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Messages - Syferus

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1
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: Today at 02:31:33 PM »
One of the most vexing things for me re Mickey Harte's group is that they obviously put a lot of thought into how they could maximise the perception that this was a 'GAA' group, without actually being in technical breach of any rules (that I can see at least).
The name, the location for the launch, the deliberate blurring of the lines between their position and the strategic vision of the association etc.
It's incredibly cynical stuff.

I think you have to try and put yourself in Mickey Harte's shoes here to try and understand his thought processes. My sense would be that Mickey, as a devout Catholic, will regard the legalization of abortion as tantamount to allowing the murder of the innocents. In such circumstances, he will use whatever influence he has to try and affect that decision. In that context, his concern for the issue around the blurring of the lines regarding the use of the GAA's name will carry zero weight.

By the way, I wonder will those 'Gaels' on here, who decry Mickey's intervention, on the basis of him coming from a different jurisdiction, consider their membership of the GAA on the basis that it has as its basic aim "the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes"?

Their position flies in the face of the spirit of that aim.

Harte coming from outside the 26 counties has nothing to do with anything, so let's put that one to bed. We've had a president from Belfast, and Martin McGuinness and Dana ran last time.

There's a glaring inconsistency that the No side never answer. If they believe that abortion truly does constitute "murder", why can't any of them answer whether they think women who have abortions are committing murder, and should be locked up in prison for such?

Presuming the No campaigners think all murders should be punishable by imprisonment, like.

Between 1980 and 2016, 170,000 Irish women travelled abroad to have abortions.

Are these 170,000 women therefore "murderers"?






I think that's an assumption on your behalf.

Itís a talking point regularly used by the No side Tubberman. Whether theyíve spent enough time thinking about what it means and taken the idea to its logical conclusion is another matter.

Is it? I haven't heard the word 'murder' used in any debate so far, although I try to avoid a lot of them as it feels like it's the same thing being rehashed over and over again.

I will more than likely vote No, but it's not because I consider abortion to be murder.
For the record, I support the option of abortion for fatal foetal abnormalities, rape, incest.
My main problem is that if the 8th amendment is repealed, then any govt could allow abortion up to any gestational period without any public say in the matter. That's a principle I'd be very uncomfortable with.

Unless youíre exclusively talking about PG-rated TV debates youíll hear it very very regularly. Thereís plenty of off-colour stuff on both sides. The implication of treating an embryonic fetus as a full human means by its definition abortion becomes murder so itís an ever present part of the No side argument.

2
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: Today at 02:19:58 PM »
One of the most vexing things for me re Mickey Harte's group is that they obviously put a lot of thought into how they could maximise the perception that this was a 'GAA' group, without actually being in technical breach of any rules (that I can see at least).
The name, the location for the launch, the deliberate blurring of the lines between their position and the strategic vision of the association etc.
It's incredibly cynical stuff.

I think you have to try and put yourself in Mickey Harte's shoes here to try and understand his thought processes. My sense would be that Mickey, as a devout Catholic, will regard the legalization of abortion as tantamount to allowing the murder of the innocents. In such circumstances, he will use whatever influence he has to try and affect that decision. In that context, his concern for the issue around the blurring of the lines regarding the use of the GAA's name will carry zero weight.

By the way, I wonder will those 'Gaels' on here, who decry Mickey's intervention, on the basis of him coming from a different jurisdiction, consider their membership of the GAA on the basis that it has as its basic aim "the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes"?

Their position flies in the face of the spirit of that aim.

Harte coming from outside the 26 counties has nothing to do with anything, so let's put that one to bed. We've had a president from Belfast, and Martin McGuinness and Dana ran last time.

There's a glaring inconsistency that the No side never answer. If they believe that abortion truly does constitute "murder", why can't any of them answer whether they think women who have abortions are committing murder, and should be locked up in prison for such?

Presuming the No campaigners think all murders should be punishable by imprisonment, like.

Between 1980 and 2016, 170,000 Irish women travelled abroad to have abortions.

Are these 170,000 women therefore "murderers"?






I think that's an assumption on your behalf.

Itís a talking point regularly used by the No side Tubberman. Whether theyíve spent enough time thinking about what it means and taken the idea to its logical conclusion is another matter.

3
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: Today at 01:31:07 AM »
I think it should be remembered that when the votes are cast and the controversy dies down, there will be little if any change to the current state of affairs.
Women who want abortions can still travel openly to Britain or any other country where abortion is legal or else abortion pills may be ordered by post.
We will still have an Irish solution to an Irish problem as Charlie Haughey might put it.

This is not a solution, women taking dodgy pills without medical supervision, women getting procedures with no aftercare. Women not being in a position to travel and essentially being forced to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.

This is not an Irish solution to an Irish problem. That's a damaging phrase that suggests that the current status quo is any sort of 'solution'.

Mickey Harte seems to have more compassion for lads accused of sexual assault and murder than he does for vulnerable young women.

He's a dinosaur, needs to take his hard line catholic shite and get it away from anything related to the GAA.

I think you may have taken Lar up the wrong way.
I'm afraid he has. I guess SYF is too young to remember what Charlie said and the context in which he said it.
I was being sarcastic when I paraphrased him.
 
But at least he is back on speaking terms again so we must be grateful for small mercies.  :D :D

Christ. Donít pretend like your first two lines were sarcasm just because you got savaged for not thinking about the implications of aftercare or the other problems caused by palming off our societal blind spots on other countries. Own up to your mistake and move on.

4
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 11:56:08 PM »
A bit uneducated here on this matter. Will removing the 8th lead to abortion on demand or just in cases for the likes of rape, abnormalities etc.?

'Abortion on demand' is a very loaded No side term, so I'd be careful phrasing it as such if you don't want to give the wrong impression.

Repealing the 8th will mean a new law that allows abortions up to 12 weeks will be ratified by the Dail. This is entirely to be the woman's choice, as it should be. Anything else would just lead to women and doctors fudging the law to use the loopholes to get an abortion so if we are going to repeal the 8th we have to install something that legislates for the actual reality and not some idealised version where situational limits on abortion actually work.

5
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 11:29:54 PM »
I think it should be remembered that when the votes are cast and the controversy dies down, there will be little if any change to the current state of affairs.
Women who want abortions can still travel openly to Britain or any other country where abortion is legal or else abortion pills may be ordered by post.
We will still have an Irish solution to an Irish problem as Charlie Haughey might put it.

This is not a solution, women taking dodgy pills without medical supervision, women getting procedures with no aftercare. Women not being in a position to travel and essentially being forced to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.

This is not an Irish solution to an Irish problem. That's a damaging phrase that suggests that the current status quo is any sort of 'solution'.

Mickey Harte seems to have more compassion for lads accused of sexual assault and murder than he does for vulnerable young women.

He's a dinosaur, needs to take his hard line catholic shite and get it away from anything related to the GAA.

I think you may have taken Lar up the wrong way.

And I think you may have taken up the implications of what he said the wrong way to say that, Jinxy.

6
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 11:27:25 PM »
I think it should be remembered that when the votes are cast and the controversy dies down, there will be little if any change to the current state of affairs.
Women who want abortions can still travel openly to Britain or any other country where abortion is legal or else abortion pills may be ordered by post.
We will still have an Irish solution to an Irish problem as Charlie Haughey might put it.

This is not a solution, women taking dodgy pills without medical supervision, women getting procedures with no aftercare. Women not being in a position to travel and essentially being forced to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.

This is not an Irish solution to an Irish problem. That's a damaging phrase that suggests that the current status quo is any sort of 'solution'.

Mickey Harte seems to have more compassion for lads accused of sexual assault and murder than he does for vulnerable young women.

He's a dinosaur, needs to take his hard line catholic shite and get it away from anything related to the GAA.

+10000

Lar, you've shown yourself up big time again.

7
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 10:19:24 PM »
No vote is going to win this election. They look much better organised on the ground. Every where I go I see no posters, nothing from the yes side or the major parties.

The people who will vote Yes don't get their news from papers or direction from political parties. The Yes side is by and large younger and far more tech savvy so trying to judge it on posters is ludicrous. There's a massive campaign to crowdfund tickets for exiles to return to vote Yes. The Yes side have been mobilised for this moment for at least a decade at this stage. It will not be a contest.

I dont think yes Is as engaged as the gay marriage campaign was by a long shot

They are waaaay more engaged. There have been regular big rallies to repeal the 8th for years now. They have been mobilised for this moment for a very long time.

This is a much more heated debate than gay marriage - this one directly effects 50% of the population and indirectly effects the other half, so you can expect overall turnout to be up and that's very bad news for the No side.

8
General discussion / Re: Official Gooners Thread aka Dťjŗ vu
« on: April 22, 2018, 10:04:34 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/22/arsene-wenger-arsenal-hurtful-supporters

Pure class. I don't think there is a better man managing at the top level.

9
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 09:01:42 PM »
No vote is going to win this election. They look much better organised on the ground. Every where I go I see no posters, nothing from the yes side or the major parties.

The people who will vote Yes don't get their news from papers or direction from political parties. The Yes side is by and large younger and far more tech savvy so trying to judge it on posters is ludicrous. There's a massive campaign to crowdfund tickets for exiles to return to vote Yes. The Yes side have been mobilised for this moment for at least a decade at this stage. It will not be a contest.

And when you make a stupid prediction you can be sure it will be wrong as usual

Arenít you the fella who thought the evil Brits were setting up the Russians on the nerve agent assassination?

:-[

10
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 08:05:55 PM »
No vote is going to win this election. They look much better organised on the ground. Every where I go I see no posters, nothing from the yes side or the major parties.

The people who will vote Yes don't get their news from papers or direction from political parties. The Yes side is by and large younger and far more tech savvy so trying to judge it on posters is ludicrous. There's a massive campaign to crowdfund tickets for exiles to return to vote Yes. The Yes side have been mobilised for this moment for at least a decade at this stage. It will not be a contest.

11
More interesting is how poor Walshís stats were. Heís never really became the player he was hyped to be.

12
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 04:33:18 PM »
If you believe in aborting people then you are hardly likely to refrain from playing the man if he is in your way.

What a pathetic description of the pro-choice side.

13
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 02:36:12 PM »
The thing is I can't really see any point in the whole thing.

Are there really all that many people whose vote is going to be affected by this one way or the other?

Using the GAA IP haphazzardly can seriously damage the sport.

14
GAA Discussion / Re: 'GAA Athletes for a No Vote'
« on: April 22, 2018, 04:30:04 AM »
Sure wasnt Enda and a gang over in Ruislip at the Mayo game campaigning against Brexit outside the stadium.

And the (hammered) Mayo fan was interviewed afterwards by RTE complaining about all the foreigners coming in taking the jobs.

Mickey Harte is entitled to his opinion. He is recognized and respected North and South, but why in Gods name (if he/she exists) would anyone cast their vote based on what the manager of a football team has to say on the matter.

Iíll correct myself. Youíre the real king of the bad take.

15
GAA Discussion / Re: We need to talk about Diarmuid
« on: April 22, 2018, 03:06:47 AM »
Time to lock this thread Mods.
It's going beyond the bounds.

Itís on the threshold alright, and I agree.

Heís literally AWOL at the moment. I think you have a different idea of the end of a story than the rest of us.

I have no idea about the end of the story, I just hope that an amateur multiple All Ireland winner, who owes nobody anything, can do what he wants to do, either way.

Iíd still recommend locking the thread

Someone would create another whenever we inevitably find out in a few weeks that heís retired/is back on the panel/is playing hurling, so what exactly is the point in that? Rossfan has made a cliche of calling for threads he decides he doesnít like to be locked but I didnít think others operated from his playbook too.

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