https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/taoiseach-facing-biggest-dilemma-of-his-political-career-as-country-on-verge-of-christmas-election-36349227.html
I dont follow ROI politics as much as the UK but i reckon he should force FF's hand and call their bluff, blame them for an unwanted election. Election weariness was a big factor in the Conservatives poor showing in the last UK.
I think FF will back away from this "in the general interest" albeit with "serious reservations". This is the first shot across the bow though. They know Varadker isn't as visible or popular as maybe Fine Gael thought he would be. Nobody wants a Christmas election.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 09:11:41 AM
I think FF will back away from this "in the general interest" albeit with "serious reservations". This is the first shot across the bow though. They know Varadker isn't as visible or popular as maybe Fine Gael thought he would be. Nobody wants a Christmas election.
I don't know about that AZ. There's some FF voters unhappy that they are propping up the govt because of bennydorano's post above.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 09:11:41 AM
I think FF will back away from this "in the general interest" albeit with "serious reservations". This is the first shot across the bow though. They know Varadker isn't as visible or popular as maybe Fine Gael thought he would be. Nobody wants a Christmas election.
Don't know how it is reported in RoI but it appears that Varadkar is never out of the media in NI. Perhaps he is more interested in his media image and travelling abroad than making any real contact outside the Dublin political bubble. Not really a man of the people, gives the impression of being aloof. However, he has given SF a fair working over in the Dail. In the end, FG election prospects depend on reaching out well beyond their small core vote and I wouldn't be sure that Varadkar has managed to make that broad reach across the country.
look at the positives Syferis will be too busy canvassing for FG to be on here
FG might be happy to dodge the abortion referendum. FF look like they're going for it. FG will have to get rid of Frances or go for the election.
If it's FF or FG it's basically rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic though.
If there's "No confidence" voted in Fitzgerald what then? Is she obliged to resign or what?
Do FF have to wait to see if she'll step down and if not put a No Confidence motion in the Government?
Can't see a GE changing much other than FG and FF might get a few more seats each while some of the loonier lefties and Indos might be dumped.
Brexit is getting very serious for Northern Ireland. The 4th green field may have a new entrance and slatted shed. Now is not the time for an election
FF no confidence motion to be debated on Tuesday. Bad time for an election, maybe Fitzgerald will resign before Tues??
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 09:11:41 AM
I think FF will back away from this "in the general interest" albeit with "serious reservations". This is the first shot across the bow though. They know Varadker isn't as visible or popular as maybe Fine Gael thought he would be. Nobody wants a Christmas election.
LV is way more competent in debates than MM (and lord help Mary Lou or Zombie Gerry if they to debate him). And a lot less baggage than either too. Of the four main leaders he's probably the best equipped to run a good campaign.
The only problem is there's alot of budget related legislation that would be shelved if an election happens next month. The reality is Fitzgerald will be told to fûck off, if we're being honest.
Unless LV wants to go for the big prize..
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
I think Varadkar is seen as toxic in rural ireland and have seen no proof yet as to his superior debating prowess...
Given the present situation with Brexit and the whole border question, the last thing anyone on this island needs is an election in the Republic.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
There's a reason they stick up as many posters of the party leader as the local candidate in areas where it's a toss up, AZ. A leader that is seen as polished and competent (which is enough with the field we have at the minute) can bring home enough preferences to pull those candidates over the line. FF will likely be blamed for this election, so LV has an opportunity if he wants it.
The left wing parties like SF and the water charges are going to get a punch in the face if this goes to the polls.
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
There's a reason they stick up as many posters of the party leader as the local candidate in areas where it's a toss up, AZ. A leader that is seen as polished and competent (which is enough with the field we have at the minute) can bring home enough preferences to pull those candidates over the line. FF will likely be blamed for this election, so LV has an opportunity if he wants it.
The left wing parties like SF and the water charges are going to get a punch in the face if this goes to the polls.
That's what I just said. The man at the top has to be somewhat popular. I'm not sure Leo is. I think he comes across as a smug enough fella.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
Opinion polls, for what they are worth, still show him as the most popular leader. However, the opposition are a desperate bunch of has beens so that is not saying much. It would ruin Christmas to see any of their smug mugs nailed to a telegraph poll. The end result would hardly change much either. I doubt the country wants a FF/SF coalition which is the only realistic alternative.
Quote from: weareros on November 24, 2017, 04:27:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
Opinion polls, for what they are worth, still show him as the most popular leader. However, the opposition are a desperate bunch of has beens so that is not saying much. It would ruin Christmas to see any of their smug mugs nailed to a telegraph poll. The end result would hardly change much either. I doubt the country wants a FF/SF coalition which is the only realistic alternative.
I agree. For what it's worth, I think he's the best of a bad lot. But he needs to do something about his aloof profile.
I wouldn't be surprised to see FF and SF cosying up after any election, particularly if Micheal Martin decides to fall on his sword in order to pave the way. He cannot be seen to lead a coalition with SF at this stage, but there are plenty of FF people who wouldn't mind it. Especially when you think that the junior part in a coalition normally ends up getting toasted.
Either way, I think FF have badly misjudged the mood of the nation if they force this, so I can see some sort of behind the scenes mutual climbdown which will head it off.
Quote from: Orchard park on November 24, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
I think Varadkar is seen as toxic in rural ireland and have seen no proof yet as to his superior debating prowess...
Telling that the Blueshirt membership voted for Coveney in the leadership contest.
Present lot are bad but jaysus does anyone want to see Willie O'feckinD or Barry Bloody Cowen as Ministers?
I hope Frances Fitzgerald on " mature reflection and in the National Interest" decides to step down.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:35:38 PM
Either way, I think FF have badly misjudged the mood of the nation if they force this, so I can see some sort of behind the scenes mutual climbdown which will head it off.
SF forced FF's hand by calling for the no confidence vote after MM deciding to try to talk out of both sides of his mouth by criticising Fitzgerald and not doing anything about it.
FG are about the only party who have a solid opportunity if this heads to the polls, as I'm betting the public couldn't give two fûcks about Fitzgerald's emails or even the weary excercise in politicking that has become the whole McCabe issue.
FF can be rightly blamed for putting party politics before the country, and the high watermark for far left groups is likely to subside in the face of a significantly better economy. If LV enters the holidays with a better mandate he better send Enda a Christmas card.
Quote from: Orchard park on November 24, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
I think Varadkar is seen as toxic in rural ireland and have seen no proof yet as to his superior debating prowess...
Is it not a bit early to draw such a conclusion?
Minorit FG propped up.by remnant FF. It is very unstable. Government is serious. FF are not
Seafoid, do you post in some sort of haiku?
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 24, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
Don't know how it is reported in RoI but it appears that Varadkar is never out of the media in NI. Perhaps he is more interested in his media image and travelling abroad than making any real contact outside the Dublin political bubble. Not really a man of the people, gives the impression of being aloof. However, he has given SF a fair working over in the Dail. In the end, FG election prospects depend on reaching out well beyond their small core vote and I wouldn't be sure that Varadkar has managed to make that broad reach across the country.
I think he has crossed over to some who would never have voted for Enda Kenny but i do think he is losing his base. FGers are educated about how politics suits them, they want a stable politician with a stable leadership. Varadkar doesn't provide that. He wants to be a celebrity politician. That doesn't wash with traditional FGers. I think Simon Coveney is probably more popular in FGs base and he's capable too. He is the one they want in charge.
While Varadkar is swaning it on twitter, Coveney is doing real politic in the Irish Times , Financial Times , RTE debates, the Farmers Journal etc. This is where the FG audience is.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:58:00 PM
Seafoid, do you post in some sort of haiku?
Is it not too long for a Haiku? If Willie Ô dea had been mentioned it could have been a limerick
Quote from: vallankumous on November 24, 2017, 04:59:58 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 24, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
Don't know how it is reported in RoI but it appears that Varadkar is never out of the media in NI. Perhaps he is more interested in his media image and travelling abroad than making any real contact outside the Dublin political bubble. Not really a man of the people, gives the impression of being aloof. However, he has given SF a fair working over in the Dail. In the end, FG election prospects depend on reaching out well beyond their small core vote and I wouldn't be sure that Varadkar has managed to make that broad reach across the country.
I think he has crossed over to some who would never have voted for Enda Kenny but i do think he is losing his base. FGers are educated about how politics suits them, they want a stable politician with a stable leadership. Varadkar doesn't provide that. He wants to be a celebrity politician. That doesn't wash with traditional FGers. I think Simon Coveney is probably more popular in FGs base and he's capable too. He is the one they want in charge.
While Varadkar is swaning it on twitter, Coveney is doing real politic in the Irish Times , Financial Times , RTE debates, the Farmers Journal etc. This is where the FG audience is.
Elections are won and lost in urban areas, not the countryside. LV appeals to the people FG need to get on side to get a majority government.
Rural voters, particularly when it comes to FG and FF, still tend to vote along familial lines. Coveney would have just been preaching to the choir, something he can do from the front bench as effectively as the front seat.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
There's a reason they stick up as many posters of the party leader as the local candidate in areas where it's a toss up, AZ. A leader that is seen as polished and competent (which is enough with the field we have at the minute) can bring home enough preferences to pull those candidates over the line. FF will likely be blamed for this election, so LV has an opportunity if he wants it.
The left wing parties like SF and the water charges are going to get a punch in the face if this goes to the polls.
That's what I just said. The man at the top has to be somewhat popular. I'm not sure Leo is. I think he comes across as a smug enough fella.
Me too AZ. Covent might have been better for them.
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
There's a reason they stick up as many posters of the party leader as the local candidate in areas where it's a toss up, AZ. A leader that is seen as polished and competent (which is enough with the field we have at the minute) can bring home enough preferences to pull those candidates over the line. FF will likely be blamed for this election, so LV has an opportunity if he wants it.
The left wing parties like SF and the water charges are going to get a punch in the face if this goes to the polls.
Not sure about that. The electorate is volatile. FG badly misjudged the last election. How they would do is in their own hands. The message needs to resonate.
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:34:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
There's a reason they stick up as many posters of the party leader as the local candidate in areas where it's a toss up, AZ. A leader that is seen as polished and competent (which is enough with the field we have at the minute) can bring home enough preferences to pull those candidates over the line. FF will likely be blamed for this election, so LV has an opportunity if he wants it.
The left wing parties like SF and the water charges are going to get a punch in the face if this goes to the polls.
Not sure about that. The electorate is volatile. FG badly misjudged the last election. How they would do is in their own hands. The message needs to resonate.
They
won the election.
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on November 24, 2017, 04:59:58 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 24, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
Don't know how it is reported in RoI but it appears that Varadkar is never out of the media in NI. Perhaps he is more interested in his media image and travelling abroad than making any real contact outside the Dublin political bubble. Not really a man of the people, gives the impression of being aloof. However, he has given SF a fair working over in the Dail. In the end, FG election prospects depend on reaching out well beyond their small core vote and I wouldn't be sure that Varadkar has managed to make that broad reach across the country.
I think he has crossed over to some who would never have voted for Enda Kenny but i do think he is losing his base. FGers are educated about how politics suits them, they want a stable politician with a stable leadership. Varadkar doesn't provide that. He wants to be a celebrity politician. That doesn't wash with traditional FGers. I think Simon Coveney is probably more popular in FGs base and he's capable too. He is the one they want in charge.
While Varadkar is swaning it on twitter, Coveney is doing real politic in the Irish Times , Financial Times , RTE debates, the Farmers Journal etc. This is where the FG audience is.
Elections are won and lost in urban areas, not the countryside. LV appeals to the people FG need to get on side to get a majority government.
Rural voters, particularly when it comes to FG and FF, still tend to vote along familial lines. Covney would have just been preaching to the choir, something he can do from the front bench as effectively as the front seat.
[/quote
Ok toxic outside of Dublin in case the Syferus 1 thinks I meant non urban centres
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:34:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
There's a reason they stick up as many posters of the party leader as the local candidate in areas where it's a toss up, AZ. A leader that is seen as polished and competent (which is enough with the field we have at the minute) can bring home enough preferences to pull those candidates over the line. FF will likely be blamed for this election, so LV has an opportunity if he wants it.
The left wing parties like SF and the water charges are going to get a punch in the face if this goes to the polls.
Not sure about that. The electorate is volatile. FG badly misjudged the last election. How they would do is in their own hands. The message needs to resonate.
They won the election.
If they had won Syf a FF vote of no confidence would be irrelevant. They didn't make the quota
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:42:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:34:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
There's a reason they stick up as many posters of the party leader as the local candidate in areas where it's a toss up, AZ. A leader that is seen as polished and competent (which is enough with the field we have at the minute) can bring home enough preferences to pull those candidates over the line. FF will likely be blamed for this election, so LV has an opportunity if he wants it.
The left wing parties like SF and the water charges are going to get a punch in the face if this goes to the polls.
Not sure about that. The electorate is volatile. FG badly misjudged the last election. How they would do is in their own hands. The message needs to resonate.
They won the election.
If they had won Syf a FF vote of no confidence would be irrelevant. They didn't make the quota
You
really don't know Irish election history if you think the last election counts as a disaster for FG.
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 05:48:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:42:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 24, 2017, 05:34:41 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 04:23:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
There's a reason they stick up as many posters of the party leader as the local candidate in areas where it's a toss up, AZ. A leader that is seen as polished and competent (which is enough with the field we have at the minute) can bring home enough preferences to pull those candidates over the line. FF will likely be blamed for this election, so LV has an opportunity if he wants it.
The left wing parties like SF and the water charges are going to get a punch in the face if this goes to the polls.
Not sure about that. The electorate is volatile. FG badly misjudged the last election. How they would do is in their own hands. The message needs to resonate.
They won the election.
If they had won Syf a FF vote of no confidence would be irrelevant. They didn't make the quota
You really don't know Irish election history if you think the last election counts as a disaster for FG.
polarisation is everywhere. It is because of the economic situation.
The last election was like an unplanned pregnancy for FG.
Will there now be a big rush for one side to cosy up with SF?
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 24, 2017, 06:05:11 PM
Will there now be a big rush for one side to cosy up with SF?
Nope.
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 24, 2017, 06:05:11 PM
Will there now be a big rush for one side to cosy up with SF?
What side?? Fine Gael and Finna Fail are pretty much the exact same thing. Nobody really notices that they are cozying up in government together. Piggies all eating from the same trough.
An amalgamation would be better for the country. Sick of their petty little squabbles that distracts from tackling the real issues.
Again from someone who doesn't follow it overly closely - MM always comes across terribly imo, I always be fairly impressed with LV as well, but maybe it's just my Liberal / Natural Political tendencies coming out in me. I still associate FF with Gombeenism and the worst excesses of the recent past.
A few backbenchers might talk sense into Michael Martin over the weekend
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 09:11:41 AM
I think FF will back away from this "in the general interest" albeit with "serious reservations". This is the first shot across the bow though. They know Varadker isn't as visible or popular as maybe Fine Gael thought he would be. Nobody wants a Christmas election.
LV is way more competent in debates than MM (and lord help Mary Lou or Zombie Gerry if they to debate him). And a lot less baggage than either too. Of the four main leaders he's probably the best equipped to run a good campaign.
The only problem is there's alot of budget related legislation that would be shelved if an election happens next month. The reality is Fitzgerald will be told to fûck off, if we're being honest.
Unless LV wants to go for the big prize..
Love him or hate him, Micheál Martin is by far the best debater of all of the leaders.
I think you've the blue tinted glasses on!!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:06:19 PM
He's not engaging though. He comes across as a D4 head, and he hasn't reached the constituencies I think. I'm not sure anybody really pays any remarks to debate. In Ireland, as most places, politics is local but the man or woman at the top has to be somewhat popular.
That's exactly what he is. A D4 head
Quote from: LooseCannon on November 24, 2017, 08:41:08 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 09:11:41 AM
I think FF will back away from this "in the general interest" albeit with "serious reservations". This is the first shot across the bow though. They know Varadker isn't as visible or popular as maybe Fine Gael thought he would be. Nobody wants a Christmas election.
LV is way more competent in debates than MM (and lord help Mary Lou or Zombie Gerry if they to debate him). And a lot less baggage than either too. Of the four main leaders he's probably the best equipped to run a good campaign.
The only problem is there's alot of budget related legislation that would be shelved if an election happens next month. The reality is Fitzgerald will be told to fûck off, if we're being honest.
Unless LV wants to go for the big prize..
Love him or hate him, Micheál Martin is by far the best debater of all of the leaders.
I think you've the blue tinted glasses on!!!
Your opinion doesn't even reflect this thread, let alone reality. MM walkedhimself into this crisis through sloppily thought out words. Great debater alright.
Quote from: Syferus on November 24, 2017, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 24, 2017, 04:35:38 PM
Either way, I think FF have badly misjudged the mood of the nation if they force this, so I can see some sort of behind the scenes mutual climbdown which will head it off.
SF forced FF's hand by calling for the no confidence vote after MM deciding to try to talk out of both sides of his mouth by criticising Fitzgerald and not doing anything about it.
FG are about the only party who have a solid opportunity if this heads to the polls, as I'm betting the public couldn't give two fûcks about Fitzgerald's emails or even the weary excercise in politicking that has become the whole McCabe issue.
FF can be rightly blamed for putting party politics before the country, and the high watermark for far left groups is likely to subside in the face of a significantly better economy. If LV enters the holidays with a better mandate he better send Enda a Christmas card.
It's not party politics, it's much, much more than that. Christ, you must be a smurf, if you know what I mean ;) ;)
PP odds favouring a 2018 election (4/7) over a 2017 one (5/4). Leo and Martin same odds for next Taoiseach @10/11 but oddly FF/SF or FF minority govt marginal favourites @5/1 over FG/FF or FG minority @11/2.
So basically, too close to call
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 24, 2017, 11:29:26 PM
PP odds favouring a 2018 election (4/7) over a 2017 one (5/4). Leo and Martin same odds for next Taoiseach @10/11 but oddly FF/SF or FF minority govt marginal favourites @5/1 over FG/FF or FG minority @11/2.
So basically, too close to call
Not according to Syfīn. .. Bueshurts to win 90 seats ;D ::)
Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2017, 11:34:06 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 24, 2017, 11:29:26 PM
PP odds favouring a 2018 election (4/7) over a 2017 one (5/4). Leo and Martin same odds for next Taoiseach @10/11 but oddly FF/SF or FF minority govt marginal favourites @5/1 over FG/FF or FG minority @11/2.
So basically, too close to call
Not according to Syfīn. .. Bueshurts to win 90 seats ;D ::)
Odds on politics is in the same league as betting on minor football, uneducated guesswork for the oddsmakers. Lord knows the odds they quoted for Brexit, Trump or Maypocaylspe in the last year alone.
Would an election be held on the basis of the 2016 constituencies or have the revisions of the Electoral Commission come into play?
Quote from: mrhardyannual on November 24, 2017, 11:55:20 PM
Would an election be held on the basis of the 2016 constituencies or have the revisions of the Electoral Commission come into play?
I heard from an FG organiser that he thinks it would still be the old constituencies. The commission just makes a report and offers recommendations, they need to be ratified to actually come into effect.
An election like that would play havoc with the tickets a lot of parties were planning to run.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/i-wont-be-seeking-her-resignation-i-dont-want-her-to-offer-it-to-me-varadkar-delivers-strong-defence-of-embattled-tnaiste-at-femfest-conference-36352213.html
The old phrase "In the national interest" must apply. Frances has had her head in the trough long enough now to know how it works and what she needs to do.
And anyone who believes Mary Lou McDonald gives two damms about Sergeant McCabe should consider her attitude to the men who murdered his namesake Gerry McCabe
That was SFBML ( Sinn Féin before Mary Lou) a totally different bashte altogether ::)
Quote from: Rossfan on November 25, 2017, 03:05:51 PM
That was SFBML ( Sinn Féin before Mary Lou) a totally different bashte altogether ::)
I loved how Pearse Doherty dispensed with even the flimsiest notion that the SF leadership race was going to be run democratically and said Mary Lou would lead the party. I don't think they realise how much of a tinpot dictatorship that makes them look like. 35 years of Gerry and not a single person to oppose her? Yikes.
Quote from: Syferus on November 25, 2017, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 25, 2017, 03:05:51 PM
That was SFBML ( Sinn Féin before Mary Lou) a totally different bashte altogether ::)
I loved how Pearse Doherty dispensed with even the flimsiest notion that the SF leadership race was going to be run democratically and said Mary Lou would lead the party. I don't think they realise how much of a tinpot dictatorship that makes them look like. 35 years of Gerry and not a single person to oppose her? Yikes.
Ferriter summed up Adams very well in The Irish Times today. Adams has joined the revisionists that he railed against for years. Pity it took him so long to do so. A good few people would still be alive
Quote from: mrhardyannual on November 24, 2017, 11:55:20 PM
Would an election be held on the basis of the 2016 constituencies or have the revisions of the Electoral Commission come into play?
The new proposals haven't been adopted yet so it will be the same as 2016.
Sinn Féin have eaten into the working class vote of FF.
FF is like Dunnes Stores. SF is like Aldi plus Lidl.
The country is polarised.
Farmers with more than 100 acres, people with v neck jumpers, golf club members, professionals, club Rossie types- FG
People who envy golf club members - FF
Working class persons, people who actually get up early, people who want to nationalise golf clubs -SF
Lower grade civil servants who don't play golf but know how to organise- Labour
The Torygraph says the Fitzgerald thing might weaken Ireland in Brexit discussions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/25/irish-political-crisis-pms-political-firestorm-could-weaken/
It is subscription but the idea is straightforward.
The best chance in over 50 years to weaken Unionism. And FF would do this . FFS.
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:20:52 AM
The Torygraph says the Fitzgerald thing might weaken Ireland in Brexit discussions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/25/irish-political-crisis-pms-political-firestorm-could-weaken/
It is subscription but the idea is straightforward.
The best chance in over 50 years to weaken Unionism. And FF would do this . FFS.
Brexit talks will stumble on for far, far longer than an election would take. There really isn't much difference between an election now or in six months.
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 02:11:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:20:52 AM
The Torygraph says the Fitzgerald thing might weaken Ireland in Brexit discussions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/25/irish-political-crisis-pms-political-firestorm-could-weaken/
It is subscription but the idea is straightforward.
The best chance in over 50 years to weaken Unionism. And FF would do this . FFS.
Brexit talks will stumble on for far, far longer than an election would take. There really isn't much difference between an election now or in six months.
The UK has to sort out the border before trade talks
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 02:11:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:20:52 AM
The Torygraph says the Fitzgerald thing might weaken Ireland in Brexit discussions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/25/irish-political-crisis-pms-political-firestorm-could-weaken/
It is subscription but the idea is straightforward.
The best chance in over 50 years to weaken Unionism. And FF would do this . FFS.
Brexit talks will stumble on for far, far longer than an election would take. There really isn't much difference between an election now or in six months.
This phase of Brexit talks, scheduled to end in December, is the point of maximum Irish influence and the key moment with regards to a border/no border in the event of the UK leaving the common market.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 26, 2017, 03:08:48 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 02:11:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:20:52 AM
The Torygraph says the Fitzgerald thing might weaken Ireland in Brexit discussions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/25/irish-political-crisis-pms-political-firestorm-could-weaken/
It is subscription but the idea is straightforward.
The best chance in over 50 years to weaken Unionism. And FF would do this . FFS.
Brexit talks will stumble on for far, far longer than an election would take. There really isn't much difference between an election now or in six months.
This phase of Brexit talks, scheduled to end in December, is the point of maximum Irish influence and the key moment with regards to a border/no border in the event of the UK leaving the common market.
There's probably going to be a border of some form whether we stick election posters up or not next month. The idea that this materially effects those discussions is column inch filler and little else. This was always a fragile arrangement.
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 03:13:14 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 26, 2017, 03:08:48 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 02:11:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:20:52 AM
The Torygraph says the Fitzgerald thing might weaken Ireland in Brexit discussions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/25/irish-political-crisis-pms-political-firestorm-could-weaken/
It is subscription but the idea is straightforward.
The best chance in over 50 years to weaken Unionism. And FF would do this . FFS.
Brexit talks will stumble on for far, far longer than an election would take. There really isn't much difference between an election now or in six months.
This phase of Brexit talks, scheduled to end in December, is the point of maximum Irish influence and the key moment with regards to a border/no border in the event of the UK leaving the common market.
There's probably going to be a border of some form whether we stick election posters up or not next month. The idea that this materially effects those discussions is column inch filler and little else. This was always a fragile arrangement.
That''s like saying it doesn't matter if f the full back line have their eye on the ball when it arrives in from midfield. Politics is about timing
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 03:25:31 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 03:13:14 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 26, 2017, 03:08:48 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 02:11:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:20:52 AM
The Torygraph says the Fitzgerald thing might weaken Ireland in Brexit discussions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/25/irish-political-crisis-pms-political-firestorm-could-weaken/
It is subscription but the idea is straightforward.
The best chance in over 50 years to weaken Unionism. And FF would do this . FFS.
Brexit talks will stumble on for far, far longer than an election would take. There really isn't much difference between an election now or in six months.
This phase of Brexit talks, scheduled to end in December, is the point of maximum Irish influence and the key moment with regards to a border/no border in the event of the UK leaving the common market.
There's probably going to be a border of some form whether we stick election posters up or not next month. The idea that this materially effects those discussions is column inch filler and little else. This was always a fragile arrangement.
That''s like saying it doesn't matter if f the full back line have their eye on the ball when it arrives in from midfield. Politics is about timing
Barring the UK offering a sweetheart deal, and with the DUP having them by the balls that's extremely unlikely, what magic do you think would be happening next month without an election? Because the supernatural is about the only thing that will make a difference.
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:14:16 AM
Sinn Féin have eaten into the working class vote of FF.
FF is like Dunnes Stores. SF is like Aldi plus Lidl.
The country is polarised.
Farmers with more than 100 acres, people with v neck jumpers, golf club members, professionals, club Rossie types- FG
People who envy golf club members - FF
Working class persons, people who actually get up early, people who want to nationalise golf clubs -SF
Lower grade civil servants who don't play golf but know how to organise- Labour
Any SF that has ever called to my house weren't workers, in actual fact they were more than happy to mope about in their tracksuits all day long. So to say that SF voters are people who get up early, well that's complete BS.
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:14:16 AM
Sinn Féin have eaten into the working class vote of FF.
FF is like Dunnes Stores. SF is like Aldi plus Lidl.
The country is polarised.
Farmers with more than 100 acres, people with v neck jumpers, golf club members, professionals, club Rossie types- FG
People who envy golf club members - FF
Working class persons, people who actually get up early, people who want to nationalise golf clubs -SF
Lower grade civil servants who don't play golf but know how to organise- Labour
Which category to do the majority of the 35% odd that don't vote fall into?
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 26, 2017, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:14:16 AM
Sinn Féin have eaten into the working class vote of FF.
FF is like Dunnes Stores. SF is like Aldi plus Lidl.
The country is polarised.
Farmers with more than 100 acres, people with v neck jumpers, golf club members, professionals, club Rossie types- FG
People who envy golf club members - FF
Working class persons, people who actually get up early, people who want to nationalise golf clubs -SF
Lower grade civil servants who don't play golf but know how to organise- Labour
Which category to do the majority of the 35% odd that don't vote fall into?
Dole/kids who don't yet realise voting matters.
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 06:04:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 26, 2017, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:14:16 AM
Sinn Féin have eaten into the working class vote of FF.
FF is like Dunnes Stores. SF is like Aldi plus Lidl.
The country is polarised.
Farmers with more than 100 acres, people with v neck jumpers, golf club members, professionals, club Rossie types- FG
People who envy golf club members - FF
Working class persons, people who actually get up early, people who want to nationalise golf clubs -SF
Lower grade civil servants who don't play golf but know how to organise- Labour
Which category to do the majority of the 35% odd that don't vote fall into?
Dole/kids who don't yet realise voting matters.
Doles generally vote for the shinners. That's the case where I live. They even canvass for them.
Quote from: LooseCannon on November 26, 2017, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 26, 2017, 06:04:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 26, 2017, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 26, 2017, 06:14:16 AM
Sinn Féin have eaten into the working class vote of FF.
FF is like Dunnes Stores. SF is like Aldi plus Lidl.
The country is polarised.
Farmers with more than 100 acres, people with v neck jumpers, golf club members, professionals, club Rossie types- FG
People who envy golf club members - FF
Working class persons, people who actually get up early, people who want to nationalise golf clubs -SF
Lower grade civil servants who don't play golf but know how to organise- Labour
Which category to do the majority of the 35% odd that don't vote fall into?
Dole/kids who don't yet realise voting matters.
Doles generally vote for the shinners. That's the case where I live. They even canvass for them.
I'm sure they canvass for it but a lot at that level don't care to vote in the first place. I have no respect for people who choose to not vote but still bitch and whine about x, y and z being wrong in the country.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1127/923103-costello-high-court/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1127/923103-costello-high-court/)
Joe Costello (Lab) seeks to prohibit an election being held before constituency revisions adopted
I'm guessing she royally fcuked now?
https://twitter.com/sarahbardon/status/935217890969767937
More tweeted on that timeline..
Quote from: Boycey on November 27, 2017, 07:13:35 PM
I'm guessing she royally fcuked now?
https://twitter.com/sarahbardon/status/935217890969767937
More tweeted on that timeline..
Syferus won't be best pleased!
Assuming there is an election, when will it be?
Christ Fitzgerald has zero credibility left, shoukd be dumped for stupidity as well as misinformation
There goes her Presidential ambitions
QuoteAssuming there is an election, when will it be?
December 21st. But I'd be expecting to awake to news tomorrow that she's done the honourable thing and resigned.
Quote from: balladmaker on November 28, 2017, 12:29:36 AM
QuoteAssuming there is an election, when will it be?
December 21st. But I'd be expecting to awake to news tomorrow that she's done the honourable thing and resigned.
But Leo has defended her through the whole episode when her position is now exposed as untenable. Surely Leo's ass is also now in the bacon slicer
Quote from: Mayo Border on November 28, 2017, 01:12:28 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on November 28, 2017, 12:29:36 AM
QuoteAssuming there is an election, when will it be?
December 21st. But I'd be expecting to awake to news tomorrow that she's done the honourable thing and resigned.
But Leo has defended her through the whole episode when her position is now exposed as untenable. Surely Leo's ass is also now in the bacon slicer
amidst all his spin, smile and tweeting he seems to have forgotten the survival instincts of all leaders that there is always a bus to throw somebody else under, went out on a limb on this one and could come unstuck
I expected Fitzgerald to announce over the weekend that she'd **"step aside " temporarily till the Tribunal dealt with the issue in January.
** a much used phrase in the closing days of the Haughey era😁
The 'party of law and order' are having a real job dealing with law and order in this country at the minute.
Fitzgerald to resign.
Panic over.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2017, 11:59:33 AM
Fitzgerald to resign.
Panic over.
I wonder what sort of payoff she got.Power is fascinating.
Last week we had a delayed resignation in Zimbabwe.
MONDAY
Zimbabwe's ongoing crisis descended into outright chaos on Sunday after president Robert Mugabe failed to announce his resignation as widely expected in a national address on live television.
Instead, in a rambling 30 minute address, Mugabe offered no concessions to his critics, the tens of thousands who marched calling for his resignation or the army commanders who led the military takeover last week.
Robert Mugabe stuns Zimbabwe by failing to quit in televised address – live
Read more
Instead, the 93-year-old autocrat said that "we cannot be guided by bitterness or revengefulness which would not makes us any better ... Zimbabweans" and said that he would preside over a special congress of the ruling Zanu-PF party scheduled for next month – suggesting he has no immediate intention of stepping down.
Advertisement
Mugabe, who repeatedly cited the legacy of Zimbabwe's brutal liberations wars of the 1970s, said he believed that the military "operation" launched last Tuesday by army commanders was motivated by "a deep patriotic concern for the stability of the nation" and "did not amount to a threat to our well-cherished constitutional order".
"I am aware that many developments have occurred in the party, given the failings of the past, and anger they might have triggered in some quarters .... [but] I am confident that from tonight our whole nation will put shoulder to the wheel," Mugabe said.
THURSDAY
Robert Mugabe and his wife will receive a "golden handshake" worth many millions of dollars as part of a deal negotiated before the resignation of the ageing autocrat last week. The exact sums to be paid to the former president and his wife Grace are still unclear, though one senior ruling party official with direct knowledge of the agreement said the total would not be less than $10m.
The official said that Mugabe, who has been granted immunity from prosecution and a guarantee that no action will be taken against his family's extensive business interests, would receive a "cash payment of $5m" immediately, with more paid in coming months.
Mugabe's 37-year rule left Zimbabwe with a worthless currency, massive debts, an impoverished population and an estimated unemployment rate of more than 80%. Roads are rutted, many rural communities have no electricity, education is basic and healthcare almost non-existent. A life expectancy of 60 is one of the lowest in the world.
Grace Mugabe was called "Gucci Grace" in Zimbabwe for her lavish spending. The former secretary, who married the president in 1996, recently bought millions of dollars worth of property and luxury cars in South Africa. Her eldest son, 25-year-old Bellarmine Chatunga, recently enraged Zimbabweans by posting a clip on social media taken in a well-known Johannesburg nightclub showing him pouring a £200 bottle of champagne over a £45,000 watch on a night out in South Africa, boasting that "daddy runs the whole country".
The deal also extends to the Mugabes' wide business interests, which include a series of dairy farms, and those of his extended family. "None of this will be [seized] or in any way molested," said the official involved in the negotiations. The difficulties of drawing up a list of the many assets to be covered by the agreement contributed to the delay in Mugabe's resignation, which had been widely expected as early as last Sunday, he said.
I wonder was there any pressure on Ms Fitz from the EU. It is not every day that the UK is on its knees.
She can always go back to her previous work. The country badly needs more social workers
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
I wonder was there any pressure on Ms Fitz from the EU. It is not every day that the UK is on its knees.
Was this thought so important that it needed its own post?
Fitz was gone the moment more proof was discovered.
She should be jailed. Leo defending her to the hilt should do the honourable thing and resign.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 28, 2017, 01:13:32 PM
She should be jailed. Leo defending her to the hilt should do the honourable thing and resign.
He was the one who ordered the review of DoJ documents that finished her off ffs. Go back to sleep if you think he needs to resign Farr.
Syf,
one could debate that it was Miceal Martin who ordered leo to carry out the DOJ search.
fair dues to the DOJ official who lined Alan Kelly up with the information initially
Quote from: Syferus on November 28, 2017, 01:10:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
I wonder was there any pressure on Ms Fitz from the EU. It is not every day that the UK is on its knees.
Was this thought so important that it needed its own post?
Fitz was gone the moment more proof was discovered.
Syf, the EU 26 have been brought around to the Irish position on the border after considerable diplomatic heavy lifting.
FF bring up a problem and the Govt is wobbly. The Brits are all over the place. Do you honestly think the EU were just waiting for an election?
Quote from: Orchard park on November 28, 2017, 02:14:20 PM
Syf,
one could debate that it was Miceal Martin who ordered leo to carry out the DOJ search.
fair dues to the DOJ official who lined Alan Kelly up with the information initially
Then 'one' would be lying.
Quote from: Orchard park on November 28, 2017, 02:14:20 PM
fair dues to the DOJ official who lined Alan Kelly up with the information initially
Indeed. Kelly seemed well fed on the matter alright.
Poor Syfīn's Blue Shirt must be chokin' him these last few days.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 28, 2017, 03:23:07 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on November 28, 2017, 02:14:20 PM
fair dues to the DOJ official who lined Alan Kelly up with the information initially
Indeed. Kelly seemed well fed on the matter alright.
Poor Syfīn's Blue Shirt must be chokin' him these last few days.
Never voted for one. It sucks when reality ruins your quips, though you must be well used to it by now.
Quote from: Syferus on November 28, 2017, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on November 28, 2017, 02:14:20 PM
Syf,
one could debate that it was Miceal Martin who ordered leo to carry out the DOJ search.
fair dues to the DOJ official who lined Alan Kelly up with the information initially
Then 'one' would be lying.
n the political journalists dont know what went on in the meetings between leo and micheal, you know an awful lot......
SPOOFER
Quote from: Orchard park on November 28, 2017, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 28, 2017, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Orchard park on November 28, 2017, 02:14:20 PM
Syf,
one could debate that it was Miceal Martin who ordered leo to carry out the DOJ search.
fair dues to the DOJ official who lined Alan Kelly up with the information initially
Then 'one' would be lying.
n the political journalists dont know what went on in the meetings between leo and micheal, you know an awful lot......
SPOOFER
Calm down. It's ok to admit you were wrong.
Prove that one cant debate that Martin ordered Leo to have all papers released........
I didn't state he did, I stated one could debate the point.
so a little manners and back to the Junior cert study
She stepped down "for the sake of the country'. A martyr for our times.
An intellectual powerhouse gone from office. We should all weep tonight.
Its allright. Simon Harris says she did nothing wrong.
Quote from: Avondhu star on November 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PM
Its allright. Simon Harris says she did nothing wrong.
Missed his vocation should be an undertaker