The IRISH RUGBY thread

[AZOffaly]

Bundee Aki and Tyler Blyendaal training with Ireland this week.

Still have mixed thoughts on this whole overseas player situation.

It's a farce but it's a farce that everyone is at, from the All Blacks to England.

Yeah thats true. Would a better situation not be making overseas players who wish to play international rugby play for European, Australian & NZ Barbarian sides  rather than becoming 'token' Irish, Welsh or Englishmen?

I think we just need to change the way we look at International Rugby. You're not representing your country, you are representing your union. So CJ Stander is not representing his country, his country is South Africa. He is representing his Union which is the IRFU. Likewise the Vunapola brothers are representing the RFU, and so on.

I dunno. I like cheering for Ireland. I can't imagine getting excited about how the IRFU gets on.

Are you cheering for Ireland when 3 or 4 of the lads are from South Africa, New Zealand or somewhere else?

[Tony Baloney]

Bundee Aki and Tyler Blyendaal training with Ireland this week.

Still have mixed thoughts on this whole overseas player situation.

It's a farce but it's a farce that everyone is at, from the All Blacks to England.

Yeah thats true. Would a better situation not be making overseas players who wish to play international rugby play for European, Australian & NZ Barbarian sides  rather than becoming 'token' Irish, Welsh or Englishmen?

I think we just need to change the way we look at International Rugby. You're not representing your country, you are representing your union. So CJ Stander is not representing his country, his country is South Africa. He is representing his Union which is the IRFU. Likewise the Vunapola brothers are representing the RFU, and so on.

I dunno. I like cheering for Ireland. I can't imagine getting excited about how the IRFU gets on.

Did they not take the first step down this road with the 'Ireland's Call' abomination?

Surely that's more of an argument in relation to "Ireland" being made up of N. Ireland and ROI.

On the "project players" argument there was a match France played last year (can't remember who it was against) and both teams had Fijian players at 11 and 14 and that stinks. The residency rule is here to stay and with limitations on the number of "foreigners" similar to English soccer of the past, then it could be workable.

[NAG1]

Bundee Aki and Tyler Blyendaal training with Ireland this week.

Still have mixed thoughts on this whole overseas player situation.

It's a farce but it's a farce that everyone is at, from the All Blacks to England.

Yeah thats true. Would a better situation not be making overseas players who wish to play international rugby play for European, Australian & NZ Barbarian sides  rather than becoming 'token' Irish, Welsh or Englishmen?

I think we just need to change the way we look at International Rugby. You're not representing your country, you are representing your union. So CJ Stander is not representing his country, his country is South Africa. He is representing his Union which is the IRFU. Likewise the Vunapola brothers are representing the RFU, and so on.

I dunno. I like cheering for Ireland. I can't imagine getting excited about how the IRFU gets on.

Did they not take the first step down this road with the 'Ireland's Call' abomination?

Surely that's more of an argument in relation to "Ireland" being made up of N. Ireland and ROI.

On the "project players" argument there was a match France played last year (can't remember who it was against) and both teams had Fijian players at 11 and 14 and that stinks. The residency rule is here to stay and with limitations on the number of "foreigners" similar to English soccer of the past, then it could be workable.

Yeah it is TB but it was a move to playing for an IRFU rather than 'Ireland' as was mentioned above, thats all.

[Hardy]

Bundee Aki and Tyler Blyendaal training with Ireland this week.

Still have mixed thoughts on this whole overseas player situation.

It's a farce but it's a farce that everyone is at, from the All Blacks to England.

Yeah thats true. Would a better situation not be making overseas players who wish to play international rugby play for European, Australian & NZ Barbarian sides  rather than becoming 'token' Irish, Welsh or Englishmen?

I think we just need to change the way we look at International Rugby. You're not representing your country, you are representing your union. So CJ Stander is not representing his country, his country is South Africa. He is representing his Union which is the IRFU. Likewise the Vunapola brothers are representing the RFU, and so on.

I dunno. I like cheering for Ireland. I can't imagine getting excited about how the IRFU gets on.

Are you cheering for Ireland when 3 or 4 of the lads are from South Africa, New Zealand or somewhere else?

Yes, because it's called "Ireland". I can get over my reservations, suspend disbelief, etc. But if we're to be invited to consider it an IRFU team, rather than an Ireland team, specifically as a ruse to justify selecting foreigners, that would have the opposite to the intended effect for me.

Having said that, I'm just getting so cynical, fed up and unshockable about professional sport in general that this particular departure from sporting principles is just a grain of sand on the irretrievably polluted beach of pro sport.

[AZOffaly]

My point is that regardless of what you perceive it to be, the fact is it is not made up of Irish players, or even with tenuous links to Ireland a lá the soccer team. It contains players with no links to Ireland whatsoever apart from the fact they made a career decision to play rugby here.

So it is not 'Ireland', it is de facto the 'IRFU representative XV'

*Caveat - Peter O'Mahoney, Sean O'Brien and Donnacha Ryan would pull the head off my shoulders if I said they were not Irish, but you know what I mean.

[Zulu]

Long time since I was particularly bothered about how the Irish soccer team got on and this type of thing is pushing me down the same path with the rugby team. A bit like Hardy, I'm losing a lot of interest in pro sport as it's really more a form of entertainment rather than a team representing an area or country.

Outside of the GAA my other main sporting interest is American football and that's because I enjoy watching it as entertainment. I don't really have a team and will happily jump on a bandwagon. I watch other sports occasionally but outside of GAA, it's really just about seeing a good contest rather than being particularly bothered about the result.

I think it's a real pity international sports representation isn't kept much stricter as it means little enough anymore.

[Syferus]

Couldn't care less who is in the jersey if it gives us a better chance to win.

[trileacman]

I'm with hardy. Harder and harder to give a f**k as pro sports sell out time and again. Drugs, transfer fees, journeymen internationals. All of it erodes the passion and respect you have for the sport be it rugby, soccer, athletics or boxing. They're entertainment now not sport. You'll decide to sit down and watch game of thrones or else watch Ireland play the all-blacks. Many of the governing bodies are happy for it to go down the route of entertainment as opposed to sport as are increasing numbers of sportsmen. More money for them you see.

I have to laugh at people who tell you that something like the lions or international soccer friendlies aren't real sport. Sport as it once existed no longer persists in the modern world except at gaa club level where for the moment it remains intact.

[screenexile]

Good performances from Leinster and Munster but what is happening to Ulster??

Are La Rochelle just that good? Serious drubbing with 15 mins to go!

[Owen Brannigan]

Good performances from Leinster and Munster but what is happening to Ulster??

Are La Rochelle just that good? Serious drubbing with 15 mins to go!

La Rochelle are little known over here but they went through last year's Top 14 unbeaten at home.  They have been like a minor Toulon and brought in players from the Southern hemisphere and built a pack of giants and they have the Year 14 player of the year for last season.

Ulster were able to hold their own and attack consistently for the first quarter and their defence was excellent for the second quarter.  After half time they were subjected to am major onslaught by the La Rochelle pack and couldn't get out of their own 22 for the whole quarter.  They paid the price for constant defence and were worn down unable to respond when La Rochelle ran at them.

The Ulster team went to France knowing they couldn't compete on physicality but brought Trimble and Bowe onto the team to help out in this area.  However, it was a fairly local team with none of the South African's recently acquired leaving a relatively lightweight pack by French standards.

Ulster, as usual, are short of their top players, they are without Payne, Gilroy, Jackson, Deysel, Coetzee missing from any team or squad is not good.

[Owen Brannigan]

Zebo heads to France........

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/simon-zebo-to-join-ronan-ogara-and-donnacha-ryan-at-racing-92-next-season-36253982.html

Should he be treated like Sexton and still play for Ireland?

Will Schmidt enforce his current selection policy, i.e. drop Donnacha Ryan but keep Sexton while in France or will we see a similar rule to WRFU to stop international players moving from the provinces?

[screenexile]

Zebo heads to France........

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/simon-zebo-to-join-ronan-ogara-and-donnacha-ryan-at-racing-92-next-season-36253982.html

Should he be treated like Sexton and still play for Ireland?

Will Schmidt enforce his current selection policy, i.e. drop Donnacha Ryan but keep Sexton while in France or will we see a similar rule to WRFU to stop international players moving from the provinces?

I think we've other options now that losing Zebo shouldn't be a problem. I don't think he'll get the same treatment as Sexton.

[Syferus]

Zebo heads to France........

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/simon-zebo-to-join-ronan-ogara-and-donnacha-ryan-at-racing-92-next-season-36253982.html

Should he be treated like Sexton and still play for Ireland?

Will Schmidt enforce his current selection policy, i.e. drop Donnacha Ryan but keep Sexton while in France or will we see a similar rule to WRFU to stop international players moving from the provinces?

I think we've other options now that losing Zebo shouldn't be a problem. I don't think he'll get the same treatment as Sexton.

Still better than the other options.

[Asal Mor]

I'm with hardy. Harder and harder to give a f**k as pro sports sell out time and again. Drugs, transfer fees, journeymen internationals. All of it erodes the passion and respect you have for the sport be it rugby, soccer, athletics or boxing. They're entertainment now not sport. You'll decide to sit down and watch game of thrones or else watch Ireland play the all-blacks. Many of the governing bodies are happy for it to go down the route of entertainment as opposed to sport as are increasing numbers of sportsmen. More money for them you see.

I have to laugh at people who tell you that something like the lions or international soccer friendlies aren't real sport. Sport as it once existed no longer persists in the modern world except at gaa club level where for the moment it remains intact.

Great post trileacman and I would agree with nearly all of it but I think the inter-county game is still powerful at times. To see the joy it brought to Galway people this year and the devastation to Mayo people as an example. Pro sport rarely brings that level of emotion anymore.

I'd been enjoying getting into the nfl the last few years but when"franchises" start changing cities it kills it for me.

The vast salaries are just disgusting too with the misery of poverty all around us and I think the more sportstars are paid the less victory and defeat really mean to them. Again look at the devastation of the Mayo players in September compared with Conor McGregor plugging his new whisky in his post fight interview.

[Syferus]

I'm with hardy. Harder and harder to give a f**k as pro sports sell out time and again. Drugs, transfer fees, journeymen internationals. All of it erodes the passion and respect you have for the sport be it rugby, soccer, athletics or boxing. They're entertainment now not sport. You'll decide to sit down and watch game of thrones or else watch Ireland play the all-blacks. Many of the governing bodies are happy for it to go down the route of entertainment as opposed to sport as are increasing numbers of sportsmen. More money for them you see.

I have to laugh at people who tell you that something like the lions or international soccer friendlies aren't real sport. Sport as it once existed no longer persists in the modern world except at gaa club level where for the moment it remains intact.

Great post trileacman and I would agree with nearly all of it but I think the inter-county game is still powerful at times. To see the joy it brought to Galway people this year and the devastation to Mayo people as an example. Pro sport rarely brings that level of emotion anymore.

I'd been enjoying getting into the nfl the last few years but when"franchises" start changing cities it kills it for me.

The vast salaries are just disgusting too with the misery of poverty all around us and I think the more sportstars are paid the less victory and defeat really mean to them. Again look at the devastation of the Mayo players in September compared with Conor McGregor plugging his new whisky in his post fight interview.

I was a whole lot more invested in the Irish team in Wales going for the Grand Slam and trying to survive in the World Cup two weeks ago than I was Galway or Mayo winning or losing. Rugby players by and large aren't getting 'vast salaries' either. If you have ten years experience in my industry you'd outstrip all but the elite of the elite rugby players in salary and you can do that for 40 instead of 5-10 years without fûcking your body up in the process. And it's far from the only field where that's the case.