The ulster rugby trial

[armaghniac]

This whole thing says more about Irish drink culture than anything else. There was a quote earlier on that you can't be expected to remember what happened on a night out and therein lies a lot of the problem.

[Owen Brannigan]

This whole thing says more about Irish drink culture than anything else. There was a quote earlier on that you can't be expected to remember what happened on a night out and therein lies a lot of the problem.

+1

[Syferus]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible. You and a few here seem to think a non-conviction wipes away the proof something horrible happened for some odd reason. And it's horrible you'd try to use a rape trial to point score on a Tyrone minor sledging a Donegal minor too.

[longballin]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

[Tubberman]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

[Syferus]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

A jury not convicting them doesn't mean it wasn't rape. If the woman didn't consent, it was rape. It's very hard to my mind to get around the fact the victim says she did not give her consent, she is the star witness in all this, it's her own wishes that make it rape or not and she very consistently has said it was rape. It's far more implausible that she is lying and let this go to a massive public spectacle of a court case than it is that, at best, two jocks were off their tits on drink and didn't give any respect to or thought the woman's wishes.

If you don't know 'lads' like Jackson and Odling in your own life maybe you don't get how much of their behaviour rings true and is anything but shocking or unbelievable. But I do and I can see how this type of rape could very easily happen up and down the country, and most likely does given how much of an epidemic rape is - RAINN's statistics show 1 in 6 US women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape in their lives. And, by the way, it's about a 6:1 ratio between completed to attempted rapes so that number isn't being bolstered by a lot of lucky escapes. This is a huge problem too many are willing to push under the rug.

Especially in rape cases (notoriously hard to get to trial and hard to try, partly due to sexist attitudes that infect both male and female jurors) the idea that non-conviction is equal to simple innocence is a troubling viewpoint too many here seem to share.

[Milltown Row2]

Well that god there is s judicial system and not Syferus system!

It's very simple, if the jury believe they are guilty in the evidence presented then guilty it is, there won't be one person complaining about it either, and everyone hopes the book is thrown at them..

But in the same token if they are not guilty then that's that, impossible for those lads to get their lives back on track, but they will at least be free..

The IP, well she's had a torrid time, not just whatever happened on the night but what's she's put herself through and family plus living with the consequences after this trial regardless of the result..

Hopefully the plus side of this will be the awareness that young ones hopefully take from this!

[nrico2006]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

A jury not convicting them doesn't mean it wasn't rape. If the woman didn't consent, it was rape. It's very hard to my mind to get around the fact the victim says she did not give her consent, she is the star witness in all this, it's her own wishes that make it rape or not and she very consistently has said it was rape. It's far more implausible that she is lying and let this go to a massive public spectacle of a court case than it is that, at best, two jocks were off their tits on drink and didn't give any respect to or thought the woman's wishes.

If you don't know 'lads' like Jackson and Odling in your own life maybe you don't get how much of their behaviour rings true and is anything but shocking or unbelievable. But I do and I can see how this type of rape could very easily happen up and down the country, and most likely does given how much of an epidmedic rape is - RAINN's statistics show 1 in 6 US women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape in their lives. And, by the way, it's a about a 6:1 ratio between completed and attempted rapes so that number isn't being bolstered by a lot of lucky escapes. This is a huge problem too many are willing to push under the rug.

Especially in rape cases (notoriously hard to get to trial and hard to try, partly due to sexist attitudes that infect both male and female jurors) the idea that non-conviction is equal to simple innocence is a troubling viewpoint too many here seem to share.

Using your logic of making assumptions, what would you assume was her reason for going to the lads house on her own at that time of morning?

[Syferus]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

A jury not convicting them doesn't mean it wasn't rape. If the woman didn't consent, it was rape. It's very hard to my mind to get around the fact the victim says she did not give her consent, she is the star witness in all this, it's her own wishes that make it rape or not and she very consistently has said it was rape. It's far more implausible that she is lying and let this go to a massive public spectacle of a court case than it is that, at best, two jocks were off their tits on drink and didn't give any respect to or thought the woman's wishes.

If you don't know 'lads' like Jackson and Odling in your own life maybe you don't get how much of their behaviour rings true and is anything but shocking or unbelievable. But I do and I can see how this type of rape could very easily happen up and down the country, and most likely does given how much of an epidmedic rape is - RAINN's statistics show 1 in 6 US women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape in their lives. And, by the way, it's a about a 6:1 ratio between completed and attempted rapes so that number isn't being bolstered by a lot of lucky escapes. This is a huge problem too many are willing to push under the rug.

Especially in rape cases (notoriously hard to get to trial and hard to try, partly due to sexist attitudes that infect both male and female jurors) the idea that non-conviction is equal to simple innocence is a troubling viewpoint too many here seem to share.

Using your logic of making assumptions, what would you assume was her reason for going to the lads house on her own at that time of morning?

She was interested in Jackson. She just decided not to have sex with him. You seem to think that her interest in him means he's absolved for not respecting her wishes. He isn't.

[Tubberman]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

A jury not convicting them doesn't mean it wasn't rape. If the woman didn't consent, it was rape. It's very hard to my mind to get around the fact the victim says she did not give her consent, she is the star witness in all this, it's her own wishes that make it rape or not and she very consistently has said it was rape. It's far more implausible that she is lying and let this go to a massive public spectacle of a court case than it is that, at best, two jocks were off their tits on drink and didn't give any respect to or thought the woman's wishes.

If you don't know 'lads' like Jackson and Odling in your own life maybe you don't get how much of their behaviour rings true and is anything but shocking or unbelievable. But I do and I can see how this type of rape could very easily happen up and down the country, and most likely does given how much of an epidmedic rape is - RAINN's statistics show 1 in 6 US women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape in their lives. And, by the way, it's a about a 6:1 ratio between completed and attempted rapes so that number isn't being bolstered by a lot of lucky escapes. This is a huge problem too many are willing to push under the rug.

Especially in rape cases (notoriously hard to get to trial and hard to try, partly due to sexist attitudes that infect both male and female jurors) the idea that non-conviction is equal to simple innocence is a troubling viewpoint too many here seem to share.

I've seen very little evidence that she didn't consent. Regret after the fact doesn't make it rape, and is extremely damaging to the accused and to rape victims

[nrico2006]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

A jury not convicting them doesn't mean it wasn't rape. If the woman didn't consent, it was rape. It's very hard to my mind to get around the fact the victim says she did not give her consent, she is the star witness in all this, it's her own wishes that make it rape or not and she very consistently has said it was rape. It's far more implausible that she is lying and let this go to a massive public spectacle of a court case than it is that, at best, two jocks were off their tits on drink and didn't give any respect to or thought the woman's wishes.

If you don't know 'lads' like Jackson and Odling in your own life maybe you don't get how much of their behaviour rings true and is anything but shocking or unbelievable. But I do and I can see how this type of rape could very easily happen up and down the country, and most likely does given how much of an epidmedic rape is - RAINN's statistics show 1 in 6 US women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape in their lives. And, by the way, it's a about a 6:1 ratio between completed and attempted rapes so that number isn't being bolstered by a lot of lucky escapes. This is a huge problem too many are willing to push under the rug.

Especially in rape cases (notoriously hard to get to trial and hard to try, partly due to sexist attitudes that infect both male and female jurors) the idea that non-conviction is equal to simple innocence is a troubling viewpoint too many here seem to share.

I've seen very little evidence that she didn't consent. Regret after the fact doesn't make it rape, and is extremely damaging to the accused and to rape victims

Surely non-conviction should equate innocence though, given you are innocent until proven guilty.

[Syferus]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

A jury not convicting them doesn't mean it wasn't rape. If the woman didn't consent, it was rape. It's very hard to my mind to get around the fact the victim says she did not give her consent, she is the star witness in all this, it's her own wishes that make it rape or not and she very consistently has said it was rape. It's far more implausible that she is lying and let this go to a massive public spectacle of a court case than it is that, at best, two jocks were off their tits on drink and didn't give any respect to or thought the woman's wishes.

If you don't know 'lads' like Jackson and Odling in your own life maybe you don't get how much of their behaviour rings true and is anything but shocking or unbelievable. But I do and I can see how this type of rape could very easily happen up and down the country, and most likely does given how much of an epidmedic rape is - RAINN's statistics show 1 in 6 US women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape in their lives. And, by the way, it's a about a 6:1 ratio between completed and attempted rapes so that number isn't being bolstered by a lot of lucky escapes. This is a huge problem too many are willing to push under the rug.

Especially in rape cases (notoriously hard to get to trial and hard to try, partly due to sexist attitudes that infect both male and female jurors) the idea that non-conviction is equal to simple innocence is a troubling viewpoint too many here seem to share.

I've seen very little evidence that she didn't consent. Regret after the fact doesn't make it rape, and is extremely damaging to the accused and to rape victims

It's much more damaging to rape victims that someone would choose to believe they are lying about consent and let charges and a court case be filed. Most rape victims don't even report it to the police Tubber, and the ones that reach trial are a rare breed in and of themselves. Your lack of empathy for the victim while your fountain of reasons why the accused were justified is a concern to say the least.

[Tubberman]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

A jury not convicting them doesn't mean it wasn't rape. If the woman didn't consent, it was rape. It's very hard to my mind to get around the fact the victim says she did not give her consent, she is the star witness in all this, it's her own wishes that make it rape or not and she very consistently has said it was rape. It's far more implausible that she is lying and let this go to a massive public spectacle of a court case than it is that, at best, two jocks were off their tits on drink and didn't give any respect to or thought the woman's wishes.

If you don't know 'lads' like Jackson and Odling in your own life maybe you don't get how much of their behaviour rings true and is anything but shocking or unbelievable. But I do and I can see how this type of rape could very easily happen up and down the country, and most likely does given how much of an epidmedic rape is - RAINN's statistics show 1 in 6 US women have been the victims of rape or attempted rape in their lives. And, by the way, it's a about a 6:1 ratio between completed and attempted rapes so that number isn't being bolstered by a lot of lucky escapes. This is a huge problem too many are willing to push under the rug.

Especially in rape cases (notoriously hard to get to trial and hard to try, partly due to sexist attitudes that infect both male and female jurors) the idea that non-conviction is equal to simple innocence is a troubling viewpoint too many here seem to share.

I've seen very little evidence that she didn't consent. Regret after the fact doesn't make it rape, and is extremely damaging to the accused and to rape victims

It's much more damaging to rape victims that someone would choose to believe they are lying about consent and let charges and a court case be filed. Most rape victims don't even report it to the police Tubber, and the ones that reach trial are a rare breed in and of themselves. Your lack of empathy for the victim while your fountain of reasons why the accused were justified is a concern to say the least.

"Fountain of reasons "  - what are you raving about!?
I said I've seen very little evidence that she didn't consent. I made no comment on the defendants.  I'm taking it on the reports of the testimonies provided.  You seem to believe that the defendants are guilty on the basis that it's difficult for a girl to take a case like this (whixh it undoubtedly is), but that in itself is not proof Syf.

[Asal Mor]

Well put Tubber.

[fearbrags]

Syferus  , I  know you are from Roscommon  as am I . What do you work at ? Are you in the legal field ? How can you be so sure ? You seem to court a lot of controversy on both on here and the Ros site   I would not want you on my jury    I do agree that the Victim sounds very sincere but it  is very difficult to know what exactly  happened , I believe that if Stuart Olding and Blane McIlroy  had not entered the room that she would have regretted what happened but would never have brought this case. Personally at the start of the case I did think that they would be found guilty, Of late I would more lean towards  not guilty with not enough clear evidence of what exactly happened  .