The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

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RadioGAAGAA

#15150
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 07:59:56 AM
You either agree with 100% of their agenda or you are a racist and an idiot

But if you are a racist and an idiot, you are a racist and an idiot.

But I suppose - when the media in the States is so under the editorial control of their owners and thus only looking out for the interests of the 0.001%, then unfortunately folks cannot get distance and perspective to see they are getting taken for a ride.

[which then makes many not idiots, but unfortunate victims of circumstance]
i usse an speelchekor

J70

#15151
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 07:59:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2020, 07:09:11 AM
Immigration is part of the economic system. Demand for houses and schools increases economic growth . Unfortunately immigration puts pressure on infrasructure and eventually GOP roofers have to drive 2 hours to get to the job. Nothing lasts forever.

Mainstream Dems still think immigration is a humanitarian issue. Most of them work for the plutocrats.

In the UK the debate is the same.. Stop immigration . Don't change anything else. But the deplorables are pissed off about everything.

The question is for how long the plutocrats can plámás them.

Re-read the article

The guy is a lifelong Democrat and Union member who had voted for both Clinton and Obama

There is no room for him or his opinions in today's Democratic Party. You either agree with 100% of their agenda or you are a racist and an idiot

Yet the Democratic primary is all over the place in US terms of outlooks when it comes to economics and healthcare.

And on the other side of the aisle, an active and thorough purge of dissenters is still underway in the GOP. It's get on board the Trump right or wrong train, whether it's anti-immigrant, anti-muslim, anti- environment, anti-blue state, pro-conspiracy theory, pro- or indulgent-of-Trump personal corruption and self-enrichment.

Can't criticize or comment on his conduct, or you might alienate Trump, get a mean tweet or shoutout at one of his Dear Leader rallies, and lose the support of what is now HIS base.

J70

Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

whitey

Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

Lol....do you have any idea how condescending that statement is

It's these crazy policy positions that don't stand up to much scrutiny.

https://youtu.be/JtPQQjj01kM

Moving onto education.....do you think this guy should get his money back ?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-father-asks-elizabeth-warren-if-hes-going-to-get-his-money-back-after-paying-for-daughters-education

whitey

Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

Don't take my word for it

https://youtu.be/XXIuzVnD0uA

J70

#15155
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

Lol....do you have any idea how condescending that statement is

It's these crazy policy positions that don't stand up to much scrutiny.

https://youtu.be/JtPQQjj01kM

Moving onto education.....do you think this guy should get his money back ?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-father-asks-elizabeth-warren-if-hes-going-to-get-his-money-back-after-paying-for-daughters-education

Get over the condescension shite. Seriously.

We're not talking to him. We're talking about what he said in that article.

Are you "condescending" towards some far left college kid when you repeatedly zero in on some miniscule, irrelevant, pie-in-the-sky proposal like free sex changes for prisoners (something which has about zero chance of ever happening) as a stick to beat the Democrats with?

As for your links, I agree whole-heartedly with Maher. I'm rooting for Bloomburg or maybe Klobuchar, even though I disagree with them on certain things. I'll obviously vote for Bernie if he's the nominee, but IMO he has zero chance of winning a general election, just like last time. I've pointed that out repeatedly on this thread, where there's been plenty of chat that Bernie was screwed out of a possible presidency by the DNC (never forget that leaked question about lead in the water in Flint! ::)), that the right wing never even began their assault on him last time. By the time they're finished, he'll be the second coming of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Castro and Chairman Mao. Probably Hitler too given his (in US terms) attitudes towards Palestine.

And your ridiculing of Warren's abolish-student-debt solution ignores the fact that there is a massive real problem there to be addressed. Its not all archaeology or film school majors who can only get work as data entry clerks who are in trouble. The US college system is fucked up and punitively priced, in an age where every half-decent job demands at least a bachelor degree. Betsy DeVos and Trump have done zero to help in this regard. Mock Warren and the Dems all you want, but at least they're discussing it and trying to come up with solutions. And whatever solution anyone comes up with to offer relief to any problem is going to alienate some who managed to overcome the challenges. That's life. Whenever they inevitably raise the age for retirement, there's going to be a pissed-off cohort who just miss out.

J70

Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 01:00:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2020, 10:10:32 PM
That settles it then

He's stupid &/or a racist for not wanting what the Democrats are offering

I don't know what's inside his head.

Just pointing out that his stated rationale and motives do not stand up to much scrutiny.

Don't take my word for it

https://youtu.be/XXIuzVnD0uA

And...?

We all know how easy it is for Trump and the GOP to demagogue and fear monger on immigrants getting healthcare and the like, to tell people to blame muslims and illegals for all their problems.


whitey

So what do you tell the dad who worked extra shifts, drove old cars and didn't take vacations in order to  pay for his daughters college?

Why shouldn't he get his money back?

This debt forgiveness isn't a fringe position (like the sex change operations)-this a major policy position that will cost trillions of dollars.

J70

Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
So what do you tell the dad who worked extra shifts, drove old cars and didn't take vacations in order to  pay for his daughters college?

Why shouldn't he get his money back?

This debt forgiveness isn't a fringe position (like the sex change operations)-this a major policy position that will cost trillions of dollars.

I honestly don't know what the solution is.

But you have to start somewhere.

100% debt forgiveness has no chance of ever becoming law anyway, IMO. I'd probably go back to the idea of paying a certain percentage of your income for 15-20 years or whatever, with the government covering the rest. Omit the art or Greek and Roman history degrees from the programme if you wish. Regardless of what they do, SOME people are going to be pissed off.

What do YOU think should be done?

(I drive a ten year old car BTW, and myself and my wife are STILL paying off her student loans, 15 years after she finished!).

whitey

Interesting question

First of all I would haul all these colleges before a committee to detail exactly why their tuition costs what it does. (It shouldn't cost $72 K a year to go to Boston University)

Then I would tap their endowments to pay down 20% of the O/S debt

Next I would mandate the debt holders (institutions) to take a 20% haircut....this is unsecured debt. They knew what they were buying

I would then set up a system whereby the indebted student could work off the debt by providing community service-providing daycare to low income people, helping out in inner city schools, providing health and nutrition education to unhealthy people

I would cap the amount of debt a student can take on board-benchmark it to their earning potential

I would impose a one time tax on the 0.01%

That would only take care of what's outstanding today......draconian steps would need to be put in place to prevent this from EVER happening again


J70

Those sound very reasonable proposals to me whitey.

Maybe someone like Bloomberg would be the man to implement something along those kind of lines. ;)

seafoid

Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2020, 02:02:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
So what do you tell the dad who worked extra shifts, drove old cars and didn't take vacations in order to  pay for his daughters college?

Why shouldn't he get his money back?

This debt forgiveness isn't a fringe position (like the sex change operations)-this a major policy position that will cost trillions of dollars.

I honestly don't know what the solution is.

But you have to start somewhere.

100% debt forgiveness has no chance of ever becoming law anyway, IMO. I'd probably go back to the idea of paying a certain percentage of your income for 15-20 years or whatever, with the government covering the rest. Omit the art or Greek and Roman history degrees from the programme if you wish. Regardless of what they do, SOME people are going to be pissed off.

What do YOU think should be done?

(I drive a ten year old car BTW, and myself and my wife are STILL paying off her student loans, 15 years after she finished!).

Debt can be reduced to nothing with inflation.
There was a big debt overhang in 1945 that was reduced consistently until 1960
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

Detroit recently ran out of money.

Kelvyn Orr was charged with finding a solution.
He offered debtholders 20% on the dollar. I think they ended up with 30%.
Most debt is owned by the 1%
Most debt now will not be repaid in full. They tore the
arse out of it. The Fed did too.

https://youtu.be/SYs2HHYqmxw
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Eamonnca1

#15163
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

omaghjoe

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 24, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2020, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 20, 2020, 10:40:56 PM
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

I'm just happy they've stopped calling him Mayor Pete

I wouldn't write off a Democratic candidate in a big hurry tho, I think they have a very good chance.

Also Bloomberg has no interest in the Democratic party whatsoever, only himself. In fact I could actually see him running as an independent.