Has the intercounty system in football told us all it’s ever going to tell us?

[6th sam]

Now if you wanted to keep a regular programme of club championship games over a number of months - and keep the inter-county championships where they need to be in the calendar - finishing in September - ie. not completely separate the club and county seasons - this is probably how you'd do it

You provide seven designated club championship matchdays each for hurling and football from April to October - you stop all inter-county action on these matchdays and you introduce a rule centrally that county boards have to hold club championship action on these matchdays

Seven designated matchdays is ample time to finish a club hurling or football championship by October 17th, even if your county team reaches an All-Ireland final

All non-round robin games bar the All-Ireland finals go to extra-time and penalties if necessary

2021

Jan 31 NFL 1
Feb 7 NFL 2/NHL 1
Feb 14 NFL 3/NHL 2
Feb 21 NHL 3
Feb 28 NFL 4
Mar 7 NFL 5/NHL 4
Mar 14 NFL 6/NHL 5
Mar 21 NFL 7/NHL 6
Mar 28 NHL 7
Apr 4 NFL FINAL
Apr 11 NHL FINAL
Apr 18 Club Football Matchday 1
Apr 25 Club Hurling Matchday 1
May 2 Club Football Matchday 2
May 9 Club Hurling Matchday 2
May 16 Football Provincial Prelims
May 23 Hurling Provincial 1/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
May 30 Hurling Provincial 2/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
Jun 6 Club Football Matchday 3
Jun 9 (Midweek) Club Hurling Matchday 3
Jun 13 Club Football Matchday 4
Jun 20 Hurling Provincial 3/Football Provincial Semi-Finals/Football Qualifiers 1
Jun 27 Hurling Provincial 4/Football Provincial Semi-Finals
Jul 4 Hurling Provincial 5
Jul 11 Football Provincial Finals/Football Qualifiers 2
Jul 18 Hurling Provincial Finals/Football Provincial Finals/ Football Qualifiers 3
Jul 25 Club Hurling Matchday 4
Jul 28 (Midweek) Club Football Matchday 5
August 1 Club Hurling Matchday 5
August 8 All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Finals /Football Qualifiers 4
August 15 All-Ireland Football Quarter-Finals
August 22 All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
August 29 All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals
September 5 All-Ireland Hurling Final (replay September 18)
September 12 All-Ireland Football Final (replay September 19)
September 26 Club Hurling Matchday 6
October 3 Club Football Matchday 6
October 10 Club Hurling Matchday 7
October 17 Club Football Matchday 7
October 24 Provincial Club Prelims
October 31 Provincial Club Q/F or S/F
November 7 Provincial Club Q/F OR S/F
November 14 Provincial Club Finals or S/F
November 21 Provincial Club Finals
December 5 All-Ireland Club Semi-Finals
December 19 All-Ireland Club Finals

Is this a serious post?
Have u any knowledge of the demands on county footballers and managers? Do you honestly think it is going to work by disrupting an AI campaign with club fixtures. The whole thrust of the split season is to protect players who currently are expected to endure a year of misery with little chance of success. It may seem OK for Dublin players who are heavily rewarded by the system and their multiple perks .

The narrative shifts yet again

First it was "we want games", "we want certainty"

Now it seems that's not the case at all

It's mad, people are saying the county managers have too much power - now they don't have enough power?

Players manage to play for different teams in other sports just fine - heard of international windows in soocer? Which involve far more travel than lining out for your club a few times during the summer

As regards "protecting players", let's take a successful county player in Ulster whose county ends up in the prelim of the Ulster championship, let's say they go all the way to the All-Ireland

Under the above plan he'll have matches on
April 18th (club)
May 2nd (club)
May 16th (county)
May 30 (county)
June 6th (club)
June 13th (club)
June 27th (county)
July 11th or 18th (county)
July 28th (club)
August 15th (county)
August 29th (county)
September 12th (county)

Let's say his club reaches the All-Ireland club final
He might be out again on October 3rd
Then October 17th
November 1st
November 8th
November 22nd
December 5th
December 19th

It sounds pretty reasonable to me

Yet it seems no plan other than the hare brained idea to shoehorn the most important competitions the GAA has into spring and early summer is good enough for some

Bizarre stuff

the system you propose means that a Tyrone player getting to an All Ireland final is released for a couple of club championship games in the summer, and then he risks injury by going into a different environment with variable injury risks. He and his club mates just have to "suck it up". This is an amateur sport ( some counties more amateur than others tbf) . This might make sense to a Dublin or Kerry player who regulArly gets to Croke park, as a schoolteacher or gets a career leg up or other perks through his Intercounty involvement , but it doesn't make sense for 90%+ of county players.
All this for an elongated AI series
There must be a more level playing field to ensure club and county thrive and this season has shown they can thrive in a split season

I have no idea what your reference to Dublin or Kerry players here is - under the above plan players in all county teams wpould play club championship on the same designated dates

Have a look at the fixture schedule I set out

It's very reasonable - players want to play, don't they?

It sounds like you're proposing to wrap players in cotton wool for the county team

I thought this was what we didn't want?

I don't want to be disrespectful by spelling this out in simple terms but I will.
Dublin and Kerry have dominated football, due partly to a success breeds success phenomenon and partly due to unfair advantages of the current system. Dublin and Kerry players appear to avail of perks not available in most other counties eg cars, career leg-ups , etc .
It is much more attractive to play for Dublin where sacrifices are balanced by perks.
If a county player has to juggle county ,club , career , family , all at the same time it can be a miserable existence with little return. If they only have to play county football for a compact period of time, they can give it their all with no club distractions, and when finished they can enjoy leAding their club mates on their return from the county season .
That is as simple as I can make it.
The current system is broken.
The new system is backed by club players county players and Will significantly  reduce costs and increase income through a revitalised county and club  game.
All pointers indicate this will be a success but we can't be definite. What we can be definite about is that the current system is unsustainable and must change dramatically for player welfare reasons alone( if you think that means wrapping players in cotton wool, then you don't understand county players imho)

[6th sam]

AI is an easily marketable product regardless of the time of year.

April to June is perhaps the worst possible time to market All-Ireland championships

The soccer season is coming to an end, Champions League, Premier League etc., Heineken Cup in rugby,

And World Cups and Euros every second year, which obliterate everything else

It's a very crowded time of year

I remember in '94, Dublin played Kildare, a fixture which had drawn over 60k the previous two years, it was on the same day as Ireland v Italy, it drew 22k, the replay drew around the same

Tradition dies hard

The October NBA finals, with the Lakers and LeBron, were the lowest rated in many years this year

The November US Masters didn't work at all in my view

There's even something off about August All-Irelands, never mind June

September is the time for All-Irelands, October would be better than August

It's the worst time to market?? There have been championship games for years in May/June, they'd be even easier to market if there are games week on week. Again this year showed the benefit of that. For the county player it's a case of enjoy sole focus on the county game, then back to help your local mates, when county season on , fringe club players get a chance to fight for their place when full deck are back. What's not to like?

May/June games are early season games, they're at the start of the summer

Remember Armagh v Down 2011? It clashed with the Champions League final between Barcelona and Manchester United

You don't market against that, you simply get crushed

Even Derry v Down 1994 lost a lot of exposure because it was on the same day as Germany v Ireland when Ireland won 2-0

What you're now proposing is that early season championship games take place in March or early April

And that's an even harder sell because the weather is not as good and key late season soccer matches also tend to take place on those Sundays

It's also better for the clubs to have their players play when they're fresh - before the inter-county championship - as well as giving club players a genuine chance to stake a place for the county team

Look at Ballymun this year - what was the difference? Freshness of key players - McCarthy, Small, Rock, McMahon, who in previous seasons have not performed in the Dublin championship because they were jaded after the county season

😂😂 I didn't even know Ireland played Germany that day. perhaps the US masters was on the same day for all I know. I seem to remember Derry's  Celtic Park was a full house anyway 😂. Perhaps we wouldn't have filled Croke Park that day but Tbf even the mighty Dubs can't even half fill Croke park anymore despite the current exposure ( and advantages) they enjoy, and which you propose to continue.
Since you brought up Down, here's a stat for you to consider, since Down beat Dublin in the 1994 AI final, Down have enjoyed home venue for Championship including qualifiers on , I'm guessing , 15 occasions , whilst the Dubs have never had a championship game in their home venue, instead they've had to navigate their way to the national stadium on , I'm guessing over 200  Occasions . I respect Dublin players and management for what they e achieved, but they'll never get the credit they deserve because of the advantages they enjoy under their current system. NFL/NBA have the draft system and even FIFA have financial restrictions, To try to get as level a playing field as possible, yet in the GAA we continue to give Dublin a leg up , whilst lowering the bar at the same time. You couldn't make it up🤦🏻‍♂️

No Dublin supporter objects to Dublin being taken out of Croke Park, or to away championship venues - Dublin supporters would only love that - going on the road to support your team is what it's all about

Take it up with the Leinster council, which is made up by the rest of Leinster

Nor do Dublin supporters object to other counties getting their houses in order or them being given a leg up in order to do so

The plans to revitalise GAA in Dublin in the 2000s were mainly about participation

Which is a very good thing

The more participation, the healthier all levels of the GAA become

Totally agree with all the above Dublin are merely availing of the unfair advantages the GAA promotes

Representative sport is inherently unfair, we've been over this a million times

The only way to solve that is that is to reorganise the county system into franchises based on equitable populations

But I don't think anybody wants that

Because, as you yourself referenced earlier, identity is king - a GAA version of the Ospreys would not work

No but as you have pointed out participation is key, and splitting Dublin into North side and south side would sort out the identity goal😜

[thewobbler]

So in summary.

What we have in Sid is an exclusively county GAA follower.

It's probably unfair to suggest this this is the norm for a Dublin resident. Yet when I think of club semifinal and final coverage from Parnell Park, it does seem that in this county, a million chimney pots still isn't enough to fill one stand for a club decider.

So while the crux of his GAA allegiances might not be the norm, they're probably not that far off the mark.

And the fundamental thing that divides this train of thought, with that which dominates allegiances in the vast majority of counties, is how the Association's health is measured.

Sid and his ilk measure it by how often Croke Park is filled to the hilt. "Sure there was almost 80k there for the Leinster final". This kind of thing provides him with the opportunity to savour a sold out event atmosphere in a world class stadium. There's only a handful of these a year in Ireland.

The rest of us though, we measure GAA success by participation; the number of people taking an active involvement in their GAA club.

——

Sid while you're entitled to has this take on the GAA, please don't try to force it upon members of the association from the 30-31 counties who don't have the same outlook on GAA.

Dublin have tried their best to ruin the county championship through back door professionalism. It would be a nice touch if you didn't ruin club football too, in your quest for the GAA world to stand back and bow to your absolute domination.

(Btw a demand to uphold traditions like "3rd summer in September" is an absolute affront from someone who considers the GAA a product)

[sid waddell]

Now if you wanted to keep a regular programme of club championship games over a number of months - and keep the inter-county championships where they need to be in the calendar - finishing in September - ie. not completely separate the club and county seasons - this is probably how you'd do it

You provide seven designated club championship matchdays each for hurling and football from April to October - you stop all inter-county action on these matchdays and you introduce a rule centrally that county boards have to hold club championship action on these matchdays

Seven designated matchdays is ample time to finish a club hurling or football championship by October 17th, even if your county team reaches an All-Ireland final

All non-round robin games bar the All-Ireland finals go to extra-time and penalties if necessary

2021

Jan 31 NFL 1
Feb 7 NFL 2/NHL 1
Feb 14 NFL 3/NHL 2
Feb 21 NHL 3
Feb 28 NFL 4
Mar 7 NFL 5/NHL 4
Mar 14 NFL 6/NHL 5
Mar 21 NFL 7/NHL 6
Mar 28 NHL 7
Apr 4 NFL FINAL
Apr 11 NHL FINAL
Apr 18 Club Football Matchday 1
Apr 25 Club Hurling Matchday 1
May 2 Club Football Matchday 2
May 9 Club Hurling Matchday 2
May 16 Football Provincial Prelims
May 23 Hurling Provincial 1/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
May 30 Hurling Provincial 2/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
Jun 6 Club Football Matchday 3
Jun 9 (Midweek) Club Hurling Matchday 3
Jun 13 Club Football Matchday 4
Jun 20 Hurling Provincial 3/Football Provincial Semi-Finals/Football Qualifiers 1
Jun 27 Hurling Provincial 4/Football Provincial Semi-Finals
Jul 4 Hurling Provincial 5
Jul 11 Football Provincial Finals/Football Qualifiers 2
Jul 18 Hurling Provincial Finals/Football Provincial Finals/ Football Qualifiers 3
Jul 25 Club Hurling Matchday 4
Jul 28 (Midweek) Club Football Matchday 5
August 1 Club Hurling Matchday 5
August 8 All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Finals /Football Qualifiers 4
August 15 All-Ireland Football Quarter-Finals
August 22 All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
August 29 All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals
September 5 All-Ireland Hurling Final (replay September 18)
September 12 All-Ireland Football Final (replay September 19)
September 26 Club Hurling Matchday 6
October 3 Club Football Matchday 6
October 10 Club Hurling Matchday 7
October 17 Club Football Matchday 7
October 24 Provincial Club Prelims
October 31 Provincial Club Q/F or S/F
November 7 Provincial Club Q/F OR S/F
November 14 Provincial Club Finals or S/F
November 21 Provincial Club Finals
December 5 All-Ireland Club Semi-Finals
December 19 All-Ireland Club Finals

Is this a serious post?
Have u any knowledge of the demands on county footballers and managers? Do you honestly think it is going to work by disrupting an AI campaign with club fixtures. The whole thrust of the split season is to protect players who currently are expected to endure a year of misery with little chance of success. It may seem OK for Dublin players who are heavily rewarded by the system and their multiple perks .

The narrative shifts yet again

First it was "we want games", "we want certainty"

Now it seems that's not the case at all

It's mad, people are saying the county managers have too much power - now they don't have enough power?

Players manage to play for different teams in other sports just fine - heard of international windows in soocer? Which involve far more travel than lining out for your club a few times during the summer

As regards "protecting players", let's take a successful county player in Ulster whose county ends up in the prelim of the Ulster championship, let's say they go all the way to the All-Ireland

Under the above plan he'll have matches on
April 18th (club)
May 2nd (club)
May 16th (county)
May 30 (county)
June 6th (club)
June 13th (club)
June 27th (county)
July 11th or 18th (county)
July 28th (club)
August 15th (county)
August 29th (county)
September 12th (county)

Let's say his club reaches the All-Ireland club final
He might be out again on October 3rd
Then October 17th
November 1st
November 8th
November 22nd
December 5th
December 19th

It sounds pretty reasonable to me

Yet it seems no plan other than the hare brained idea to shoehorn the most important competitions the GAA has into spring and early summer is good enough for some

Bizarre stuff

the system you propose means that a Tyrone player getting to an All Ireland final is released for a couple of club championship games in the summer, and then he risks injury by going into a different environment with variable injury risks. He and his club mates just have to "suck it up". This is an amateur sport ( some counties more amateur than others tbf) . This might make sense to a Dublin or Kerry player who regulArly gets to Croke park, as a schoolteacher or gets a career leg up or other perks through his Intercounty involvement , but it doesn't make sense for 90%+ of county players.
All this for an elongated AI series
There must be a more level playing field to ensure club and county thrive and this season has shown they can thrive in a split season

I have no idea what your reference to Dublin or Kerry players here is - under the above plan players in all county teams wpould play club championship on the same designated dates

Have a look at the fixture schedule I set out

It's very reasonable - players want to play, don't they?

It sounds like you're proposing to wrap players in cotton wool for the county team

I thought this was what we didn't want?

I don't want to be disrespectful by spelling this out in simple terms but I will.
Dublin and Kerry have dominated football, due partly to a success breeds success phenomenon and partly due to unfair advantages of the current system. Dublin and Kerry players appear to avail of perks not available in most other counties eg cars, career leg-ups , etc .
It is much more attractive to play for Dublin where sacrifices are balanced by perks.
If a county player has to juggle county ,club , career , family , all at the same time it can be a miserable existence with little return. If they only have to play county football for a compact period of time, they can give it their all with no club distractions, and when finished they can enjoy leAding their club mates on their return from the county season .
That is as simple as I can make it.
The current system is broken.
The new system is backed by club players county players and Will significantly  reduce costs and increase income through a revitalised county and club  game.
All pointers indicate this will be a success but we can't be definite. What we can be definite about is that the current system is unsustainable and must change dramatically for player welfare reasons alone( if you think that means wrapping players in cotton wool, then you don't understand county players imho)

That's just rhetoric

The onus is on other counties to sort themselves out - not on Dublin and Kerry to sort it out for them

Playing a few club matches during championship is no more of an injury risk than training or the Discover Ireland tour of challenge matches

The problem with the narrative you and Wobbler are pushing is that's it's pure simplism

It pays no heed to complex problems, it pays no heed to unintended consequences, it pays no heed to real world problems - which is ironic, given that Wobbler has styled himself as Mr. Real World

But like the hacks at Spiked Online and The Spectator, he's the complete opposite

[sid waddell]

So in summary.

What we have in Sid is an exclusively county GAA follower.

It's probably unfair to suggest this this is the norm for a Dublin resident. Yet when I think of club semifinal and final coverage from Parnell Park, it does seem that in this county, a million chimney pots still isn't enough to fill one stand for a club decider.

So while the crux of his GAA allegiances might not be the norm, they're probably not that far off the mark.

And the fundamental thing that divides this train of thought, with that which dominates allegiances in the vast majority of counties, is how the Association's health is measured.

Sid and his ilk measure it by how often Croke Park is filled to the hilt. "Sure there was almost 80k there for the Leinster final". This kind of thing provides him with the opportunity to savour a sold out event atmosphere in a world class stadium. There's only a handful of these a year in Ireland.

The rest of us though, we measure GAA success by participation; the number of people taking an active involvement in their GAA club.

——

Sid while you're entitled to has this take on the GAA, please don't try to force it upon members of the association from the 30-31 counties who don't have the same outlook on GAA.

Dublin have tried their best to ruin the county championship through back door professionalism. It would be a nice touch if you didn't ruin club football too, in your quest for the GAA world to stand back and bow to your absolute domination.

(Btw a demand to uphold traditions like "3rd summer in September" is an absolute affront from someone who considers the GAA a product)

So in summary of your position: a child like whinge, with no solutions, no ideas, and no effort to debate proposed solutions in good faith

A summing up of your entire forum output, really

I do love the way you're now trying to hop on the participation bandwagon when it was myself who correctly said that participation is the most important measure of how successful the GAA is

Whereas you were unable to see outside the narrow focus of senior club - and you ridiculed the idea of participation

The biggest irony is that your whole mindset, as you verbalised a page or two back, is the biggest danger to clubs up and down the country, the True Gael™ idea that clubs should be nothing more than senior teams and local faction fights

This is anti-participation

It's this attitude that turns so many people off the GAA in the first place

Unfortunately your mindset is far too narrow to understand that there is not one problem here, nor one solution

There are many problems, they are interlinked and they are complex, with no perfect solution

What happens at the top influences what happens at the bottom, and vice versa

You simply don't understand that, so you dismiss what is too complex for you - and introduce false complexity where it is not warranted

[thewobbler]

Sid.

That synopsis of my personality.

You don't actually read what's posted. Do you? I mean it's surely not possible to gauge that summary of me from this thread. Come on, it's not. You've made up a new character completely. Let's call him Wobblerer or something like that.

By the way, good job on finally getting the Spectator and Spiked Online into this thread in your second last post. I wasn't quite sure how you'd destroy this thread with inane and utterly predictable political drivel, but it looks like the process is underway. Clap, clap.

[sid waddell]

Sid.

That synopsis of my personality.

You don't actually read what's posted. Do you? I mean it's surely not possible to gauge that summary of me from this thread. Come on, it's not. You've made up a new character completely. Let's call him Wobblerer or something like that.

By the way, good job on finally getting the Spectator and Spiked Online into this thread in your second last post. I wasn't quite sure how you'd destroy this thread with inane and utterly predictable political drivel, but it looks like the process is underway. Clap, clap.

Project, project

You get fierce annoyed when when somebody sees your views for what they are - gobshitery

You're very like Angelo and Seaney in that regard

All you're short of is a "do your own research"

[trileacman]

You're the absolute ruination of this board sid. An insufferable ****.

[Hound]

So in summary.

What we have in Sid is an exclusively county GAA follower.

It's probably unfair to suggest this this is the norm for a Dublin resident. Yet when I think of club semifinal and final coverage from Parnell Park, it does seem that in this county, a million chimney pots still isn't enough to fill one stand for a club decider.

So while the crux of his GAA allegiances might not be the norm, they're probably not that far off the mark.

And the fundamental thing that divides this train of thought, with that which dominates allegiances in the vast majority of counties, is how the Association's health is measured.

Sid and his ilk measure it by how often Croke Park is filled to the hilt. "Sure there was almost 80k there for the Leinster final". This kind of thing provides him with the opportunity to savour a sold out event atmosphere in a world class stadium. There's only a handful of these a year in Ireland.

The rest of us though, we measure GAA success by participation; the number of people taking an active involvement in their GAA club.

——

Sid while you're entitled to has this take on the GAA, please don't try to force it upon members of the association from the 30-31 counties who don't have the same outlook on GAA.

Dublin have tried their best to ruin the county championship through back door professionalism. It would be a nice touch if you didn't ruin club football too, in your quest for the GAA world to stand back and bow to your absolute domination.

(Btw a demand to uphold traditions like "3rd summer in September" is an absolute affront from someone who considers the GAA a product)

Good man wobbler. Really letting Sid get under your skin so you abandon reason in your fixtures debate and instead revert to a Dub-bashing rant, full of a mix of nonsense and untruths.

[thewobbler]

Hound you're right. I got deviated and unnecessary there.

But at the same time, what Sid has basically arrived at is that there is almost nothing wrong with the current fixtures schedule, and if there's anything wrong at all it's that the pesky club championships aren't wrapped up earlier.

Of course he's an arch contrarian to commonsense, which is the primary reason for this. But i do sense that it's a sentiment that would be shared with many a Dublin fan. But with nobody from another county.

[Rossfan]

Decision on 2021 deferred

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1129/1181173-gaa-presses-pause-on-2021-calendar-decision/

[sid waddell]

You're the absolute ruination of this board sid. An insufferable ****.

Ah right

I discuss the topic in good faith, putting forward two actual thought plans and, uniquely for contributors to the topic, dealing with it in a holistic manner

You chip with a one line post calling me a ****

And you say I'm the problem with this forum?

[sid waddell]

Hound you're right. I got deviated and unnecessary there.

But at the same time, what Sid has basically arrived at is that there is almost nothing wrong with the current fixtures schedule, and if there's anything wrong at all it's that the pesky club championships aren't wrapped up earlier.

Of course he's an arch contrarian to commonsense, which is the primary reason for this. But i do sense that it's a sentiment that would be shared with many a Dublin fan. But with nobody from another county.

So by your own criteria of debate, the inter-county championships are "pesky"

Sure, in that case, why are you not proposing abandoning them, so? Given that it's so clearly what you want?

Only one of has put forward actual thought out plans - in fact I've put forward two

Real common sense is examining different angles, and trying to come to the best solution for everybody

Only one of us has done that - and it isn't you, given that you can only think through the narrow focus of senior club - and senior club championship at that - which, again, and it is startling that this has to be explained to you - does very much not make up 98% of GAA fixtures

[thewobbler]

Here's some numbers Sid. Please digest. Don't interpret. Just digest.

We will concentrate on football for now.

This isn't to ignore hurling. But as there are many more football teams than hurling teams, then it's fair to say that any fixture scheduling that can solve a problem for football, will likely do same for hurling.

——

SENIOR COUNTY

In its fullest form, with:

- Round robin pre season provincials.

- Kilkenny and London competing in the leagues.

- Those 2 plus NY in the championship,

- A full back door system.

- The super 8s.

The maximum number of competitive fixtures in a county football season are:

Pre-season Provincials (including semis and finals): 60
National League (including semi and finals): 128
Provincials: 30
Qualifiers: 26
Super 8s: 12
AI Semis and Final: 3

Final total: 259 games.

That though is for the entire season. And It's not overly relevant to the discussion apart from to help you digest the 98% figure a little better.

The figure that actually does matter is this one.

There is an outright maximum need for 17 fixtures in one round of any competition involving county teams.

——

98%

Allow me to continue my condescending lesson for a moment before returning to the purpose of this post.

Down is around a middle of the road county in terms of size, population, and number of clubs. Every year in senior adult football alone, the county hosts:

372 league matches (divisions 1-4)
12-18 league playoff matches (depending on agreed format)
70-75 championship matches between SFC, IFC and JFC (JFC structure changes more often)

That's over 450 games, before allowing for the myriad of pre-season tournaments equally as valued as the McKenna Cup.

So In one medium sized county, almost twice as many football fixtures take place, as in the entire county football programme.

——

SENIOR CLUB

Now let's just clarify two things here. You can rebuke them if you like, but then you really would be heading off on a tangent that doesn't exist.

1. The reason why split seasons are being introduced, is because players don't wish to be pulled in two directions by club and county.

2. When not playing county ball, those  players can be found lining out at junior, intermediate and senior club levels.

The reason why I'm reiterating these points is because any proposed schedule then has to include two underlying principles.

1. Regardless of if it's one split season, or a series of split seasons, each must have room to conclude its allocated programme for that split in full, before the baton is returned. Or else players will be pulled in two again, and therefore it does not solve the problems we face.

2. In club football, there can be no differentiation between junior adult teams and senior adult teams, for as long as it is a club's "first" team then their county players will be made available to them when the split(s) is for club football.

Numbers:

There is generally assumed to be 2,200 odd  GAA clubs in Ireland.

Let's be clean daft in your favour here, and assume that only 50% of them play adult football. We both know it's closer to 90% but here, no matter.

That means there are 1,100 clubs taking their places in round 1 of their county's JFC, IFC or SFC.

Let's assume (in your favour) that there are perfectly even numbers of clubs, divisible by 4, which means there's no need for pesky preliminary rounds.

Let's also assume (in your favour) that every county board in Ireland has had a Road to Damascus moment and binned their round robin club championships in favour of straight knockout.

Even with all these things trying their best to help you out Sid, we still need 550 fixtures to be completed to get through R1  of the club championships.

——

TO CONCLUDE


So in early season scheduling ramifications, when water tables are high and evenings are short, on any given weekend is it more prudent to plan for a minimum of 550 club fixtures, or a maximum 17 county fixtures?

That's logistics in action. Sid, you don't understand logistics. You just don't get the principles.

It's  also unfair to point out that  every last club will demand the opportunity for at least one league game before playing their first championship match. That means at least 550 matches have to happen before R1. So when you try to frontload club football, you are frontloading thousands of matches.

Last and probably not very important but I'm in a condescending mood. If you were to combine into a total the 550 adult club first team championship matches, and 17 county championship matches, you will find that club matches equate to 97%. I would apologise for misleading you with 98%, except we both know there's a lot more than 1,100 clubs competing in adult football in Ireland.

Over and out.

[Hound]

Hound you're right. I got deviated and unnecessary there.

But at the same time, what Sid has basically arrived at is that there is almost nothing wrong with the current fixtures schedule, and if there's anything wrong at all it's that the pesky club championships aren't wrapped up earlier.

Of course he's an arch contrarian to commonsense, which is the primary reason for this. But i do sense that it's a sentiment that would be shared with many a Dublin fan. But with nobody from another county.

As someone who attends pretty much every club game my club's senior football team plays, and a few home 2nd team, hurling and ladies football club games, I do wonder is the whole "the poor club game" stuff overstated.

Certainly in Dublin, a dual county, and our footballers are inevitable involved until September, the club game runs pretty smoothly (the only exception being the U21 club championship which is usually a shambles, but tbh that's a relatively minor quibble in the whole scheme of things). In my view, most of the time there are problems with clubs games, it is not the GAA's fault, it is not the fault of the intercounty game, it falls nearly 100% on the fault of the relevant county board. So this thing about "fixing" the calendar is hard to understand for me, when the calendar works fine in Dublin, where the pressure is higher than most counties to fit everything in given the large number of clubs, the large number of dual clubs and the regular success (and long season) of the intercounty footballers. Something needs "fixing" but in many counties, but I don't see it as the calendar.

Many people on here actually believe the myth that the reason Dublin punch well below their weight at minor level (despite all the development officers training the primary school children    )and then usually come good at U20 level, is something to do with money. We send them off to this supreme coaching paradise where we throw loads of money at them, they have to do no work or no study and they become professional gaelic footballers. In reality, the reason they improve is because they get immersed in the best club game in the country.

Some people have a quibble that part of the round robin series of the Dublin club championship takes place in April and the rest in September. But the clubs have a choice - full knockout and start in September. Or have a round robin element with more games, but means we need to get a couple of games in in April. Maybe not ideal, but not huge deal either.

But the best part of the Dublin club game is that the fixtures for the full season are released at the end of January/early February. Every league game laid out (15 games for most teams) and the championship format and dates laid out. Players (and fans) can then schedule their plans/holidays etc knowing these are fixed. League games continue throughout the best weather of the summer. No county players for many of those games, but that just means that 16 Division One teams are closer in ability. Super competitive games, amazing intensity and just great entertainment. And what a way to improve a young player.

I'm not saying your ideas are necessarily wrong wobbler. And they could improve things. But the opening premise that the club game is a disaster, nobody cares about the club player, etc., in my opinion and from my perspective, is just not correct.