Ulster Championship 2020

Started by J70, October 26, 2020, 03:19:04 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Angelo

Quote from: Dreadnought on November 17, 2020, 09:52:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 17, 2020, 06:00:11 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 17, 2020, 04:06:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 17, 2020, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 17, 2020, 11:40:48 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 17, 2020, 11:33:10 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 17, 2020, 10:12:10 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 17, 2020, 10:05:34 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on November 17, 2020, 09:57:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 17, 2020, 09:43:46 AM

The goal came from sloppy defending. You could trace most scores back to a point where a referee makes a mistake. There is no way Down should be able to work a score from that situation so easily so to blame the referee for that one is absolutely laughable.

What if a Down player kicked it straight to a Cavan player from the move and Cavan went and scored a goal? Would you have blamed the ref for that?

I know it came from sloppy defending, but you repeatedly miss the point, that sloppy defending wouldn't have happened like that if Cavan rightly got the ball. That goal came from the same possession within 10 seconds of that mark being kicked. A mark within the 45, which is obviously wrong. All I'm saying, is that if that was not a mark, but a sideline to Cavan, then that exact move would not have happened, and we can't say that goal would have happened. That's a big swing. You're over complicating the whole situation. The fact is that goal would not have happened if Cavan got the sideline ball. Jeez man...

I'm not the one completely missing the point, it's you is missing the point. If we apply your logic, you could trace most scores back to a refereeing mistake, if you look at the Cavan penalty you could probably argue a free that Down should have been awarded in the minute or two before it and argue that if that free had been awarded the goal wouldn't have been scored.

The bottom line is, the point that you keep missing is, that the award of the free is not the reason Down scored that goal, no team should be able to run the ball from their 45 yard line without having a glove laid on them and score a goal. That goal was not the referee's fault. If you want to attribute every minor error the ref makes to a score you could be there all day.

The difference between that mistake and the Reilly one is absolute night and day.

Ok, answer me this simply. Would that goal have been scored in that way, if Cavan got the sideline ball, and Down did not get the 45?

Quite possibly if that's the way Cavan were set up in the first half.

It was the wrong decision but it was not the reason for the goal. Allowing a team to run the ball from their own half without getting a glove on them is not the referee's fault.

So you think the exact same goal, with the exact same move would happen, even if Cavan got the ball. Please stop man  ;D ;D you're embarrassing yourself

They may well have scored a goal that half, but not that one, as both teams would have set up for the sideline ball differently, and Down would not have had the ball to attack a stretched Cavan defence. That is my point, just ridiculous you think they could have scored that goal if the decision went the other way.

It's very possible Down would have scored a similar goal yes. Down ran the ball from their 45 yard line without a Cavan player laying a glove on them.

You are fairly reaching to be putting the blame at the referee in that situation.

So you're finally admitting that Down would not have scored that goal if the ball went to Cavan? Glad you've seen the light. Finally. And if they could have scored similar goals, why didn't they? Fact is they benefitted from a bad referring decision. Luckily Cavan won, so it didn't matter so much in the grand scheme

Couldn't tell you.

What ifs aren't certain.

Indeed, but we can be certain that goal wouldn't have been scored if Down weren't awarded that mark

We simply cannot. What ifs aren't certain so I fail to see how you could conclude that.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Dreadnought

Quote from: Angelo on November 18, 2020, 02:23:18 PM

We simply cannot. What ifs aren't certain so I fail to see how you could conclude that.

Of course we can be certain, the entire move that Down made for that goal would therefore not have happened, as Cavan would have the ball and they'd be attacking instead. We can be absolutely 100% certain that the goal would not have been scored in that way if Cavan got the ball. I really don't understand how you think differently, all players would have set up in a different formation with a Cavan ball...

Anyway, on to the match. Weather looking to be an ok afternoon on Sunday. Good day will suit Donegal, although if the pitch is still heavy, and the goalmouth/20 areas are re-laid then they could lift a bit. Think Cavan will learn from last year and the games this year. Donegal still will likely win, but maybe not as big a margin as some are saying. The war of words from both camps has started already. Be interesting to see where things are by Sunday.

Orior

If Cavan got a 10 point lead in the first half would they know what to do next?
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

bannside

Not happening Orior. This Donegal team is a different animal this year. I can see a dozen points in it and thats not being disrespectful.

An Watcher

No disrespect to cavan but I'd say the donegal management team will have one eye on the semi final already. They'll churn out the usual lines, one game at a time, cavan will be tough etc etc but realistically the dubs are on the horizon. Think I'm correct in that it's ulster v Leinster this year?

imtommygunn

Donegal turning into a very good team but I don't get why people think they'll beat Dublin. I would love to be wrong but I just really don't see it.

Dreadnought

Quote from: Orior on November 18, 2020, 03:46:20 PM
If Cavan got a 10 point lead in the first half would they know what to do next?

Probably go on to have an even better second half, like they've done in every match since the restart! :D

Dreadnought

Quote from: An Watcher on November 18, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
No disrespect to cavan but I'd say the donegal management team will have one eye on the semi final already. They'll churn out the usual lines, one game at a time, cavan will be tough etc etc but realistically the dubs are on the horizon. Think I'm correct in that it's ulster v Leinster this year?

Absolutely fine by Cavan. Let them do that, that's a sure fire way of slipping up. If they take one eye off, that's when a team like Cavan will beat you, a team when doesn't know it's dead and won't go away will take advantage of concentration slipping

J70

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 18, 2020, 04:00:48 PM
Donegal turning into a very good team but I don't get why people think they'll beat Dublin. I would love to be wrong but I just really don't see it.

I don't think anyone is really saying we'll beat Dublin.

They're saying we're the most likely to put it up to Dublin now that Kerry are gone (I'd have Mayo in that category, personally).

I'd say most still would have Dublin down to win it by five or six points.

I'd be far more worried about a game against Mayo, if we did somehow get through Cavan and Dublin. Dublin would be a free hit. Mayo just have our number and physically bully us. Maybe this would be the year to change that, but last year was supposed to be, and the whole team wilted from the challenge, except for Murphy's Superman act to try and drag us through single-handedly.

Itchy

Quote from: An Watcher on November 18, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
No disrespect to cavan but I'd say the donegal management team will have one eye on the semi final already. They'll churn out the usual lines, one game at a time, cavan will be tough etc etc but realistically the dubs are on the horizon. Think I'm correct in that it's ulster v Leinster this year?

It is disrespect to think like that and I really hope  that they are thinking like that.

J70

Quote from: Itchy on November 18, 2020, 04:41:07 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on November 18, 2020, 04:00:14 PM
No disrespect to cavan but I'd say the donegal management team will have one eye on the semi final already. They'll churn out the usual lines, one game at a time, cavan will be tough etc etc but realistically the dubs are on the horizon. Think I'm correct in that it's ulster v Leinster this year?

It is disrespect to think like that and I really hope  that they are thinking like that.

They didn't think like that against Armagh. They didn't in last year's final.

All Bonner has to say is "Cork!".

bannside

I will be the first to applaud you Itchy if you are competitive against Donegal. As I say I dont think Cavan are a bad team, but I think Donegal are 20 - 30% better than last year which is a large amount. Yes J70, Mayo did put you to the sword easily that night in Castlebar, but you were a very tired team....peaking in May to beat Tyrone, again in Ulster final six weeks later, again versus Kerry drawing in Croke Park and I had a feeling you would go out like a light the way you did.

This year....fresh, hungry, four or five new players, Rochford in and playing with a real swagger.

I think they could go all the way, honestly.

Angelo

There's a number of reasons Donegal are being tipped to beat Dublin.

They were actually flying it up until the Mayo game last year. A lot of their big men didn't perform but it's also worth noting the injury problems, Ban Gallagher is a huge player for them, Neil McGee is still a vital cog and he was also missing. They lost J McGee in midfield early due to injury, think McGonagle missed the Championship last year and Paddy McGrath also picked up a bad injury in that game. And it's Mayo in Castlebar in a knockout game and Mayo were terrific.

They are advancing well Donegal, you look at Mogan this year who has been superb, McGonagle in midfield has been great. Langan, Niall O'Donnell and Thompson have all come on leaps and bounds. A semi-final with Dublin will be the big test. Donegal did have two important games against Tyrone since the resumption that both sides needed a win in and Donegal won both matches. The routinely swatted aside Armagh at the weekend and they're doing this with Murphy and McHugh being relatively quiet. For the first time in a while Donegal look like they are actually more than a Murphy and McHugh double act.

Then there's the other side of the coin - Dublin. We still have questions, new manager, unsettled team and possibly undercooked, no McCaffrey, winter football though Croke Park still plays well but Dublin were iffy enough in the league in what will be similar conditions. I saw bits and pieces of the two games, Howard is on the bench, so is Mannion. I don't think Fenton is going that well and McCarthy has been quiet enough. I think Meath could actually give them a right go but we'll see. Bar Kilkenny and Bugler so far I haven't really seen too many of those Dublin players look at their best and you could find the hunger may not be there this year with the strange atmosphere about the Championship.

I certainly don't think anyone from the pack has as good a chance at an All Ireland as there is this year.

GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

GiveItToTheShooters

Everyone jumping on the Donegal hype train bandwagon, that's all it is.
Dublin are still the team to beat.

StephenC

I think every year (for the last few), people have been dying to think that there's a team that'll put it up to the Dubs. There's a desperation there; a hope that the Championship isn't inevitable. With Kerry gone, people are turning to Donegal and Mayo, and of course, the column inches still have to be written.

IMO we don't deserve to be talken about as challengers to the Dubs. We've shite the bed the last 2 years when the pressure came on, and suddenly we're going to beat what is probably the greatest Gaeic Football team ever?

Cavan will give us a right rattle in the Ulster final. I'll be shocked and incredibly disappointed if we don't win it (no offence to the Cavan Gaels) but it's not a foregone conclusion.

We're a good team; probably as skillful a bunch as I've ever seen line out for us, but I don't think we are the great hope that the country is waiting for.