Hi now that the "Winter talk "is upon us any ideas of rule changes that the GAA should introduce to make the game better .
The open hand pass looks ridiculous. Bring us back to when it was fist passes only.
Accurate time keeping and no more of the "at least 2 minutes" crap that is rolled out at the end of most games and half times.
Whatever rules are needed to allow natural footballers to prevail over lesser talented individuals whose only aim is to prevent natural footballers from playing. If we dont act then the game will be ruined by the likes of Donegal and Tyrone
(http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/ee/e7/78/583ed3b11f972936baa8068f05f06b06858cad3af3/INPHO_00544762.jpg)
(http://ssl.utvinternet.com/sportingvisions/imgdir/102690556/kevin-hughes.jpg)
Talent will out. We shouldn't legislate against innovation, even if the aesthetics of that innovation don't appeal to all*. Donegal and Tyrone play by the same rule book as everybody else, including all natural footballers. If they can't beat 'lesser talented' players then perhaps we need to redefine what talent is as I expect players and teams to be able to adapt for what's put in front of them and find a way to beat with. If every team played the same way, the sport would get samey very fast. One of the appeals of the Championship is the different kind of tests teams must go through before a champion is crowned.
*Personally I like to watch free flowing attacking Football with accurate shooting but I appreciate the strengths of defence oriented teams.
The only rule thats needed is a rule to stop fuckwits thinking they can improve the game by changing its rules all the time.
Leave our game alone fuckwits.
number of handpasses as to happen. And will happen based on what I've heard. Donegal will have to learn to kick the ball soon.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 01, 2011, 11:30:38 AM
The only rule thats needed is a rule to stop fuckwits thinking they can improve the game by changing its rules all the time.
Leave our game alone fuckwits.
Clearly you did not watch donegal play Olympic handball all summer. The amount of hand passes is number one on my list. Does this make me a f wit?
Get rid of the Square Ball rule.
The problem with getting rid of the square ball rule is that it could really unbalance the game. The rule is clearly flawed, no question, but if it's removed there needs to be some other changed made to try and adapt for it.
Of course I saw Donegal this summer Mannix.
I've also seen enough TG4 Gold to know that Kerry spent their "golden years" handpassing other teams into submission. This is the nature of football?
You know happens? Other teams come along with a different strategy, and football changes to adapt.
teams will have to adapt wobbler because a rule will happen soon. And not before time in my view.
Wrong Indiana.
Teams will adapt because the levels of commitment required to play defensive football bring no fun, and so far, little reward. There aren't enough players in the country interested in playing such a system for it be able to flourish.
Five years ago, Jose Mourinho's 'defence first' tactic was being mooted as the way forward for soccer. Then Barcelona came along.
I really wish people you had enough confidence in our game to allow it to peak and trough organically. Fast forwarding 'fixes' through the rules brings nothing but confusion and disenchantment.
there is no fix wobbler this time and the stats back it up. Hand-passing is getting more prevalent year on year. Sometimes drastic action is needed.
Handpassing is not an illness on the game though Indiana. The 'fact' that it's on the rise doesn't mean anything. Most teams still use handpassing to release an attack and not slow things down.
Give me a well worked handpassing move any day ahead if an aimless hoof towards a full forward line.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 01, 2011, 01:33:46 PM
Handpassing is not an illness on the game though Indiana. The 'fact' that it's on the rise doesn't mean anything. Most teams still use handpassing to release an attack and not slow things down.
Give me a well worked handpassing move any day ahead if an aimless hoof towards a full forward line.
Ban kicking and bring back the "throw goals" of the Spillane era , abolish the 4 step rule and stop all tackling ... ::)
I believe there will be a limit to the number of consecutive handpasses , while the square ball thing needs to go back to the trial of 2 years ago. Also throw points should be abolished , independent time keeping witha public clock and the remaining rules NEED TO BE ENFORCED.
E.G 4 steps , ball must travel 13 metres from a free before it's in play , frees from the hand to be taken from the right place - linesman should be asked to watch this and up their flag when ground stealing occurs. Shoulder to shoulde rto be allowed even if a man falls and
The argument that there is 'no fix' is too fatalistic and really underestimates the capabilities of those developing teams for league and championship campaigns. Catenaccio in soccer in the 1960s was eventually solved, likewsie the swarms used by Tyrone & Dublin, the 45-45 version of it used by Donegal, and pretty much every other strategy has or will be beaten by a different tactic.
Organic development of the game, allowing those managing and playing to innovate is better for the long term development of the sport rather than constant tinkering once something new and scary appears.
The last time they restricted hand passing, down to three consecutive, in the league in the mid-90s, Donegal and Derry reached the league final!
Who the f**k wants to watch four handpasses then an aimless panic punt to no one in particular up field (and this will happen to all teams)? There is plenty of that shite to see on reruns on TG4.
Quote from: emmetryan on October 01, 2011, 01:50:15 PM
The argument that there is 'no fix' is too fatalistic and really underestimates the capabilities of those developing teams for league and championship campaigns. Catenaccio in soccer in the 1960s was eventually solved, likewsie the swarms used by Tyrone & Dublin, the 45-45 version of it used by Donegal, and pretty much every other strategy has or will be beaten by a different tactic.
Organic development of the game, allowing those managing and playing to innovate is better for the long term development of the sport rather than constant tinkering once something new and scary appears.
The back pass to the keeper in soccer was abolished by a rule change was it not? Rugby has made numerous rule changes to improve the game. The game must be attractive and exciting or we lose tv revenue and even worse we will lose the young people as the competition is getting tougher with other sports.
Imo, the following rules would help....
- 3 hand passes then ball must be kicked forward.
- mark for fielding a kick out between 45's
- timing taken away from ref like in rugby or ladies football.
Those would make a big difference
Leave it be, if it's not broke don't fix it. Any potential hand-pass rule = complete and utter bullshit.
mylestheslasher - Changing a rule after seeing an abject failure to adapt over several decades is different to the knee jerk response of what is less than 10 years (with the Donegal approach, literally 1).
In the two most significant changes in soccer history, the abandoning of the backpass and the reduction of third last defender to second last defender with offside, it was based on a massive sample over time.
My biggest gripe with Rugby is the frequency of rule changes which have radical impacts year to year on how the game is played without forcing teams to develop counter strategies.
Teams, the good teams in particular that you refer to, should be given ample opportunity to adapt. With time we should see more variety in the game, different teams trying different methods. What you call negative play could have long term benefits for the attacking side of the sport as teams look for new ways to overcome it.
If you try to beat a team by copying its approach entirely you will always be at a disadvantage as the other guys knows what he's doing better than you but if you work from your own strengths and try something different the potential for success is greater as your opponenent must now work out your game. That's what McGuinness realised with Donegal this season. He's not the first manager to have adopted that mentality and he won't be the last.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 01, 2011, 02:27:50 PM
Leave it be, if it's not broke don't fix it. Any potential hand-pass rule = complete and utter bullshit.
Fixed !!!
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2011, 02:01:31 PM
The last time they restricted hand passing, down to three consecutive, in the league in the mid-90s, Donegal and Derry reached the league final!
Who the f**k wants to watch four handpasses then an aimless panic punt to no one in particular up field (and this will happen to all teams)? There is plenty of that shite to see on reruns on TG4.
simply will force teams to perfect their kicking and for players to make better runs. some teams are obviously afraid of this.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 01, 2011, 02:27:50 PM
Leave it be, if it's not broke don't fix it. Any potential hand-pass rule = complete and utter bullshit.
Yes. As much fun as watching a game with everyone running around counting to four sounds, I can't help but think that it would look completely ridiculous.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 01, 2011, 03:30:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2011, 02:01:31 PM
The last time they restricted hand passing, down to three consecutive, in the league in the mid-90s, Donegal and Derry reached the league final!
Who the f**k wants to watch four handpasses then an aimless panic punt to no one in particular up field (and this will happen to all teams)? There is plenty of that shite to see on reruns on TG4.
simply will force teams to perfect their kicking and for players to make better runs. some teams are obviously afraid of this.
Or some teams, like all others, want to play to their strengths, playing the type of football their players have grown up with. There hasn't been a word about changing the handpass rule in years and if Donegal hadn't had the success they did this season, there still wouldn't be a word about it. Kerry handpass plenty too, as do lots of other counties. This is all about the mass defending, which Dublin themselves use successfully, so it comes obviously down to degree. Why not restrict the number of defenders? Make it man on man. It would be a more worthy trial than the handpass one, which has been tried and failed before (coincidentally or not, after Donegal and Derry's success), and will so again. PLreferably, they'll just restrict themselves to sensible issues such as the square ball rule.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 01, 2011, 03:30:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2011, 02:01:31 PM
The last time they restricted hand passing, down to three consecutive, in the league in the mid-90s, Donegal and Derry reached the league final!
Who the f**k wants to watch four handpasses then an aimless panic punt to no one in particular up field (and this will happen to all teams)? There is plenty of that shite to see on reruns on TG4.
simply will force teams to perfect their kicking and for players to make better runs. some teams are obviously afraid of this.
The 4 hanpasses is not a target, its a maximum. Who wants to watch a team do 20 5 yard handpasses over and back across the field and go nowhere. Not me and bot the majority of supporters imo.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 01, 2011, 11:30:38 AM
The only rule thats needed is a rule to stop fuckwits thinking they can improve the game by changing its rules all the time.
Leave our game alone fuckwits.
Indeed. Leave those lateral point posts in place and keep goals as outnumbering any number of points.
What have youse got against handpassing? As long as it's a clear striking action I don't see what the big deal is. I've seen games played with predominantly handpassing used to move the ball up the field and it's great to watch.
Agreed; a nicely worked handpassing move is great stuff to see. No idea why everyone is so worked up about it.
Would the name of the game not give ye handpass lovers a little clue as to why so many people are against its overuse. ;)
Sure hurling could be a "great game" too if they only stopped using them oul' stick things.
they should make the rule that a free stands no matter what,you often see players being fouled and then he retaliates and then its a throw up
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2011, 04:05:34 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on October 01, 2011, 03:30:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 01, 2011, 02:01:31 PM
The last time they restricted hand passing, down to three consecutive, in the league in the mid-90s, Donegal and Derry reached the league final!
Who the f**k wants to watch four handpasses then an aimless panic punt to no one in particular up field (and this will happen to all teams)? There is plenty of that shite to see on reruns on TG4.
simply will force teams to perfect their kicking and for players to make better runs. some teams are obviously afraid of this.
Or some teams, like all others, want to play to their strengths, playing the type of football their players have grown up with. There hasn't been a word about changing the handpass rule in years and if Donegal hadn't had the success they did this season, there still wouldn't be a word about it. Kerry handpass plenty too, as do lots of other counties. This is all about the mass defending, which Dublin themselves use successfully, so it comes obviously down to degree. Why not restrict the number of defenders? Make it man on man. It would be a more worthy trial than the handpass one, which has been tried and failed before (coincidentally or not, after Donegal and Derry's success), and will so again. PLreferably, they'll just restrict themselves to sensible issues such as the square ball rule.
to retain the game as
foot
ball. its necessary.
Max 3 handpasses in a row, might be very difficult to govern.
2 refs to ensure there is always a referee with the play.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2011, 05:12:49 PM
Would the name of the game not give ye handpass lovers a little clue as to why so many people are against its overuse. ;)
Sure hurling could be a "great game" too if they only stopped using them oul' stick things.
There's about 7 flavours of football in this world, only one of them predominantly uses the foot to deliver the ball. There's hardly any kicking in Rugby or American Football but they're still types of 'football.' The name of the sport derives from the medieval pastimes they evolved from. They were played by the common people
on foot as opposed to the games that were played by the nobles on horseback.
I don't think hurling is ever going to evolve into a predominantly handpassing game, there's just too many advantages to using the stick.
I don't think its the hand pass that annoys people. It's the 5 yard flicks over and back without going forward. It s boring and ugly imo.
I think Hawkeye can count handpasses.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 01, 2011, 12:59:10 PM
Wrong Indiana.
Teams will adapt because the levels of commitment required to play defensive football bring no fun, and so far, little reward. There aren't enough players in the country interested in playing such a system for it be able to flourish.
Five years ago, Jose Mourinho's 'defence first' tactic was being mooted as the way forward for soccer. Then Barcelona came along.
I really wish people you had enough confidence in our game to allow it to peak and trough organically. Fast forwarding 'fixes' through the rules brings nothing but confusion and disenchantment.
Couldn't agree more.
What will happen if the limited hand pass rule thing comes into force is that other teams will become more defensive knowing that a kick will be coming after the limited amount of handpasses or you will then see tokenistic kick passes so that the handpassing can start again. What is wrong with a team working the ball out of defence with the hand. Its good football!! It would be wrong to coach a kid who is under pressure after their teams 3rd or 4th handpass that he has to kick it. What if there is no kick pass on and that the right thing to do is a handpass??
Teams not in possession would find a way to manipulate that rule and to use it to regain possession. There would then be more swarms! A daft and a lazy idea that is simply pondering to the wishes of certain media critics. Not thought through and i believe it would do worse to the game.
If I had to make some small technical changes, the time clock / buzzer should be introduced to take that responsibility out of the referee's hands. Any time i have refereed, it was the thing i hated most.
Also leave the mark to the Aussie Rules. The game would become far too technical with management simply sticking their 8 foot player on top of the smallest man in the forward line and it would become a hoofing session instead of seeing goo interplay. As a 5 foot 9 man, I have often marked taller people than me. Their strength was their height possible and mines was my ability to 'stop him catching' or by planning my tackle for when he did catch it, surely i shouldnt be getting punished because my man is taller than me.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2011, 10:04:50 PM
I think Hawkeye can count handpasses.
But they can't do hawkeye in Mallusk when Ardoyne are playing St Galls 3rds. The rules should be the same for all age groups and levels not just for our elite.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 01, 2011, 10:04:50 PM
I think Hawkeye can count handpasses.
You're unbridled enthusiasm for Hawkeye won't make it happen any sooner.
its interesting that most of the objections are northern based.
Here's another thing about the blanket defence. Armagh came up with a solution to it years ago, I don't know if it's still in use or not. Your man goes up for a high catch, and already he's surrounded by opponents. But instead of catching it he just deflects it down to his man who's waiting in the wings, a man that became loose because his opponent was getting into the swarm.
If you don't like the blanket defence, use a bit of imagination and devise a way around it! Don't go crying to mummy looking to change the rules!
I'll console myself Eamon that we have the all-ireland title sitting in Dublin.
And we needed to be able to kick the ball over the bar to do so.
get rid of the square ball rule
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 01, 2011, 08:54:36 PM
There's about 7 flavours of football in this world, only one of them predominantly uses the foot to deliver the ball. There's hardly any kicking in Rugby or American Football but they're still types of 'football.' The name of the sport derives from the medieval pastimes they evolved from. They were played by the common people on foot as opposed to the games that were played by the nobles on horseback.
So Polo is a form of Arseball?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 01, 2011, 02:11:46 PM
Imo, the following rules would help....
- 3 hand passes then ball must be kicked forward.
- mark for fielding a kick out between 45's
- timing taken away from ref like in rugby or ladies football.
Those would make a big difference
Agre with 2 and 3 but no of handpasses is impossible to enforce. Referees have enough to do without counting handpasses. Refs losing count would lead to more controversial incidents.
Sin bin and retrospective bans for players faking injury/diving should be looked at also.
Possibly 2 points for scores from outside 45 if they want to encourage kicking.
Quote from: INDIANA on October 02, 2011, 12:14:49 AM
I'll console myself Eamon that we have the all-ireland title sitting in Dublin.
And we needed to be able to kick the ball over the bar to do so.
Yeah, by your goalkeeper ;D
handpassing doesn't annoy me. Maybe limiting the number of players in defense.
More importantly, lets bring back the hitting into football. It's too soft. lets allow shoulder tackles to stand (as they do in hurling)
I think they shud introduce de Haka before the start of matches. It would be great for de crowd if de referee his assistants and his umpires all did a Haka rendition along with say the commentators like Marty Morrisey an Joe Brolly.
De northies cud sing flower of scotland instead if they wanted to keep the unionlists happy. No?
People talk about Cluxton and yes it was a superbly hit free kick under sever pressure. Isnt it a shame that we dont see more of this - Im not talking about the goalkeeper Im talking about the type of kick. The kick out of the hands should only be used outside the 40 or for quick frees. The free from the hands is an ugly thing in comparison to the majesty of a well struck placed ball. Isnt it sad that Cluxton was the only man on the all ireland champions line up capable of taking a controlled kick off the ground, or alternatively isnt it great that Gilroy realised the importance of the controlled kick off the ground. Maybe coaches will appreciate and develop the place kicker again after Cluxtons great strike brought the ultimate success. I think when we watched the great kicking of Ogara over the weekend we can see how we have let the art die in Gaelic Football.
As for Cluston what a season it shows how much you can get out of life if you put in the dedication and stay focussed and most importantly thump a soccor player on the way there.
Quote from: rrhf on October 03, 2011, 08:59:19 AM
Isnt it sad that Cluxton was the only man on the all ireland champions line up capable of taking a controlled kick off the ground
Extremely sad. Lie awake at night sad.
Scrap the square ball rule.
Clarify what constitutes a 2 (many) man tackle...some refs seem to have a different interpretation to this than others.
Allow physical tackles.
I think it's already a rule, but players should be booked for diving.
Booking should result in a 5 min sin-bin.
Tyrone should be banned ;)
1. Sin bin
2. Bring in a f**** clock like they have in ice hockey
3. Give bonus points for teams that can score in a move from the backs in less than 20 seconds
4. Overhaul the suspension system
5 Do something about the weaker counties
Quote from: rrhf on October 03, 2011, 08:59:19 AM
People talk about Cluxton and yes it was a superbly hit free kick under sever pressure. Isnt it a shame that we dont see more of this - Im not talking about the goalkeeper Im talking about the type of kick. The kick out of the hands should only be used outside the 40 or for quick frees. The free from the hands is an ugly thing in comparison to the majesty of a well struck placed ball. Isnt it sad that Cluxton was the only man on the all ireland champions line up capable of taking a controlled kick off the ground, or alternatively isnt it great that Gilroy realised the importance of the controlled kick off the ground. Maybe coaches will appreciate and develop the place kicker again after Cluxtons great strike brought the ultimate success. I think when we watched the great kicking of Ogara over the weekend we can see how we have let the art die in Gaelic Football.
As for Cluston what a season it shows how much you can get out of life if you put in the dedication and stay focussed and most importantly thump a soccor player on the way there.
Isn't it sad that Brian Sheehan has to take the long range free kicks off the ground for Kerry has he has the best chance of scoring?
Isn't it sad that Ronan O'Gara has to take the kicks for Ireland because none of the other 14 players could hit a barn door if they tried?
I watched celebrity bainisteoir last night and St Pats Donabate had two lads taking frees off the ground, one with the left, one with the right.
They were both very accurate.
Maybe this is just another one of those manufactured problems we seem to love so much in the GAA.
1. More consistent Refereeing.
2. Bookings for Playacting (as they do in Soccer).
3. A Rugby-Style Video Judge for debatable Goals (ie. Squareball).
4. A 'Third Choice' kit for Clubs so that Ulster Club Championship games involving two clubs with similar kits won't have to revert to County Colours.
5. A Universal Insurance Policy for Club Footballers. Let's face it, the GAA CAN afford it (especially since Chirsty Cooney is high up the echelons of VHI).
i would change the way suspensions are dealt with. Move towards a games missed based as opposed to weeks suspension. I would not abolish the square ball rule, i would simply revert to the umpires as the adjudicators on it. I would also increase the powers of the umpires and linesmen and make them "assistant" referees as such. Any change to the handpass rule will not happen.
Quote from: ExcellentDriver on October 03, 2011, 12:49:58 PM
5. A Universal Insurance Policy for Club Footballers. Let's face it, the GAA CAN afford it (especially since Chirsty Cooney is high up the echelons of VHI).
He's high up in VHI & Fas?
fit refs that are monitored,not ones that just stand in the middle of the pitch
Quote from: rrhf on October 03, 2011, 08:59:19 AM
The free from the hands is an ugly thing in comparison to the majesty of a well struck placed ball.
The free taken from the ground is a minute spent bending down to place the ball on exactly the right blade of grass, rotating it backwards a few times, getting up, bending back down to move it slightly again, then taking half a dozen steps back from it, looking up at the posts, taking a big deep breath and puffing the cheeks out like your life depends on this kick, then dancing your way in with tiny little steps before kicking it wide.
Gimme the free from the hands any day.
What you are all missing here with your 4th referee, your hawk eye and your video replays is that this will only be available in Croke Park and in turn only really available for county teams.
Rules have to be across the board. Leave the games alone, very little wrong with them. Just technical stuff needed to change like the timekeeping etc.
don't like the professional foul on a player in on goal. punishment is lenient for that. + there's way too much timewasting as has been mentioned and hawk eye for championship games as most ire seems to be when there's a lot at stake.
Most of these comments are surely WUM?
If not, leave our game alone fuckwits.
Quote from: cadence on October 03, 2011, 09:37:41 PM
don't like the professional foul on a player in on goal. punishment is lenient for that. + there's way too much timewasting as has been mentioned and hawk eye for championship games as most ire seems to be when there's a lot at stake.
A lot at stake? But to the player playing in the Intermediate Longford championship quarter final without the benefit of the aforementioned ideas, there is also a lot at stake is there not? The same rules should apply from Under 12 to the Senior Intercounty final and no exceptions should be made for the elite.
Quote from: 4father on October 03, 2011, 09:48:28 PM
Quote from: cadence on October 03, 2011, 09:37:41 PM
don't like the professional foul on a player in on goal. punishment is lenient for that. + there's way too much timewasting as has been mentioned and hawk eye for championship games as most ire seems to be when there's a lot at stake.
A lot at stake? But to the player playing in the Intermediate Longford championship quarter final without the benefit of the aforementioned ideas, there is also a lot at stake is there not? The same rules should apply from Under 12 to the Senior Intercounty final and no exceptions should be made for the elite.
I don't get that logic.
There is no TMO in club Rugby yet it functions fine at the highest level.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 03, 2011, 09:44:50 PM
Most of these comments are surely WUM?
If not, leave our game alone fuckwits.
(http://sportsfantalking.com/files/2011/08/hawk_eye.jpg)
1. Mark for a kickout caught between the two 45s.
2. All frees inside 45 taken off the ground.
3. Time keeping taken away from refs.
4. Sin bin for cynical fouling or anything that constitutes a yellow card ie. not attempting to tackle the ball!
Quote from: heffo on October 03, 2011, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: 4father on October 03, 2011, 09:48:28 PM
Quote from: cadence on October 03, 2011, 09:37:41 PM
don't like the professional foul on a player in on goal. punishment is lenient for that. + there's way too much timewasting as has been mentioned and hawk eye for championship games as most ire seems to be when there's a lot at stake.
A lot at stake? But to the player playing in the Intermediate Longford championship quarter final without the benefit of the aforementioned ideas, there is also a lot at stake is there not? The same rules should apply from Under 12 to the Senior Intercounty final and no exceptions should be made for the elite.
I don't get that logic.
There is no TMO in club Rugby yet it functions fine at the highest level.
We arent rugby though, our association should not be about elitism.
Try to look at rule changes from a perspective of 'can this make officiating better' when making any rule. Introducing the likes of hawkeye for example may only work at a high level but they won't make officiating at the lower levels worse. By contrast changes to the square ball other than total removal*, make life a lot harder for those refereeing at a lower level. Improving officiating tools available at the top level that doesn't increase the burden on the lower levels seems reasonable to me.
That isn't elitism, that's just using the available resources**.
*I know total removal is an option but I'm just using a practical example.
** Emphasis on available. The Rabo/Magners whatever league in Rugby has only partial video replay usage. In some games it isn't available, such as Leinster's last two home games, whereas in others it is. Where it is available they use it.
Quote from: emmetryan on October 04, 2011, 12:29:23 AM
Try to look at rule changes from a perspective of 'can this make officiating better' when making any rule. Introducing the likes of hawkeye for example may only work at a high level but they won't make officiating at the lower levels worse. By contrast changes to the square ball other than total removal*, make life a lot harder for those refereeing at a lower level. Improving officiating tools available at the top level that doesn't increase the burden on the lower levels seems reasonable to me.
That isn't elitism, that's just using the available resources**.
*I know total removal is an option but I'm just using a practical example.
** Emphasis on available. The Rabo/Magners whatever league in Rugby has only partial video replay usage. In some games it isn't available, such as Leinster's last two home games, whereas in others it is. Where it is available they use it.
+1.
Where is it written that every single club game should have the same standards of officiating applied as in an All-Ireland final? We reserve the best referees for the All-Ireland championships, why not have the best supporting technology there too?
I think it would be a waste of money when so many clubs are struggling to.stay open at the minute. The thing is that its all of our association.
Plus how many Championship games would it be used for? Only those in Croke park which probably accounts for around 10% of Championship games
Get rid of referees. None have played the game at any important level. Most want to be noticed and a fair few are as biased as fcuk. Of course they wont be gotten rid of but they, most of them, are the single biggest cause of mayhem in the game. No consistency, no standard interpretation of whats a tackle and the biggest bugbear being, many refs sem to think that any doubt or advantage must always be given to the so called big teams.
Is Joe McQuillan still playing?
Personally, I think that introducing the Sin-bin would be the single biggest benefit to the game...well football anyway. If a yellow card meant sin-binning you're going to get a lot less cynical fouling, which results in more free flowing games, which results in blanket defence being less effective (not that I'm against blanket defence mind you). But as part of this we need clarification on what constitutes a yellow, particularly around 2-man tackles. Too many referees have their own interpretation of this.
So for me, sin-bin for a yellow and clarify what constitutes a yellow so all refs have the same clear direction as to when it's a yellow and when it's not.
this could be applied at all levels from under age to senior county without any expense and I think it would help the game.
I only mentioned the square ball thing as we came out the wrong side of it a few times this year....but I can see why the rule is there. No sure what the answer is around it. Perhaps umpires should also be referees and not the ref's son/brother/cousin/best friend and give them the authority to rule on square balls as opposed to letting a ref 50 yards away decide.
Not a rule change as such but the inter-county season needs to be condensed. 4/5 weeks to play the first round of Ulster is madness, another 4/5 weeks to finish the competition. No reason why two games can't be played on the same weekend or even same day. Same applies to all provinces.
I'd also propose some sort of sin-bin for yellow cards. Use Rugby as the template where certain offences are yellow cards or persistance team following can result in yellow cards. The great weakness for this at the minute in inconsistent refereeing and that the tackle isn't defined.
Yep, the sin-bin is a good idea.
I remember that Dublin vs. Tyrone league game in Croke Park under lights a few years ago.
Hugely entertaining, lots of scores and the crowd loved it.
A lot of that was down to the sin-bin.
Of course the 'intensity' police were on here the next day giving out. ::)
However I would tweak it slightly.
Sometimes a lad can genuinely go in for a tackle, time it badly, and end up getting a yellow.
The sin bin should be used to punish persistent fouling only otherwise players will be afraid to go in hard.
So keep the existing yellow card system for that kind of thing.
Maybe a different coloured card for the sin bin.
Magenta or turquoise for example.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 04, 2011, 01:01:37 PM
Yep, the sin-bin is a good idea.
I remember that Dublin vs. Tyrone league game in Croke Park under lights a few years ago.
Hugely entertaining, lots of scores and the crowd loved it.
A lot of that was down to the sin-bin.
Of course the 'intensity' police were on here the next day giving out. ::)
However I would tweak it slightly.
Sometimes a lad can genuinely go in for a tackle, time it badly, and end up getting a yellow.
The sin bin should be used to punish persistent fouling only otherwise players will be afraid to go in hard.
So keep the existing yellow card system for that kind of thing.
Maybe a different coloured card for the sin bin.
Magenta or turquoise for example.
Agree with this. There should be things that are direct sin binning offences, for instance a high challenge or a dangerous frontal charge. The idea persistant team fouling can be dealt with by simply warning the captain that the next player that commits a foul is sin binned no matter if it is his first or fifth foul. Designate say 7 team fouls per half and after that it is a sin bimning. Alternatively you could have a 21 yard free in front of the goals. Either way would go a long way to prevent tactical fouling.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 04, 2011, 01:01:37 PM
Yep, the sin-bin is a good idea.
I remember that Dublin vs. Tyrone league game in Croke Park under lights a few years ago.
Hugely entertaining, lots of scores and the crowd loved it.
A lot of that was down to the sin-bin.
Of course the 'intensity' police were on here the next day giving out. ::)
However I would tweak it slightly.
Sometimes a lad can genuinely go in for a tackle, time it badly, and end up getting a yellow.
The sin bin should be used to punish persistent fouling only otherwise players will be afraid to go in hard.
So keep the existing yellow card system for that kind of thing.
Maybe a different coloured card for the sin bin.
Magenta or turquoise for example.
Perhaps the old system, 2 ticks then a yellow which sin-bins you. You get a tick for any foul to remove ambiguity/interpretation for the ref. Keep it simple, a foul is a tick. 2 ticks = yellow = sin bin for 5 or 10 mins. 2 yellows and yer off.
So if you concede 2 frees you're in the sin-bin. If you concede 4 free's that's it, your off.
I think this would cut out a lot of the negative play, it doesnt meant you cant play blanket defence, but it does mean you will be less likely to stop the other team playing by fouling out the field.
Will the powers that be listen...probably not.
A time limit should be brought in for taking free kicks. When you see how much time is wasted with kick outs and frees, there's hardly half the actual 70 minutes played.
Stop the clock until the taker begins his runup.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2011, 09:28:31 PM
Stop the clock until the taker begins his runup.
What would the rule be if they forgot to restart the clock? Retake the free?
Replace the bloody ref :D
Hawkeye can ref the games.
1 Old hat this but - restrict to 4 consecutive handpasses - nightmare to ref for first year but it will change coaching habits & then be easy to implement.
2 All free kicks must travel at least 15 metres forward of the kicking position - ends the Tyrone & Donegal back-pass
3 More the 3 players into a tackle - free for the player in possession - ends the "swarm" defence which has always succeeded only because the tackling players are fouling!! - show me one example where this isnt the case.
4 All scores must be kicked except a fisted score from the ball in flight.
5 Deliberate "professional" foul in oponents's half move to a 20 metre freei-in
6 No GAA official to be allowed near a microphone - EVER!
Quote from: Leo on October 04, 2011, 11:38:09 PM
2 All free kicks must travel at least 15 metres forward of the kicking position - ends the Tyrone & Donegal back-pass
Why?
What is a professional foul? ??? ???
Quote from: tonesfirstandlast on October 05, 2011, 09:26:57 AM
What is a professional foul? ??? ???
it's when a member of the GPA makes a bad tackle
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2011, 12:51:44 AM
Quote from: Leo on October 04, 2011, 11:38:09 PM
2 All free kicks must travel at least 15 metres forward of the kicking position - ends the Tyrone & Donegal back-pass
Why?
To stop the game turning into soccer with hands
The only rule I would be in favour of is the countdown timer, with the clock being clearly visible and stopped for injuries. Let the refs ref, and the clock man keep the time. Hooter blows at the end, and ball must go dead afterwards.
Then have a limit for taking frees and kickouts so teams can't wind down the clock if they are in front by stalling on restarts.
FFS lads.
If we bring in all these new rules we'll have auxiliary referees counting the handpasses out loud, linesmen with measuring tapes and Hawkeyes 'death ray' function being used to disintegrate persistent foulers.
Next thing they'll put two bucks beside the posts to decide if ball is wide or if it's a score ::)
Quote from: Leo on October 04, 2011, 11:38:09 PM
3 More the 3 players into a tackle - free for the player in possession - ends the "swarm" defence which has always succeeded only because the tackling players are fouling!! - show me one example where this isnt the case.
Surely the solution to this is to call the foul - if there is one?
I've always thought that the idea of a sin bin was a great way of dealing with persistent fouling and would also sort out the abuse referees get from mouthy players. Would have a great impact on this part of our game i think.
One rule that does annoy me though is the fact that free kicks have to be taken from exactly the right position where the foul occurred. Now fair enough if this was in a scoring position then this rule should be enforced. However if a player is coming out of defense and they are fouled and with the momentum carrying them a few steps forward then they should be allowed to kick it from where they stopped. This means the they can take a quick free kick and continue their attack. The ref should not move the player the few or so yards back thus slowing down play and therefore giving the team that fouled the advantage . This is where tactical fouling occurs as it helps break down attacks and also helps the defending team re-group and get their shape back.
The time keeping needs to be better defined in terms of stoppages in injury time.
As for the way the game is played I think all other aspects should be left alone.
Half of you want netball, half of you want Aussie Rules.
Yis are all fuckwits.
Should be a rule wherby County Board officals are told to 'get ta f**k out of the dugout for championship games'(and made to stand there there for FBD/McKenna/etc games in Jan/Feb.
Quote from: sans pessimism on October 08, 2011, 01:58:42 PM
Should be a rule wherby County Board officals are told to 'get ta f**k out of the dugout for championship games'(and made to stand there there for FBD/McKenna/etc games in Jan/Feb.
Like this much maligned legend.
http://www.sportsfile.com/id/328835/
Quote from: thewobbler on October 07, 2011, 10:33:46 PM
Half of you want netball, half of you want Aussie Rules.
Yis are all fuckwits.
You sound like a very intelligent gentleman
Fintona, some rule changes and even core aspects of any game will change over time, in order to adapt to technology, humans advancement and just plain old improvements.
What bugs the sh1t out of me is that so many people just want to t**ker with the game all the time; it's almost a badge of honour within GAA circles to propose outlandish change to the game we all supposedly love.
It drives me nuts. Sans pessimism, at least I'm smart enough to be able to factor in the knock on effects of rule changes before proposing them. Every action has a reaction when you changes the fundamentals of a game. the overwhelming number of suggestions on this thread are simply badly conceived ideas.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 09, 2011, 08:31:42 PM
Fintona, some rule changes and even core aspects of any game will change over time, in order to adapt to technology, humans advancement and just plain old improvements.
What bugs the sh1t out of me is that so many people just want to t**ker with the game all the time; it's almost a badge of honour within GAA circles to propose outlandish change to the game we all supposedly love.
It drives me nuts. Sans pessimism, at least I'm smart enough to be able to factor in the knock on effects of rule changes before proposing them. Every action has a reaction when you changes the fundamentals of a game. the overwhelming number of suggestions on this thread are simply badly conceived ideas.
relax ol stock,its the same on every thread-bunch a guys throwin out whatever comes into their heads,not to be taken as read.Bit a crack
The Sin Bin.
Cavan lost the ladies final yesterday in no small part because of the sin binning of two players for cynical fouls.
QuoteA proposal to introduce a 'tap and go' style free in Gaelic football and hurling is a strong consideration for the GAA's high-powered playing rules committee.
The committee, which met for the third time last Thursday, are discussing the possibility of the new concept after a proposal from GPA chief executive Dessie Farrell, who is a member of the committee.
The concept is based loosely on the same facility for players in other sports such as AFL, rugby and hockey.
Farrell has a background in hockey and is understood to have based his idea on the 'autopass' which came into rule successfully in the sport in 2009.
Under the terms of what is being proposed, a player who is fouled would have the option to take a solo or 'tap and go' himself with a five-metre exclusion zone. The onus is on opponents to clear the area and failure to do so would result in stronger penalties than just the ball being moved up 10 metres. Under discussion is the possibility of awarding a 45-metre free in front of the opposing goals if the area is not cleared.
In rugby, the tapped penalty is used effectively to put opponents on the back foot. They cannot execute a tackle within 10 metres.
When a 'mark' is taken in AFL, a player must move backwards but can then go with the ball himself. This rule is also deployed in International Rules.
In Gaelic games, a player must hit a free away from the area by boot or hurl a distance of 10 metres or more.
Farrell's proposal is designed to bring more speed into the game, but doubts arise over its suitability for hurling. Allowing a player to 'tap and go' through an area that has been cleared could be an antidote for the heavy defensive orientation that some teams set up with.
Blocking the free-taker and preventing him from a quick pass allows defending teams to get numbers back fast. The current punishment of moving the ball up 10 metres scarcely acts as a deterrent and by allowing the 'autopass', the games would retain fluidity.
Future meetings may also consider the same facility from sidelines.
One of the concerns is the ability of match officials to keep pace with the game if these modifications were to be introduced.
Proposals that win approval at this committee level will be put before Central Council for further approval before they are submitted as motions to Congress.
Represent
The committee contains some high-profile names. Brian Cody and Kieran McGeeney represent managers; Farrell and Donal Og Cusack, the current chairman of the GPA, represent players; former Armagh footballer Jarlath Burns is one of those drawn from Central Council.
GAA president Christy Cooney, his successor Liam O'Neill, director general Paraic Duffy, referees chairman Mick Curley and Pat Daly, the GAA's director of games development and research, are among those involved.
They have been looking at other avenues of change and it's understood that inter-change substitutes, the scooped pass (where a player can pick up a moving ball without having to place his foot beneath it), requiring a ball to go out over an end-line before a game can conclude and an advantage rule are still being discussed.
A motion calling for an advantage rule to be introduced was tabled at a Congress in the early part of the last decade, but barely provoked a word of debate and was soundly beaten in a subsequent vote.
- Colm Keys
Tap penalty to speed up the game? Might help prevent the systematic cynical fouling that is so prevalent.
The Donegal lads will love this if it comes in.
Why don't we just change the name to rugby league and be done with it.
Finally, a good idea, this quick tap business.
It would go a long way towards getting rid of a) the deliberate slowing down of attacks, and b) the chest pumping and attempts to incite retaliation that follows on from so many frees.
Brilliant idea. Should have been introduced years ago.
Quote from: Jinxy on October 26, 2011, 01:18:51 PM
The Donegal lads will love this if it comes in.
Why don't we just change the name to rugby league and be done with it.
I would understand that consern but if introduced and then implemented well then I think it will speed up the game. If people are punished properly for trying to slow then it would improve the game.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 26, 2011, 01:18:51 PM
The Donegal lads will love this if it comes in.
Why don't we just change the name to rugby league and be done with it.
I would understand that consern but if introduced and then implemented well then I think it will speed up the game. If people are punished properly for trying to slow then it would improve the game.
Very interesting proposal. If refereed (!) as explained above then a corner forward who fouls his man and then tries to stop the 'tap and go' could concede a 45m metro free. The cynical fouling in tight games might stop then.
Quote from: muppet on October 26, 2011, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 26, 2011, 01:18:51 PM
The Donegal lads will love this if it comes in.
Why don't we just change the name to rugby league and be done with it.
I would understand that consern but if introduced and then implemented well then I think it will speed up the game. If people are punished properly for trying to slow then it would improve the game.
Very interesting proposal. If refereed (!) as explained above then a corner forward who fouls his man and then tries to stop the 'tap and go' could concede a 45m metro free. The cynical fouling in tight games might stop then.
But when would any member of the FF line commit a deliberate, cynical foul to stop the opposition building up a head of steam? Thats just silly thinking that happens :P
BTW is a metro free one that is even faster than a quick free?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 03:03:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 26, 2011, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 26, 2011, 01:18:51 PM
The Donegal lads will love this if it comes in.
Why don't we just change the name to rugby league and be done with it.
I would understand that consern but if introduced and then implemented well then I think it will speed up the game. If people are punished properly for trying to slow then it would improve the game.
Very interesting proposal. If refereed (!) as explained above then a corner forward who fouls his man and then tries to stop the 'tap and go' could concede a 45m metro free. The cynical fouling in tight games might stop then.
But when would any member of the FF line commit a deliberate, cynical foul to stop the opposition building up a head of steam? Thats just silly thinking that happens :P
Ok not all of them are fouling cynically, some are fouling thinking they are tackling legitimately. ;D
Quote from: muppet on October 26, 2011, 03:06:09 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 03:03:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 26, 2011, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 26, 2011, 01:18:51 PM
The Donegal lads will love this if it comes in.
Why don't we just change the name to rugby league and be done with it.
I would understand that consern but if introduced and then implemented well then I think it will speed up the game. If people are punished properly for trying to slow then it would improve the game.
Very interesting proposal. If refereed (!) as explained above then a corner forward who fouls his man and then tries to stop the 'tap and go' could concede a 45m metro free. The cynical fouling in tight games might stop then.
But when would any member of the FF line commit a deliberate, cynical foul to stop the opposition building up a head of steam? Thats just silly thinking that happens :P
Ok not all of them are fouling cynically, some are fouling thinking they are tackling legitimately. ;D
Hmmm Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah..... :P
get rid of square ball
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 03:36:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 26, 2011, 03:06:09 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 03:03:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 26, 2011, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 26, 2011, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 26, 2011, 01:18:51 PM
The Donegal lads will love this if it comes in.
Why don't we just change the name to rugby league and be done with it.
I would understand that consern but if introduced and then implemented well then I think it will speed up the game. If people are punished properly for trying to slow then it would improve the game.
Very interesting proposal. If refereed (!) as explained above then a corner forward who fouls his man and then tries to stop the 'tap and go' could concede a 45m metro free. The cynical fouling in tight games might stop then.
But when would any member of the FF line commit a deliberate, cynical foul to stop the opposition building up a head of steam? Thats just silly thinking that happens :P
Ok not all of them are fouling cynically, some are fouling thinking they are tackling legitimately. ;D
Hmmm Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah..... :P
Et tu BC?
A closet FFer?
1) 2refs for every county game not one 50 year old slowcoach
2) allow mArk between 45"s only on kickouts
3) use a stopclock so we know whAt time is left and for the last 5 mins stop it everytime plAy stops for fees wides etc so teams cAnt fake injury like donie shine last year or take a minute or more to take a free like cluxton)
Get rid of the law of unintended consequences.
Names should not have to be taken for yellow cards just number speeds the whole thing up try writing down someones name on a wet day on the card nightmare take number flash card move on.
A player who is running through on goal and he is deliberately fowled the offender should be yellow carded and sin binned 10Min's
Quote from: spiderman on October 27, 2011, 07:53:15 AM
Names should not have to be taken for yellow cards just number speeds the whole thing up try writing down someones name on a wet day on the card nightmare take number flash card move on.
A player who is running through on goal and he is deliberately fowled the offender should be yellow carded and sin binned 10Min's
That's a good point. I've always wondered why it's necessary for the ref to write down names and waste all the time it takes to do that. Not to mention asking nationally famous figures what their name is. Then cupping his ear - "what?". Then turning him around to read the number on his back even though it's also on his front and he has the name already anyway.
All he has to do is note the number. He has the team list with associated numbers. The bookkeeping can be done afterwards inside out of the rain.
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 10:09:21 AM
Quote from: spiderman on October 27, 2011, 07:53:15 AM
Names should not have to be taken for yellow cards just number speeds the whole thing up try writing down someones name on a wet day on the card nightmare take number flash card move on.
A player who is running through on goal and he is deliberately fowled the offender should be yellow carded and sin binned 10Min's
That's a good point. I've always wondered why it's necessary for the ref to write down names and waste all the time it takes to do that. Not to mention asking nationally famous figures what their name is. Then cupping his ear - "what?". Then turning him around to read the number on his back even though it's also on his front and he has the name already anyway.
All he has to do is note the number. He has the team list with associated numbers. The bookkeeping can be done afterwards inside out of the rain.
I am the boss, I am the gaffer.
Quote from: sligoman2 on October 27, 2011, 12:52:19 AM
3) use a stopclock so we know whAt time is left and for the last 5 mins stop it everytime plAy stops for fees wides etc so teams cAnt fake injury like donie shine last year or take a minute or more to take a free like cluxton)
Can you take 1.23 seconds like Bryan Sheehan half way through the second half of AI final to 'tie your lace' and 'check the wind'?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 27, 2011, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 27, 2011, 10:09:21 AM
Quote from: spiderman on October 27, 2011, 07:53:15 AM
Names should not have to be taken for yellow cards just number speeds the whole thing up try writing down someones name on a wet day on the card nightmare take number flash card move on.
A player who is running through on goal and he is deliberately fowled the offender should be yellow carded and sin binned 10Min's
That's a good point. I've always wondered why it's necessary for the ref to write down names and waste all the time it takes to do that. Not to mention asking nationally famous figures what their name is. Then cupping his ear - "what?". Then turning him around to read the number on his back even though it's also on his front and he has the name already anyway.
All he has to do is note the number. He has the team list with associated numbers. The bookkeeping can be done afterwards inside out of the rain.
I am the boss, I am the gaffer.
Make the players being booked have to go to the sideline to have it recorded and can't come back until after the next passage of play.
Also a yellow card applies to anyone stopping a quick free kick.
Have the players that are booked go to the sideline, check in at the judges desk to be booked. Then they have to do 20 chin-ups, verified by the judge before they are let back on the field. The pundits could then spout on about raising the bar etc.
Two points for kicking a point from outside the hot zone.
Listened to an interesting conversation on English radio earlier today about making hockey a more 'dynamic' game. Women's Hockey has introduced a new rule along the following lines...(not exact, I am no expert)
- When fouled, a player with the 'stick over the ball' can proceed 5 metres without challenge/tackle
Suggested Rule for us... a player fouled between their own 13m line and the opponents 20m line can proceed forward 5 metres (TBD!!!) without being tackled by the opposition team and before taking their free kick. At all times the defender must be 13m from the attacker when the free kick is taken.
Positives for Our Game
1. Definite advantage for attacking player as defender on the back foot
2. Cynical fouling 'out the field/foul him there' can be overcome to some degree
3. The famous/infamous foul count may become less relevant (what will journalists complain about next?, Tyrone would never have won 3 Sams!! blah blah)
4. 'He's fond of the whistle' (nonsense from spectators) will be reduced as advantage is for the fouled payer -refs need support
5. 'Where's he taking it from?' (again nonsense from spectators and players) - advantage for the fouled payer
6. The whistle does not stop the game going forward
Challenges for the Game
1. Something else for the Ref to consider
2. 13m advantage rule to be reviewed
3. Player can run 5 metres with ball in hand (goes against 4 step rule)
In general...seems sensible for hockey, rugby has similar rule....no harm in learning from others!
get rid of the square ball rule,it cause to much confussion
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0402/951633-in-defence-of-referees-the-problem-with-consistency/
Seeing as it's the quiet season and due to the attached article today on Rte what are the thoughts on 2 refs. I have been advocating it for years....
Paul Earley talks about it in this great video at 20.48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1KgECGTMk4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1KgECGTMk4)
"Its Impossible for one referee to referee that game, the game is so fast, its so dynamic, there's so much
going on around the field of play, it is impossible" - Ric Charlesworth "The Coach"
after watching his first Gaelic football match in Croke Park.
AFL wants theirs within 20-30 metres of the play of the ball at all times.
Agree with you Sligoman2
Lads, we struggle to get one ref for all our club games at the moment. How the jaysus would we recruit enough to have 2?
Hate watching a lad getting crowded by 3 4 and 5 players and having no way to play the ball only to be blown up for over carrying. A nod to rugby that should have no place on a GAA pitch. No more than 2 allowed into a tackle
Quote from: High Fielder on April 03, 2018, 01:54:50 PM
Hate watching a lad getting crowded by 3 4 and 5 players and having no way to play the ball only to be blown up for over carrying. A nod to rugby that should have no place on a GAA pitch. No more than 2 allowed into a tackle
surely an incentive to play the ball quicker is allowing him to be surrounded and done for overcarrying
Technically we have 7 members of the officiating party in each game (certainly at intercounty level). Having two of them who appear to believe their only function is to point the flag one way or another every now and then is not helpful.
As with a lot of things in football I tend to think that rule changes are not needed. Use what's there already or apply the rules as they exist.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 03, 2018, 02:06:24 PM
Technically we have 7 members of the officiating party in each game (certainly at intercounty level). Having two of them who appear to believe their only function is to point the flag one way or another every now and then is not helpful.
As with a lot of things in football I tend to think that rule changes are not needed. Use what's there already or apply the rules as they exist.
Agree completely with this. At intercounty level, let the linesmen step in ten metres and ref the games as a second ref. How many line balls are called in the average game?
Quote from: High Fielder on April 03, 2018, 01:54:50 PM
Hate watching a lad getting crowded by 3 4 and 5 players and having no way to play the ball only to be blown up for over carrying. A nod to rugby that should have no place on a GAA pitch. No more than 2 allowed into a tackle
Yes this is a bugbear of mine also. Hard to make a play on the ball when you've barely got enough room to breathe.
Need to come up with some rule to stop teams playing keep ball in their own half to run down the clock.
Looks absolutely cat.
all cynical fouls penalize with 13 meter free from infront of the goal (no black card) and 1 min added to the game
time clock used but not visible to player as it encourages players to waste time
Quote from: Jinxy on April 03, 2018, 03:09:36 PM
Need to come up with some rule to stop teams playing keep ball in their own half to run down the clock.
Looks absolutely cat.
That's only possible if the other team have all withdrawn. Push up on the other team and they'll play it.
Agree completely about the unfairness of players being surrounded and unable to play the ball being penalised.
Also two other things which really annoy me:
(1) throw passes. Passes where both hands are moving and the ball is shovelled to another layer looks really bad
(2) Free kicks taken from the hand where the player starts his run up where the free was awarded and he eventually kicks from a point nowhere near where it should have been. This is especially wrong where it is a free in under 50m from goal
Seen so may goals lately thrown into the net. Seriously has to go. Closed fist/s only.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 03, 2018, 03:11:42 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 03, 2018, 03:09:36 PM
Need to come up with some rule to stop teams playing keep ball in their own half to run down the clock.
Looks absolutely cat.
That's only possible if the other team have all withdrawn. Push up on the other team and they'll play it.
It only happens in the last few minutes of a game when teams are tired though.
Very hard to press & cover effectively.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 03, 2018, 03:33:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 03, 2018, 03:11:42 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 03, 2018, 03:09:36 PM
Need to come up with some rule to stop teams playing keep ball in their own half to run down the clock.
Looks absolutely cat.
That's only possible if the other team have all withdrawn. Push up on the other team and they'll play it.
It only happens in the last few minutes of a game when teams are tired though.
Very hard to press & cover effectively.
If you're chasing the game, there's no excuse to sit deep. If you're tired, then be tired in the opponent's half.
(https://images.amcnetworks.com/ifc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/080912-r-lee-ermy.jpg)
Hooter Stop Clock System was trialled in Sigerson/Fitzgibbon games around 2014.
The Ladies Football has it and seems to work fine, no issues over timewasting/delays.
In the drawn 2015 Kerry vs Cork game - Just over 15 minutes spoilt — 20% of the total game-time.
The clock was due to come into the Championship for 2015 but was shot down.
Eugene McGee of the Football Review Committee said a total of 80% wanted a clock (at inter-county level).
When it was voted down McGee called it a "ludicrous situation".
Interestingly Andy Moran and Aaron Kernan both favour a 50 metre penalty to cut out cynical play.
Moran: "It's a relevant rule to our game and you're not going to pull someone down if the ball is going to be moved up from the 13 to the halfway line, and you're a point up or a point down."
Last year's AI Final near end – timewasting/wrestling tactics and Donegal vs Mayo this year. Imagine how this could change the final last year. According to Kernan current black card offences could be replaced by moving the ball forward 50 metres, he also talks about the quick free kicks being taken and having a 5 metre zone etc.
Thoughts people?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/time-taken-for-free-kicks-highlights-need-for-hooter-in-gaa-341124.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/mcgee-blasts-gaas-hooter-climbdown-315023.html
http://www.the42.ie/andy-moran-50-yard-penalty-call-3925202-Mar2018/
http://www.irishnews.com/sport/opinion/2016/10/18/news/aaron-kernan-gaa-needs-to-make-sure-that-punishments-fits-the-crime-742108/
I like the idea of the clock, but I think the end of the game should be when the ball goes dead after the hooter, not immediately.
The 13m free for cynical fouls is a decent idea, but I'd be nervous it puts more pressure on referees. We've seen the inconsistency in the black card application. One man's deliberate is another's accidental. I think you'd see an awful lot of controversial ones awarded and not awarded. I think you'd also see lads trying hard to buy a free at that stage.
Quote from: Orchard park on April 03, 2018, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: High Fielder on April 03, 2018, 01:54:50 PM
Hate watching a lad getting crowded by 3 4 and 5 players and having no way to play the ball only to be blown up for over carrying. A nod to rugby that should have no place on a GAA pitch. No more than 2 allowed into a tackle
surely an incentive to play the ball quicker is allowing him to be surrounded and done for overcarrying
I'd rather he wasn't surrounded at all. I wonder at the logic of being penalised for over carrying when there is no possibility of release.
and i'd sooner quicker ball release.
strict implementation of the steps rule would help cut down on so many personal fouls also
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 04, 2018, 09:12:40 AM
I like the idea of the clock, but I think the end of the game should be when the ball goes dead after the hooter, not immediately.
The 13m free for cynical fouls is a decent idea, but I'd be nervous it puts more pressure on referees. We've seen the inconsistency in the black card application. One man's deliberate is another's accidental. I think you'd see an awful lot of controversial ones awarded and not awarded. I think you'd also see lads trying hard to buy a free at that stage.
What year was that tried?
I have vague recollections of Paddy O'Rourke hoofing a ball towards the sideline and celebrating before it had even gone out.
To be fair, it was probably a career highlight.
Seeing as black cards are here to stay, there should be more of a penalty, akin to rugby. No sub allowed on for 10 minutes.
Sin bin instead of a black card, clock and 4 steps increased to 6 steps with strict enforcement and if a player is fouled, it's a foul not an advantage where he can take another 6 steps without bouncing or soloing.
Quote from: Orchard park on April 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
and i'd sooner quicker ball release.
strict implementation of the steps rule would help cut down on so many personal fouls also
Agreed on both counts.
Abolish throw points and push/throw goals.
Black cards for preventing/interfering with attempts to take a free.
All black cards in the last 10 minutes to be 13 m frees.
As far as I recall the hooter thing was passed at Congress and trialled in Sigerson (?). The GAA said there were practical problems and couldn't be implemented.
Most cynics thought it was because they wanted Refs to remain in a position to ensure drawn games. ;D
Out of all the potential rule changes that would have an immediate positive impact, the sin bin is a no-brainer.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 04, 2018, 11:21:31 AM
Out of all the potential rule changes that would have an immediate positive impact, the sin bin is a no-brainer.
still would not solve the most cynical last minute fouls that has won many of the last few all Irelands starting with Donegal 2012.
must be a real punishment for that
How would the sin bin work in a Div 5 League game on a wet Friday evening in Ballinameen where you'd be lucky to have a Ref?
I like the idea of an automatic 21 yard free being awarded in conjunction with a sin-binning.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 04, 2018, 11:33:12 AM
How would the sin bin work in a Div 5 League game on a wet Friday evening in Ballinameen where you'd be lucky to have a Ref?
Get the parish priest to time it.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 04, 2018, 11:33:12 AM
How would the sin bin work in a Div 5 League game on a wet Friday evening in Ballinameen where you'd be lucky to have a Ref?
If it works for a J4 game of rugby on a Wet Friday in New Ross it will work anywhere. If players, coaches or supporters don't respect the referee's decision, the problem is not with the yellow card.
Nothing to do with respecting decisions.
How many watches would the ref need if he sin binned 3 or 4 lads in a short period?
He'll have no neutral linesmen or umpires and certainly no sideline official.
Wow with all these suggestions would we never here the old phrases at Gaa games.....
"foul him there if you have ta"
"Kick the f**king thing Dead if your going for a score"
"Sean will ya slow it down will ya we are 4 pints up"
"Paddy get that young lad to run up to there goals there and take them spare balls and put them back in the dressing room"Sure they have the wind now we need to sit on the lead"
"ref fur fecks sake will ya blow it up we won't get a pint before closing time"
Cynical/Black card foul automatic 21 yard free.
Not football related but after seeing Ronan Maher's sideline cut at the weekend I'd give him 5 points alone for that effort.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 04, 2018, 12:18:13 PM
Nothing to do with respecting decisions.
How many watches would the ref need if he sin binned 3 or 4 lads in a short period?
He'll have no neutral linesmen or umpires and certainly no sideline official.
You think referees are stupid and can't note a sin bin in their notebook ::) Trust me the sideline will be very quick to remind the referee when 10 mins is up.
22.10 Green Card No 12 Rossfan
- free kicks outside the 21 kicked from the ground.
- no fisted points from the hands
- no palmed/thrown goals
- black card = a penalty kick
I must admit, fisted points are a real bugbear of mine.
Absolutely zero skill required.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 04, 2018, 03:32:54 PM
I must admit, fisted points are a real bugbear of mine.
Absolutely zero skill required.
Same here. As are tapped over frees from the hands from 14 yards. Like an u-8 match. Brutal spectacle.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 04, 2018, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 04, 2018, 03:32:54 PM
I must admit, fisted points are a real bugbear of mine.
Absolutely zero skill required.
Same here. As are tapped over frees from the hands from 14 yards. Like an u-8 match. Brutal spectacle.
and yet they can be missed ask dessie Dolan
Quote from: rosnarun on April 04, 2018, 11:25:49 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on April 04, 2018, 11:21:31 AM
Out of all the potential rule changes that would have an immediate positive impact, the sin bin is a no-brainer.
still would not solve the most cynical last minute fouls that has won many of the last few all Irelands starting with Donegal 2012.
must be a real punishment for that
Mayo was more cynical in the All Ireland semi final v Dublin in 2012 than Donegal was in that final.
Only allow two players max put a hand in with man in possession. I dont have a clue how you govern it but its pure rubbish when the man in possession is surounded by 3/4/5 players .
Quote from: larryin89 on April 04, 2018, 04:08:39 PM
Only allow two players max put a hand in with man in possession. I dont have a clue how you govern it but its pure rubbish when the man in possession is surounded by 3/4/5 players .
You can't govern it. At what stage would the first tackler become inactive and the third tackler become active?
The ball-carrier should move the ball quicker. Or else it's good defending. I like watching good defending.
Quote from: larryin89 on April 04, 2018, 04:08:39 PM
Only allow two players max put a hand in with man in possession. I dont have a clue how you govern it but its pure rubbish when the man in possession is surounded by 3/4/5 players .
couldnt disagree more .
move the ball on and one wont be caught in possession.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 04, 2018, 03:16:20 PM
- black card = a penalty kick
Would be a bit daft to be awarded a penalty for a third man tackle at the other end of the field. The black card is past its sell by date IMO it should go back to the yellow and red cards only.
At this stage I'd be in favour of some sort of restriction of the handpass.
Maybe limiting it to 5 or 6 is a little hard to implement (as the steps rule shows), and even if you do then people will do a 2m foot pass to reset the clock.
What you could have is a ban on handpassing between the 45s, forcing teams to play the ball down the field with a foot pass as they cant run the ball with 200 hand passes when theres a zone in the middle where hand passes are banned.
What about an "over-and-back" ban, where the ball cannot come back over some line...maybe a team's own 65 (midfield would be the logical one, if the line went from sideline to sideline)? Loss of possession and no score allowed from resulting free kick for infringement.
I'd be reluctant to introduce a ban on handpassing or limiting it as it could lead to teams just flooding back knowing that at some point a kick will have to be made into the scoring zone.
The problem IMO is the competition structure which isn't encouraging of attacking risky football and if you come up against a blanket then you have to mirror it unless you are much stronger than your opponents.
I think the rules are largely fine, albeit the tackle is very difficult to referee, but it's our approach to the game that's the problem.
Quote from: Zulu on April 04, 2018, 05:47:24 PM
I'd be reluctant to introduce a ban on handpassing or limiting it as it could lead to teams just flooding back knowing that at some point a kick will have to be made into the scoring zone.
The problem IMO is the competition structure which isn't encouraging of attacking risky football and if you come up against a blanket then you have to mirror it unless you are much stronger than your opponents.
I think the rules are largely fine, albeit the tackle is very difficult to referee, but it's our approach to the game that's the problem.
A rule saying the kick must go forward would help.
While we are at it, no kicks or passes to the goalkeeper unless the player making the pass in inside the large parallelogram.
Dublin footballers should have no home games in the League.
Referee makes a 'mark' where the free has to be kicked before
Otherwise it's a throw up at that spot
Do we really need any changes? I think it's better left as is. I don't like the black card, I'd rather a ref having the discretion to give a red for serious foul play, the likes of the famous Sean cavanagh incident, he'd happily have accepted a black at the time, if it was a red and suspension that would have been a more fitting. Most black cards issued in games should only warrant a yellow for me in that I don't think the punishment fits the crime
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 04, 2018, 04:50:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 04, 2018, 03:16:20 PM
- black card = a penalty kick
Would be a bit daft to be awarded a penalty for a third man tackle at the other end of the field. The black card is past its sell by date IMO it should go back to the yellow and red cards only.
Black card does work for cynical fouls. Would Dublin forwards have cynically dragged Mayo men to the floor in last years final, if a penalty was the punishment? And them only a point up? A penalty kick is the only way to really punish a cynical foul.
No keep the ball a la les Dubs or back passes to gk. Rugby league has ball to opposition after x phases.
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
No keep the ball a la les Dubs or back passes to gk. Rugby league has ball to opposition after x phases.
Basketball has a shot clock, I suppose you want that too?
No need to imitate every other sport or any other sport for that matter.
Defining a gaelic football tackle and legal means of dispossessing an opponent will fix a lot of our ills. If a team can get 4 players around an opponent and the player in possession cannot find an open player, then maybe the 4 tacklers should get possession for assuming the risk of leaving their own markers?
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
No keep the ball a la les Dubs or back passes to gk. Rugby league has ball to opposition after x phases.
If Dublin or anyone else are good enough to put themselves in a position to be able to play like that then fair play and use it. Let the opposition push up and the you can try punish them. There's 15 on 15 out there, it's easy for Dublin to do it because teams still set up defensively, have their sweepers and defensive wall in place. I love how they see out games
Quote from: BennyCake on April 04, 2018, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 04, 2018, 04:50:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 04, 2018, 03:16:20 PM
- black card = a penalty kick
Would be a bit daft to be awarded a penalty for a third man tackle at the other end of the field. The black card is past its sell by date IMO it should go back to the yellow and red cards only.
Black card does work for cynical fouls. Would Dublin forwards have cynically dragged Mayo men to the floor in last years final, if a penalty was the punishment? And them only a point up? A penalty kick is the only way to really punish a cynical foul.
Yes but if the penalty kick is deemed too severe a punishment , add significant time and award possession against team doing the cynical stuff.
Quote from: larryin89 on April 04, 2018, 06:42:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 04, 2018, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 04, 2018, 04:50:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 04, 2018, 03:16:20 PM
- black card = a penalty kick
Would be a bit daft to be awarded a penalty for a third man tackle at the other end of the field. The black card is past its sell by date IMO it should go back to the yellow and red cards only.
Black card does work for cynical fouls. Would Dublin forwards have cynically dragged Mayo men to the floor in last years final, if a penalty was the punishment? And them only a point up? A penalty kick is the only way to really punish a cynical foul.
Yes but if the penalty kick is deemed too severe a punishment , add significant time and award possession against team doing the cynical stuff.
A team in the same position as Dublin could waste 20 additional minutes by lying down, grabbing, scrapping to waste time and disrupt the flow to hold that 1 point lead. If they knew a cynical foul in injury time could result in a penalty and losing an AI title, they'd think again.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 04, 2018, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
No keep the ball a la les Dubs or back passes to gk. Rugby league has ball to opposition after x phases.
Basketball has a shot clock, I suppose you want that too?
No need to imitate every other sport or any other sport for that matter.
Defining a gaelic football tackle and legal means of dispossessing an opponent will fix a lot of our ills. If a team can get 4 players around an opponent and the player in possession cannot find an open player, then maybe the 4 tacklers should get possession for assuming the risk of leaving their own markers?
There is a definition of a tackle - a legal attempt to win or dispossess an opponent
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 04, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 04, 2018, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
No keep the ball a la les Dubs or back passes to gk. Rugby league has ball to opposition after x phases.
Basketball has a shot clock, I suppose you want that too?
No need to imitate every other sport or any other sport for that matter.
Defining a gaelic football tackle and legal means of dispossessing an opponent will fix a lot of our ills. If a team can get 4 players around an opponent and the player in possession cannot find an open player, then maybe the 4 tacklers should get possession for assuming the risk of leaving their own markers?
There is a definition of a tackle - a legal attempt to win or dispossess an opponent
From the Rule Book: (but does it really help?)
Football:
The tackle is a skill by which one or more players may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. A tackle
is aimed at the ball, not the player. A tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact such as punching, slapping,
arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact allowed is that in the course of
a Fair Charge one player only with at least one foot on the ground , makes a shoulder to shoulder charge on the player in possession.
What are the "Rules of fair play"??
Quote from: Rossfan on April 04, 2018, 08:15:21 PM
What are the "Rules of fair play"??
The part of the Rule book that comes just before "Rules of Foul Play".
Defenders being allowed tackle and not turning the game non contact like at present. Ridiculous stuff in many of the games in Croker the weekend.
Quote from: full moon on April 04, 2018, 11:10:38 PM
Defenders being allowed tackle and not turning the game non contact like at present. Ridiculous stuff in many of the games in Croker the weekend.
Give an example
Both games on Sunday were refereed well enough
Quote from: Rossfan on April 04, 2018, 12:18:13 PM
Nothing to do with respecting decisions.
How many watches would the ref need if he sin binned 3 or 4 lads in a short period?
He'll have no neutral linesmen or umpires and certainly no sideline official.
Ah come on. Surely someone could design some sort of device or app that could so this. Probably already something in the app store that can run a few timers at the same time and give an alarm when 10 mins are up
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 04, 2018, 11:25:10 PM
Quote from: full moon on April 04, 2018, 11:10:38 PM
Defenders being allowed tackle and not turning the game non contact like at present. Ridiculous stuff in many of the games in Croker the weekend.
Give an example
Both games on Sunday were refereed well enough
Dublin red card
Any touch on Dublin forward a free
Countless silly frees Fermanagh Armagh
Couldn't find anywhere else to put this one
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/distance-of-shootout-frees-to-be-reduced-36779909.html
I thought I heard some announcement to that effect in Croke Park last Sunday alright.
New man at the helm of this committee. David Hasson from Derry is now chair.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 04, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 04, 2018, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
No keep the ball a la les Dubs or back passes to gk. Rugby league has ball to opposition after x phases.
Basketball has a shot clock, I suppose you want that too?
No need to imitate every other sport or any other sport for that matter.
Defining a gaelic football tackle and legal means of dispossessing an opponent will fix a lot of our ills. If a team can get 4 players around an opponent and the player in possession cannot find an open player, then maybe the 4 tacklers should get possession for assuming the risk of leaving their own markers?
There is a definition of a tackle - a legal attempt to win or dispossess an opponent
Could we get a definition of 'a legal attempt'?
Quote from: Jinxy on April 06, 2018, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 04, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on April 04, 2018, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 04, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
No keep the ball a la les Dubs or back passes to gk. Rugby league has ball to opposition after x phases.
Basketball has a shot clock, I suppose you want that too?
No need to imitate every other sport or any other sport for that matter.
Defining a gaelic football tackle and legal means of dispossessing an opponent will fix a lot of our ills. If a team can get 4 players around an opponent and the player in possession cannot find an open player, then maybe the 4 tacklers should get possession for assuming the risk of leaving their own markers?
There is a definition of a tackle - a legal attempt to win or dispossess an opponent
Could we get a definition of 'a legal attempt'?
I think any attempt that does not involve grabbing the player or jersey and is not a punch or a slap design to hurt rather than dispossess should be allowed . but ther important part is if the player in possession hold the ball for longer than 4 step or that similar time the referee should reward the tackle as if the player holds on long enough he's sure o get a free at present.
the exception to all of this being Aidan o se who every one knows is big enough to take it
Split Dublin in 4 !!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Honestly I'd certainly change that free taking shite....Peno's or nothing!
no Substitutions after 5 minutes to go , stop games petering out with a whole host of stoppages , this including injuries