Premier League 2023-2024

[Look-Up!]

This is starting to turn into a he said she said which I'm sure no other posters are interested in.

Think City hold the record for points tally, both at the halfway and end point and winning margin too.

But I digress, City are a club rich in history, tradition and success all which predate the oil era. There is nothing you can say to change my opinion on that and it appears nothing I can say to you will make you acknowledge. So we'll leave it at that.

[Look-Up!]

A great man once said 'If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing.'

Grand when you're looking down on everyone but doubt his club would subscribe to that philosophy at present. Pep probably the only one could come out with that now with a straight face.

[GiveItToTheShooters]

They don't hold the record for points margin as I said, Liverpool do, they were crowned champions when 23 points clear after city dropped points to Chelsea, that's neither here nor there though, we know Liverpool are a big club. 

No bother, I will digress by saying a club with 8 major trophies in 115 years pre oil era is pretty embarrassing and plastic, and there's nothing you can say that will make me change my opinion on that.
Have a good evening👍🏼

[Captain Obvious]

Never said Manchester United v Liverpool was the only one but its a proper rivalry and goes back to when the latter was called Newton Heath and arguments over the ship canal trade between the two cites.

Manchester City was a middle of the road club in decades before becoming Oil Rich and even found themselves in league one. They had some success many decades previously however the club lost its soul and their success has been hollow under this ownership.

The media especially SKY Sports with their manufactured rivalry with Liverpool was a joke. Leicester City league success in 2016 and Arsenal if they do go on to win it this year will bring a lot more neutral interest than what Manchester City have brought the last 10 years.

[Look-Up!]

Losing the soul part is a bit much. They have just as much hard core support as anyone.

Having weekenders fill your stadium doesn't quantify soul. Someone here ran down Sunderland as one of these tin pot clubs. In L1 they brought >30k support to every game, 45k to playoffs, 75k to Wembley. They now bring >40k to championship matches. That's not Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc on a jolly, that's Mackems!

Utd got a march on a lot of clubs in the 90's with their stadium expansion and new revenue streams. Liverpool tried similar but couldn't with Anfield. But by f**k it wasn't from want of trying or more to the point f***ing over lifetime residents living around the stadium. But at least they got to keep their soul eh.

[seafoid]

The idea that Liverpool and Man Utd still have soul while Man City don't is bollocks. The clubs were bought by venal billionaires,  same as the rest in the top 6 and the Champions League and are run for their amusement. The only thing that matters is money. Even darts sold out to the money men. It's all the same.
Fans are plámásed every weekend. It won't last forever.

[gawa316]

A great man once said 'If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing.'

That's all well and good but what about 'First the worst, second the best, and 3rd the one with the hairy chest'?

[thewobbler]

The idea that Liverpool and Man Utd still have soul while Man City don't is bollocks. The clubs were bought by venal billionaires,  same as the rest in the top 6 and the Champions League and are run for their amusement. The only thing that matters is money. Even darts sold out to the money men. It's all the same.
Fans are plámásed every weekend. It won't last forever.

I agree wholeheartedly. Much as I dislike them, the emergence of Chelsea then City were integral reasons for the PL''s "product" surpassing the other main European leagues. Had it not been for them, the grotty greed of football would have manifested just as distastefully but among fewer clubs.

—-

That said, without a wage cap ever likely to pass, PL soccer does need mechanisms to at least create the illusion that it's possible for an ambitious, well-run club to incrementally improve into becoming a challenger, and one that isn't at the mercy of sports washing.

Financial penalties mean nothing, so the best solution is to make the punishment for cooking books, an actual deterrent. City should be ejected from all cup competitions now, and relegated to league 2, with Chelsea likely to follow. Yes they'd rise back to the top flight in 3 seasons. But it could be over a decade of squad and reputation building before they get close to the perch they're currently on. That's a proper deterrent.

[Milltown Row2]

The ref in the Sheff Utd v Wrexham game must be getting something from Ryan Reynolds

[seafoid]

The idea that Liverpool and Man Utd still have soul while Man City don't is bollocks. The clubs were bought by venal billionaires,  same as the rest in the top 6 and the Champions League and are run for their amusement. The only thing that matters is money. Even darts sold out to the money men. It's all the same.
Fans are plámásed every weekend. It won't last forever.

I agree wholeheartedly. Much as I dislike them, the emergence of Chelsea then City were integral reasons for the PL''s "product" surpassing the other main European leagues. Had it not been for them, the grotty greed of football would have manifested just as distastefully but among fewer clubs.

—-

That said, without a wage cap ever likely to pass, PL soccer does need mechanisms to at least create the illusion that it's possible for an ambitious, well-run club to incrementally improve into becoming a challenger, and one that isn't at the mercy of sports washing.

Financial penalties mean nothing, so the best solution is to make the punishment for cooking books, an actual deterrent. City should be ejected from all cup competitions now, and relegated to league 2, with Chelsea likely to follow. Yes they'd rise back to the top flight in 3 seasons. But it could be over a decade of squad and reputation building before they get close to the perch they're currently on. That's a proper deterrent.

Fenway own Liverpool and a few teams in the US where there are salary caps AFAIK. Billionaires don't appear to mind proper competition. It wouldn't change the gross cashflows. You can see how unequal spending on player salaries is in the EPL here
https://salarysport.com/football/#premier-league

It's most likely that the whole edifice will have to collapse before there is any meaningful change. The EPL is a Ponzi scheme.

[Armagh18]

The idea that Liverpool and Man Utd still have soul while Man City don't is bollocks. The clubs were bought by venal billionaires,  same as the rest in the top 6 and the Champions League and are run for their amusement. The only thing that matters is money. Even darts sold out to the money men. It's all the same.
Fans are plámásed every weekend. It won't last forever.

I agree wholeheartedly. Much as I dislike them, the emergence of Chelsea then City were integral reasons for the PL''s "product" surpassing the other main European leagues. Had it not been for them, the grotty greed of football would have manifested just as distastefully but among fewer clubs.

—-

That said, without a wage cap ever likely to pass, PL soccer does need mechanisms to at least create the illusion that it's possible for an ambitious, well-run club to incrementally improve into becoming a challenger, and one that isn't at the mercy of sports washing.

Financial penalties mean nothing, so the best solution is to make the punishment for cooking books, an actual deterrent. City should be ejected from all cup competitions now, and relegated to league 2, with Chelsea likely to follow. Yes they'd rise back to the top flight in 3 seasons. But it could be over a decade of squad and reputation building before they get close to the perch they're currently on. That's a proper deterrent.

Would the owners be bother with building from league 2? Surely they'd just go and buy an Everton/Villa/Leeds level club?

[thewobbler]

The idea that Liverpool and Man Utd still have soul while Man City don't is bollocks. The clubs were bought by venal billionaires,  same as the rest in the top 6 and the Champions League and are run for their amusement. The only thing that matters is money. Even darts sold out to the money men. It's all the same.
Fans are plámásed every weekend. It won't last forever.

I agree wholeheartedly. Much as I dislike them, the emergence of Chelsea then City were integral reasons for the PL''s "product" surpassing the other main European leagues. Had it not been for them, the grotty greed of football would have manifested just as distastefully but among fewer clubs.

—-

That said, without a wage cap ever likely to pass, PL soccer does need mechanisms to at least create the illusion that it's possible for an ambitious, well-run club to incrementally improve into becoming a challenger, and one that isn't at the mercy of sports washing.

Financial penalties mean nothing, so the best solution is to make the punishment for cooking books, an actual deterrent. City should be ejected from all cup competitions now, and relegated to league 2, with Chelsea likely to follow. Yes they'd rise back to the top flight in 3 seasons. But it could be over a decade of squad and reputation building before they get close to the perch they're currently on. That's a proper deterrent.

Would the owners be bother with building from league 2? Surely they'd just go and buy an Everton/Villa/Leeds level club?

But to do what? Should they spend roughly within those club's means, and there's no quick fix. Spend beyond their means and the the slippery slope appears again. Not sure how this scenario this would entice anyone.

[Look-Up!]

The idea that Liverpool and Man Utd still have soul while Man City don't is bollocks. The clubs were bought by venal billionaires,  same as the rest in the top 6 and the Champions League and are run for their amusement. The only thing that matters is money. Even darts sold out to the money men. It's all the same.
Fans are plámásed every weekend. It won't last forever.

I agree wholeheartedly. Much as I dislike them, the emergence of Chelsea then City were integral reasons for the PL''s "product" surpassing the other main European leagues. Had it not been for them, the grotty greed of football would have manifested just as distastefully but among fewer clubs.

—-

That said, without a wage cap ever likely to pass, PL soccer does need mechanisms to at least create the illusion that it's possible for an ambitious, well-run club to incrementally improve into becoming a challenger, and one that isn't at the mercy of sports washing.

Financial penalties mean nothing, so the best solution is to make the punishment for cooking books, an actual deterrent. City should be ejected from all cup competitions now, and relegated to league 2, with Chelsea likely to follow. Yes they'd rise back to the top flight in 3 seasons. But it could be over a decade of squad and reputation building before they get close to the perch they're currently on. That's a proper deterrent.

Leicester won a league but didn't kick on because it's impossible. It requires changing the whole wage structure of the club in order to hold onto players and stop the big boys from pillaging your squad. Try to compete without a BIG sugar daddy you go broke, simples.

If FFP was implemented as some would like, there would be even more of a monopoly. I don't mind the way it is, at least it gets mixed up a bit and less boring. And "smaller" clubs have a better chance this way, by attracting said sugar daddy.

[Look-Up!]

TBH in a way the European Super league might have been better to happen- for everyone else at least. It would have shown up the big boys for what they are and could have turned sour eventually.

Domestic leagues would have continued as they are on a more level and sensible footing. If the other thing did go tits up would have been some craic to see them skulking home trying to get back in again.

[AustinPowers]

So it's like ... nope, all above board here.  Oh wait,   115 dodgy cases.  How'd we miss those?

It's a bit like  when saville died.  Nobody seen  or heard nothing for 50 years .  Then...oh look,  3000 allegations down the back of the filing cabinet

Makes you wonder what's going on  behind the curtains, and not just  City's curtains