Author Topic: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball  (Read 46671 times)

thewobbler

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #675 on: June 29, 2022, 09:06:21 PM »
Ditch the mark.
Trial 13 aside and leave it at that.

Take away a sub as well. More space, more running, and less fresh legs from the bench. Games could be absolutely manic in the last 10 /15 mins.
More space means more running and so it will benefit the athletes rather than the ballers.

Fitness will be a factor but no more than it is today.
More space will mean more likely to kick a ball in front of a forward and gives him a chance of winning it rather than it be swallowed up by 2-3 sweepers.
It gives the GK more options for kickouts.
It just generally makes it more difficult to play a blanket defence - which some think has ruined the game.
I don't necessarily agree with that opinion, but if you want faster games that are more high scoring, it's bound to help with that.

Its not the need for fitness Id be worried about so much as the need for raw speed. As someone slower than a cart horse the thought of 13 a side on a full size field brings out horrors.

onefineday

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #676 on: July 11, 2022, 09:11:49 AM »
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been resurrected. The big positive to me as I watched the Derry v Galway game, was this might just be the nadir, the point where the clamour for change can no longer be ignored. We've seen where the tactical evolution has gotten us, almost 70k in croker and the place like a library for most of the 1st half. Chances are we'll see more of the same in a fortnight, though it won't work to the same degree. Regardless of that, the real problem is that these big games are providing a window into what's happening up and down the country at club level. Managers see that it can bring results, players for the most part hate it, but if they don't co-operate, they won't be picked. The sport needs some simple, easily enforceable rules which can be applied to all games up and down the country.
To me, no passing back beyond half way is the most straightforward, probably needs at least 2 players from each side in each half at all times too though.

Estimator

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #677 on: July 11, 2022, 09:59:29 AM »
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been resurrected. The big positive to me as I watched the Derry v Galway game, was this might just be the nadir, the point where the clamour for change can no longer be ignored. We've seen where the tactical evolution has gotten us, almost 70k in croker and the place like a library for most of the 1st half. Chances are we'll see more of the same in a fortnight, though it won't work to the same degree. Regardless of that, the real problem is that these big games are providing a window into what's happening up and down the country at club level. Managers see that it can bring results, players for the most part hate it, but if they don't co-operate, they won't be picked. The sport needs some simple, easily enforceable rules which can be applied to all games up and down the country.
To me, no passing back beyond half way is the most straightforward, probably needs at least 2 players from each side in each half at all times too though.

I'm glad we didn't see any of that nonsense in the Dublin and Kerry game yesterday  ::)
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sligoman2

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #678 on: July 11, 2022, 02:38:08 PM »
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been resurrected. The big positive to me as I watched the Derry v Galway game, was this might just be the nadir, the point where the clamour for change can no longer be ignored. We've seen where the tactical evolution has gotten us, almost 70k in croker and the place like a library for most of the 1st half. Chances are we'll see more of the same in a fortnight, though it won't work to the same degree. Regardless of that, the real problem is that these big games are providing a window into what's happening up and down the country at club level. Managers see that it can bring results, players for the most part hate it, but if they don't co-operate, they won't be picked. The sport needs some simple, easily enforceable rules which can be applied to all games up and down the country.
To me, no passing back beyond half way is the most straightforward, probably needs at least 2 players from each side in each half at all times too though.

I'm glad we didn't see any of that nonsense in the Dublin and Kerry game yesterday  ::)

So am I but unfortunately that is the exception rather than the rule recently.  Derry Galway was a snoozer as was Derry v Donegal, as was Cork v Dublin.  It's sad to hear Croke Park so quiet during an All-Ireland semi final.  I've said before, the coaches won't change it so the governing body must before it's too late.  Start by eliminating back passes over the half way line and see how it works..
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

Mario

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #679 on: July 11, 2022, 02:47:59 PM »
Eliminating back passes in the own half won't do much. In the first half when derry were on top they had a 4 man full forward line and nearly everyone in Galways half, they didn't need to pass it back into their own half.

Gallagher gets stick for this style of play but Galway are the best at it from their games this year. I expect them to do the same in the final.

blanketattack

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #680 on: July 11, 2022, 11:55:21 PM »
A lot of similar possession based team sports have means of preventing stalling and passive play.
- Handball - ref can decide to penalise a team for passive play - where he sees a lack of attacking intent, penalty is loss of possession.
- Rugby League -you get 6 possessions in which to try to score. After the 6th possession gets ended with a tackle, the opposition gets possession. Also there's time limits for dropouts and forming scrums.
- American Football - 4 possessions to either score or move the ball forward 10 yards
- Basketball, 24 second shot clock
- Lacrosse, 80 second shot clock, 20 second time limit to get into opposition's half. Also a max of 6 players can be in attacking half and a max of 7 players (incl. Goalie) in defending half (Lacrosse is 10 a side).
- Australian rules - nothing to stop passive play. 30 second shot clock after a mark.
- Rugby union. Only restriction is 90 seconds to take a conversion.

So definitely something to learn from these sports.
I reckon 45 seconds shotclock for freekicks.
I like the idea of a maximum no. of defenders allowed in your own half but might be hard to keep track of.
To prevent stalling could choose either no. of possessions e.g. 12 or a shot-clock.
I like the idea of 12 possessions as it might encourage early kicks into the forwards and then have 8 or 9 possessions left to manufacture a score, but shot-clock of 80 seconds might be the easiest to track, by an independent timekeeper.

onefineday

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #681 on: July 12, 2022, 01:24:07 AM »
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been resurrected. The big positive to me as I watched the Derry v Galway game, was this might just be the nadir, the point where the clamour for change can no longer be ignored. We've seen where the tactical evolution has gotten us, almost 70k in croker and the place like a library for most of the 1st half. Chances are we'll see more of the same in a fortnight, though it won't work to the same degree. Regardless of that, the real problem is that these big games are providing a window into what's happening up and down the country at club level. Managers see that it can bring results, players for the most part hate it, but if they don't co-operate, they won't be picked. The sport needs some simple, easily enforceable rules which can be applied to all games up and down the country.
To me, no passing back beyond half way is the most straightforward, probably needs at least 2 players from each side in each half at all times too though.

I'm glad we didn't see any of that nonsense in the Dublin and Kerry game yesterday  ::)

So am I but unfortunately that is the exception rather than the rule recently.  Derry Galway was a snoozer as was Derry v Donegal, as was Cork v Dublin.  It's sad to hear Croke Park so quiet during an All-Ireland semi final.  I've said before, the coaches won't change it so the governing body must before it's too late.  Start by eliminating back passes over the half way line and see how it works..
I think that's irony sligoman, there was a fair few patches of it yesterday too, not to the same extent, but it was there.

onefineday

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #682 on: July 12, 2022, 01:28:47 AM »
Eliminating back passes in the own half won't do much. In the first half when derry were on top they had a 4 man full forward line and nearly everyone in Galways half, they didn't need to pass it back into their own half.

Gallagher gets stick for this style of play but Galway are the best at it from their games this year. I expect them to do the same in the final.
But if backpasses are removed as an option then the defending team can push up and attack the ball, safe in the knowledge that it won't end up as piggy in the middle. The attacking team might even be, heaven forbid, forced to take a potshot from an 80% probability position, at least the poor unfortunate who tried it could defend himself to his manager by saying it was his only option!

onefineday

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #683 on: July 12, 2022, 01:37:00 AM »
A lot of similar possession based team sports have means of preventing stalling and passive play.
- Handball - ref can decide to penalise a team for passive play - where he sees a lack of attacking intent, penalty is loss of possession.
- Rugby League -you get 6 possessions in which to try to score. After the 6th possession gets ended with a tackle, the opposition gets possession. Also there's time limits for dropouts and forming scrums.
- American Football - 4 possessions to either score or move the ball forward 10 yards
- Basketball, 24 second shot clock
- Lacrosse, 80 second shot clock, 20 second time limit to get into opposition's half. Also a max of 6 players can be in attacking half and a max of 7 players (incl. Goalie) in defending half (Lacrosse is 10 a side).
- Australian rules - nothing to stop passive play. 30 second shot clock after a mark.
- Rugby union. Only restriction is 90 seconds to take a conversion.

So definitely something to learn from these sports.
I reckon 45 seconds shotclock for freekicks.
I like the idea of a maximum no. of defenders allowed in your own half but might be hard to keep track of.
To prevent stalling could choose either no. of possessions e.g. 12 or a shot-clock.
I like the idea of 12 possessions as it might encourage early kicks into the forwards and then have 8 or 9 possessions left to manufacture a score, but shot-clock of 80 seconds might be the easiest to track, by an independent timekeeper.
Merit in a few of those, but needs to something easily policeable at all adult levels, that means shot clocks and number of possessions are out. The handball rule is pretty subjective and would result in a referee somewhere meeting a sorry end! Simplest seems to be banning going back into your own half - there was probably more of that in Kerry v Dublin than in the Derry v Galway game actually, given how deep Galway sat back. It probably needs a restriction on players too though.

mrdeeds

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #684 on: July 31, 2022, 06:38:33 PM »
Division 1 league final today in Cavan. 6 18 to 4 23 scoreline. Gearoid McKiernan scored 3 14 and still lost.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 06:46:18 PM by mrdeeds »