26 County General Election 2020

[mouview]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

Of course for some it will still be an issue. I don't believe that if there are any figures giving advice in the background that they are still actively directing terrorism. Personally I think it would be best that SF are not admitted into government this time but it is going to happen sooner or later.  Are Fine Gael going to wait until all of the former IRA figures have died off before they will consider going into government then? Some people are so set in their thinking and feel so threatened as the old established order comes under threat, that they simply can't countenance SF in government at any stage be that now or in 15 years time. Unfortunately that is not democracy either.         

Surely excluding the most popular party from government is not democracy either? And as for the IRA, you don't seriously think that FG/FF's concern is actually about the IRA? It's extinct FFS. FF & FG are purely concerned about power & self-preservation and that requires stemming the SF tide at all costs and if that means going so far as to risk the peace process by trying desperately to conjure up the IRA at every opportunity, then so be it. They are morally bankrupt.

How 'f*&king gullible' are you?

[Snapchap]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

Of course for some it will still be an issue. I don't believe that if there are any figures giving advice in the background that they are still actively directing terrorism. Personally I think it would be best that SF are not admitted into government this time but it is going to happen sooner or later.  Are Fine Gael going to wait until all of the former IRA figures have died off before they will consider going into government then? Some people are so set in their thinking and feel so threatened as the old established order comes under threat, that they simply can't countenance SF in government at any stage be that now or in 15 years time. Unfortunately that is not democracy either.         

Surely excluding the most popular party from government is not democracy either? And as for the IRA, you don't seriously think that FG/FF's concern is actually about the IRA? It's extinct FFS. FF & FG are purely concerned about power & self-preservation and that requires stemming the SF tide at all costs and if that means going so far as to risk the peace process by trying desperately to conjure up the IRA at every opportunity, then so be it. They are morally bankrupt.

How 'f*&king gullible' are you?

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

Of course for some it will still be an issue. I don't believe that if there are any figures giving advice in the background that they are still actively directing terrorism. Personally I think it would be best that SF are not admitted into government this time but it is going to happen sooner or later.  Are Fine Gael going to wait until all of the former IRA figures have died off before they will consider going into government then? Some people are so set in their thinking and feel so threatened as the old established order comes under threat, that they simply can't countenance SF in government at any stage be that now or in 15 years time. Unfortunately that is not democracy either.         

Surely excluding the most popular party from government is not democracy either? And as for the IRA, you don't seriously think that FG/FF's concern is actually about the IRA? It's extinct FFS. FF & FG are purely concerned about power & self-preservation and that requires stemming the SF tide at all costs and if that means going so far as to risk the peace process by trying desperately to conjure up the IRA at every opportunity, then so be it. They are morally bankrupt.

How 'f*&king gullible' are you?

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

We pick and chose when to get upset with people's past. No consistency.

[Hound]

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

Well regardless of what Drew Harris really thinks or what any of us think about him, it's pretty clear that Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson have control and oversight of Sinn Fein in the 6 counties. And given they always go on about being the only party who are both north and south, it's probably safe to assume the 3 lads have a similar arrangement with Mary Lou?

Can you tell us more about the 3 men, just so we know who'll be leading us in the future? There was a journalist on Dunphy's podcast last week who said Howell probably played a part in the IRA laying down their arms, but nothing else really about them (other than going through the evidence of how they seemed to be controlling O'Muilleor)

[Angelo]

Micheal Martin has played right into SF's hand since the election. By dismissing them completely I can't help but feel that he is only bolstering support for them. FG have now joined the attacks in the last day or two and Drew Harris' comments yesterday about the SF links to the IRA army council being still intact are very curious in their timing. Continuing to bang the old IRA drum will have less resonance with people now that the old brigade are almost phased out even if a few linger in the background but for anybody under the age of 40, it is not a pressing issue. People just want to give the old established order of FF & FG a bloody nose and by them attacking SF it is only helping to feed the narrative of the establishment against the people that SF want to create. If they really are hell bent on not going into government with SF then I'm not sure what else they can actually do to win public support and confidence but I'd guess that the longer they keep SF out in the cold the more that the public anger will build.

It is a pressing issue for me; I don't want a political party being controlled by terrorists or shadowy figures in the background anywhere near the running of this country. The Chief policeman in the country was correct and had a duty to call this one out. FG have been consistent all along in their insistence that they will not deal with SF, not just in the past few days.

a) The chief policeman in the free state is a former high ranking member of a disbanded and disgraced police force who were involved in colluding and carrying out sectarian murders and suppressing investigations as victims and their families sought justice
b) The chief policeman's views are not based on any sort of concrete evidence whatsoever, they are his subjective views on what others views actually are and given his background, this makes him very much compromised
c) The timing of these comments are very interesting and do not inspire confidence in the police force in the free state after all its recent controversies

Other senior gardai agree with him.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/what-evidence-is-there-that-the-ira-still-controls-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4182679

Padraig MacLochlainn has a letter from Gardai, dated 2015 stating that Gardai do not believe this, so somewhere in subsequent 5 years, the Gardai have changed their mind, without evidence.

Are you intelligent enough to figure out what is happening here?

[Angelo]

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

Well regardless of what Drew Harris really thinks or what any of us think about him, it's pretty clear that Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson have control and oversight of Sinn Fein in the 6 counties. And given they always go on about being the only party who are both north and south, it's probably safe to assume the 3 lads have a similar arrangement with Mary Lou?

Can you tell us more about the 3 men, just so we know who'll be leading us in the future? There was a journalist on Dunphy's podcast last week who said Howell probably played a part in the IRA laying down their arms, but nothing else really about them (other than going through the evidence of how they seemed to be controlling O'Muilleor)

Is it safe to assume that the likes of Denis O'Brien, Larry Goodman, Ben Dunne etc have had control and oversight of previous Irish governments?

[armaghniac]

Is it safe to assume that the likes of Denis O'Brien, Larry Goodman, Ben Dunne etc have had control and oversight of previous Irish governments?

Perhaps they did, but nobody wants those days back, do they?

[Angelo]

Is it safe to assume that the likes of Denis O'Brien, Larry Goodman, Ben Dunne etc have had control and oversight of previous Irish governments?

Perhaps they did, but nobody wants those days back, do they?

Have they ever gone away?

[Hound]

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

Well regardless of what Drew Harris really thinks or what any of us think about him, it's pretty clear that Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson have control and oversight of Sinn Fein in the 6 counties. And given they always go on about being the only party who are both north and south, it's probably safe to assume the 3 lads have a similar arrangement with Mary Lou?

Can you tell us more about the 3 men, just so we know who'll be leading us in the future? There was a journalist on Dunphy's podcast last week who said Howell probably played a part in the IRA laying down their arms, but nothing else really about them (other than going through the evidence of how they seemed to be controlling O'Muilleor)

Is it safe to assume that the likes of Denis O'Brien, Larry Goodman, Ben Dunne etc have had control and oversight of previous Irish governments?

Ah whatabouttery!!

It's all grand so because in the past some people had a politician or 2 in their pocket!

[Angelo]

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

Well regardless of what Drew Harris really thinks or what any of us think about him, it's pretty clear that Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson have control and oversight of Sinn Fein in the 6 counties. And given they always go on about being the only party who are both north and south, it's probably safe to assume the 3 lads have a similar arrangement with Mary Lou?

Can you tell us more about the 3 men, just so we know who'll be leading us in the future? There was a journalist on Dunphy's podcast last week who said Howell probably played a part in the IRA laying down their arms, but nothing else really about them (other than going through the evidence of how they seemed to be controlling O'Muilleor)

Is it safe to assume that the likes of Denis O'Brien, Larry Goodman, Ben Dunne etc have had control and oversight of previous Irish governments?

Ah whatabouttery!!

It's all grand so because in the past some people had a politician or 2 in their pocket!

I'm trying to clarify and square off your views here, so far I'm getting:

- It's acceptable for political parties to accept bribes from wealthy businessmen that shape government policy and decision making
- It's unaccaeptable for a political party to take consult external advisors on matters that shape government policy and decisions

What you call whataboutery I call balance and context and the balance and the context in this matter says you are a knot of contradictions and your outrage and concerns are both staged and theatrical.

[Hound]

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

Well regardless of what Drew Harris really thinks or what any of us think about him, it's pretty clear that Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson have control and oversight of Sinn Fein in the 6 counties. And given they always go on about being the only party who are both north and south, it's probably safe to assume the 3 lads have a similar arrangement with Mary Lou?

Can you tell us more about the 3 men, just so we know who'll be leading us in the future? There was a journalist on Dunphy's podcast last week who said Howell probably played a part in the IRA laying down their arms, but nothing else really about them (other than going through the evidence of how they seemed to be controlling O'Muilleor)

Is it safe to assume that the likes of Denis O'Brien, Larry Goodman, Ben Dunne etc have had control and oversight of previous Irish governments?

Ah whatabouttery!!

It's all grand so because in the past some people had a politician or 2 in their pocket!

I'm trying to clarify and square off your views here, so far I'm getting:

- It's acceptable for political parties to accept bribes from wealthy businessmen that shape government policy and decision making
- It's unaccaeptable for a political party to take consult external advisors on matters that shape government policy and decisions

What you call whataboutery I call balance and context and the balance and the context in this matter says you are a knot of contradictions and your outrage and concerns are both staged and theatrical.

Where did anyone say it's acceptable for a politician to accept bribes?
It was a great day when Ray Burke and others went to jail. Just not half enough of them were caught.

But back to today! So are you refusing to answer the question about Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson or do you have no clue either about who the leaders and directors of Sinn Fein are?

[Angelo]

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

Well regardless of what Drew Harris really thinks or what any of us think about him, it's pretty clear that Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson have control and oversight of Sinn Fein in the 6 counties. And given they always go on about being the only party who are both north and south, it's probably safe to assume the 3 lads have a similar arrangement with Mary Lou?

Can you tell us more about the 3 men, just so we know who'll be leading us in the future? There was a journalist on Dunphy's podcast last week who said Howell probably played a part in the IRA laying down their arms, but nothing else really about them (other than going through the evidence of how they seemed to be controlling O'Muilleor)

Is it safe to assume that the likes of Denis O'Brien, Larry Goodman, Ben Dunne etc have had control and oversight of previous Irish governments?

Ah whatabouttery!!

It's all grand so because in the past some people had a politician or 2 in their pocket!

I'm trying to clarify and square off your views here, so far I'm getting:

- It's acceptable for political parties to accept bribes from wealthy businessmen that shape government policy and decision making
- It's unaccaeptable for a political party to take consult external advisors on matters that shape government policy and decisions

What you call whataboutery I call balance and context and the balance and the context in this matter says you are a knot of contradictions and your outrage and concerns are both staged and theatrical.

Where did anyone say it's acceptable for a politician to accept bribes?
It was a great day when Ray Burke and others went to jail. Just not half enough of them were caught.

But back to today! So are you refusing to answer the question about Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson or do you have no clue either about who the leaders and directors of Sinn Fein are?

I don't have an issue with SF party members consulting external members aligned with the party on matters, I don't see the issue there.

I do have a massive problem with parties disgraced with decades of bribery and corruption like both FG and FF are, these are the same parties pedaling the former as an issue for concern.

I think you have your gun cocked in the wrong direction if you are actually concerned about democracy and who is leading in the future? The ties between Denis O'Brien and FG are still very close.

What's your issue with Ted Howell?

[Hound]

I don't have an issue with SF party members consulting external members aligned with the party on matters, I don't see the issue there.

I do have a massive problem with parties disgraced with decades of bribery and corruption like both FG and FF are, these are the same parties pedaling the former as an issue for concern.

I think you have your gun cocked in the wrong direction if you are actually concerned about democracy and who is leading in the future? The ties between Denis O'Brien and FG are still very close.

What's your issue with Ted Howell?

your whattaboutery and refusal to answer the question is getting very boring. Don't reply to me and leave it to someone else if you can't answer the question. Maybe you just don't know. That's fine, but please go off on your tangents on some other thread rather than in response to me! 

I don't know that I have any issue with Ted Howell. The Dunphy podcast was the first I heard of him. I want to learn more about the future co-leader of our country so I can decide for myself. The issue doesn't seem a surprise to the Shinners on here so I'm sure someone can have a go.

[yellowcard]

My question stands. Drew Harris basically said he agrees with HIS OWN report from when he was PSNI deputy chief. That report DID NOT say that an army council controls SF, but that individual IRA people believe that an army council oversees SF. So the story has been deliberately skewed to deliver a false narrative. So only the dishonest or the stupid are claiming that he said he believes SF are controlled by an army council. Which is it in your case?

And again, why aren't you concerned by Drew Harris' past, considering his current position?

Well regardless of what Drew Harris really thinks or what any of us think about him, it's pretty clear that Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson have control and oversight of Sinn Fein in the 6 counties. And given they always go on about being the only party who are both north and south, it's probably safe to assume the 3 lads have a similar arrangement with Mary Lou?

Can you tell us more about the 3 men, just so we know who'll be leading us in the future? There was a journalist on Dunphy's podcast last week who said Howell probably played a part in the IRA laying down their arms, but nothing else really about them (other than going through the evidence of how they seemed to be controlling O'Muilleor)

Is it safe to assume that the likes of Denis O'Brien, Larry Goodman, Ben Dunne etc have had control and oversight of previous Irish governments?

Ah whatabouttery!!

It's all grand so because in the past some people had a politician or 2 in their pocket!

I'm trying to clarify and square off your views here, so far I'm getting:

- It's acceptable for political parties to accept bribes from wealthy businessmen that shape government policy and decision making
- It's unaccaeptable for a political party to take consult external advisors on matters that shape government policy and decisions

What you call whataboutery I call balance and context and the balance and the context in this matter says you are a knot of contradictions and your outrage and concerns are both staged and theatrical.

Where did anyone say it's acceptable for a politician to accept bribes?
It was a great day when Ray Burke and others went to jail. Just not half enough of them were caught.

But back to today! So are you refusing to answer the question about Ted Howell, Martin Lynch and Padraig Wilson or do you have no clue either about who the leaders and directors of Sinn Fein are?

I don't have an issue with SF party members consulting external members aligned with the party on matters, I don't see the issue there.

I do have a massive problem with parties disgraced with decades of bribery and corruption like both FG and FF are, these are the same parties pedaling the former as an issue for concern.

I think you have your gun cocked in the wrong direction if you are actually concerned about democracy and who is leading in the future? The ties between Denis O'Brien and FG are still very close.

What's your issue with Ted Howell?

Not enough is known about this.

But we know that Denis O'Brien controls a large part of the Irish media and whilst Leo spoke rather hysterically today about SF trying to bully and intimidate their way into government, you could argue that Denis O'Brien through the power of his legal team has done similar to frighten off anybody who dare scrutinise him.     

[Angelo]

I don't have an issue with SF party members consulting external members aligned with the party on matters, I don't see the issue there.

I do have a massive problem with parties disgraced with decades of bribery and corruption like both FG and FF are, these are the same parties pedaling the former as an issue for concern.

I think you have your gun cocked in the wrong direction if you are actually concerned about democracy and who is leading in the future? The ties between Denis O'Brien and FG are still very close.

What's your issue with Ted Howell?

your whattaboutery and refusal to answer the question is getting very boring. Don't reply to me and leave it to someone else if you can't answer the question. Maybe you just don't know. That's fine, but please go off on your tangents on some other thread rather than in response to me! 

I don't know that I have any issue with Ted Howell. The Dunphy podcast was the first I heard of him. I want to learn more about the future co-leader of our country so I can decide for myself. The issue doesn't seem a surprise to the Shinners on here so I'm sure someone can have a go.

It's balance and context, you're just a bit too dim to be able to square off your contradictions.

What we can see here is that you are absolutely steadfast in your reluctance to look at the two establishment parties down South and the decades of corruption that they have engaged in.

I haven't avoided any question. I have stated I don't have an issue with SF consulting people like Ted Howell (that's a reiteration) -  you do, which is confusing given your reluctance to address decades of corruption in both FF and FG and how the people who the strings for those parties, who historically have been wealthy businessmen with brown envelopers, offshore accounts and other gifts.

It's a huge contradiction, I can't help that you aren't able to explain your rationale behind that contradiction but feel free to try again.