Lack of receipts at National League games 13th Feb 2010

[magickingdom]

I went along to the game last night in Newry between Down and Meath. It was a great spectacle under lights drawing a very large crowd for a Valentines weekend night. However yet again I was annoyed at the complete lack of accountability in the financial process of entrance fees.

There were long queues at the turn-styles at when I handed over £26 for two passes no tickets / stubs / receipts were handed back to me. How can they keep track of the cash in such circumstances? It is illegal not to issue receipts. No business would operate like this. I would have grave concerns over the audit trail of such cash receivables.

This is in direct contrast to a hurling game I attended in Toomevara back in the summer 2009. There for a county championship game there were groups of two officials. One official would take the money from you and issue 2 stubs. 15 yards further into the ground another official would take one of the stubbs from you leaving you with one stubb as a receipt. This gave me the confidence that steps were being taken to close the gaps in accountability and validatiion of attendances and cash receipts. However you go to a "County" game and absolutely nothing is in place. It leaves me to conclude that it is either corrupt management or incompetent management but either way it is pretty poor stuff.

Anyone got any other experiences from this weekend's National League games?

its a joke and ive posted about it a few times on here, if the gaa want to get some extra money they could  start by cutting out the opportunity to fiddle. going into munster championship games in killarney with stacks of kids i have bargained with the guy on the stile and got a reduction. how can he do that?

[theskull1]

If I was one of the boys collecting vast sums of money at these events year in year out, I would be making sure that systems would be in place so that no one could throw accusations about me pocketing money. No one has been able to properly explain why this wouldn't cross them minds of the boys that actually do it. Surely their integrity is at risk without some level of control?

Turnstiles can give you attendance figures but not revenue

[Dubh driocht]

I think this debate is so important it should move from the Board to Congress.In my line of work I see people who were pillars of the community but when things were a bit tight or a relative was ill or they felt their contribution wasn't recognised etc etc.- I've heard them all.People are human- I hate bureaucracy as much as the next person, and recognise that our association is based on the volunteer ethos, but we need clear and transparent systems for money.
The worst example I ever saw was in Downpatrick 4 years ago for a Mc Kenna cup game between Down and Antrim. A larger than expected crowd turned out on a dog dirty January day and a lone official, without even a satchel , was stuffing tenners and twenties into his pocket while giving out change.I am not saying he was dipping but it was the height of nonsense. Like TIAD I saw the receipt system working clearly in Cusack Park ,Ennis, in 1992 when there were notices everywhere stating that everyone should get a receipt and asking punters to report to a desk if they hadn't received one.The Skull is right- we all have a responsibility to target the elephant in the room.

[Tomorrow is another day]

Guys  - I am delighted to see that I am not just the only one concerned about these matters, and as suggested above everyone is tarnished by poor systems as all volunteers operate under a cloud of suspicion.

This matter needs to be escalated and dealt with adequately. But it is a top down approach that is needed and can only work. Turkeys dont vote for Christmas so I do not see a club and in turn county sticking their head above the parapet here and drawing undue attention and ill will from other clubs and counties and dare I say it.... county officials.

[Aaron Boone]

There should be accountability and financial probity in all organisations, never mind a multi million pound operation like the GAA, and oit seems to be amateurish in terms of financial collections etc. I mean its not that long ago that an Ulster Official was stopped and robbed in broad dayliight on a main thoroughfare outside Dungannon when he was coveying the gate receipts of an Ulster semi final. How silly was that?
Yet surely the gaa's accounts are independently audited annually aong with the control systems etc, so presumably the current systems have been approved, so maybe there are control systems in terms of gate receipts that we are not aware of

That was very silly in hindsight, but hard to predict at the time. It's poss it's still going on in other provinces where one man brings the takings home. Lucky it was Antrim v Cavan (I think), so was before Antrim hit the big time and had the big crowds.

[Aaron Boone]

It was. Thanks sir.

24/6/07 it happened.

[Bogball XV]

The club final in 2004 was the same - not a receipt in sight - i told peter mckenna about it, I can't remember the response exactly, but he wasn't overly concerned!!

[Tomorrow is another day]

Does anyone know who the auditors of the GAA are?

[tyrone86]

At most if not all County grounds, you are required to go through a stile. The question is does the stile record every entrant?

I would be surprised if there is not some system of financial control as a fundamental part of the GAA's Corporate Governance Policy.

The free admission for u16s would skew the figures rendering them worthless anyway.

[T Fearon]

Lads, this is the GAA we are talking about, I doubt that they would leave much if any scope for funds of any description being misappropriated!

The risk is surely no greater than employees handling cash in any business, and no matter how robust the control systems are someone with intent will find a way to embezzle if they are so inclined.

I imagine if there is any fraud, its neglible.

[Bogball XV]

Lads, this is the GAA we are talking about, I doubt that they would leave much if any scope for funds of any description being misappropriated!

The risk is surely no greater than employees handling cash in any business, and no matter how robust the control systems are someone with intent will find a way to embezzle if they are so inclined.

I imagine if there is any fraud, its neglible.

[T Fearon]

Well have you any proof/evidence? I believe that the vast majority of people on the gates taking cash are trustworthy gaels, appointed to that position due to their proven trustworthiness and reliability. Thats not to say that I believe there has never been a pound or two that has gone missing, but until I see concrete evidence of widespread or even significant fraud, I will not yield to the popular perception that they are all on the make.

In any event, how can we trust those who control the really big money at GAA Headquarters, provincial council, County or Club level, not to be misappropriating funds, awarding contracts to their cronies for backhanders etc

Who next do you want the spotlight to be fixed on? Church collectors, Salvation Army, St Vincent De Paul Society?

[Tomorrow is another day]

Well have you any proof/evidence? I believe that the vast majority of people on the gates taking cash are trustworthy gaels, appointed to that position due to their proven trustworthiness and reliability. Thats not to say that I believe there has never been a pound or two that has gone missing, but until I see concrete evidence of widespread or even significant fraud, I will not yield to the popular perception that they are all on the make.

In any event, how can we trust those who control the really big money at GAA Headquarters, provincial council, County or Club level, not to be misappropriating funds, awarding contracts to their cronies for backhanders etc

Who next do you want the spotlight to be fixed on? Church collectors, Salvation Army, St Vincent De Paul Society?

This is the very point. While we have wholly inadequate processes then every person is under suspicion and it would be impossible for them to prove an innocence. Therefore the onus should be on the organisation at a national and central level as well at a provincial and county level to have systems and processes beyond reproach

[Farrandeelin]

At a Mayo club championship, a man from Cill Chomain club, I think was walking in with my father... He demanded a stub to say he was at the game. The man on the gate spent around 5 minutes checking the bag and gave him an old stub from one of the earlier years. I think that the system in Omagh was great on sunday where everyone HAD to have a ticket to get to the stand. Makes sense.

[T Fearon]

Tomorrow is another day, it is usually the other way round, ie innocent until proven guilty. Currently you are efectively libelling every single person who mans GAA turnstiles, without a shred of evidence.

By the way the only unseemly incident I have witnessed at GAA turnstiles occurred a couple of years ago, when a gate was opened for a well known GAA personality and his whole family, and they  were admitted free gratis to a NFL game. But even that is far removed from pocketing cash paid by punters.

As I said before the GAA has always been shall we say careful with money, so I would be surprised if robust  systems  are not already in place in terms of gate receipts