Tyrone v Monaghan the battle for Ulster’s heart aisf 2018

Started by rrhf, August 05, 2018, 06:09:52 PM

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straightred

Quote from: trailer on August 14, 2018, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 10:13:29 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 14, 2018, 09:29:25 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 09:24:24 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 14, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on August 14, 2018, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: Jayop on August 14, 2018, 01:41:06 AM
Just watching it back now and hadn't noticed the deliberate trip on colm after ten minutes. Should have been a black.

I called this right after the game if you go back about 12 pages. I thought it was unbelievable that a BC wasn't produced. The ref blew for the free so it wasn't as if he didn't see it.

It was a text book BC decision.

I'm not saying that you're not correct but I just don't remember the incident that you are referring to.
Is it the incident down the corner of the cusack and davin. I didn't think much of it at the time and a BC never crossed my mind,. However, for the purposes of the debate i'll give you the benefit and say it was - they get to bring a sub on anyway so its hardly critical. The uselessness of the BC - that's a whole different thread.

I think the point is that there is a fair bit of talk about McNamee's potential BC. But not as much about the potential Monaghan one. Both were clear black cards in my book.
For me its yet another attempt to argue that the ref somehow balanced the books with bad decisions. As Paul Kimmage might say "He did in his b*ll*x". Its not just this match either. Its happens regularly and you then get the same old rubbish spouted out afterwards that he was bad but it didn't affect the result. Why not tell it as it is and admit that it did affect the result. He 100% influenced the result on Sunday. He got a series of critical decisions wrong and a number of these led directly to Tyrone scores (a significantly greater number than those that led to Monaghan scores). I wonder will Tyrone folks be so level headed the next time they are shafted by an incompetent ref (because it will happen - sooner or later). I hope some young refs coming through are given an opportunity as this fellow has had his chances

Great teams never complain about the ref. No team ever gets every decision. If this is the Monaghan psyche (and I think it is, given MO'R's comments) then they will never be serious contenders. They were beaten by a team operating at around 60% - 70%. And I'd imagine that hurts, as they probably believed (wrongly) that they could overcome Tyrone, but reality is they're probably 4-5 players short.
we'll agree to differ. The post match story is always written from the winners perspective. The margins are tiny. If the ref had give that free in the end and it went to extra time with monaghan winning or even a replay it would be a whole different conversation. Gievn that the ref made far bigger mistakes in the match he easily could have done so. E.g. one story might have been that starting Brennan as opposed to springing him from the bench didn't work out very well. They might want to look at that one again for the final

every team no matter how great they are complains about the ref if its justified. Many complain anyway.

trueblue1234

Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 10:59:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 14, 2018, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 10:13:29 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 14, 2018, 09:29:25 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 09:24:24 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 14, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on August 14, 2018, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: Jayop on August 14, 2018, 01:41:06 AM
Just watching it back now and hadn't noticed the deliberate trip on colm after ten minutes. Should have been a black.

I called this right after the game if you go back about 12 pages. I thought it was unbelievable that a BC wasn't produced. The ref blew for the free so it wasn't as if he didn't see it.

It was a text book BC decision.

I'm not saying that you're not correct but I just don't remember the incident that you are referring to.
Is it the incident down the corner of the cusack and davin. I didn't think much of it at the time and a BC never crossed my mind,. However, for the purposes of the debate i'll give you the benefit and say it was - they get to bring a sub on anyway so its hardly critical. The uselessness of the BC - that's a whole different thread.

I think the point is that there is a fair bit of talk about McNamee's potential BC. But not as much about the potential Monaghan one. Both were clear black cards in my book.
For me its yet another attempt to argue that the ref somehow balanced the books with bad decisions. As Paul Kimmage might say "He did in his b*ll*x". Its not just this match either. Its happens regularly and you then get the same old rubbish spouted out afterwards that he was bad but it didn't affect the result. Why not tell it as it is and admit that it did affect the result. He 100% influenced the result on Sunday. He got a series of critical decisions wrong and a number of these led directly to Tyrone scores (a significantly greater number than those that led to Monaghan scores). I wonder will Tyrone folks be so level headed the next time they are shafted by an incompetent ref (because it will happen - sooner or later). I hope some young refs coming through are given an opportunity as this fellow has had his chances

Great teams never complain about the ref. No team ever gets every decision. If this is the Monaghan psyche (and I think it is, given MO'R's comments) then they will never be serious contenders. They were beaten by a team operating at around 60% - 70%. And I'd imagine that hurts, as they probably believed (wrongly) that they could overcome Tyrone, but reality is they're probably 4-5 players short.
we'll agree to differ. The post match story is always written from the winners perspective. The margins are tiny. If the ref had give that free in the end and it went to extra time with monaghan winning or even a replay it would be a whole different conversation. Gievn that the ref made far bigger mistakes in the match he easily could have done so. E.g. one story might have been that starting Brennan as opposed to springing him from the bench didn't work out very well. They might want to look at that one again for the final

every team no matter how great they are complains about the ref if its justified. Many complain anyway.

Did you think it was a free for Hughes? I honestly didn't see that as one of the controversial decisions as I felt it was 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. I would have been p1ssed of it he had of given a free in for that.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

straightred

Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 14, 2018, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 10:59:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 14, 2018, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 10:13:29 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 14, 2018, 09:29:25 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 09:24:24 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 14, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on August 14, 2018, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: Jayop on August 14, 2018, 01:41:06 AM
Just watching it back now and hadn't noticed the deliberate trip on colm after ten minutes. Should have been a black.

I called this right after the game if you go back about 12 pages. I thought it was unbelievable that a BC wasn't produced. The ref blew for the free so it wasn't as if he didn't see it.

It was a text book BC decision.

I'm not saying that you're not correct but I just don't remember the incident that you are referring to.
Is it the incident down the corner of the cusack and davin. I didn't think much of it at the time and a BC never crossed my mind,. However, for the purposes of the debate i'll give you the benefit and say it was - they get to bring a sub on anyway so its hardly critical. The uselessness of the BC - that's a whole different thread.

I think the point is that there is a fair bit of talk about McNamee's potential BC. But not as much about the potential Monaghan one. Both were clear black cards in my book.
For me its yet another attempt to argue that the ref somehow balanced the books with bad decisions. As Paul Kimmage might say "He did in his b*ll*x". Its not just this match either. Its happens regularly and you then get the same old rubbish spouted out afterwards that he was bad but it didn't affect the result. Why not tell it as it is and admit that it did affect the result. He 100% influenced the result on Sunday. He got a series of critical decisions wrong and a number of these led directly to Tyrone scores (a significantly greater number than those that led to Monaghan scores). I wonder will Tyrone folks be so level headed the next time they are shafted by an incompetent ref (because it will happen - sooner or later). I hope some young refs coming through are given an opportunity as this fellow has had his chances

Great teams never complain about the ref. No team ever gets every decision. If this is the Monaghan psyche (and I think it is, given MO'R's comments) then they will never be serious contenders. They were beaten by a team operating at around 60% - 70%. And I'd imagine that hurts, as they probably believed (wrongly) that they could overcome Tyrone, but reality is they're probably 4-5 players short.
we'll agree to differ. The post match story is always written from the winners perspective. The margins are tiny. If the ref had give that free in the end and it went to extra time with monaghan winning or even a replay it would be a whole different conversation. Gievn that the ref made far bigger mistakes in the match he easily could have done so. E.g. one story might have been that starting Brennan as opposed to springing him from the bench didn't work out very well. They might want to look at that one again for the final

every team no matter how great they are complains about the ref if its justified. Many complain anyway.

Did you think it was a free for Hughes? I honestly didn't see that as one of the controversial decisions as I felt it was 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. I would have been p1ssed of it he had of given a free in for that.
The defender had both hands on him initially but there wasn't much in it. It would have been harsh but in the context of the 2 that he gave harte and cavanagh (which both resulted in pointed frees) then he should have given it. At least there was some contact - there was none in the other 2.

smort

Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 11:25:30 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 14, 2018, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 10:59:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 14, 2018, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 10:13:29 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 14, 2018, 09:29:25 AM
Quote from: straightred on August 14, 2018, 09:24:24 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 14, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on August 14, 2018, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: Jayop on August 14, 2018, 01:41:06 AM
Just watching it back now and hadn't noticed the deliberate trip on colm after ten minutes. Should have been a black.

I called this right after the game if you go back about 12 pages. I thought it was unbelievable that a BC wasn't produced. The ref blew for the free so it wasn't as if he didn't see it.

It was a text book BC decision.

I'm not saying that you're not correct but I just don't remember the incident that you are referring to.
Is it the incident down the corner of the cusack and davin. I didn't think much of it at the time and a BC never crossed my mind,. However, for the purposes of the debate i'll give you the benefit and say it was - they get to bring a sub on anyway so its hardly critical. The uselessness of the BC - that's a whole different thread.

I think the point is that there is a fair bit of talk about McNamee's potential BC. But not as much about the potential Monaghan one. Both were clear black cards in my book.
For me its yet another attempt to argue that the ref somehow balanced the books with bad decisions. As Paul Kimmage might say "He did in his b*ll*x". Its not just this match either. Its happens regularly and you then get the same old rubbish spouted out afterwards that he was bad but it didn't affect the result. Why not tell it as it is and admit that it did affect the result. He 100% influenced the result on Sunday. He got a series of critical decisions wrong and a number of these led directly to Tyrone scores (a significantly greater number than those that led to Monaghan scores). I wonder will Tyrone folks be so level headed the next time they are shafted by an incompetent ref (because it will happen - sooner or later). I hope some young refs coming through are given an opportunity as this fellow has had his chances

Great teams never complain about the ref. No team ever gets every decision. If this is the Monaghan psyche (and I think it is, given MO'R's comments) then they will never be serious contenders. They were beaten by a team operating at around 60% - 70%. And I'd imagine that hurts, as they probably believed (wrongly) that they could overcome Tyrone, but reality is they're probably 4-5 players short.
we'll agree to differ. The post match story is always written from the winners perspective. The margins are tiny. If the ref had give that free in the end and it went to extra time with monaghan winning or even a replay it would be a whole different conversation. Gievn that the ref made far bigger mistakes in the match he easily could have done so. E.g. one story might have been that starting Brennan as opposed to springing him from the bench didn't work out very well. They might want to look at that one again for the final

every team no matter how great they are complains about the ref if its justified. Many complain anyway.

Did you think it was a free for Hughes? I honestly didn't see that as one of the controversial decisions as I felt it was 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. I would have been p1ssed of it he had of given a free in for that.
The defender had both hands on him initially but there wasn't much in it. It would have been harsh but in the context of the 2 that he gave harte and cavanagh (which both resulted in pointed frees) then he should have given it. At least there was some contact - there was none in the other 2.

In the Harte incident, both players had hit the ground but Peter was up and away from his man and would more than likely scored anyway

clarshack

Mattie Donnelly got a free around the 42nd min mark which McAliskey converted. IIRC Beggan was claiming there was a double bounce from Mattie before he was fouled. i haven't been able to see the incident since. just wondering if there was anything to it?

omagh_gael

I was in section 327 on 13m line in lower Hogan. From our view we couldn't see the ball squirm out towards Sludden and our first notion of a goal chance was when it hit the back of the net. Mighty stuff!

It reminded me of how big decisions and lucky breaks tend to even themselves out over the year. James McCarthy's goal against us in Omagh was after Morgan made a great save, the ball could have went anywhere but popped up perfectly for McCarthy to punch it in when on the ground. Karma at it's finest.

Not much else to say that hasn't been said already. Some final thoughts for me are...

- During and immediately after the game I was shocked at the level of focus on the ref's bias towards Tyrone. You could tell that they got a number of dodgy decisions against them but in the Tyrone section many around me felt that we were rid a few times too. I don't think this was a major factor and overall Monaghan may have a slight case for one or two poorer calls. One we can all agree on was the injury time, couldn't believe it when I seen 3 minutes. That was a poor call.

- There was a serious amount of jeering and booing from the Monaghan fans during the game towards free takers on the Tyrone side. This started from the very first free so it can't be all passed off as frustration with the ref.

- Both these teams were setting a record on Sunday for the number of joint games played in a championship season (18 including Sunday's game?) These games were squeezed into a time frame yet to be seen in a senior championship year and I feel this had a significant impact on the quality of the football on show. The game was very enjoyable and the atmosphere was electric coming down the stretch.


Schkite

I seen someone tweet before the game that everyone on both named teams had scored in the championship, surely a first.

Haven't double checked it but I wouldn't doubt it. I know both teams played alot of games and a few where they racked up big scores, but it's still fair going.

blewuporstuffed

There are certainly a couple of incidents monaghan can right feel agreived about. For me the lack of additional time being the major one. 3 minutes these days is unheard of.
The other two are the Cavanagh free, which I don't agree was a dive, but he certainly could have been blown for charging as James Mccarthy was the day before.
The other was the one on Harte, was was never a free, but as someone else has mentioned, Harte was up and away anyway and who knows how that attack would have ended.
The one at the end was never a free imo, despite kieran Hughes best efforts to manufacture one.
On the Tyrone side I thought there was also a couple of Incredibly soft frees given against them too. The two that come to mind was one on drew wylie that began missed and another that mcmanus converted.
The handtrip on CC was probably a black card offence by the book, but would probably been harsh at the same time.
The late body check on Cavanagh was probably similar to what mckieran got the black card for in the donegal game, but I wouldn't have any complaints about the yellow there
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

RedHand88

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 14, 2018, 01:10:00 PM
There are certainly a couple of incidents monaghan can right feel agreived about. For me the lack of additional time being the major one. 3 minutes these days is unheard of.
The other two are the Cavanagh free, which I don't agree was a dive, but he certainly could have been blown for charging as James Mccarthy was the day before.
The other was the one on Harte, was was never a free, but as someone else has mentioned, Harte was up and away anyway and who knows how that attack would have ended.
The one at the end was never a free imo, despite kieran Hughes best efforts to manufacture one.
On the Tyrone side I thought there was also a couple of Incredibly soft frees given against them too. The two that come to mind was one on drew wylie that began missed and another that mcmanus converted.
The handtrip on CC was probably a black card offence by the book, but would probably been harsh at the same time.
The late body check on Cavanagh was probably similar to what mckieran got the black card for in the donegal game, but I wouldn't have any complaints about the yellow there

They only want more time because they were chasing the game. 3 of the subs were during an injury break. 3 minutes was right, (infact he played 3 and a half!)

Yes the one on cavanagh was wrong to give. However, one thing which nobody seems to have noticed is the double bounce before monaghans 7th point in the first half. It was clear as day so it shouldn't have counted.

All in all I don't think monaghan have much to feel aggrieved over.

redcard

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on August 14, 2018, 01:10:00 PM
There are certainly a couple of incidents monaghan can right feel agreived about. For me the lack of additional time being the major one. 3 minutes these days is unheard of.
The other two are the Cavanagh free, which I don't agree was a dive, but he certainly could have been blown for charging as James Mccarthy was the day before.
The other was the one on Harte, was was never a free, but as someone else has mentioned, Harte was up and away anyway and who knows how that attack would have ended.
The one at the end was never a free imo, despite kieran Hughes best efforts to manufacture one.
On the Tyrone side I thought there was also a couple of Incredibly soft frees given against them too. The two that come to mind was one on drew wylie that began missed and another that mcmanus converted.
The handtrip on CC was probably a black card offence by the book, but would probably been harsh at the same time.
The late body check on Cavanagh was probably similar to what mckieran got the black card for in the donegal game, but I wouldn't have any complaints about the yellow there

The Harte injury was the only stoppage in the second half. I was expecting 2 minutes TBH. do you just play 6 or 7 minutes just for the sake of it?

RedHand88

Quote from: clarshack on August 14, 2018, 11:57:37 AM
Mattie Donnelly got a free around the 42nd min mark which McAliskey converted. IIRC Beggan was claiming there was a double bounce from Mattie before he was fouled. i haven't been able to see the incident since. just wondering if there was anything to it?

No, the double bounce was after the foul I'm nearly sure.

Jayop

There was three and a half minutes played not the three that were hearing over and over.

RedHand88

#627
Quote from: Jayop on August 14, 2018, 01:24:49 PM
There was three and a half minutes played not the three that were hearing over and over.

Exactly. It wasnt underplayed, it was overplayed. 3 subs during an injury means 20 seconds doesn't get added for each of those as time is stopped anyway.

Jayop

A lot of the subs were double subs too iirc.

One other thing that struck me was during the Dublin Galway game there were a few frees in given for clattering a player while the ball was going over the end line. Beggan did exactly that near the end and nothing given or mentioned as usual.

Main Street

Quote from: omagh_gael on August 14, 2018, 12:50:31 PM
I was in section 327 on 13m line in lower Hogan. From our view we couldn't see the ball squirm out towards Sludden and our first notion of a goal chance was when it hit the back of the net. Mighty stuff!

It reminded me of how big decisions and lucky breaks tend to even themselves out over the year. James McCarthy's goal against us in Omagh was after Morgan made a great save, the ball could have went anywhere but popped up perfectly for McCarthy to punch it in when on the ground. Karma at it's finest.
That doesn't remotely resemble karma, never mind karma at it's finest.