TG4 - Club Championships Coverage

[yellowcard]

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

Agreed. You could guarantee if the shoe was on the other foot Kilcoo would have made the foul.

The shoe actually was on the other foot a minute later. Kilmacud won the kick out and the Kilcoo sub and another basically wrapped the Kilmacud man up in a tackle. Then when Brannigan won the ball that came in and got it out to the sub,  23 I think, the sub ran with the ball, checked where the Crokes man was, ran across him on the solo and got his heel clipped. Free kick, time wasted, game over. Game intelligence, awareness and winning mentality. A microcosm of the difference between winning an losing.

Yes, it is a win at all costs attitude that Kilcoo have not just picked up overnight, it is a learned practice over years. I think they may have actually been a lot worse for it before Mickey Moran came in. Another example of that 'cuteness' was the free which Laverty bought when they were 5 or 6 points down when he grabbed the Kilmacud man by the arm and pulled himself down. Anybody that has watched Laverty over the years would have seen that coming but it still worked for him on the biggest day in the club calendar and they got a score from it. Its difficult to be puritanical about it when it's your own team involved but it's not what you want to see as a neutral.

I remember the Dubs systematically grabbing the Mayo players to the ground to win an AI title a few years back when they were a point up with a minute to go. The winners write the script.   

[JoG2]

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

I think they would have if they could have, but For me that's what distinguishes Kilcoo and won them the All-ireland - high level of skill , pace , evasion , they've been avoiding tackles all year. That coupled with several kilmacud players cramping because they couldn't live with kilcoo's relentless intensity to the end. A fresher , faster, more skilful Johnston , did the damage when it counted most. People talk about Kilcoo's never say die attitude on the day, and that's important , but equally their decades long  commitment to developing top quality skills and athleticism , means that not only have they the attitude, they've the tools to do the business when it counts. A bit like Ballygunner earlier in the day, blood and thunder only gets you so far, you've got to have the tools to finish the job. What a brilliant day's sport .

And yet, without the fluke goal / Mannion..... Kilmacud's pace, skill etc was the deciding factor. Ulster winners at club intermediate, senior, County minor and senior. Some going!

[Hoof Hearted]

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

I think they would have if they could have, but For me that's what distinguishes Kilcoo and won them the All-ireland - high level of skill , pace , evasion , they've been avoiding tackles all year. That coupled with several kilmacud players cramping because they couldn't live with kilcoo's relentless intensity to the end. A fresher , faster, more skilful Johnston , did the damage when it counted most. People talk about Kilcoo's never say die attitude on the day, and that's important , but equally their decades long  commitment to developing top quality skills and athleticism , means that not only have they the attitude, they've the tools to do the business when it counts. A bit like Ballygunner earlier in the day, blood and thunder only gets you so far, you've got to have the tools to finish the job. What a brilliant day's sport .

And yet, without the fluke goal / Mannion..... Kilmacud's pace, skill etc was the deciding factor. Ulster winners at club intermediate, senior, County minor and senior. Some going!

Not county minor

[JoG2]

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

I think they would have if they could have, but For me that's what distinguishes Kilcoo and won them the All-ireland - high level of skill , pace , evasion , they've been avoiding tackles all year. That coupled with several kilmacud players cramping because they couldn't live with kilcoo's relentless intensity to the end. A fresher , faster, more skilful Johnston , did the damage when it counted most. People talk about Kilcoo's never say die attitude on the day, and that's important , but equally their decades long  commitment to developing top quality skills and athleticism , means that not only have they the attitude, they've the tools to do the business when it counts. A bit like Ballygunner earlier in the day, blood and thunder only gets you so far, you've got to have the tools to finish the job. What a brilliant day's sport .

And yet, without the fluke goal / Mannion..... Kilmacud's pace, skill etc was the deciding factor. Ulster winners at club intermediate, senior, County minor and senior. Some going!

Not county minor

D'oh! Quick turnaround on the minor title!

[toby47]

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

I think they would have if they could have, but For me that's what distinguishes Kilcoo and won them the All-ireland - high level of skill , pace , evasion , they've been avoiding tackles all year. That coupled with several kilmacud players cramping because they couldn't live with kilcoo's relentless intensity to the end. A fresher , faster, more skilful Johnston , did the damage when it counted most. People talk about Kilcoo's never say die attitude on the day, and that's important , but equally their decades' long  commitment to developing top quality skills and athleticism , means that not only have they the attitude, they've the tools to do the business when it counts. A bit like Ballygunner earlier in the day, blood and thunder only gets you so far, you've got to have the tools to finish the job. What a brilliant day's sport .

Watch the video back - of course he could have been fouled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zArsZjJGkOc

Go to 1min 45secs of that video and tell me if the roles were reversed would a Crokes player have got through Kilcoo like that on the last attack? Would Philly McMahon/Cooper/John Small let a man through like that, would Tyrone last year have conceded that goal? Not a mission - winners exhaust all avenues to find a way.

[Hound]

I remember the Dubs systematically grabbing the Mayo players to the ground to win an AI title a few years back when they were a point up with a minute to go. The winners write the script.

You might remember hearing that YC, and is repeated often by different analysts in the media, but it didn't happen!
There was a free for Dublin, and every Dublin player knew who they were to pick up for the ensuing kickout and that they had to be touch tight.
Kilkenny was the only man who dragged a man to the ground, because he'd been looking at Keegan and saw him throw the GPS.
Kilkenny was rightly black-carded an the ref added on more time than was wasted.
So the myth that Dublin won because they systematically brought Mayo players to the ground is just that, a myth. The Kilkenny black card made it easier for Mayo to get the equaliser, not harder. They got an extra man out of it and were going to be given enough time to get up the field. Yet this basic analysis is washed over all the time.
David Clarke blasting the goal kick over the sideline was the final decisive moment, not the touch tight Dublin forwards!

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

I think they would have if they could have, but For me that's what distinguishes Kilcoo and won them the All-ireland - high level of skill , pace , evasion , they've been avoiding tackles all year. That coupled with several kilmacud players cramping because they couldn't live with kilcoo's relentless intensity to the end. A fresher , faster, more skilful Johnston , did the damage when it counted most. People talk about Kilcoo's never say die attitude on the day, and that's important , but equally their decades' long  commitment to developing top quality skills and athleticism , means that not only have they the attitude, they've the tools to do the business when it counts. A bit like Ballygunner earlier in the day, blood and thunder only gets you so far, you've got to have the tools to finish the job. What a brilliant day's sport .

Watch the video back - of course he could have been fouled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zArsZjJGkOc

Go to 1min 45secs of that video and tell me if the roles were reversed would a Crokes player have got through Kilcoo like that on the last attack? Would Philly McMahon/Cooper/John Small let a man through like that, would Tyrone last year have conceded that goal? Not a mission - winners exhaust all avenues to find a way.

Yep the no.5 attempts to win the ball fairly. Then when he realises he's not going to do it and is risking a foul he actually holds back and puts his arms in the air to ensure the ref knows he's not fouling.

Of course, the other key factor in the goal was the two Kilcoo men completely free in the box!

The previous passage of play also showed how hard it is to play keep-ball if the opposition don't want you to keep the ball. Kilmacud always had a free man, but usually just one and a Kilcoo man was never far away, and the passer was coming under some pressure each time, so I thought a mistake was inevitable.

[yellowcard]

I remember the Dubs systematically grabbing the Mayo players to the ground to win an AI title a few years back when they were a point up with a minute to go. The winners write the script.

You might remember hearing that YC, and is repeated often by different analysts in the media, but it didn't happen!
There was a free for Dublin, and every Dublin player knew who they were to pick up for the ensuing kickout and that they had to be touch tight.
Kilkenny was the only man who dragged a man to the ground, because he'd been looking at Keegan and saw him throw the GPS.
Kilkenny was rightly black-carded an the ref added on more time than was wasted.
So the myth that Dublin won because they systematically brought Mayo players to the ground is just that, a myth. The Kilkenny black card made it easier for Mayo to get the equaliser, not harder. They got an extra man out of it and were going to be given enough time to get up the field. Yet this basic analysis is washed over all the time.
David Clarke blasting the goal kick over the sideline was the final decisive moment, not the touch tight Dublin forwards!

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

I think they would have if they could have, but For me that's what distinguishes Kilcoo and won them the All-ireland - high level of skill , pace , evasion , they've been avoiding tackles all year. That coupled with several kilmacud players cramping because they couldn't live with kilcoo's relentless intensity to the end. A fresher , faster, more skilful Johnston , did the damage when it counted most. People talk about Kilcoo's never say die attitude on the day, and that's important , but equally their decades' long  commitment to developing top quality skills and athleticism , means that not only have they the attitude, they've the tools to do the business when it counts. A bit like Ballygunner earlier in the day, blood and thunder only gets you so far, you've got to have the tools to finish the job. What a brilliant day's sport .

Watch the video back - of course he could have been fouled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zArsZjJGkOc

Go to 1min 45secs of that video and tell me if the roles were reversed would a Crokes player have got through Kilcoo like that on the last attack? Would Philly McMahon/Cooper/John Small let a man through like that, would Tyrone last year have conceded that goal? Not a mission - winners exhaust all avenues to find a way.

Yep the no.5 attempts to win the ball fairly. Then when he realises he's not going to do it and is risking a foul he actually holds back and puts his arms in the air to ensure the ref knows he's not fouling.

Of course, the other key factor in the goal was the two Kilcoo men completely free in the box!

The previous passage of play also showed how hard it is to play keep-ball if the opposition don't want you to keep the ball. Kilmacud always had a free man, but usually just one and a Kilcoo man was never far away, and the passer was coming under some pressure each time, so I thought a mistake was inevitable.

On the Dublin systematic fouling (or lack of), I will take your word for it. I do, however, remember a general uproar in the media after the match and Paul Kimmage (not a renowned GAA journalist) even wrote an article lambasting Dublin's 'cheating'. But if you say that it was just Kilkenny then I stand corrected.

I agree on the naivety of the Kilmacud defending. The number five could quite easily have fouled the Kilcoo number twelve 25 metres from goal which would have let them get organised and made it almost impossible for Kilcoo to breach their goal. Leaving 2 free men in loads of space just outside the small square at that stage of the game was terrible defending not to mention game management. Kilmacud will have nightmares about that for years to come but in fairness to Kilcoo they pushed right up on their opponents at that stage of the game and forced the initial mistake from the goalkeeper which ultimately led to that winning goal.   

[Gael85]

I remember the Dubs systematically grabbing the Mayo players to the ground to win an AI title a few years back when they were a point up with a minute to go. The winners write the script.

You might remember hearing that YC, and is repeated often by different analysts in the media, but it didn't happen!
There was a free for Dublin, and every Dublin player knew who they were to pick up for the ensuing kickout and that they had to be touch tight.
Kilkenny was the only man who dragged a man to the ground, because he'd been looking at Keegan and saw him throw the GPS.
Kilkenny was rightly black-carded an the ref added on more time than was wasted.
So the myth that Dublin won because they systematically brought Mayo players to the ground is just that, a myth. The Kilkenny black card made it easier for Mayo to get the equaliser, not harder. They got an extra man out of it and were going to be given enough time to get up the field. Yet this basic analysis is washed over all the time.
David Clarke blasting the goal kick over the sideline was the final decisive moment, not the touch tight Dublin forwards!

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

I think they would have if they could have, but For me that's what distinguishes Kilcoo and won them the All-ireland - high level of skill , pace , evasion , they've been avoiding tackles all year. That coupled with several kilmacud players cramping because they couldn't live with kilcoo's relentless intensity to the end. A fresher , faster, more skilful Johnston , did the damage when it counted most. People talk about Kilcoo's never say die attitude on the day, and that's important , but equally their decades' long  commitment to developing top quality skills and athleticism , means that not only have they the attitude, they've the tools to do the business when it counts. A bit like Ballygunner earlier in the day, blood and thunder only gets you so far, you've got to have the tools to finish the job. What a brilliant day's sport .

Watch the video back - of course he could have been fouled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zArsZjJGkOc

Go to 1min 45secs of that video and tell me if the roles were reversed would a Crokes player have got through Kilcoo like that on the last attack? Would Philly McMahon/Cooper/John Small let a man through like that, would Tyrone last year have conceded that goal? Not a mission - winners exhaust all avenues to find a way.

Yep the no.5 attempts to win the ball fairly. Then when he realises he's not going to do it and is risking a foul he actually holds back and puts his arms in the air to ensure the ref knows he's not fouling.

Of course, the other key factor in the goal was the two Kilcoo men completely free in the box!

The previous passage of play also showed how hard it is to play keep-ball if the opposition don't want you to keep the ball. Kilmacud always had a free man, but usually just one and a Kilcoo man was never far away, and the passer was coming under some pressure each time, so I thought a mistake was inevitable.

Paul Kimmage invented this myth about every Mayo dragged down in 2017 final.

[Tubberman]

I remember the Dubs systematically grabbing the Mayo players to the ground to win an AI title a few years back when they were a point up with a minute to go. The winners write the script.

You might remember hearing that YC, and is repeated often by different analysts in the media, but it didn't happen!
There was a free for Dublin, and every Dublin player knew who they were to pick up for the ensuing kickout and that they had to be touch tight.
Kilkenny was the only man who dragged a man to the ground, because he'd been looking at Keegan and saw him throw the GPS.
Kilkenny was rightly black-carded an the ref added on more time than was wasted.
So the myth that Dublin won because they systematically brought Mayo players to the ground is just that, a myth. The Kilkenny black card made it easier for Mayo to get the equaliser, not harder. They got an extra man out of it and were going to be given enough time to get up the field. Yet this basic analysis is washed over all the time.
David Clarke blasting the goal kick over the sideline was the final decisive moment, not the touch tight Dublin forwards!

All the stick Cavanagh got a few years back for 'that' tackle on McManus, he ended up on the winning side that day because of it. I can't for the life of me understand why Shealin Johnstone wasn't fouled in that last play on Saturday. If ever there was a stage to 'win at all costs'

In saying that, the run and kick pass from Johnstone was brilliant to create the goal. Just can't believe he was allowed to.

I think they would have if they could have, but For me that's what distinguishes Kilcoo and won them the All-ireland - high level of skill , pace , evasion , they've been avoiding tackles all year. That coupled with several kilmacud players cramping because they couldn't live with kilcoo's relentless intensity to the end. A fresher , faster, more skilful Johnston , did the damage when it counted most. People talk about Kilcoo's never say die attitude on the day, and that's important , but equally their decades' long  commitment to developing top quality skills and athleticism , means that not only have they the attitude, they've the tools to do the business when it counts. A bit like Ballygunner earlier in the day, blood and thunder only gets you so far, you've got to have the tools to finish the job. What a brilliant day's sport .

Watch the video back - of course he could have been fouled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zArsZjJGkOc

Go to 1min 45secs of that video and tell me if the roles were reversed would a Crokes player have got through Kilcoo like that on the last attack? Would Philly McMahon/Cooper/John Small let a man through like that, would Tyrone last year have conceded that goal? Not a mission - winners exhaust all avenues to find a way.

Yep the no.5 attempts to win the ball fairly. Then when he realises he's not going to do it and is risking a foul he actually holds back and puts his arms in the air to ensure the ref knows he's not fouling.

Of course, the other key factor in the goal was the two Kilcoo men completely free in the box!

The previous passage of play also showed how hard it is to play keep-ball if the opposition don't want you to keep the ball. Kilmacud always had a free man, but usually just one and a Kilcoo man was never far away, and the passer was coming under some pressure each time, so I thought a mistake was inevitable.

Paul Kimmage invented this myth about every Mayo dragged down in 2017 final.

I have no time for Paul Kimmage and I have no idea what he wrote about the 2017 final, but that is no myth.
I saw it happening in front of me. The ball was kicked out and every Mayo man I could see anywhere between the two 45s was dragged to the ground.

[Hound]

I have no time for Paul Kimmage and I have no idea what he wrote about the 2017 final, but that is no myth.
I saw it happening in front of me. The ball was kicked out and every Mayo man I could see anywhere between the two 45s was dragged to the ground.

That's absolutely hilarious Tubberman. Despite being there and seeing it with your own eyes, the Mayo aftermath hype has convinced you a lie is the truth.

There were two men on the ground when the ref blew the whistle. Kilkenny and Keegan.

This position can be seen as absolute fact at 1.42.10 in the video linked below.  Clarke kicks the ball out, it's been contested in the middle of the field, ref blows the whistle. I make it 18 players are picked up in the picture. Only CK and LK on the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYBFoI-fznE

[Tyrdub]

This was bugging me so I watched it back. You are 100% right Hound, only Keegan and Kilkenny on the ground, every other Mayo man had a touch tight marker or being held, no issues with that. The kickout was the final nail

[HiMucker]

It really was an incredible bit of keep ball by Dublin at the end there. Serious pressure from Mayo, but they just couldnt force the turnover.

[Milltown Row2]

Watched the club final today, christ, that last goal was a real body blow at that stage, there's no coming back from that, was a thrilling match, not the most scoring of games but with so much at stake it really was a rollercoaster of a game.

That match saving block by the Kilcoo lad at the start of the second half was amazing, that was a cert goal and would have finished Kilcoo

The goal from the 45 was a series of mistakes, miss hit, not collected by a defender and keeper lost flight of the ball, still a lot to do for Kilcoo but they never gave up.

Kilcoo missed some scores and could not deal with the wind at Croke, whereas Crokes were able to adapt quicker to the elements and their scores came a lot easier

[seafoid]

Kilcoo have been coming for a while. They brought Corofin to a replay 2 years ago. You need a bit of luck to.win the all Ireland but you need to be good to get there 

[tiempo]

Is there anything to be said for giving both hurling and football finalists huge credit as gallant losers for not ripping men down in those dying seconds and cynically making sure they didn't concede a goal by any means? Its no conciliation to them but has it been overlooked?