Tyrone v Armagh

[naka]

Armagh county board will do well to shift 100 tickets for this one.  Annihilation on the cards.

Why don't you feck off
If we get put of aughrim which I expect to
We will be ready for you boys
You are like we were in 2006 hoping to role back to years

[under the bar]

Why don't you feck off
If we get put of aughrim which I expect to
We will be ready for you boys
You are like we were in 2006 hoping to role back to years

No need to get shirty now.  I'm just advising you not to waste your pocket money buying a ticket. 

Any chance you could give it a rest.

Ach Omagh Gael, are ye just annoyed 'cos you started a thread on the game that no-one was interested in replying to?..  lighten up man !

[ziggysego]

Hard to know, which I relish the more. Tyrone v Armagh or Harte v Micko?

[Fuzzman]

I would much prefer to see us getting Micklow and playing non Ulster teams that we never met before.

Longford certainly put it up to us in that 1st half last week but it was nice to see us back scoring reasonably well again and that was without SoN, Mugsy, Brian McG. Even Penrose had a quiet enough game scoring wise. I hope he starts Coney again and he gets descent ball kicked into him.
I'd say if he gets his confidence back he could be a great forward for us as he's big & strong and skillful. Its all about getting his head right now I think.

[PAULD123]

Just wondering what the feeling is in Tyrone about the team. From the outside I think a lot of people believe we are witnessing the slide of Tyrone. A lot of people feel that Tyrone have started slipping backwards from the hay day of the mid-2000s and are likely to slowly lose ground a little each year.

Do Tyrone fans think that or is the feeling that Tyrone are still currently as good as anyone and more importantly is there a feeling that Tyrone will return to being a major force in the championship for several years to come?

Not winding up just curious

[ONeill]

Our lads from '03 maybe don't have that youthful zest but.....

I think that with regular games, this Tyrone squad are All-Ireland contenders. This route (backdoor) seems to suit Tyrone and the current set of players. Even their front door All-Ireland in 2003 consisted of 2 matches v Derry and Down because of draws. The straightforward 3-game Ulster winning campaigns of 2009/10 left Tyrone a little cold.

Coupled with that bit of luck in terms of the draw (i.e. we might not have survived an away trip to Kildare or Meath), a series of regular, and gradually more difficult, games could squeeze out one last piece of magic.

I watched a rerun of Mulligan and McGuigan burning up the Kerry corner backs in 2003. They cannot do that now but, with the recent new additions now able to perform that task, their experience is invaluable.

[Club Rossa]

Armagh were awful against Derry and from what i hear they weren't good on Saturday but you can be assured that if they get over Wicklow they will give Tyrone one hell of a game.

[omagh_gael]

Anyone think any of the guys who missed out last weekend will regain their jersey? Can see Mickey going for the same 15, barring any injuries between now and then.

[PAULD123]

Our lads from '03 maybe don't have that youthful zest but.....

I think that with regular games, this Tyrone squad are All-Ireland contenders. This route (backdoor) seems to suit Tyrone and the current set of players. Even their front door All-Ireland in 2003 consisted of 2 matches v Derry and Down because of draws. The straightforward 3-game Ulster winning campaigns of 2008/9 left Tyrone a little cold.

Coupled with that bit of luck in terms of the draw (i.e. we might not have survived an away trip to Kildare or Meath), a series of regular, and gradually more difficult, games could squeeze out one last piece of magic.

I watched a rerun of Mulligan and McGuigan burning up the Kerry corner backs in 2003. They cannot do that now but, with the recent new additions now able to perform that task, their experience is invaluable.

I guess that's kind of what I was asking about. your comment implies that you are hoping for/expecting "one last hurrah". So does that mean you do feel that the team is coming to the end of the line, and the more interesting question is where do you think you will go from here?

There has never really been much of a transition in bringing in younger players, and largely speaking most of the Tyrone players are from the great side. I would think that means they all age and finally lose effectiveness/retire together. Will that leave such a hole in the Tyrone set-up that by next year or so Tyrone are a quarter final team at best? Or do you feel that you are well placed for a transition and an ability to maintain challenges for Sam for the next 4-5 years?

[heffo]

I watched a rerun of Mulligan and McGuigan burning up the Kerry corner backs in 2003. They cannot do that now but, with the recent new additions now able to perform that task, their experience is invaluable.

I agree with the first part of your post O'Neill but are the new additions able to do that and have they done it in August when it matters against the top teams?

[LeoMc]

Anyone think any of the guys who missed out last weekend will regain their jersey? Can see Mickey going for the same 15, barring any injuries between now and then.

I would like ot see Swifty back in for Carlin and if he replaced Brian with Tommy to allow Petey HArte the freedom of CHF which he seemed to relish then I think we could say he have a relatively fresh team.

Only McConnell, Gormley & Jordan from the 98/99 team and Gormley could be replaced by Red Sean or McCarron if he doesn't recover.
Ricey and Sean Kavanagh the only other starters from 2003. Were Joe McMahon or Penrose on the bench in 2003?

[ONeill]

That's the thing about transition - it is slowly seeping in. You look at players like the McMahons - they weren't involved in 2003. Penrose (didn't play in 05 final), Swift, Peter Harte, Aidan Cassidy, Donnelly, Colm Cavanagh, Coney....they're all relatively fresh.

Can Penrose, Donnelly and Coney give a full back line bother in August? - no one knows yet.

[LeoMc]

Evolution not revolution.

At least id we realise about 40 mninutes into an AIQF that the new lads are not yet up to it we have some experienced heads who should be good for 25-30 minutes.

[mrgaa1]

unfortunately the end of the road for a few Tyrone players will be upon them shortly.  Tyrone need a new impetus and next year they may get that.  But provided there is a result this Saturday either Wicklow or Armagh will bring Tyrones run to an end - thus ending one of the greatest teams in recent times run in the championship.  Armagh will put Micko into retirement and Tyrone to the sword within 8 days - what a great time to be an orangeman 

[Fuzzman]

I thoiught I'd do a bit of research there to see how the Tyrone team has changed over the years.
Here are the Tyrone teams from 03, 05 & 08.
If I made any errors no doubt ye'll let me know.

2003
Devine
Gourley
McAnallen
McMenamin
Gormley
Gavin Devlin
Jordan
Cavanagh
Hughes
Dooher
McGuigan
Cavlan
Mugsy
Canavan (on his crutches)
McGinley

Can anyone name the subs?

2005
Horse Devlin & Cavlan retired. Joey & Davey brought in. Mellon & O'Neill got starting slots
McConnell
McMenamin
Joey
McGee
Harte
Gormley
Jordan
McGinley
Cavanagh
Dooher
McGuigan
Mellon
Mulligan
O'Neill
Canavan

So from the 2003 to 2005 years Lawn. Devlin & Gourley all lost their places, though Gourley more through injury. Poor Cormac passed on

2008
McConnell
McMenamin
Justin
Joey
Harte
Gormley
Jordan
McGinley
Colly Holmes
Dooher
Penrose (McGuigan injured)
Mellon
T.McGuigan
S.Cavanagh
C.McCullagh
O'Neill

Canavan,Colly Holmes & Back Lawn retired - Justy, Penrose, Colm Cavanagh, Colly McCullagh all brought in as regulars

2011 - Championship appearances so far
McConnell
McMenamin/Gormley
Joey/Justy/McCarron
Swift/Carlin
Harte/McMenamin
Justy/Gormley/Sean O'Neill
Jordan
Cassidy/Hughes
S Cavanagh
Dooher/C Cavanagh
B.McGuigan/P.Harte
P.Harte
Penrose/Tommy McGuigan
Mark Donnelly/SoN
Mugsy/SoN/Coney

As far as I can see there are 9 main long stay players which are still considered regulars.
McConnell
Ricey
Gormley
Jordan
Hughes
Dooher
B.McGuigan
Mugsy
SoN

We look like we've a few options now at MF so the pressure if off a bit to keep Hub at MF, especially if young Cassidy can stay fit. 2 Cavanaghs & 2 McMahons & young McKenna can all play there.
The 2 McMahons & Cavanaghs have settled well into the team and Penrose has become one of our main forwards over the past few years. Quieter so far this year I think
Sean O'Neill, Carlin, McCarron, Swift, McCaul & PJ Quinn are all finding it hard to lay claim to a jersey with the older lads still looking reliable to date
If we can get a few games more for Donnelly, Coney & Peter Harte then it will benefit them greatly and bring a freshness to our forward line.

People forget that the team in 2003 just didn't come in and perform well overnight.
They took time to settle in and displace the team from the 90's.
After this year I'd expect McGinley, Dooher & Ricey to maybe retire though in fairness to Ricey he is still going as well as Gormley & Jordan.
They might have all lost that pace they had when in their mid 20's but what they lose their in man to man marking they pick up a lot in experience and reading of the game.
I'd still be worried about them being left one on one with someone like Gooch or Kerrigan from Cork etc but with the evolutuon of defensive systems maybe they won't get as exposed as they might years ago.

IMHO if Mickey sticks with the changes he implemented last week and not revert back to the older guard then the squad has developed slowly and surely
To me the day Gormley and Jordan retire will be a significant day. They are 2 big rocks that defence have had for years now and although the McMahons have strengthened the central positions the new wing & corner backs need to start making more progress.
Sean O'Neill & if he can stay fit McNabb should eventually get the wing back slots with maybe McCaul & Swift or Carlin securing the corners.
They might not there just yet but we said the same years ago when Fay & Paul Devlin retired.

I think their is a feeling among fans that we don't have what it takes any more to blow teams away and play at pace and high intensity for more than 40 or 50 mins.
We are kinda hoping though that we might have enough mixture of experience & youth within the team to get to the 1/4 finals and see how we go from there.