private no concern of mine I hope his niece gets justice and tries to move on.
Head in the sand. I'm sure you considered Sean Brady's problems to be no concern of you.
SF called Sean Brady out on his inactions, the silence is deafening on Adams. He is now a liability and as the Southern Election nears his actions or inactions will be rehearsed in a media which is anti SF. The perserverance with Adams is in stark contrast to the removal from the assembly of Connor Murphy and Michelle Gildernew around the NI water appointments furore.
Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....
Guest writer Gerard Hodgins with a piece asking questions of Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams in relation to allegations of covering up rape. Mr Hodgins is a forner blanket man who took part in the 1981 Long Kesh hunger strike.
Gerry Adams is man very much in the public eye; he leads a political party in Ireland and was once the leader of The Republican Movement. He is a consummate politician who can play the media to his tune while evading and reinventing events to his interpretation. And when the media scrutiny gets too close to the bone he invokes the prerogatives of "private family affair" and "disgruntled opponents of the peace process".
A private family affair is just that and none should ever intrude publically into a private family affair, leaving it to the family to sort. When a cynical manipulator of the media chooses to milk a private family tragedy for a political end then that act is deserving of comment and questions.
In the first instance it has to be noted that when a report of child abuse was made to the RUC in 1987 the abuse allegation was overlooked for a leverage opening on the then leader of the republican movement. The child was abandoned by the very institutions of the state set up to safeguard and protect vulnerable children. That abandonment and indifference towards the plight of the child was compounded by its abandonment by the one uncle who could have made a difference.
In the aftermath of the Liam Adams trial and with the availability of documents and court records to give a deeper understanding of what precisely happened we are undoubtedly grateful that we live in the internet age when information is accessible pretty quickly before somebody dresses it up and presents it to us as something more akin to propaganda than fact.
The raw fact that Gerry contacted the Social Services the day after confronting Liam in Buncrana to complain that Aine was living in a dirty house and had nits rather than reporting her vulnerability to an abusive parent speaks volumes for the concern Gerry the man had towards Aine the child.
Further he only broke for cover when he discovered that Chris Moore was doing a documentary for UTV which would raise disturbing questions about his role in the saga. Having assessed the immediate impact of that documentary to be inimical to Big Gerry, he and his advisors called in Tommie Gorman from RTE a couple of days later when Gerry hung his own father out to hang in that infamous interview – which was designed to further cloudy the waters, engender sympathy for poor oul Gerry and stop people asking awkward questions.
The questions didn't stop though and when Suzanne Breen forensically dissected Gerry's whole account for The Sunday Tribune she exposed lie upon lie, deceit upon deceit in Gerry's accounts.
Not that many took notice, why let little things like facts get in the way of a good counter-revolution with electoral and financial gains still to be made -- such facts can be dismissed as the moaning of disgruntled opponents of the peace process.
But they came back again in crystallised form when a jury in Belfast found Liam Adams guilty of his crimes. And the reaction again from the Sinn Fein spin machine was to shoot the messengers. Journalists who covered the story are denigrated as lacking credibility and bona fides: it's all a personal witch-hunt against Big Gerry; it's the Brits; it's the securocrats.
But the most deafening silence has been the silence of absolutely nobody from within Sinn Fein asking a question. When the Catholic Church was being excoriated (and rightly so) for their proven institutional failures in relation to child protection and cover-ups of paedophile priests, Sinn Fein were out in front of the political posse biting at the heels of Cardinal Brady and his Bishops calling for resignations and no hiding place for people who turn their backs on children in such conditions.
I don't believe Sinn Fein internally though is such a united front around the Dear Leader who everybody loves and reveres; party strategists have to be considering the negative dynamics of going into elections with the stench of sexual abuse hanging over the party. Adams is clearly no longer the magical negotiator who could sell pork to the Arabs never mind sand, his cross examination exposed him as a faltering and unconvincing witness, more a liability than an asset hence his non-recall at the second trial.
Dismissing criticism of Gerry Adams as the outworking of opponents of the peace process is a cynical manipulation of the discursive format, It is not anti-peace to question the motivations and wisdom of a leader, it is not anti-peace to call out a snake oil-salesman on his inconsistencies and evasions. As republicans committed to a republic which cherishes all of the children equally we are obligated to raise voices of concern over the abandonment of a child and the subsequent media pantomime to present the unsavoury details in a manner favourable to Big Gerry the victim .....
Gerry lives in two worlds, he has told us so in his book "A Farther Shore", there is the fictional happy ending world where we swallow his version of history/events and then there is the other world, the world of truth and reality which we are not yet mature enough to handle. Referring to the hunger strike Adams comments:
"A happy ending, finally, eventually, it seems to me is more important than a tell-all story now."
Like the hunger strike, his handling of sexual abuse allegations against a child leaves a lot more questions to be answered than clarity. There are no happy endings though: six men died unnecessarily in 1981 to get Adams into a lucrative lifestyle which has seen the poor boy from Ballymurphy move up the social ladder; abandoned child victims don't have happy endings, the memories never leave them. Then there is the matter of our patriot dead who died believing we were in this for the long haul while Gerry was secretly negotiating behind our backs to bring the war to a close. No happy endings......
We must continue to question though, to be silent is to be acquiescent. As republicans who once believed in and followed Gerry Adams we have every right to ask questions and demand full disclosure of all the secret dealings of the leadership of the Provisional high command. We deserve this and we earned the right to demand it when we stood against the British and endured all that they threw at us. It is time for the tell-all story now.
http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html
Says it all really
According to McGuinness, there's no comparison between Cardinal Brady's "sit-yee-aaa-shun" (is there any story he can't use that word in?) and Gerry Adams'. Oh, any Gerry is a victim.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24807057
Meanwhile, the bad news stories just won't go away...
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-pressed-in-disappeared-documentary-over-alleged-role-in-jean-mcconville-death-29724083.html
The Disappeared', a co-production between RTE and the BBC, will be broadcast on RTE1 tonight at 9:35pm and at 10.35pm on BBC1 Northern Ireland.
Quote from: give her dixie on October 25, 2013, 12:27:40 AM
Our revenge will be the laughter of our children....
Guest writer Gerard Hodgins with a piece asking questions of Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams in relation to allegations of covering up rape. Mr Hodgins is a forner blanket man who took part in the 1981 Long Kesh hunger strike.
Gerry Adams is man very much in the public eye; he leads a political party in Ireland and was once the leader of The Republican Movement. He is a consummate politician who can play the media to his tune while evading and reinventing events to his interpretation. And when the media scrutiny gets too close to the bone he invokes the prerogatives of "private family affair" and "disgruntled opponents of the peace process".
A private family affair is just that and none should ever intrude publically into a private family affair, leaving it to the family to sort. When a cynical manipulator of the media chooses to milk a private family tragedy for a political end then that act is deserving of comment and questions.
In the first instance it has to be noted that when a report of child abuse was made to the RUC in 1987 the abuse allegation was overlooked for a leverage opening on the then leader of the republican movement. The child was abandoned by the very institutions of the state set up to safeguard and protect vulnerable children. That abandonment and indifference towards the plight of the child was compounded by its abandonment by the one uncle who could have made a difference.
In the aftermath of the Liam Adams trial and with the availability of documents and court records to give a deeper understanding of what precisely happened we are undoubtedly grateful that we live in the internet age when information is accessible pretty quickly before somebody dresses it up and presents it to us as something more akin to propaganda than fact.
The raw fact that Gerry contacted the Social Services the day after confronting Liam in Buncrana to complain that Aine was living in a dirty house and had nits rather than reporting her vulnerability to an abusive parent speaks volumes for the concern Gerry the man had towards Aine the child.
Further he only broke for cover when he discovered that Chris Moore was doing a documentary for UTV which would raise disturbing questions about his role in the saga. Having assessed the immediate impact of that documentary to be inimical to Big Gerry, he and his advisors called in Tommie Gorman from RTE a couple of days later when Gerry hung his own father out to hang in that infamous interview – which was designed to further cloudy the waters, engender sympathy for poor oul Gerry and stop people asking awkward questions.
The questions didn't stop though and when Suzanne Breen forensically dissected Gerry's whole account for The Sunday Tribune she exposed lie upon lie, deceit upon deceit in Gerry's accounts.
Not that many took notice, why let little things like facts get in the way of a good counter-revolution with electoral and financial gains still to be made -- such facts can be dismissed as the moaning of disgruntled opponents of the peace process.
But they came back again in crystallised form when a jury in Belfast found Liam Adams guilty of his crimes. And the reaction again from the Sinn Fein spin machine was to shoot the messengers. Journalists who covered the story are denigrated as lacking credibility and bona fides: it's all a personal witch-hunt against Big Gerry; it's the Brits; it's the securocrats.
But the most deafening silence has been the silence of absolutely nobody from within Sinn Fein asking a question. When the Catholic Church was being excoriated (and rightly so) for their proven institutional failures in relation to child protection and cover-ups of paedophile priests, Sinn Fein were out in front of the political posse biting at the heels of Cardinal Brady and his Bishops calling for resignations and no hiding place for people who turn their backs on children in such conditions.
I don't believe Sinn Fein internally though is such a united front around the Dear Leader who everybody loves and reveres; party strategists have to be considering the negative dynamics of going into elections with the stench of sexual abuse hanging over the party. Adams is clearly no longer the magical negotiator who could sell pork to the Arabs never mind sand, his cross examination exposed him as a faltering and unconvincing witness, more a liability than an asset hence his non-recall at the second trial.
Dismissing criticism of Gerry Adams as the outworking of opponents of the peace process is a cynical manipulation of the discursive format, It is not anti-peace to question the motivations and wisdom of a leader, it is not anti-peace to call out a snake oil-salesman on his inconsistencies and evasions. As republicans committed to a republic which cherishes all of the children equally we are obligated to raise voices of concern over the abandonment of a child and the subsequent media pantomime to present the unsavoury details in a manner favourable to Big Gerry the victim .....
Gerry lives in two worlds, he has told us so in his book "A Farther Shore", there is the fictional happy ending world where we swallow his version of history/events and then there is the other world, the world of truth and reality which we are not yet mature enough to handle. Referring to the hunger strike Adams comments:
"A happy ending, finally, eventually, it seems to me is more important than a tell-all story now."
Like the hunger strike, his handling of sexual abuse allegations against a child leaves a lot more questions to be answered than clarity. There are no happy endings though: six men died unnecessarily in 1981 to get Adams into a lucrative lifestyle which has seen the poor boy from Ballymurphy move up the social ladder; abandoned child victims don't have happy endings, the memories never leave them. Then there is the matter of our patriot dead who died believing we were in this for the long haul while Gerry was secretly negotiating behind our backs to bring the war to a close. No happy endings......
We must continue to question though, to be silent is to be acquiescent. As republicans who once believed in and followed Gerry Adams we have every right to ask questions and demand full disclosure of all the secret dealings of the leadership of the Provisional high command. We deserve this and we earned the right to demand it when we stood against the British and endured all that they threw at us. It is time for the tell-all story now.
http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/our-revenge-will-be-laughter-of-our.html
Well well Dixie the Pensivequill or Tony's weekly liar.Published by a "Republican" who got vulnerable people to tout on their former comrades,a "Socialist" who conspired with others to build Priory Hall and distroy working peoples lives[maybe even used catapiller while building them].Really stooping low now Dixie so remember the old
saying if you lie with dogs you will get up with fleas.
Alistair McDonnell in yesterday's Irish News called on Adams to be held to account, a call repeated in todays paper by Alex Attwood. McDonald and Attwood's interventions are primaryily self serving and political point scoring at its worst with no regard for the victim. But that does not hide the fact that Martin McGuinness is wrong, Gerry Adams does need to answer questions not only about this but also about his IRA past. Not withstanding that he has endeavoured to help in the finding of the bodies of the disappeared there is still a whiff about him. His denials, evasion and deliberate fudging of events and dates has robbed him of any credability he had. He is the albatross around SF's neck that will lose them votes on both sides of the border. The only saving grace in the North is that he is no longer a key player and McDonnell and the SDLP have even less credability...if that's possible. Meanwhile the Unionists are running rings around both Nationalist parties finding even more ways to say no and retreating to the politics of the 1920's.
Prison officers saved the life of paedophile Liam Adams after he had a heart attack in Maghaberry, it can be revealed.
The brother of Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams "died" in his cell, according to sources – but was revived by quick-thinking staff who resuscitated him.
Adams is serving a 16-year sentence for raping his daughter Aine when she was a child.
Sources told the Belfast Telegraph that another prisoner raised the alarm last Tuesday when Adams suddenly "hit the deck".
One source added: "He was proper dead." Officers administered chest compressions until an ambulance arrived and nurses took over.
He was rushed to hospital, where he remained in recovery until being discharged on Friday. Adams has been held in Martin House in maximum-security Maghaberry HMP since his sentencing by Judge Corinne Philpott QC at Belfast Crown Court last year.
The unit houses prisoners under protection from other inmates, and he is understood to have been threatened by fellow prisoners a number of times.
Others held at Martin House include notorious killers Robert Black, Barry McCarney and Trevor Hamilton.
Adams, from Bernagh Drive in west Belfast, is expected to serve half his sentence in prison.
A jury found him guilty of a string of sexual assaults against his daughter Aine Dahlstrom (nee Adams), who waived her right to anonymity. The abuse took place over five years between 1977 and 1981 when Mrs Dahlstrom (40) was aged between four and nine.
During the two-week trial in October, he denied the charges, but was found guilty on all 10 counts – three charges of rape, four counts of indecent assault and three counts of gross indecency. In January, the Court Service confirmed he had lodged appeal papers against both conviction and sentence.
That month it also emerged he was refusing to eat food in a protest against new visiting arrangements at Maghaberry.
Both the Prison Service and Gerry Adams' spokesman declined to comment on the heart attack.
BACKGROUND
Sex abuse allegations against Liam Adams were made public when his daughter Aine Dahlstrom took part in a 2009 TV documentary. Within days, her father fled to the Republic amid claims he would not receive a fair trial in Northern Ireland.
He was handed over to the PSNI at the border in November 2011 after he lost a lengthy and expensive extradition battle. The first trial opened in April last year but collapsed due to legal reasons. During this trial, Mrs Dahlstrom's uncle, Gerry Adams, was called as a prosecution witness. Liam Adams was convicted after a second trial last October.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/paedophile-liam-adams-died-in-his-cell-after-heart-attack-but-was-saved-by-prison-officers-30225819.html
Great timing there.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on May 02, 2014, 11:32:33 AM
"hit the deck".
One source added: "He was proper dead."
I see the prison service is attracting highly educated personnel.
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 12:46:14 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on May 02, 2014, 11:32:33 AM
"hit the deck".
One source added: "He was proper dead."
I see the prison service is attracting highly educated personnel.
Might have been one of the inamtes ?.
Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 02, 2014, 12:46:14 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on May 02, 2014, 11:32:33 AM
"hit the deck".
One source added: "He was proper dead."
I see the prison service is attracting highly educated personnel.
Might have been one of the inamtes ?.
They let the inmates talk to the press??
Sorry, probably was. You'd think a journalist would coax a more coherent statement from them though instead of "He woz proper dead, like".