Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball

[J70]

Serious over reaction here. It's not as if what Dublin did happens all the time. I remember Meath doing it to Kerry in the 2001 AI semi (with 15 mins left) to shouts of "ole", then Galway returning the favour in that year's final. I remember Donegal doing it in the 2012 semi to Cork, although Cork managed to finally close down David Walsh, turn it over and score a goal. Kerry did it to us in the 2014 final. But it's not a common feature of intercounty football and definitely not something warranting knee jerk rule changes.

[longballin]

Serious over reaction here. It's not as if what Dublin did happens all the time. I remember Meath doing it to Kerry in the 2001 AI semi (with 15 mins left) to shouts of "ole", then Galway returning the favour in that year's final. I remember Donegal doing it in the 2012 semi to Cork, although Cork managed to finally close down David Walsh, turn it over and score a goal. Kerry did it to us in the 2014 final. But it's not a common feature of intercounty football and definitely not something warranting knee jerk rule changes.

Its been a mess long before that carryon at the weekend.

[Stall the Bailer]

How much of a problem is this at all levels?
I don't believe it to be a big issue, and don't like seeing new rules being suggested due to a few games at inter county level. This isn't epidemic at all levels.

It's borderline epidemic in Down division 1 club football, and sadly Dublin have just validated it as an approach.

How about the other divisions and other age levels? Is it always successful or do some teams mess it up? Personally I don't think it is a major problem that requires a rule change.

[Jinxy]

Serious over reaction here. It's not as if what Dublin did happens all the time. I remember Meath doing it to Kerry in the 2001 AI semi (with 15 mins left) to shouts of "ole", then Galway returning the favour in that year's final. I remember Donegal doing it in the 2012 semi to Cork, although Cork managed to finally close down David Walsh, turn it over and score a goal. Kerry did it to us in the 2014 final. But it's not a common feature of intercounty football and definitely not something warranting knee jerk rule changes.

Nope, that's not what happened.
In both cases, you had a team that was completely out of sight on the scoreboard and were so dominant that the other side couldn't get the ball back.
I'd wager if you looked at the number of scores in the last 10 minutes of either of those games, vs. the number of scores in the last 10 minutes of the game at the weekend, the difference would be clearly illustrated.

[joemamas]

Serious over reaction here. It's not as if what Dublin did happens all the time. I remember Meath doing it to Kerry in the 2001 AI semi (with 15 mins left) to shouts of "ole", then Galway returning the favour in that year's final. I remember Donegal doing it in the 2012 semi to Cork, although Cork managed to finally close down David Walsh, turn it over and score a goal. Kerry did it to us in the 2014 final. But it's not a common feature of intercounty football and definitely not something warranting knee jerk rule changes.

Nope, that's not what happened.
In both cases, you had a team that was completely out of sight on the scoreboard and were so dominant that the other side couldn't get the ball back.
I'd wager if you looked at the number of scores in the last 10 minutes of either of those games, vs. the number of scores in the last 10 minutes of the game at the weekend, the difference would be clearly illustrated.

This is absolutely not the first season that Dublin have played keep ball. Kilkenny (Favorite for footballer of the year  ) was at the same shite for the last two years from the Q/finals on, he appeared to be the designated "footballer" instructed to solo back to his own goals.

IMO, a fair bit of the criticism of Dublin inc. was probably justified, money , home games etc.
However, even as I Mayo man, I always said well at least they are trying to play Gaelic football and they kick the ball and are decent to watch, and for the most part I ignored the off field criticisms.

This crap that they feel necessary to do to close out a game, can be potentially so off putting to a regular Gaelic football supporter, that it has the potential to keep people away from going to games.

That is from somebody who back in the day (when the ball was kicked ) would get as much enjoyment from watching out of watching an u14 or u16 game across the street in the local football pitch.

Just depressing to watch that.

[trailer]

Yeah it's not great to watch. But this is about winning football matches. If the other team don't like it they should push up and try and win the ball back. Looking for a rule to stop it is professional whinging. Catch a grip ffs.

[6th sam]

But it's not just 5 keep-ball passes they'd be counting. It'd be 5 handpasses anywhere on the park, when his primary role should be identifying technical fouls, and those 5 passes would be intermingled with tackles and advantages.

Also do tell me what should happen if the fourth consecutive fist pass by Monaghan finds Conor McManus in the very top corner of a pitch. He obviously can't kick it forward at that point. Or are you going to complicate things by having different rules for different areas of the pitch?

I take your point , the  referees job is difficult . I think the advantage rule is an exsmple of a good rule which is unfortunately dependent on the capability of the referee , which has made it quite controversial.
Regarding Mcmanus in the corner, teams will learn to avoid such situations and avoidance of this becomes part of the decision making process on and off the ball.
The back pass is simple and I don't accept refs will have much difficulty with this. As happens in rugby at lower levels, it has to be a clear forward pass, borderline passes will not be penalised.
The 5 fist pass rule is also simple in that the referee has to warn the team before the last pass, giving the team a chance to play it. Ie "no more fist passes" this happens in rugby league with 4th tackle, ( though to be fair the tackles and restarts are much slower and easy to count) . These rule changes are experiments and must be tested in competitive games at club and county level before becoming law.
Perhaps the simplest rule change( and there is precedent with this in 7s football ) no back passes in your own half. This would have prevented a lot of the negative play yesterday and invites opposing teams to push up in the opponents half, as the team in possession has less options.

Referring rugby league isn't comparable. Kicking the ball a distance whereby the referee is out of earshot only happens every 6 plays, and even then it's eminently predictable that the receiver will go to ground within the new few seconds, allowing the ref to stay up with play.

I've already said is not directly comparable in rugby league because of the timing but we need to look at alternatives to stop these incessant 2 yard backward handpasses.. Perhaps keep it simple with the no back pass in own half rule.
13 a side would also be a positive simple development

[thewobbler]

Yeah it's not great to watch. But this is about winning football matches. If the other team don't like it they should push up and try and win the ball back. Looking for a rule to stop it is professional whinging. Catch a grip ffs.

I guess you think the removal of the backpass to the goalkeeper  in soccer was a terrible concept too?

Funny enough I've never heard anyone advocating for its return

[LooseCannon]

How much of a problem is this at all levels?
I don't believe it to be a big issue, and don't like seeing new rules being suggested due to a few games at inter county level. This isn't epidemic at all levels.

It's borderline epidemic in Down division 1 club football, and sadly Dublin have just validated it as an approach.

Thanks to Poacher?

[rosnarun]

my tuppence is there is a much easier solution to the 'Problem' without changing any rules .
allow players to tackle the man in possession its easy enough  to play DONKEY/keepball  in soccer but in Gaelic it requires no skill at all using your hand and getting get a free as soon as you are touched which wis usually followed by a troll along the grounds a visit from the medical team and up to m ins wasted.
I don't know any one who wants tackles reffere they way they are so how did it come to thisl

[thewobbler]

How much of a problem is this at all levels?
I don't believe it to be a big issue, and don't like seeing new rules being suggested due to a few games at inter county level. This isn't epidemic at all levels.

It's borderline epidemic in Down division 1 club football, and sadly Dublin have just validated it as an approach.

Thanks to Poacher?

If you want to believe that Ballyholland's coach has more influence on how teams approach the game than what they see working successfully at county level, go on ahead.

[dec]

Ban the handpass

[trailer]

Yeah it's not great to watch. But this is about winning football matches. If the other team don't like it they should push up and try and win the ball back. Looking for a rule to stop it is professional whinging. Catch a grip ffs.

I guess you think the removal of the backpass to the goalkeeper  in soccer was a terrible concept too?

Funny enough I've never heard anyone advocating for its return

That's a totally different game in which the keeper was the only player allowed to pick the ball up. Look at Barcelona then if you want to compare like with like. When they gave Utd the run around in 2009 & 2010 no one advocated for a rule change. Get better, push up, overcome it. Instead people want the rules changed cause the big boys won't give us the ball. It's the playground equivalent of going home and telling your Ma. Have some self respect for christ's sake.

[Maiden1]

Yeah it's not great to watch. But this is about winning football matches. If the other team don't like it they should push up and try and win the ball back. Looking for a rule to stop it is professional whinging. Catch a grip ffs.

I agree with that.  Like all sport some matches are good some are not so good.  The Sunday game and Spillane and Brolly in particular never have anything good to say about anything and it sort of becomes contagious to join in and agree with them.

All teams will try to run the clock down if they winning with 5 minutes to go, I've no doubt the magic sponge came out for a few Dublin players to take time off the clock when they beat Kerry in 1892 and a few Kerry players asked the ref to make sure he added time on for that.  Things like a wet ball changes a match a lot so had a big impact on the way the Kerry Galway game went.  Tyrone hammered Roscommon so people are giving out because it was too 1 sided, do they want to make it like the Indy 500 where they bring on a car to slow down the car in the lead to let the other cars catch up to make it more exciting?  If it had been 12-11 they would still be giving out.  If people want a really exciting game have Kilkenny footballers play a Sligo Rovers select team.  No one could defend properly, there would be no tactics, 15 vs 15, the keeper might not be able to kick the ball out properly, it could end up 4-22 to 3-27.  It could be great to watch.

[Rossfan]

I remember Ros doing a lorry load of handpassing in the closing minutes of the 1991 CF replay as we held onto a 1 point lead.
Mind you it was up around the half way line though.