Lack of receipts at National League games 13th Feb 2010

[T Fearon]

I availed of similar perks at discos etc 30 years go, but it hardly constitutes widespread fraud. As I said I observed a well known GAA personality and his entire family (every breed and seed, must have been about 20) being admitted to an NFL game two years ago, and it was an away game at that!

Doubt if you'd get into a Championship game as handy.

This is far from the insinuation at the heart of this thread though, that gatemen are stealing money.

[Franko]

Tony you are being unbelievably naive, the elephant in the room is a perfect way to describe this.

As an example, one of my kids came up to me last summer at a local club championship game with a roll of money in his hand (happy days says I ) saying he found it in the turnstiles where they had been playing.  I took him down and asked him to show me where it had been and he pointed to a small nook in the blockwork just below a shelf.  He said it was stuck in there.  I handed it in at the club house and it was announced but a club official since told me that it was never claimed.

Now it didn't just fall in there, I reckon it was the gate man's wee payday. I know the man and he has been doing the gate at this club for years which begs the obvious question.

I have also heard stories about officials taking the gate money to the pub and enjoying a few of the best on the back of the paying punters but they are only human after all   

[Dubh driocht]

Tony, You are being over defensive here. While you can never eliminate risk, the GAA has a duty to minimise it, in all aspects of it's operations. As I said in my original post, I'm not into bureaucracy but it seems to me that apart from a few places, the situation has actually got worse.
For the good of all, a simple system would address all the concerms expressed here.

[Puckoon]

Tony are you on the take yourself?

Why are you so defensive - all anyone is asking for is a little transparency into the gate takings of their hard earned money. Dont forget things are tight for everyone, so people certainly want to make sure money they are spending is going where it supposed to go.

[Tomorrow is another day]

All we are asking for here is a top down approach to good cash management systems so that punters like ourselves know when we pay in to games that our hard earned money is recorded properly and going to its intended home. This should be a code of conduct that is applied across all county and club games and people should be encouraged to report instances where this did not occur.

[T Fearon]

I agree. But at the same time, casting aspersions on the current modus operandi and in particular on individuals is dangerous, particularly without any evidence of wrongdoing (and I'm not talking about letting the odd mate or two in for free).

I am still fairly confident that systems are in place and as in the cash of all cash management operations, it would be foolish to divulge exactly what these are, for obvious reasons.

[theskull1]

So Tony, do you think it unfair that all priests now have to make sure that they are not left alone in the company of children? After all it was only a relatively small number of child abusing priests. They're not all deviants.

Or given the fact that the church want to make sure that priests don't get themselves into situations where they could be accused of any wrong doing, they now have issued new child protection guildlines to protect the children as well as the integrity of the priests themselves? And wouldn't you think that all well intentioned priests would welcome these moves?

[T Fearon]

Skull, several priests were convicted of child abuse and the church is in the dock.Why? Because concrete evidence came to light of the wrongdoing.

Has any such evidence come to light of serious fraud at the turnstiles? Has there ever been an individual convicted of such?

The way the world works, is that loss due to fraud, carelessness etc is identified, and systems are subsequently reviewed and amended appropriately to reduce the risk of recurrence.

I would therefore assume that the GAA is happy with its current systems, and these have been endorsed by its Auditors.

Why not contact the GAA with your concerns and lets see how they respond. I suspect they will say as I am saying that there is no evidence of any wrongdoing.

[bingobus]

Tony, you hace constantly harped onto auditors and there reliance on systems etc. Thats poppy wash and I'd have thought you'd have known that.

For instance, I have the latest set of accounts from the Monaghan county board. It has a disclaimer stating the the majority of funds is derived from gate receipts and fundraising activities and the accurancy of this cannot be fully controlled as they derived from cash and therefore not susceptable to independent audit verification.

Overall the audit report is very, very light, nowhere near as detailed as limited company.

There is very little control bar the big games. No-one is suggesting every man on the gate is on the take but it is the reponsibility of the GAA to have systems in place to remove the risk of fraud and remove the threat of a person committing fraud now or in the future. Accepting cash on one manned turnstyles is very weak in my eyes, your talk of camera's in turnstyles, spot checks etc is poor if the money is already in a mans pocket or passed back out through the turnstyles.

[T Fearon]

Agree with you, but how do you know systems are not already in place?

[Franko]

Agree with you, but how do you know systems are not already in place?

Because of the two examples I have set out above.

[Tomorrow is another day]

Agree with you, but how do you know systems are not already in place?

Because of the two examples I have set out above.

Tony you are being disproportionately defensive. The analogy with priests is very good. Volunteers dealing with cash at gates or wherever should consider are they being put in a compromising position i.e. without a system or and a second or even third person to validate the cash collection process. Also there should be a code of conduct laid down by the Central Committee to the county boards and in turn onto clubs highlighting best practice.

Lets be honest our organise has always been excellent at collecting and handling money so the degree of deficiency in this instance would tend to suggest that they do not want to tackle and address the matter. A bit like that other thorny topic of paying managers at club and county level.

[T Fearon]

I have not yet seen or been provided with evidence of widespread corruption or fraud, but I am all for good quality systems to enhance efficiency and control, and agree that these also produce security and safety for volunteers/staff.

[Bord na Mona man]

On a couple of occasions I've gone through a stile where the next person in line knew the turnstile operator and got in for the price of a wink.

It is interesting that some counties have moved towards the system of buying your ticket at a booth first instead of cash at the stile.
Someone involved in one particular county told me about when their county ground brought in this system.
Suddenly several great gaels and pillars of the community were no longer so eager to give up their free time to man the stiles when cash wasn't being taken. Coincidence maybe?

Personally I look forward to the day when you enter a ground with the swipe of your season ticket or your laser card and there is no cash handling involved.

[Tomorrow is another day]

Anybody got any positive experiences from this weekend showing good Gate Receipt processes??