Championship structures - the never ending saga?

[shark]

Why would the separation of club and county be the ruination of club football?

It would be the end of county football in less successful counties. Players won't play county if it means they can't play with their clubs.

[AZOffaly]

And a player making the county panel will be a disaster for a club, rather than an honour, especially after they developing him as a child.

That said, it might be the cleanest way to resolve the whole fixtures debacle.

[Farrandeelin]

And a player making the county panel will be a disaster for a club, rather than an honour, especially after they developing him as a child.

That said, it might be the cleanest way to resolve the whole fixtures debacle.

AZ sums up the point I was trying to make. Also people wouldn't go to watch club games if there was simultaneous calendar.

[Zulu]

And a player making the county panel will be a disaster for a club, rather than an honour, especially after they developing him as a child.

That said, it might be the cleanest way to resolve the whole fixtures debacle.

AZ sums up the point I was trying to make. Also people wouldn't go to watch club games if there was simultaneous calendar.

As shark says, most players in weaker counties would choose their club unless they were getting paid to play for their county (which won't happen). In stronger counties it might be different but if it did happen I think that would b a great boost for the club game as we could give those lads a proper season which is all that really matters at that level. I don't think the attendance at club games is an argument at all.

[AZOffaly]

And a player making the county panel will be a disaster for a club, rather than an honour, especially after they developing him as a child.

That said, it might be the cleanest way to resolve the whole fixtures debacle.

AZ sums up the point I was trying to make. Also people wouldn't go to watch club games if there was simultaneous calendar.

As shark says, most players in weaker counties would choose their club unless they were getting paid to play for their county (which won't happen). In stronger counties it might be different but if it did happen I think that would b a great boost for the club game as we could give those lads a proper season which is all that really matters at that level. I don't think the attendance at club games is an argument at all.

That's just speculation. There's no way of telling that. And if that were the case, then it would kill the inter county game. So I'm not sure that either scenario is very palatable.

It would be the easiest way of sorting out the fixtures issue, but you'd have to be very careful you didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. At the end of the day, your club is your club, even in strong counties.

[Zulu]

I'm not advocating it but I don't agree it would be a disaster for clubs as the most important thing for clubs and club players is getting plenty of games in a structured matter, or it should be at least.

I don't think it is really speculation to say most club players in weaker counties would opt to stay with their clubs as it is plenty do anyway. But I'm sure some would opt for the county and some players in strong counties would opt for their clubs.

It isn't going to happen anyway but if it did I think clubs might find it to be a better world.

[AZOffaly]

I'm not advocating it but I don't agree it would be a disaster for clubs as the most important thing for clubs and club players is getting plenty of games in a structured matter, or it should be at least.

I don't think it is really speculation to say most club players in weaker counties would opt to stay with their clubs as it is plenty do anyway. But I'm sure some would opt for the county and some players in strong counties would opt for their clubs.

It isn't going to happen anyway but if it did I think clubs might find it to be a better world.

I'm not sure the bit in bold is true. Yes they want a structured calendar, absolutely. But do they want it at the expense of having to compete in championships without their best players? I doubt that very much.

As I said, it would take a lot of thinking to get it fair and right, but I also did say it would be the easiest solution to fixtures chaos and calendar, but at what cost.

I wouldn''t be 100% against it by the way, but you'd have to incentivise clubs to continue to put in the work and you'd have to strictly limit how many lads could be called up to the county from one club, and also when they could be called up.

[Zulu]

AZ, we're talking about something that won't happen but if it did then I think it would be fine for clubs. Every other sport survives just fine, thrives in many cases, with their best players playing at higher levels. It would be a culture change for GAA folk and will never happen without professionalism anyway but if it did and it was the same for everyone then we'd adjust. Most clubs don't have senior county players anyway and of those that do, the majority only have one or two.

[AZOffaly]

Rugby has not thrived at club level. Absolutely not. And the GAA is the only sporting organisation actively based on a sense of parish or location. Don't underestimate how dangerous a badly thought out attempt at that would be.

But anyway, it won't happen.

[Jinxy]

AZ, we're talking about something that won't happen but if it did then I think it would be fine for clubs. Every other sport survives just fine, thrives in many cases, with their best players playing at higher levels. It would be a culture change for GAA folk and will never happen without professionalism anyway but if it did and it was the same for everyone then we'd adjust. Most clubs don't have senior county players anyway and of those that do, the majority only have one or two.

In Ireland?
Don't think so.

[Zulu]

Not an expert on rugby but outside of the Cork Cons and Shannons etc. is there any difference for the likes of Clonmel or Ennis rugby clubs with the introduction of professionalism? Is there not a thriving soccer scene in Ireland below the LOI level with many clubs having decent facilities and plenty of players?

Soccer the world over seems to thrive despite the fact that kids readily transfer to better clubs even within their locality. All sports bar GAA have some kind of pathway to elite level that involves or can involve leaving your original club.

Of course there'd be issues and one of the genuinely great things about the GAA is the fact we don't tend to leave our home clubs and certainly not to other local clubs to gain medals but club level GAA should be providing players with regular competitive games and if we don't do that soon I think we'll lose way more players in the future.

The last time I lived at home I took my home club's adult footballers. The season was so disrupted and most of the time we had no idea when our next game was that I got little or no enjoyment out of it. I'm not sure I'd get involved at adult level again in Ireland and I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in that.

[AZOffaly]

There certainly needs to be something done calendar wise, no argument with that. And again, the easiest solution would be to only have club players playing club, including championship, and they only get to play with their county players if the county happens to be finished for the year. You'd have a lot of club members hoping for a first round qualifier exit But the easiest is not always the best.

But as regards soccer and rugby and the like, there are very few avenues for a club soccer player to move on to the 'next' level. How many junior soccer clubs are losing players because he is selected for a league of Ireland club, or goes to England? Very few. In contrast every single GAA club in every county has probably had at least 1 lad wear the county jersey. The risk, as a soccer club, is not of losing a lot of players to England or LOI. A GAA club would certainly be at a higher risk of losing its better players to a county squad.

This is going around in circles though.

[shark]

And a player making the county panel will be a disaster for a club, rather than an honour, especially after they developing him as a child.

That said, it might be the cleanest way to resolve the whole fixtures debacle.

AZ sums up the point I was trying to make. Also people wouldn't go to watch club games if there was simultaneous calendar.

As shark says, most players in weaker counties would choose their club unless they were getting paid to play for their county (which won't happen). In stronger counties it might be different but if it did happen I think that would b a great boost for the club game as we could give those lads a proper season which is all that really matters at that level. I don't think the attendance at club games is an argument at all.

That's just speculation. There's no way of telling that. And if that were the case, then it would kill the inter county game. So I'm not sure that either scenario is very palatable.

It would be the easiest way of sorting out the fixtures issue, but you'd have to be very careful you didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. At the end of the day, your club is your club, even in strong counties.

I can only speak from a Westmeath perspective. It's a county in which the general public don't give GAA a second thought. Getting outnumbered 3:1 by Offaly supporters in Mullingar this year shows that. As a result the aura around being an inter county player is not that great. The county footballers panel dropped to 22 players after the league was over. They begged some lads to join the panel after that to get back to 30ish. My club normally has a few on the panel and knowing these lads (current and past) they would all to a man refuse to play county if it meant they couldn't play club championship. The county team would die.

[AZOffaly]

Exactly my point. In counties where the county team is a big draw, the clubs would suffer hugely, and would have to ask themselves about producing county players. Take Thurles Sarsfields for example, they'd be losing about 6 players. And then the smaller clubs would suffer as much. Killenaule losing Bubbles O'Dwyer, or Kilruane losing Niall O'Meara would be very hard to take.

In the other counties where the club is king, you might end up killing the county team.

Neither scenario is palatable in my view, but as I keep saying, if we could come up with some proper version of it, it might be more palatable, and solve the fixture nightmare.

Having said all that, I'm not sure Dessie Dolan or John Heslin would choose their club over Westmeath would they?

[shark]

Exactly my point. In counties where the county team is a big draw, the clubs would suffer hugely, and would have to ask themselves about producing county players. Take Thurles Sarsfields for example, they'd be losing about 6 players. And then the smaller clubs would suffer as much. Killenaule losing Bubbles O'Dwyer, or Kilruane losing Niall O'Meara would be very hard to take.

In the other counties where the club is king, you might end up killing the county team.

Neither scenario is palatable in my view, but as I keep saying, if we could come up with some proper version of it, it might be more palatable, and solve the fixture nightmare.

Having said all that, I'm not sure Dessie Dolan or John Heslin would choose their club over Westmeath would they?

I don't know Dessie personally (despite playing against him numerous times), so it's hard to say, but he is a serious club man. Heslin might be in the minority, he had a transfer request to another Westmeath club blocked in the past. As mentioned above,  GAA is different to soccer and rugby. Imagine the pressure within a community, "ah sure the county will win nothing, you can't leave us and we so close to winning the championship the last few years", etc etc