Islamic Jihadists ISIS

[sid waddell]

Question - for anyone wanting to take her back.

Would you be happy if she moved into your street for your child to grow up playing/hanging out etc with your child or indeed for her to start hanging out with your children?

No, but that's not the point, is it?

The problem here is that everything is slightly complicated by teeny weeny things like laws and rights.

Im not questioning the laws or rights - simply asking how people would feel about it and if you would be happy?

Grand so.

We've established her legal rights should be upheld, and the law should be upheld.

And that's basically the end of the thread.

[Dolph1]

Question - for anyone wanting to take her back.

Would you be happy if she moved into your street for your child to grow up playing/hanging out etc with your child or indeed for her to start hanging out with your children?

Of course they would. This is an internet forum where you can claim to support a whole world of different views and opinions without actually having to carry out any significant action in the real world.

We're obviously dealing with an intellectual powerhouse here, folks.

I hope you are not claiming to be some sort of intellectual Sid / Eamonnca1

You'd be seriously mistaken. 

[trailer]

Question - for anyone wanting to take her back.

Would you be happy if she moved into your street for your child to grow up playing/hanging out etc with your child or indeed for her to start hanging out with your children?

Of course they would. This is an internet forum where you can claim to support a whole world of different views and opinions without actually having to carry out any significant action in the real world.

We're obviously dealing with an intellectual powerhouse here, folks.

Nee-Naw, Nee-Naw here comes the thought police.

[Taylor]

Question - for anyone wanting to take her back.

Would you be happy if she moved into your street for your child to grow up playing/hanging out etc with your child or indeed for her to start hanging out with your children?

No, but that's not the point, is it?

The problem here is that everything is slightly complicated by teeny weeny things like laws and rights.

Im not questioning the laws or rights - simply asking how people would feel about it and if you would be happy?

Grand so.

We've established her legal rights should be upheld, and the law should be upheld.

And that's basically the end of the thread.

So would you be happy if she was moved in to your street? Simple question Sid

[GetOverTheBar]

Did she? I mean legally, did she join a terrorist organisation? Can you prove it? Define "joined"?

If you can prove it, what are the consequences? Strip her of her passport and citizenship? Is that legal? Don't let her back in? Where does she go when the Syrians don't want her?

So many questions and nuances that people conveniently ignore.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/14/london-schoolgirl-who-fled-to-join-isis-wants-to-return-to-uk

Direct Quote -

"Mostly it was a normal life in Raqqa, every now and then bombing and stuff," she said. "But when I saw my first severed head in a bin it didn't faze me at all. It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam."

Indefensible.

Definition of "joined a terrorist organisation"
No I don't think she filled out a membership form and paid a subscription as some seem to think. But she travelled to Syria willingly to become a jihad bride. That's joining in my book.
She's a dangerous person who should be treated as such. People who follow ISIS are responsible for some of the worst terrorist acts the western world has seen since the IRA.

What would be suitable punishment for supporting the IRA and justifying civilian deaths in Ireland?

I get your point, but not relevant to this particular issue. This is an issue of citizenship and nationality for me after fleeing your country of birth to join Islamic State, for all intents and purposes an 'enemy nation'.

Now Islamic State (in it's current form) is defeated, she wants to come home. If those quotes are indeed accurate, doesn't regret a thing purely because she is 9 months pregnant for some good old fashioned free NHS/Social Welfare goodies presumably. I can't for one second think why the British Govt would extend themselves in any way to help this woman.

Should those who supported the IRA be denied the NHS and Welfare? 

If Britain was at war with ISIS then there are treason laws which may be applicable.
Even if not, ISIS is a proscribed organisation and there will be some catch-all aiding and abetting a terrorist organisation she could potentially be prosecuted under.

Again I get your point, but....But we can agree that the IRA was fighting an invading force, for want to better terminology on their own land? I don't see the IRA as a clearly offensive force, they were borne out of defence of an already conquered territory? It's not a like for like comparison for me.

Islamic state was an invading force in a foreign land(s), she's left all natural borders (be it civil, national or even European) to join the Caliphate. She's backed the losing horse in her immaturity and will have to deal with whatever the consequences may be. I don't see how they'll prosecute her for anything, her interview she seems that stupid to even say some of those things if she is a danger - it seems mostly to herself and child so the chances of her being part of some kind of cell upon coming 'home' would be limited, not to mention you have to imagine the British wouldn't take their eyes off her for years.

It's an interesting case, I'm interested to see how the British deal with this - if she does come home you all know she'll subjected to serious hate crimes.

[sid waddell]

Question - for anyone wanting to take her back.

Would you be happy if she moved into your street for your child to grow up playing/hanging out etc with your child or indeed for her to start hanging out with your children?

No, but that's not the point, is it?

The problem here is that everything is slightly complicated by teeny weeny things like laws and rights.

Im not questioning the laws or rights - simply asking how people would feel about it and if you would be happy?

Grand so.

We've established her legal rights should be upheld, and the law should be upheld.

And that's basically the end of the thread.

So would you be happy if she was moved in to your street? Simple question Sid

No, of course not - but that has absolutely no bearing as to whether she should be allowed to move to my street - if I lived in the UK, of course, which I don't.

There are many people I'd rather didn't live beside me - some of them are even on this forum.

I'd absolutely hate it if Stephen Yaxley-Lennon moved into the house next to me, for instance. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have the right to move into the house next to me, or that I think he should be locked up without due process.

Not liking somebody is not a basis for locking them up or denying them their legal rights.

And it is sort of a shame to have to explain that.

[Taylor]

Question - for anyone wanting to take her back.

Would you be happy if she moved into your street for your child to grow up playing/hanging out etc with your child or indeed for her to start hanging out with your children?

No, but that's not the point, is it?

The problem here is that everything is slightly complicated by teeny weeny things like laws and rights.

Im not questioning the laws or rights - simply asking how people would feel about it and if you would be happy?

Grand so.

We've established her legal rights should be upheld, and the law should be upheld.

And that's basically the end of the thread.

So would you be happy if she was moved in to your street? Simple question Sid

No, of course not - but that has absolutely no bearing as to whether she should be allowed to move to my street - if I lived in the UK, of course, which I don't.

There are many people I'd rather didn't live beside me - some of them are even on this forum.

I'd absolutely hate it if Stephen Yaxley-Lennon moved into the house next to me, for instance. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have the right to move into the house next to me, or that I think he should be locked up without due process.

Not liking somebody is not a basis for locking them up or denying them their legal rights.

And it is sort of a shame to have to explain that.

No I get what you are saying however it does go some way to explain the opposition to her getting back in.

Fear of moving close to you/me etc
Fear of attempting to brainwash those she comes in contact with or young impressionable people.
Fear of housing other like minded individuals.
Fear of a lone wolf attack.

Simply because she holds a passport doesnt make it right that she should get back in

[sid waddell]

Question - for anyone wanting to take her back.

Would you be happy if she moved into your street for your child to grow up playing/hanging out etc with your child or indeed for her to start hanging out with your children?

No, but that's not the point, is it?

The problem here is that everything is slightly complicated by teeny weeny things like laws and rights.

Im not questioning the laws or rights - simply asking how people would feel about it and if you would be happy?

Grand so.

We've established her legal rights should be upheld, and the law should be upheld.

And that's basically the end of the thread.

So would you be happy if she was moved in to your street? Simple question Sid

No, of course not - but that has absolutely no bearing as to whether she should be allowed to move to my street - if I lived in the UK, of course, which I don't.

There are many people I'd rather didn't live beside me - some of them are even on this forum.

I'd absolutely hate it if Stephen Yaxley-Lennon moved into the house next to me, for instance. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have the right to move into the house next to me, or that I think he should be locked up without due process.

Not liking somebody is not a basis for locking them up or denying them their legal rights.

And it is sort of a shame to have to explain that.

No I get what you are saying however it does go some way to explain the opposition to her getting back in.

Fear of moving close to you/me etc
Fear of attempting to brainwash those she comes in contact with or young impressionable people.
Fear of housing other like minded individuals.
Fear of a lone wolf attack.

Simply because she holds a passport doesnt make it right that she should get back in

The UK has to have a duty of care for its citizens. It is absolutely right that she should get back in and then let due process do the rest.

[Dolph1]

No, of course not - but that has absolutely no bearing as to whether she should be allowed to move to my street - if I lived in the UK, of course, which I don't.

There are many people I'd rather didn't live beside me - some of them are even on this forum.

I'd absolutely hate it if Stephen Yaxley-Lennon moved into the house next to me, for instance. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have the right to move into the house next to me, or that I think he should be locked up without due process.

Not liking somebody is not a basis for locking them up or denying them their legal rights.

And it is sort of a shame to have to explain that.

You mean Tommy Robinson instead there Eamonnca1??

[Dolph1]

The UK has to have a duty of care for its citizens. It is absolutely right that she should get back in and then let due process do the rest.

That's ironic since you think that the rights of American citizens aren't worth a dime and advocate open borders.

If you said the USA has a duty of care for it's citizens you would be fully behind the building of the southern wall.

[seafoid]

The UK has to have a duty of care for its citizens. It is absolutely right that she should get back in and then let due process do the rest.

That's ironic since you think that the rights of American citizens aren't worth a dime and advocate open borders.

If you said the USA has a duty of care for it's citizens you would be fully behind the building of the southern wall.

Wrong dude,
You would be behind collecting all the guns and destroying them

https://www.newsweek.com/parkland-shooting-when-anniversary-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-school-1330882

But you hate Americans, don't you ?

[seafoid]

This is very like the Brexit issue

If the UK leaves and changes its mind it should be let back in
Surely

[tonto1888]

Question - for anyone wanting to take her back.

Would you be happy if she moved into your street for your child to grow up playing/hanging out etc with your child or indeed for her to start hanging out with your children?

No, but that's not the point, is it?

The problem here is that everything is slightly complicated by teeny weeny things like laws and rights.

Im not questioning the laws or rights - simply asking how people would feel about it and if you would be happy?

Grand so.

We've established her legal rights should be upheld, and the law should be upheld.

And that's basically the end of the thread.

So would you be happy if she was moved in to your street? Simple question Sid

No, of course not - but that has absolutely no bearing as to whether she should be allowed to move to my street - if I lived in the UK, of course, which I don't.

There are many people I'd rather didn't live beside me - some of them are even on this forum.

I'd absolutely hate it if Stephen Yaxley-Lennon moved into the house next to me, for instance. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have the right to move into the house next to me, or that I think he should be locked up without due process.

Not liking somebody is not a basis for locking them up or denying them their legal rights.

And it is sort of a shame to have to explain that.

I know this is a serious thread but the line about some of them are even on this forum made me chuckle

[LeoMc]

Did she? I mean legally, did she join a terrorist organisation? Can you prove it? Define "joined"?

If you can prove it, what are the consequences? Strip her of her passport and citizenship? Is that legal? Don't let her back in? Where does she go when the Syrians don't want her?

So many questions and nuances that people conveniently ignore.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/14/london-schoolgirl-who-fled-to-join-isis-wants-to-return-to-uk

Direct Quote -

"Mostly it was a normal life in Raqqa, every now and then bombing and stuff," she said. "But when I saw my first severed head in a bin it didn't faze me at all. It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam."

Indefensible.

Definition of "joined a terrorist organisation"
No I don't think she filled out a membership form and paid a subscription as some seem to think. But she travelled to Syria willingly to become a jihad bride. That's joining in my book.
She's a dangerous person who should be treated as such. People who follow ISIS are responsible for some of the worst terrorist acts the western world has seen since the IRA.

What would be suitable punishment for supporting the IRA and justifying civilian deaths in Ireland?

I get your point, but not relevant to this particular issue. This is an issue of citizenship and nationality for me after fleeing your country of birth to join Islamic State, for all intents and purposes an 'enemy nation'.

Now Islamic State (in it's current form) is defeated, she wants to come home. If those quotes are indeed accurate, doesn't regret a thing purely because she is 9 months pregnant for some good old fashioned free NHS/Social Welfare goodies presumably. I can't for one second think why the British Govt would extend themselves in any way to help this woman.

Should those who supported the IRA be denied the NHS and Welfare? 

If Britain was at war with ISIS then there are treason laws which may be applicable.
Even if not, ISIS is a proscribed organisation and there will be some catch-all aiding and abetting a terrorist organisation she could potentially be prosecuted under.

Again I get your point, but....But we can agree that the IRA was fighting an invading force, for want to better terminology on their own land? I don't see the IRA as a clearly offensive force, they were borne out of defence of an already conquered territory? It's not a like for like comparison for me.

Islamic state was an invading force in a foreign land(s), she's left all natural borders (be it civil, national or even European) to join the Caliphate. She's backed the losing horse in her immaturity and will have to deal with whatever the consequences may be. I don't see how they'll prosecute her for anything, her interview she seems that stupid to even say some of those things if she is a danger - it seems mostly to herself and child so the chances of her being part of some kind of cell upon coming 'home' would be limited, not to mention you have to imagine the British wouldn't take their eyes off her for years.

It's an interesting case, I'm interested to see how the British deal with this - if she does come home you all know she'll subjected to serious hate crimes.

Again, playing devils advocate, ISIS would argue they were reasserting the caliphate, overthrowing the British/ French imposed artificial borders and foreign backed dictators and were a legitimately army fighting for their homeland. They would not be the first army to carry out acts of terrorism in the lands of their enemies.

[screenexile]

I see a lot of coverage on it and a lot of right wing media commentators going mental about allowing her back in... I've yet to see many left wing commentators say they want her back or she deserves to be back here aside from the original journo.

Trump has actually said Europe should go back and round up everyone who left them and take them for trial!!