Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball

[sligoman2]

Think about it lads, this is just another suggestion to try to beat Dublin without having to match them in terms of footballing quality. Awhile back the focus was on trying to concoct rules to disrupt Stephen Cluxton’s kick-outs. One of the changes brought in to try to stymie Cluxton was the introduction of the “mark” - we all saw how that worked last Saturday with Dublin winning most of the long kick-outs even those from the Donegal keeper.

There’s been much talk about the standard of football in the Dublin/Donegal game. Now I wonder if that is simply down to the fact that Dublin won again. If Donegal had won while holding on to the ball during the last few minutes of the game it would be talked about now as the game of the decade.

You are way off the mark there.  Nothing to do with Dublin bashing, this is mostly neutral supporters expressing how poor the fare that was on offer this weekend.  One good game won’t change that, the game is losing its entertainment value which will lead to neutrals like myself deciding not to watch games or go to games.  I assume the gaa know we have a major problem when the entertainment is removed from something that is supposed to entertain..

[6th sam]

1. We’ve heard it all before several times. Does anyone else feel that there is always excessive negativity around the quality of Gaelic  football. There are always bad games in any sport, but the media, backed up by every disgruntled losing supporter gets the boot into Gaelic football every time we don’t have a 4:18 to 5:15 classic. There were some superb pieces of skill yesterday : evasion skills, goal and point finishing , superb tackling , fielding , kick outs . The GAA fails to promote this but instead tolerates negative portrayal of our games epitomised by Rourke, Brolly, Spillane , who are GAA equivalent of the 2 old boys on the balcony in the muppets. I worry about the influence and accessibility of Sky but Canavan and McGuinness excellence compared to RTE is like day and night.
2. The super 8s concept is beyond farcical and I can’t believe that this concept was passed by the vast majority of counties who have no chance of involvement, talk about turkeys voting for Christmas . Where do I start? 75% of counties not involved, built around an unfair provincial and qualifier structure, reinforcing inequalities , The negative PR of an empty Croke Park, Croke Park being Dublin’s “neutral” venue😂, possibility of dead rubber games, “keeping the score down as opposed to trying to win , potential safety issues around packed inadequate home venues , cumulative prices for punters particularly families, more exposure for the Naysayers led by the 3 muppets.
3. Time for a 2 tiered championship structure , Gradings on the basis of league status, revitalising the league, with an alternative route to latter stages via provincial championships.
4. More compact county season , with all teams extended involvement until the last 8. More county games, lower prices.
5. Distinct Club competitions with or without county players to allow club competitions to proceed without county players but then have loads of games with their county players back.
6. GAA payoff the 3 RTE muppets (only half joking) and insist on a more positive promotion of our national games by our national broadcaster

[6th sam]

Regarding rule changes.
Agree with wobbler , it mustn’t be taxing for referees, and can’t involve a second official. It must be workable at all levels.
I would suggest that limiting to 5 consecutive fist passes is the only workable solution. The relieving kick pass in these circumstances must travel at least 15m in a forward direction (to avoid players introducing a dinky short kickpass or a Na ck-pass to keeper)  to overcome the new rule .

This would have to be trialled in a pre-season competitive setting eg Mckenna cup

[thewobbler]

Regarding rule changes.
Agree with wobbler , it mustn’t be taxing for referees, and can’t involve a second official. It must be workable at all levels.
I would suggest that limiting to 5 consecutive fist passes is the only workable solution. The relieving kick pass in these circumstances must travel at least 15m in a forward direction (to avoid players introducing a dinky short kickpass or a Na ck-pass to keeper)  to overcome the new rule .

This would have to be trialled in a pre-season competitive setting eg Mckenna cup

Sorry 6th Sam, but you’ve contradicted yourself here.

If it mustn’t be taxing for referees, it cannot involve making them keep pass counters in their head, and force them to adjudge the direction and distance of kick passes during normal play.

[BallyroanAbu]

1. We’ve heard it all before several times. Does anyone else feel that there is always excessive negativity around the quality of Gaelic  football. There are always bad games in any sport, but the media, backed up by every disgruntled losing supporter gets the boot into Gaelic football every time we don’t have a 4:18 to 5:15 classic. There were some superb pieces of skill yesterday : evasion skills, goal and point finishing , superb tackling , fielding , kick outs . The GAA fails to promote this but instead tolerates negative portrayal of our games epitomised by Rourke, Brolly, Spillane , who are GAA equivalent of the 2 old boys on the balcony in the muppets. I worry about the influence and accessibility of Sky but Canavan and McGuinness excellence compared to RTE is like day and night.
2. The super 8s concept is beyond farcical and I can’t believe that this concept was passed by the vast majority of counties who have no chance of involvement, talk about turkeys voting for Christmas . Where do I start? 75% of counties not involved, built around an unfair provincial and qualifier structure, reinforcing inequalities , The negative PR of an empty Croke Park, Croke Park being Dublin’s “neutral” venue😂, possibility of dead rubber games, “keeping the score down as opposed to trying to win , potential safety issues around packed inadequate home venues , cumulative prices for punters particularly families, more exposure for the Naysayers led by the 3 muppets.
3. Time for a 2 tiered championship structure , Gradings on the basis of league status, revitalising the league, with an alternative route to latter stages via provincial championships.
4. More compact county season , with all teams extended involvement until the last 8. More county games, lower prices.
5. Distinct Club competitions with or without county players to allow club competitions to proceed without county players but then have loads of games with their county players back.
6. GAA payoff the 3 RTE muppets (only half joking) and insist on a more positive promotion of our national games by our national broadcaster

I love a good football match, at the moment we are getting some but not enough of them.  The super 8's actually has exposed further that their may be only 2 or 3 teams each year at an elite level and the rest are a long way behind.  But this happens in sport, but I don't think it can be denied that the last two weekends. In what was considered more competitive fare both weekends 3/4 matches were awful.  That's not a huge sample size and I am not saying we have to change things but surely we have to look at things that may improve the spectacle. 

[Paudi Meehan]

Half way line back pass exclusion is the only means of addressing this. Of course will keep it in their defence for as long as they can but even that at least offers opponents a target they can go after

[Jinxy]

1. We’ve heard it all before several times. Does anyone else feel that there is always excessive negativity around the quality of Gaelic  football. There are always bad games in any sport, but the media, backed up by every disgruntled losing supporter gets the boot into Gaelic football every time we don’t have a 4:18 to 5:15 classic. There were some superb pieces of skill yesterday : evasion skills, goal and point finishing , superb tackling , fielding , kick outs . The GAA fails to promote this but instead tolerates negative portrayal of our games epitomised by Rourke, Brolly, Spillane , who are GAA equivalent of the 2 old boys on the balcony in the muppets. I worry about the influence and accessibility of Sky but Canavan and McGuinness excellence compared to RTE is like day and night.
2. The super 8s concept is beyond farcical and I can’t believe that this concept was passed by the vast majority of counties who have no chance of involvement, talk about turkeys voting for Christmas . Where do I start? 75% of counties not involved, built around an unfair provincial and qualifier structure, reinforcing inequalities , The negative PR of an empty Croke Park, Croke Park being Dublin’s “neutral” venue😂, possibility of dead rubber games, “keeping the score down as opposed to trying to win , potential safety issues around packed inadequate home venues , cumulative prices for punters particularly families, more exposure for the Naysayers led by the 3 muppets.
3. Time for a 2 tiered championship structure , Gradings on the basis of league status, revitalising the league, with an alternative route to latter stages via provincial championships.
4. More compact county season , with all teams extended involvement until the last 8. More county games, lower prices.
5. Distinct Club competitions with or without county players to allow club competitions to proceed without county players but then have loads of games with their county players back.
6. GAA payoff the 3 RTE muppets (only half joking) and insist on a more positive promotion of our national games by our national broadcaster

Nope.
There was a time I would have agreed with you, particularly in the era of so-called 'puke football' when there were actually some great teams and great football being played, but not anymore.
Forget about media negativity, forget about the 'purists' etc.
Our own eyes don't lie and I have never had less interest in watching inter-county gaelic football than I do right now.

[6th sam]

Regarding rule changes.
Agree with wobbler , it mustn’t be taxing for referees, and can’t involve a second official. It must be workable at all levels.
I would suggest that limiting to 5 consecutive fist passes is the only workable solution. The relieving kick pass in these circumstances must travel at least 15m in a forward direction (to avoid players introducing a dinky short kickpass or a Na ck-pass to keeper)  to overcome the new rule .

This would have to be trialled in a pre-season competitive setting eg Mckenna cup

Sorry 6th Sam, but you’ve contradicted yourself here.

If it mustn’t be taxing for referees, it cannot involve making them keep pass counters in their head, and force them to adjudge the direction and distance of kick passes during normal play.

It’s not as complicated as it sounds ,Rugby referees have to judge a backpass at all levels . And referees already count out the 5 seconds of advantage. I think counting out 5 handpasses is relatively simple but needs tested.

[thewobbler]

But it’s not just 5 keep-ball passes they’d be counting. It’d be 5 handpasses anywhere on the park, when his primary role should be identifying technical fouls, and those 5 passes would be intermingled with tackles and advantages.

Also do tell me what should happen if the fourth consecutive fist pass by Monaghan finds Conor McManus in the very top corner of a pitch. He obviously can’t kick it forward at that point. Or are you going to complicate things by having different rules for different areas of the pitch?

[Hound]

Limiting handpasses is a load of nonsense.

Dublin did as much kick passing as handpassing in the last 10 minutes, and some great attacking moves involve handpassing and off the shoulder running to breach defences.

The shot clock as well is a load of bull. Unless the aim is to encourage blanket defences.

Almost all the suggestions would benefit the team the brings everyone back. The blanket defence now depends on the opposition being thick and playing into your hands. Now, if a team were good enough to get themselves 4 or 5 points up, then they've every right to revert to blanket defence to keep ahead (if they think that's a clever tactic).
But a team 4 or 5 points down and hoping the opposition kick it in to their forwards who are all either tightly marked or doubly marked?? Why the hell would you do that when you have 3 or 4 free men in the half back line?

If you want to make a rule change, then the only one that makes sense would be a requirement to keep at least 4 or 5 men in the opposition half at all times.   

[6th sam]

But it’s not just 5 keep-ball passes they’d be counting. It’d be 5 handpasses anywhere on the park, when his primary role should be identifying technical fouls, and those 5 passes would be intermingled with tackles and advantages.

Also do tell me what should happen if the fourth consecutive fist pass by Monaghan finds Conor McManus in the very top corner of a pitch. He obviously can’t kick it forward at that point. Or are you going to complicate things by having different rules for different areas of the pitch?

I take your point , the  referees job is difficult . I think the advantage rule is an exsmple of a good rule which is unfortunately dependent on the capability of the referee , which has made it quite controversial.
Regarding Mcmanus in the corner, teams will learn to avoid such situations and avoidance of this becomes part of the decision making process on and off the ball.
The back pass is simple and I don’t accept refs will have much difficulty with this. As happens in rugby at lower levels, it has to be a clear forward pass, borderline passes will not be penalised.
The 5 fist pass rule is also simple in that the referee has to warn the team before the last pass, giving the team a chance to play it. Ie “no more fist passes” this happens in rugby league with 4th tackle, ( though to be fair the tackles and restarts are much slower and easy to count) . These rule changes are experiments and must be tested in competitive games at club and county level before becoming law.
Perhaps the simplest rule change( and there is precedent with this in 7s football ) no back passes in your own half. This would have prevented a lot of the negative play yesterday and invites opposing teams to push up in the opponents half, as the team in possession has less options.

[Stall the Bailer]

How much of a problem is this at all levels?
I don't believe it to be a big issue, and don't like seeing new rules being suggested due to a few games at inter county level. This isn't epidemic at all levels.

[longballin]

Football for the most part at county level is very sore in the eyes. Is a mix of uneven matches and the horrible new style with 15 going into defence and breaking at speed though some haven't mastered that. As the managers would say it is all about the result which I suppose it is but I would not be interested in watching it.
I find club football to be very good though here in Tyrone and much more looking forward to that championship.

[thewobbler]

How much of a problem is this at all levels?
I don't believe it to be a big issue, and don't like seeing new rules being suggested due to a few games at inter county level. This isn't epidemic at all levels.

It’s borderline epidemic in Down division 1 club football, and sadly Dublin have just validated it as an approach.

[thewobbler]

But it’s not just 5 keep-ball passes they’d be counting. It’d be 5 handpasses anywhere on the park, when his primary role should be identifying technical fouls, and those 5 passes would be intermingled with tackles and advantages.

Also do tell me what should happen if the fourth consecutive fist pass by Monaghan finds Conor McManus in the very top corner of a pitch. He obviously can’t kick it forward at that point. Or are you going to complicate things by having different rules for different areas of the pitch?

I take your point , the  referees job is difficult . I think the advantage rule is an exsmple of a good rule which is unfortunately dependent on the capability of the referee , which has made it quite controversial.
Regarding Mcmanus in the corner, teams will learn to avoid such situations and avoidance of this becomes part of the decision making process on and off the ball.
The back pass is simple and I don’t accept refs will have much difficulty with this. As happens in rugby at lower levels, it has to be a clear forward pass, borderline passes will not be penalised.
The 5 fist pass rule is also simple in that the referee has to warn the team before the last pass, giving the team a chance to play it. Ie “no more fist passes” this happens in rugby league with 4th tackle, ( though to be fair the tackles and restarts are much slower and easy to count) . These rule changes are experiments and must be tested in competitive games at club and county level before becoming law.
Perhaps the simplest rule change( and there is precedent with this in 7s football ) no back passes in your own half. This would have prevented a lot of the negative play yesterday and invites opposing teams to push up in the opponents half, as the team in possession has less options.

Referring rugby league isn’t comparable. Kicking the ball a distance whereby the referee is out of earshot only happens every 6 plays, and even then it’s eminently predictable that the receiver will go to ground within the new few seconds, allowing the ref to stay up with play.