CPA (Club Players Association)

Started by ck, October 18, 2016, 12:02:38 AM

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thewobbler

Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.
county boards biggest source of income is the gate from club games

In hiding

Quote from: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

i think this is an incredibly arrogant opinion. If your club had 4 or 5 county footballers would you be happy enough for your senior team "to just get on with it" as you put it. If you would be happy enough then helping your club footballers be successful doesn't seem to be a priority for you. If teams were made play away without their county men, how many fringe panellists would walk away from the county panel ?

thewobbler

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 24, 2017, 05:18:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.
county boards biggest source of income is the gate from club games

I'm genuinely not sure of the point you're trying to make... but I'd expect that your county board is propped up by fundraising and sponsorship, and there's a healthy chance you generate more in league fees than you do from club gate receipts.

thewobbler

Quote from: In hiding on January 24, 2017, 05:35:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

i think this is an incredibly arrogant opinion. If your club had 4 or 5 county footballers would you be happy enough for your senior team "to just get on with it" as you put it. If you would be happy enough then helping your club footballers be successful doesn't seem to be a priority for you. If teams were made play away without their county men, how many fringe panellists would walk away from the county panel ?

We've been there and done that in Down. It was annoying, but we played football all summer long and people were generally okay about it.



You're clearly in the camp who are quite happy to ask high quality players to serve two masters throughout the summer. Play twice a week and train 5 times a week. Or else play a condensed high octane county championship then be expected to give all and do likewise for the club immediately after.

Which means player welfare isn't high on your agenda.

I'd prefer to be arrogant, thanks.

In hiding

Quote from: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 05:44:10 PM
Quote from: In hiding on January 24, 2017, 05:35:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

i think this is an incredibly arrogant opinion. If your club had 4 or 5 county footballers would you be happy enough for your senior team "to just get on with it" as you put it. If you would be happy enough then helping your club footballers be successful doesn't seem to be a priority for you. If teams were made play away without their county men, how many fringe panellists would walk away from the county panel ?

We've been there and done that in Down. It was annoying, but we played football all summer long and people were generally okay about it.



You're clearly in the camp who are quite happy to ask high quality players to serve two masters throughout the summer. Play twice a week and train 5 times a week. Or else play a condensed high octane county championship then be expected to give all and do likewise for the club immediately after.

Which means player welfare isn't high on your agenda.

I'd prefer to be arrogant, thanks.
Clearly in the camp.  There is that arrogance again.
My biggest issue is that county players in Tyrone (can't speak for any other county), finish a tough campaign with the county and then are rushed straight into club championship. That gap between competitions can only be increased by shortening the county season. Your argument that county players should be left to county football only from November until possibly August or September won't work in an amateur game. As you know, county players are also club players and enjoy playing football with their brothers, cousins and friends. No one is asking for players of any quality to train 5 times a week or play twice a week. What I am asking for is system whereby the best players are available to play for both club and county in important games and given adequate time to prepare. Currently its only a club championship immediately after county because a 32 team knockout competition takes 20 weeks to run

The Trap

If the CPA were forced eventually to call a strike then the GAA would be greatly affected as county players are club players and I am sure most have joined the CPA. Would they walk past their club mates to play for the county? I don't think they would. The county game would be seriously affected, revenues massively down and the top brass would have to listen.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that but be arrogant about the CPA at your peril. Those like the wobbler who are only county followers could find out how important the clubs are yet!

thewobbler

Quote from: The Trap on January 24, 2017, 09:30:36 PM
If the CPA were forced eventually to call a strike then the GAA would be greatly affected as county players are club players and I am sure most have joined the CPA. Would they walk past their club mates to play for the county? I don't think they would. The county game would be seriously affected, revenues massively down and the top brass would have to listen.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that but be arrogant about the CPA at your peril. Those like the wobbler who are only county followers could find out how important the clubs are yet!

Lol. I'm as close to that description as Down are to winning an All Ireland.

Having an open enough mind to understand what's good for county players is becoming a real illness at a lot of clubs. Hopefully I can avoid that disease.

The Trap

well I suppose the county v club issue doesn't really affect down people as it is usually all over by JUne apart from 2010..........or because Killop put club first.......

Hound

Good article by Sean Moran today

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/se%C3%A1n-moran-cpa-approach-to-championship-reform-is-puzzling-1.2949160

QuoteCPA approach to championship reform is puzzling

Asked on his deathbed to renounce Satan, the man in the anecdote says: "this is no time to be making enemies". For an organisation that was launched to unanimous goodwill the newly launched Club Players' Association (CPA) haven't been reticent about taking issue with other stakeholders within the GAA.

Despite a welcoming message on its formation from the Gaelic Players' Association, the latter was described from the top table at the CPA launch as "a disaster for the GAA in general".

Then for all the courteous acknowledgement of director general Páraic Duffy's role in recognising their fledgling organisation and his engagement with them, the CPA's decision to make public their opposition to his championship reform proposals on the day that he launches his annual report might be seen as either unfortunate or aggressive timing.

Duffy didn't appear unduly concerned during his media conference in Croke Park on Tuesday morning, pointing out that they weren't his proposals at this stage, having been endorsed and promoted by Central Council.

It can be argued that if they are sufficiently concerned about the proposals, then the timing of their announcement isn't the most important consideration but from an observer's perspective it's hard to work out the CPA's thinking. After all, some measure of diplomacy might be advisable given that there is another item on the congress agenda that affects them even more directly - motions to recognise their new organisation.

Congress delegates will in some cases be already wary about the prospect of another players' body setting up - no matter how laudable its aims - without that organisation calling within weeks of its launch for motions to be withdrawn from the clár because they pre-date the CPA's establishment.

Put another way it's hard enough to get things through congress without making delegates jumpy.

Under the Duffy proposals the All-Ireland finals would have to be played in August, leaving September free for club activity. But the CPA is already on record as saying that this doesn't go far enough with association founder and secretary Declan Brennan adding that he personally would like the All-Irelands concluded a month earlier.

The point appears to be that if what are seen as the limited improvement of the Duffy reforms get the go-ahead, driving more radical proposals won't be possible for a number of years.

Yet is this realistic?

Duffy was sceptical. "They say that if these proposals are passed, there'll be no change until 2019 at the earliest. By then it could be too late. This needs to be sorted now. If you want to sort it now, why would you park it? The two things appear a little bit contradictory. Now means this year's Congress."

A year ago a proposal to bring the All-Irelands forward by two weeks failed to get the necessary majority. It didn't fail by much, attracting the support of 61 per cent of delegates but for the 39 per cent opposed, the main argument was that the loss of September - described by one opponent as "Gaelic games month in Ireland" - would be a major blow to the GAA's promotional capacity.

How likely it would be to expect support for effectively vacating August as well is - at best - open to question.

The CPA's substantive concerns about the actual round-robin format proposed by Duffy for the quarter-finals of the All-Ireland football championship focus on the additional matches even though the format is linked to reducing the length of the season.

That's a matter for discussion but another principal argument is that the idea is "detrimental towards hurling," is fairly tenuous when the round-robin format would add just one weekend to the football quarter-finals.

The All-Ireland hurling semi-finals would each be played on the same weekend as a round of football matches but this isn't unusual - last August, the drawn Kilkenny-Waterford semi-final was the day after a double bill of football quarter-finals without that diluting any of the rapturous reaction.

Anyone present at the launch of the CPA would readily have accepted the association's bona fides and the clarity with which the impact of the fixtures crisis on clubs was expressed as well as the potential for a well-organised group to help maintain a focus on the situation is obvious.

If there is a reservation, however, it relates to what can be seen as an over-emphasis on the power of Croke Park to remedy this with a top-down policy. If it were possible to effect this, it would have been done by now and a long time ago.

For example, when a raft of proposals went before last year's congress with a view to ameliorating the fixtures' problem from the point of view of both burnout and club schedules, it had originated in a survey conducted on Duffy's initiative of no fewer than SEVEN reports completed in the previous 12 years by an array of committees, work groups and task forces.

At one point during the CPA launch it was suggested that Croke Park be in charge of fixtures for the entire country - something that no amateur sports organisation would be in a position to implement.

In Monday's statement there was further evidence of this approach in the reference to the proposed fixtures think tank, whose "remit will be to report back within a fixed time-frame with a programme and principles that create uniformity and help county boards who are unfairly often in the firing line."

It is county boards who are charged with providing an adequate schedule of matches and yet in some cases at the drop of a hat suspend club fixtures. It is county boards who have the power to regulate the season in an optimal or at least more satisfactory fashion - as Aaron Kernan of the CPA explained was the case in his own county of Armagh.

The CPA's proposed 'Fixtures Think Tank' can consult and confer with the GAA to construct a platform of proposals on which counties can base sustainable club schedules but it can only be a template, which will have to be implemented locally.

Ideas at national level have never been the problem; implementation in the counties has. Taking issue with proposed reforms "that don't go far enough" won't lessen the need to organise on the ground and confront the problem at source.

magpie seanie

Quote from: thewobbler on January 24, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Sadly folks the whole purpose of a union is to be able to cause disruption should their terms not be met. The inbuilt threat of a strike was actually enough in the GPA's case.

There's very little a CPA can do Seanie apart from go on strike.

It's for from impossible to get a motion to Congress either. The hardest part is getting it though your own county... for let's be honest, on the majority of issues, any given county is a pretty solid snapshot of how the overall organisation thinks.

County boards represent and are made up of their clubs. Which brings me back to how I started on this thread a few months ago.

If the clubs actually had a will to fulfil fixtures all summer long, a will "to get on with it", then much of the current malaise would go away.

In Sligo there are hefty fines imposed if fixtures are not fulfilled. More clubs have one or no county players so it suits them so anyone producing county players has no choice but to "get on with it". Then you're rushed into the championship with no break to try an prepare a team by integrating players you haven't had all year. Clubs are punished for producing county players which Wobbler seems happy enough with.

Club football and hurling is not just the backbone - it's the entire body of the GAA. The intercounty game is the cherry on top but sadly the tail is very much wagging the dog (apologies for multiple mixed metaphors!!).

Croí na hÉireann

I can take or leave Sean Moran. Kieran Shannon is usually on the money.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/the-gaa-needs-2020-vision-440657.html

KIERAN SHANNON: The GAA needs 2020 vision
   
Wednesday, January 25, 2017By Kieran Shannon
It was impossible not to have some empathy and even sympathy for Páraic Duffy yesterday morning.


Hours before facing the national media in Croke Park, the GAA's director general would have learned the Club Players Association had called on him to withdraw his blueprint for a reformatted football championship ahead of Congress next month.

Duffy put an awful lot of thought – and indeed imagination – into drafting that proposal. He put even more time and thought into advancing a strident case for it, with the Croke Park press office issuing a slickly- presented 40-page document for all interested parties illustrating how the new fixtures could be rolled out and impressively answering some concerns or criticisms his proposal might prompt.

In recent months he's travelled all around the country, meeting county boards and other relevant bodies. No wonder he described himself as being "disappointed", whatever about "surprised", by the CPA's call to basically shelve his proposals.
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Think of when or if you were a college student and being told that thesis you invested so much time and energy into should be "parked", probably never to be marked or approved. You wouldn't like it. Actually, you'd be quite thick about it, a bit like Duffy was yesterday.

But the CPA are right. He should withdraw it. Or if he doesn't, it should be defeated.

Leave aside the CPA for a moment. The GPA has just appointed a new chief executive, Dermot Earley. They could not have appointed a more respectable and measured individual. At his first press conference in the role Earley made it clear the biggest issue for him would be helping devise a significant change to the football championship structure. He would be canvassing players for their views. His own personal opinion was Duffy's proposal didn't go far enough.

Clearly, Earley and the body he represents want to revisit the championship format, regardless of what happens at Congress next month. So surely it would be better for them to have some more time to consult or be consulted instead of Duffy's proposal being pushed and rushed through and institutionalising another ad-hoc measure for them and all of us to be burdened with?

Take Duffy's proposed Super Eight format – our term, not his – where All-Ireland quarter- finals are replaced by two round-robin groups of four teams. If Duffy's proposal is passed at Congress next month, the GPA and the GAA and everyone else are tied – married – to that Super Eight format for at least five years; even if there were to be further adjustments to the championship format in the intervening years, it would be deemed too soon to judge the success of that Super Eight format.

Yet such a series of games would take a month to complete, when right now the CPA are internally considering the possibility of a schedule of inter-county games in which all counties would play the same number of games up to the All Ireland semi-final stages. That's the other thing: just as Earley has just been appointed, the CPA has just been founded. A fundamental premise it and the GAA has to establish is whether there should be separate seasons for the inter-county game and the club championship.

Many CPA members are in favour of such a demarcation. Paudie Butler isn't, instead favouring something like how rugby has a club window followed by an international one followed by a club one again. (The journalist and Cuala hurler Shane Stapleton is of a similar viewpoint, yesterday tweeting an outline of how it could work. February – inter-county provincial competitions. March – club only. April-May – All-Ireland series with two groups of seven in hurling, four groups of eight in football. June – club only. July to mid-August – All-Ireland quarter-finals, semi-finals, finals. September to mid- November – club only.)

It's a necessary – and healthy – dialogue the CPA has to have with its own members and the GAA itself. Yet, in a way, Duffy is already restricting that debate by implying it doesn't really matter; if his proposal is passed, then his way is the way it'll have to be.There's a more fundamental reason why Duffy's proposal should be parked. You can't just review and alter the senior football championship format in isolation because of how it impacts on so much else. The bigger picture needs to be looked at. Virtually every competitive structure needs to be looked at.

At the moment the Hurling Development Committee is not just looking at ways to improve and reformat the senior hurling championship but a complete vision for the game, from when a lad goes into a local development squad right through to playing senior hurling with his county. Instead of tweaking this competition and this competition, they're looking at an overall holistic approach to the game: what do we want for that young lad?

At the moment, if he's playing Fitzgibbon and senior inter-county hurling, he's being dragged every which way. The Munster Council is telling his county still have to fulfil a Waterford Crystal game. Derek McGrath has pointed out the current league format overburdens young players involved in third-level competitions. Should there be league hurling in February? Should there be any league hurling at all? Would championship hurling be better off being played on a round-robin format?

Recently Colin Ryan outlined one of the reasons why he's enjoying playing soccer this year instead of committing another year to the Clare hurlers.

"There is no three-month build-up and three-week post-mortem; when the game is over, we know we have another one the following week, so win or lose, we move on quickly," he explained to the Sunday Independent's Marie Crowe.

One of the key learning points the HDC have taken from the Celtic Challenge for U17 players is players, coaches and administrators prefer having a schedule of games in which they know when they're playing, who they're playing and when they're playing. It's why they're likely to recommend some form of round-robin system within the provinces.

Duffy's proposal has been a worthwhile discussion document, further advancing and legitimising the idea of a more condensed season in which the All-Ireland finals would be played in August. But instead of trying to railroad it through, he would be best taking another piece of advice from the CPA. Set up a fixtures think tank, a high-powered, over-arching committee.

Have Earley there representing the GPA. Have, say, Liam Griffin, the fixtures co-ordinator for the CPA, a man who will look to improve the county game and not just the club game, and as someone who both managed and played for his county footballers as well as hurlers, appreciates both codes.

Have representation from third-level. Have someone representing the provincial councils but on the understanding the provincial councils are there to serve the game and the competitions are not there just to serve the provincial councils.

Ask basic questions. Can we reform the football championship without looking at the league? What is the purpose of the league in 2017? Are we still working off the assumption it is basically warm-up for championship or that for many counties it is just as important as championship?

Can we guarantee a better series of meaningful games for all county players, when Duffy's proposal advocates that 16 football counties are finished by the second week of June? Challenge all assumptions. The primary reason we had a knockout championship for over 100 years wasn't because the founding members of the GAA had a considered debate about the respective merits of a do-or-die format and that of a more league-based, round-robin system.

It was largely because transport was so limited in those early days. Does that apply now? The GAA needs a 2020 vision. Better to take another few months to see that bigger, better picture rather than institutionalising the ad-hoc once again.
Westmeath - Home of the Christy Ring Cup...

magpie seanie

Excellent common sense piece. Duffy's ego and commercial needs will ensure the "Super Eights" get rammed through though.

Croí na hÉireann

Yeah I think Duffy has lost touch. He's trying to keep so many plates spinning in the air (many of them started by the GPA) that he's completely forgotten what the association is supposed to stand for.
Westmeath - Home of the Christy Ring Cup...

Owenmoresider

Quote from: magpie seanie on January 25, 2017, 10:12:21 AM
Excellent common sense piece. Duffy's ego and commercial needs will ensure the "Super Eights" get rammed through though.
Yep, Duffy has a lot to answer for in how he has conducted his job since taking over, the difference between him and his predecessor is stark. He also of course has McKenna whispering in his ear and no doubt will dance to whatever tune is suggested there.

Good piece by Shannon though, this all needs to be teased out rather than bulldozed through.