The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[Armamike]

If most of us are being honest, we know that the other lot will push ahead now till the end of the season, Ferguson doesn't do charity. Benitez is more than a tad cautious but the bottom line imo is the lack of quality in certain positions which is meaning that teams aren't being put away. Too much reliance on the likes of Gerard for goals when other midfielders and forwards should be chipping in. Lack of quality on the wings and a couple of strikers in Keane and Kuyt who don't score enough.  Add in the fact that midfielders like Alonso and Mascherano don't get forward enough but sit back, then it's not a great cocktail for scoring goals and killing off lesser sides, rather than handing them a point.  

[GalwayBayBoy]

Wonder what the odds on a 1-1 draw for Sunday are?

[The Real Laoislad]

If most of us are being honest, we know that the other lot will push ahead now till the end of the season, Ferguson doesn't do charity. Benitez is more than a tad cautious but the bottom line imo is the lack of quality in certain positions which is meaning that teams aren't being put away. Too much reliance on the likes of Gerard for goals when other midfielders and forwards should be chipping in. Lack of quality on the wings and a couple of strikers in Keane and Kuyt who don't score enough.  Add in the fact that midfielders like Alonso and Mascherano don't get forward enough but sit back, then it's not a great cocktail for scoring goals and killing off lesser sides, rather than handing them a point.  

So is it the players or the way they are being asked to play ?
I believe its the latter

[brokencrossbar1]

It is a very sorry situation to be in.  When you are 2 points off the top at the end of january you should feel confident, but there is nothing but gloom and ill feeling surrounding the team and club.  From a position of strenght they have let Man Utd into it.  Even allowing for United's good run Liverpool still should be clear by at least 8 points at this stage.  2 points dropped tonight and 6 against the teams AZ mentions and 2 last week against Everton.  That is 10 f**king points that have ben lost that should not have been lost.  The players must take responsiblity as well, but since Rafa went on his little tirade about Fergie things have slipped badly.

I have backed him over and over, but perhaps it is time to look at aa different approach.  if the new suitors pony up the money that they are supposed to have, I can't see them sticking with him, unless he pulls a rabbit out this year.  I fear he will not be able to.

In Rafa we don't really trust anymore.

[Minder]

Wonder what the odds on a 1-1 draw for Sunday are?

I wouldnt be surprised if we beat Chelsea on Sunday then lose away to Portsmouth in the league.

[The Real Laoislad]

Wonder what the odds on a 1-1 draw for Sunday are?

I wouldnt be surprised if we beat Chelsea on Sunday then lose away to Portsmouth in the league.

Na Pompy won't beat us,they will get a draw though 

[AZOffaly]

I think it's both Laoislad, with the emphasis on the latter. I have said it so often that corn's eyes probably bleed looking at it, but the likes of Kuyt, Benayoun, Lucas etc etc just give you little or nothing in terms of creativity.

However, even with them, if Rafa encouraged a possession, pass and move type game, Liverpool would be much better to watch, and in terms of getting wins instead of draws.

I'd like some better quality in the wide positions, but even with the lads that are there, feck sake, let them play when they have the ball. Rafa is spot on in terms of when Liverpool don't have the ball, but you nearly think he's more comfortable when we give it away so that we can get back to working hard and 'pressing' the opposition into mistakes. Liverpools most creative player is the opposition midfielder who is pressured into presenting Gerrard or Torres with a chance!

[corn02]

Right.

Ever since he took over and I read 'A season on the Brink' I have been a massive Benitez fan, defending him to the hilt. Tonight is the first time I have to question him.

I don't think he done too much wrong tonight bar taking off Gerrard. If you saw the match you would realise El Nino was very poor.

But as GBB says, his head isn't there at the moment. I don't know what is happening behind the scnens but he will leave in the summer. People like to have a go at him, they criticise him for not playing Keanen even though he has averaged 78 minutes this season, and has been very poor. People say he is too conservative but a look through United's stats shows that Ferguson has also took off attacking players for more conservative when leading narrowly. (Villa, Middlesborough and Wigan).

But things are not right and he is feeling the strain. Gerrard should have stayed on the field and perhaps Skrtl sacrificed for the final few minutes. Wigan hitting the bar probably shows that can be risky too.

I think if Rafa goes we will be set back another few years. People say he is not good enough to win the Premier League, I disagree. A stupiud tackle, bad marking etc can't really be levelled at the manager. Indivisual errors have cost us dearly. But my belief that he can win it is dwindling, I'll admit that.

The thing is, our performances this year has been poor. And while people say we are in this position only because United had a poor start is fair enough, but it means United went through a spell like this as well.

But he is too conservative-- Stoke springs to mind. I remember earlier in the season, Wigan  or Boro, I thinkwe had four strikers on the pitch at the end and we won it, looks impossible that he would repeat that.

Take a step back and we are in a very good position. Before the season started I think most claimed to be in the title race would be a brilliant achievement this season. We are two off top and into the latter stages of Europe - not bad. The thing is, we relaistically could have been in  a much better position.

It really is season on a brink 2 for Rafa. I'll support the manager while he is in charge, but if things don't buck up he will lose the support that has been very loyal to him to be fair.

Everyone on here knows what I think about Kuyt and I am certainly on my lonesome by the sounds of things. I am not foolish enough to suggest he has been brilliant lately, he hasn't. But when you come on here and read about him"making people vomit" it makes me vomit. He was on for a coupel of minutes and handled the ball in the box - ok mistake, but players make mistakes. He played an absolutely superb ball but nobody mentioned that.

It is just indicative of Liverpool fans that some players won;t get a fair deal. Torres was pretty horrible tonight, but there will be little mention of that, Gerrad was very poor in the second, won;t hear much about that. Kuyt has 10 minutes when he does one bad thing and one brilliant thing and people are making comments like that. I defend him too much, but some of the stick he gets is crazy.

I say I have seen 99% of our games this year and there have been very few were we have played well. Cheslsea, United, West Brom and Bolton are the stand-out games. We have actually played decent in some of the games we played poorly. I thought we were good tonight, verygood at Spurs, good against Hull, Stoke at home.

The frustraion is growing in me, 19 looks miles off nopw, but there is still a lot of ball top be played yet so who knows?

I think it is crazy when peopled eclare us out of the race with things so close and so much games left, but it is looking unlikely going on past form.

After the match tonight the first thing someone said to me was, Rafas rant is costing us. Ok, I was happy enough at the time, but it doesn;t look good tonight. But to suggest Lucas was thinking about it when he made that tacjkle, or Skrtl was thinking about it when he was tracking Cahill is a bit crazy for me. But who knoiws? It may have impacted the players.

Overall things could not be more disappointing, there was a chance there and Rafa needs to turn things around. As I say I like him and I will support him until he goes, but his stock value is dropping.

[Doogie Browser]

Tonight has signalled a major mood shift on this thread, normally staunch Rafa defenders are now questioning his tactics and wisdom.  Does seem bizarre that he took off Gerrard, the man is usually their 'go to' player when they need something and he is on the bench.
From a Villa point of view I am delighted, Van Persie's late goal has kept Arsenal and Everton at arms length for now.  Chelsea v Liverpool for a draw on Sunday now please.  

[Over the Bar]

As an outsider it seems that Gerrard can probably take as much, if not more credit that Benitez for you being top of the league until after Christmas.

[AZOffaly]

Overall things could not be more disappointing, there was a chance there and Rafa needs to turn things around. As I say I like him and I will support him until he goes, but his stock value is dropping.

I have time for him too, but I think he is just wired that way, and he's not going to change.

I will support any man who puts on the Liverpool jersey, or who is involved with the team. That doesn't mean I suspend my option to criticise if they are bad, or if I think silly things are being done. It's only my opinion, I doubt Rafa gives a spanish shite, but I don't think he can or will make the required changes in his attitude for Liverpool to win a title. Cups, yes, it's obvious why. English titles, nope, I don't think so.

[corn02]

Sorry for the spelling in my post by the way, quickly typed.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

As a matter of interest, how many points are we better off this season than last, in relation to our own performance. I see f*ck all improvement, except that United and Chelsea were worse than usual in the first few months. Liverpool will finish +10 behind United.

After an hour searching - here was the table on Jan 13, 2008 (after a 1-1 draw away to Middlesboro - incidentally also 3rd league draw in a row -  we went on to draw the next one and then lose at West Ham)

1 Man Utd 22 51
2 Arsenal 22  51
3 Chelsea 22  47
4 Liverpool 21 39

[corn02]

Overall things could not be more disappointing, there was a chance there and Rafa needs to turn things around. As I say I like him and I will support him until he goes, but his stock value is dropping.

I have time for him too, but I think he is just wired that way, and he's not going to change.

I will support any man who puts on the Liverpool jersey, or who is involved with the team. That doesn't mean I suspend my option to criticise if they are bad, or if I think silly things are being done. It's only my opinion, I doubt Rafa gives a spanish shite, but I don't think he can or will make the required changes in his attitude for Liverpool to win a title. Cups, yes, it's obvious why. English titles, nope, I don't think so.

Hard to disagree.

Started the season with a more attacking brand and while we were playing poor, we were getting lucky and getting the results.

Litle by little he reverted to his old style and while the performance level has been the same, the results just aren't coming.

[corn02]

As a matter of interest, how many points are we better off this season than last, in relation to our own performance. I see f*ck all improvement, except that United and Chelsea were worse than usual in the first few months. Liverpool will finish +10 behind United.

After an hour searching - here was the table on Jan 13, 2008 (after a 1-1 draw away to Middlesboro - incidentally also 3rd league draw in a row -  we went on to draw the next one and then lose at West Ham)

1 Man Utd 22 51
2 Arsenal 22  51
3 Chelsea 22  47
4 Liverpool 21 39

f**k that is a litlle bit of cheer on a horrible night.