religious education in schools..

[lawnseed]

In my opinion, this is how school should work. Kid starts school at 9 and finished at 3. They do maths, irish, english etc. At 3 there is an hour for religious education of a type chosen by the school (catholic if the majority are catholic). A teacher or priest or whoever is employed for that hour. Parents who want this education should cover the cost of the teacher, insurance, heat etc during this hour. During normal hours there should be a general religious class educating on the different religions of the world, their differences and likenesses. Preperation for communion or any other religious activity should be done outside normal school hours. Under no circumstances should any school be under the patronage of any church nor have some bishop or priests as the head of that school unless they are voted in as a chairman like in any other committee. Seems a reasonable approach to me but I am sure the religious nazis would have another view on this.

Did you know in Germany to avail of a specific church you declare that you are a member and pay an extra "church tax" which pays for the upkeep of that church through government funding. You won't be married or confirmed etc unless you pay the tax. I think that is a great idea. Imagine how many people in Ireland would save a few pound from drinking or smoking to pay for the upkeep of their church

yes myles. but why have it in the school at all. why not a church hall?
i'm surprised by the notion that to be really irish you need to be catholic and all this pure mentality that we had instilled that must be why we ignore the laws of the country we live in much preferring to circumvent the rules in any underhand way we can leading to the shit we are in right now. I suggest that 'catholic' countries are the most corrupt on the planet, Italy? spain, Ireland, Portugal all great countries.. i'm sure.
  as for clergy in eduacation I was taught in a christain brothers school and I can state the fact that only that they are dead now they'd be in jail for inappropriate behaviour or abuse or some parent/pastpupil would be doing time for killing one of the f**kers! but sure at least they made me irish...

[deiseach]

Jebus lads, if the Brits ever introduced any auld Penal Laws we'd be Morris Dancing at the crossroads every night, wouldn't we?

Probably. But if the goal was to preserve our cultural identity in the North in the face of Unionist propoganda and we had a choice between Catholic schools and Penal Laws, which would you choose?

Deiseach, do you think that question is slightly loaded?

The Irish in the North faced far worse than rugby and cricket in school and yet their culture is still world renowned.

Of course it's loaded, but you were the one who brought up the Penal Laws. Seeing as you seemed to present it as an either/or choice, I asked which you'd rather. As for rugby and cricket in schools, do you really think that's the only difference between the educations delivered in the respective sectors in schools in the North?

[deiseach]

If we're going to get into "what if" speculation about what would have happened if there were no catholic schools then two can play at that game.  How about the state sector would have been half full of fenians and there's no way they'd have allowed those schools to become de-facto protestant schools with no accommodation for the Irish language or Gaelic games in PE?  But with our ones absent from the system there was no opposition to that. The authorities could make the state sector as protestant/unionist in ethos as they liked and the Catholics/nationalists didn't care because they had their own separate system.

Looking at the history of Northern Ireland, the idea that there was 'no way' the Unionist hegemonists would have been able to perpetrate a system whereby it was their way or the (Queen's) highway is just plain weird. There's 'no way' the Northern state would have permitted the Irish language to be taught or Gaelic games played in schools. And those are pretty benign examples. Much more serious would be the history taught in the respective schools. There's nothing wrong with a good what-if exercise, but this is a terrible one.

[muppet]

Jebus lads, if the Brits ever introduced any auld Penal Laws we'd be Morris Dancing at the crossroads every night, wouldn't we?

Probably. But if the goal was to preserve our cultural identity in the North in the face of Unionist propoganda and we had a choice between Catholic schools and Penal Laws, which would you choose?

Deiseach, do you think that question is slightly loaded?

The Irish in the North faced far worse than rugby and cricket in school and yet their culture is still world renowned.

Of course it's loaded, but you were the one who brought up the Penal Laws. Seeing as you seemed to present it as an either/or choice, I asked which you'd rather. As for rugby and cricket in schools, do you really think that's the only difference between the educations delivered in the respective sectors in schools in the North?

Of course not, but it is hardly the reason to retain the status quo, which is what Iceman was arguing.

Imho we should be moving away from our historical baggage.

[deiseach]

Of course not, but it is hardly the reason to retain the status quo, which is what Iceman was arguing.

Imho we should be moving away from our historical baggage.

Fair enough, I take your point.

[Rossfan]

*Does the God Squad not feel a bit embarrassed by the fact that they're openly referred to as "sheep" in need of a "shepherd"?

No - because we are humble enough to accept that we're not perfect - unlike the secularists who think they know everything.

Okay, I'll bite.
Scientist: "I don't know the answer to this question, so I'll do some research and use use empirical evidence to draw conclusions, then subject it to peer review and see how well it stands up to scrutiny."

Theist: "The answer to this question is simple: God did it. That's the answer to everything that man cannot answer. You name it, I can explain it using this old text that was written by middle-eastern goat herders who thought the earth was flat. And you'd better effing believe me, coz if you don't you'll be tortured for all eternity after your death like all the other people who don't believe me."

Can you please tell me the names of the 2 individuals who said/wrote that? any links etc
Or is it you just putting your own views ( prejudiced and blinkered etc - like all of us)  and dressing them up as the thoughts of two other people?

[Eamonnca1]

It's a summary of two arguments. It's a rebuttal of the "arrogant scientists think they know it all" trope. If anybody thinks they know it all it's the religious.

[Rossfan]

In your biased opinion.

[Hardy]

I hereby inaugurate the Fiddler bursary of €5 in Betfair tokens for the first person to deliver an unbiased opinion in this forum. The contest closes on 31st December 2020 if there is no successful claimant by then.

Anyway another succinct summary of the diverse approaches of science and religion to the great questions of life, the universe, everything:
Science is questions that may not be answered. Religion is answers that may not be questioned.

[Eamonnca1]

Of course it's my opinion. Who else's opinion would it be?

[The Iceman]

Sorry lads and ladies, was offline for a ween o' days.

My points have been misrepresented as always..... As has the significance of the "Catholic" tag on "Catholic schools". Our baldy SanFranscisco friend would have us all believe that Catholic education means everyone stops on the hour every hour for prayers, that all students are being nurtured for the Priesthood or Holy Orders and the lessons taught are all tied in to Catholicism. none of that is true.
Today Catholic doesn't mean very much in schools. It's a tag, a stamp and for the most part when a school has a Catholic ethos it really means an Irish ethos. The Irish language will be studied and offered at GCSE level, Gaelic games will be the primary sports of the school and Irish music and all things cultural will be at the very core of what the school does and who the school are.
Going after the "Catholic" part, and from what I see the only way to do that is with "integrated" education, then I believe you lose the "Irish" part too.

No reading between the lines, no making shit up - this is my main point.
Argo ......

[muppet]

Sorry lads and ladies, was offline for a ween o' days.

My points have been misrepresented as always..... As has the significance of the "Catholic" tag on "Catholic schools". Our baldy SanFranscisco friend would have us all believe that Catholic education means everyone stops on the hour every hour for prayers, that all students are being nurtured for the Priesthood or Holy Orders and the lessons taught are all tied in to Catholicism. none of that is true.
Today Catholic doesn't mean very much in schools. It's a tag, a stamp and for the most part when a school has a Catholic ethos it really means an Irish ethos. The Irish language will be studied and offered at GCSE level, Gaelic games will be the primary sports of the school and Irish music and all things cultural will be at the very core of what the school does and who the school are.
Going after the "Catholic" part, and from what I see the only way to do that is with "integrated" education, then I believe you lose the "Irish" part too.

No reading between the lines, no making shit up - this is my main point.
Argo ......

My son starts an integrated school next month.

They will teach Irish, Gaelic Games will be the primary sports, indeed they were the only ones represented (by 2 local clubs) at the 2 open days I attended, and Irish music will be taught. Other cultures will also be well represented.

[muppet]

Just looked at their website and they also offer Irish dancing lessons after school and even offer Irish lessons for adults at night.

[mylestheslasher]

In my opinion, this is how school should work. Kid starts school at 9 and finished at 3. They do maths, irish, english etc. At 3 there is an hour for religious education of a type chosen by the school (catholic if the majority are catholic). A teacher or priest or whoever is employed for that hour. Parents who want this education should cover the cost of the teacher, insurance, heat etc during this hour. During normal hours there should be a general religious class educating on the different religions of the world, their differences and likenesses. Preperation for communion or any other religious activity should be done outside normal school hours. Under no circumstances should any school be under the patronage of any church nor have some bishop or priests as the head of that school unless they are voted in as a chairman like in any other committee. Seems a reasonable approach to me but I am sure the religious nazis would have another view on this.

Did you know in Germany to avail of a specific church you declare that you are a member and pay an extra "church tax" which pays for the upkeep of that church through government funding. You won't be married or confirmed etc unless you pay the tax. I think that is a great idea. Imagine how many people in Ireland would save a few pound from drinking or smoking to pay for the upkeep of their church

yes myles. but why have it in the school at all. why not a church hall?
i'm surprised by the notion that to be really irish you need to be catholic and all this pure mentality that we had instilled that must be why we ignore the laws of the country we live in much preferring to circumvent the rules in any underhand way we can leading to the shit we are in right now. I suggest that 'catholic' countries are the most corrupt on the planet, Italy? spain, Ireland, Portugal all great countries.. i'm sure.
  as for clergy in eduacation I was taught in a christain brothers school and I can state the fact that only that they are dead now they'd be in jail for inappropriate behaviour or abuse or some parent/pastpupil would be doing time for killing one of the f**kers! but sure at least they made me irish...

Have it in the school as the kids are already assembled there. If you want your kids to stay for an extra hour at your cost then grand. If you don't care to give your kids a religious education they go home at 3pm (end of the normal school day) on the bus. I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with this thread?

[mylestheslasher]

Depends how you define culture I suppose.