Championship structures - the never ending saga?

[macdanger2]

The only change needed to sort out the club calendar is by simply reducing the length of time the championship takes - all quarter finals over 1-2 weekends and the same with semi finals.

In fairness, eliminating draws and pulling forward the final by two weeks have been proposed and rejected by congress - both would have made a big difference to fixture congestion

[Esmarelda]

It's not a bad plan, but the current system of knockout QFs is better than round robin QFs because we are still amateur.

People who proclaim round robin just haven't thought it through. In the the last round of games , what happens if:
- both teams are already out. Nobody would give a flying fig. A week or two to prepare for an utterly meaningless game , when the players could be back at their clubs. I'd love to see the ticket sales for this one!
- both teams already through. A shadow boxing contest just to decide who the semi final opponent will be. A waste of time
- a team already out versus a team needing a win. Automatic controversy about whether the team who are out are trying hard enough? How do you ensure they pick a proper team, and not just a completely experimental line up with an eye to next year?

The current system is by miles the best system in my opinion, but it may take a new system to come in for people to realise it. The imbalance of the provincials is the weakened in fairness. But we could go a way to solving it by allowing teams to move province if they want (not by force) like Galway in hurling

Can't agree with the current system being the best, it has a majority of fans, players and managers pissed off so it has to change. The round robin at the 1/4 final stage is ridiculous for the reasons you pointed out though. The GPA's round robin at the start of the championship is ideal though with 24 out of 32 teams progressing and benefits for finishing top. Division 4 teams would benefit from a home game against a top seed and will know that 1 win would be enough to get 4 championship games which will aid development.
The provincials would be downgraded somewhat but there is still silverware to play for and division 2 and 3 teams would have a massive incentive to really go for their provincial crown to become a top seed in the group stage.
The league would also benefit a little from the GPA proposal.

Downside would be an end to dual players and the Hurling calender might need tweaking to facilitate the extra games in early summer.

I quite like the GPA's idea but I think the league would need to be curtailed to allow time for club games.

I don't agree that the current system pisses off the majority. Apart from the A/B thing being unbalance and the odd six day turnaround I think it's quite good, relative to the other options.

The ones that don't like it are the media who can't wait until the August Bank Holiday so that they can do some real analysis.

[The Trap]

When Duffy was elected president I have no doubt that he intended to have the club game at the top of the agenda but when he went into meet his buddies they must have said to him "now Padraig none of this club shite, there is no money in that you know" and he has been turned. Nothing he has done since becoming president has helped the club game. This new proposal will further diminish it. Do the powers in Croke park know the state of the club game? County boards don't even care about the club game in their own county ffs!
There is no chance of clubs being put to the forefront as that will not generate money. Money is all that matters. The only reason they are making these proposals now is because attendances are down and Revenue therefore too.
In the next 20/30 years more and more clubs will fold.......there will be a large drop in adult numbers playing gaa due to lack of games.
I would not be surprised if other counties become like Kilkenny and don't field football teams......eg Waterford, WIcklow, Louth..........
Why not play the provincial championships and an all Ireland in an open draw format? Oh I know because other ideas would generate more money.........

[Red Hand Man]

Paraic Duffy is not the president of the GAA.

[RealSpiritof98]

The GAA family has spoken ''''''''''''''Things need to change'''''''''''' GAA Hierarchy ''''''' You want change mother f**ker we'll give you change.... eat that bitches.

Full time workers working for each other, to the detriment of its life blood and founders .... Geogie boy Orwell never been so relevant. Time for the people to take back their game or else we will turn into every other capitalist monopoly Murdoch has got his hands on, where business is key success and development dont matter.

[omaghjoe]

Im glad they realise there is a problem that needs fixing

Think its a good enough start, a step in the right direction

[Throw ball]

So the solution to the problem and unfairness in the structures is to keep things mostly the same but give the top 8 teams more games so that they can get more more and more experience so that they can get even better and the gap can widen. The rest can play their games a bit earlier so that their best players can head of to America a bit earlier so that their club scene can continue with lesser players and little chance for development. Great idea.

[vallankumous]

Fundamentally, the issue is that the Provincial paths are inequitable, and an anachronism that should be properly reworked so that they don't play such a central part in the Championship.

That's been a beef for a long time at this stage, and throwing in more games at the post-Provincials' juncture is just, well, typical.

The biggest failure of Croke Park is pandering to this idea that the All Ireland Championship starts with the first round of the Provincial Championship.
Not challenging media or nailing down the message that they are completely separate competitions in their own right is leading to this idea that Provincial Championship is a just a matter for course.

This nonsense where a losing team is automatically linked to 'the back door' is a joke. If you lose in your provincial Championship it should be treated like a loss in it's own right. Mayo, Donegal, Monaghan, Roscommon etc should be seen as losers unless or until they win a QF.

Rolling one competition into the other weakens the Provincial Championship.
If the Provincial Championship and Qualifiers were played early in the year with an 8 week gap before the All Ireland Championship you'd see a mush better approach to the Provincial Championship by teams, spectators and media.

Galway will not get the Credit they deserve for winning Connacht because they lost in the first round of a different competition. 

Much of this problem lays with sponsorship too. Each Competition should have separate deals with no overlapping. It would encourage the sponsor to promote their specific competition.
If a sponsor takes on a Provincial Championship and the All Ireland Championship they should not be allowed to promote the latter until the previous has run it's course.

[The Trap]

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 04, 2016, 03:54:18 PM

Fundamentally, the issue is that the Provincial paths are inequitable, and an anachronism that should be properly reworked so that they don't play such a central part in the Championship.

That's been a beef for a long time at this stage, and throwing in more games at the post-Provincials' juncture is just, well, typical.




The biggest failure of Croke Park is pandering to this idea that the All Ireland Championship starts with the first round of the Provincial Championship.
Not challenging media or nailing down the message that they are completely separate competitions in their own right is leading to this idea that Provincial Championship is a just a matter for course.

This nonsense where a losing team is automatically linked to 'the back door' is a joke. If you lose in your provincial Championship it should be treated like a loss in it's own right. Mayo, Donegal, Monaghan, Roscommon etc should be seen as losers unless or until they win a QF.

Rolling one competition into the other weakens the Provincial Championship.
If the Provincial Championship and Qualifiers were played early in the year with an 8 week gap before the All Ireland Championship you'd see a mush better approach to the Provincial Championship by teams, spectators and media.

Galway will not get the Credit they deserve for winning Connacht because they lost in the first round of a different competition. 

Much of this problem lays with sponsorship too. Each Competition should have separate deals with no overlapping. It would encourage the sponsor to promote their specific competition.
If a sponsor takes on a Provincial Championship and the All Ireland Championship they should not be allowed to promote the latter until the previous has run it's course.


Totally agree with this.

Why not play the league in Jan-March, Provincial Championships Apr-May, All Ireland Open Draw Jun-Jul and then leave Aug-Dec for club football only. That way clubs could start their pre-season in about May, play pre-season competitions in Jun, start league in July, build league up in August, play club championship in Sept/Oct, All Ireland club championship in Nov/Dec

[Rossfan]

So the solution to the problem and unfairness in the structures is to keep things mostly the same but give the top 8 teams more games so that they can get more more and more experience so that they can get even better and the gap can widen. The rest can play their games a bit earlier so that their best players can head of to America a bit earlier so that their club scene can continue with lesser players and little chance for development. Great idea.

Let's get the little people out of the way early so the big boys can have the playground all to themselves for longer.

[AZOffaly]

This is what I mean by defining the problem. Inter County players want a change to the format, but they want everyone to be in the All Ireland proper, no B championships etc. A large portion of the media seem to want a change to the format that allows the big guns to play each other more often. (This is obviously because it's easier to sell content about Kerry v Tyrone than Kerry v Waterford).

Then other people want a change to the format for other reasons, like uneven provincial setups etc.

Until we have consensus on what the issue(s) is/are, then any proposed solution will have a huge amount of detractors, and also will likely end up making some problems worse or introduce new ones.

[manfromdelmonte]

So the solution to the problem and unfairness in the structures is to keep things mostly the same but give the top 8 teams more games so that they can get more more and more experience so that they can get even better and the gap can widen. The rest can play their games a bit earlier so that their best players can head of to America a bit earlier so that their club scene can continue with lesser players and little chance for development. Great idea.

Let's get the little people out of the way early so the big boys can have the playground all to themselves for longer.

isn't that the way most competitions are run off?
FA Cup
Champions League
European Rugby
World Cup soccer

[maccer]

Those 4 competitions are from professional money driven sports that have little or no connection with grassroots. There is no chance for exams that a player with a Leinster junior league side could play champions league with dundalk and go back to Leinster junior league a few weeks later.

We're always told gaa is unique in that regard. Your neighbour and club mate can get to play in the biggest days. This proposal is another break in that unique link. It shows disregard to clubs and lesser counties

[The Trap]

Quote from: Rossfan on Today at 09:01:03 AM



Quote from: Throw ball on Today at 08:01:42 AM

So the solution to the problem and unfairness in the structures is to keep things mostly the same but give the top 8 teams more games so that they can get more more and more experience so that they can get even better and the gap can widen. The rest can play their games a bit earlier so that their best players can head of to America a bit earlier so that their club scene can continue with lesser players and little chance for development. Great idea.




Let's get the little people out of the way early so the big boys can have the playground all to themselves for longer.


isn't that the way most competitions are run off?
FA Cup
Champions League
European Rugby
World Cup soccer

That's what some people see as the problem manfromdelmonte.......the GAA are going down the global sports route and chasing the pound. Is this what the AMATEUR GAA is supposed to be about?

We have indigenous games to be very proud of but we are the only country that play them (Irish people play them around the world). We are the only country that can protect the games, look after the people who play them. If we continue to go down this route how many counties are going to be serious football counties in 20 years time?

[ha ha derry]

the sooner a tiered football championship the better. alot of counties will oppose this but thats life. long term they will learn the value of this. hurling counties opposed it at the start but if you look at the reactions and joy of the winners of the ring, rackard and meagher competitions you,ll see what it means.