Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017

Started by Junior Ex Laoistalk, November 18, 2016, 01:47:15 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

BallyroanAbu

Quote from: Keyser Söze on June 05, 2017, 04:26:14 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 05, 2017, 03:58:37 PM
Quote from: Keyser Söze on June 05, 2017, 03:33:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 05, 2017, 03:11:10 PM

Whats going on at this grade will see chickens coming home to roost around 2026/27,no doubt it will be the Senior County Manager's fault then also.

There aren't too many, if any, on here saying that.


You seem to have missed the last 6 months on here then

Town 1980 and Ballyroan Abu will be on shortly

And you seem to have missed the point.

Both of them have criticised Creedon. So have I. Admittedly they have both at times leaned towards it being mostly his fault. But I don't think either have said it was Creedon and Creedon alone.

They main problem here on this issue for the past 6 months was that if anybody attempted to criticise Creedon, along came Tony telling us we were blind and that it wasn't Creedon's fault- it was everybody elses.

It was impossible to engage on the matter.
Just because it wasn't ALL Creedon's fault didn't mean we couldn't point out that he was and is doing a piss poor job. Yet any attempt to point this out was met by a chorus of "the fools, the fools, the fools, they don't know what they are speaking of".
Both Town1980 and BallyroanAbu were painted as such simply for pointing out the many disasters of this tenure.

We were told to reserve judgement until the league, then it was the latter stages of the league, then it was the championship. Presuming we won't improve 10 fold for the qualifiers, should we just wait until next years O' Byrne Cup? Just to be fair like.

Thank You for being fair, I don't really have an issue with anyone here we all want the same thing really.   I just think we need to grow up about how we do it.  Money is at the center of all this, we simply need more for GDA's, Facilities and Teams.  Laois may want to stay amateur but it's clear that alot of counties no longer are.  We are being left behind.  Get young managers, gda's stop wasting money on plugging holes.

clonadmad

#421
Quote from: BallyroanAbu on June 07, 2017, 09:44:08 AM
Quote from: Keyser Söze on June 05, 2017, 04:26:14 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 05, 2017, 03:58:37 PM
Quote from: Keyser Söze on June 05, 2017, 03:33:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 05, 2017, 03:11:10 PM

Whats going on at this grade will see chickens coming home to roost around 2026/27,no doubt it will be the Senior County Manager's fault then also.

There aren't too many, if any, on here saying that.


You seem to have missed the last 6 months on here then

Town 1980 and Ballyroan Abu will be on shortly

And you seem to have missed the point.

Both of them have criticised Creedon. So have I. Admittedly they have both at times leaned towards it being mostly his fault. But I don't think either have said it was Creedon and Creedon alone.

They main problem here on this issue for the past 6 months was that if anybody attempted to criticise Creedon, along came Tony telling us we were blind and that it wasn't Creedon's fault- it was everybody elses.

It was impossible to engage on the matter.
Just because it wasn't ALL Creedon's fault didn't mean we couldn't point out that he was and is doing a piss poor job. Yet any attempt to point this out was met by a chorus of "the fools, the fools, the fools, they don't know what they are speaking of".
Both Town1980 and BallyroanAbu were painted as such simply for pointing out the many disasters of this tenure.

We were told to reserve judgement until the league, then it was the latter stages of the league, then it was the championship. Presuming we won't improve 10 fold for the qualifiers, should we just wait until next years O' Byrne Cup? Just to be fair like.

Thank You for being fair, I don't really have an issue with anyone here we all want the same thing really.   I just think we need to grow up about how we do it.  Money is at the center of all this, we simply need more for GDA's, Facilities and Teams.  Laois may want to stay amateur but it's clear that alot of counties no longer are.  We are being left behind.  Get young managers, gda's stop wasting money on plugging holes.

The point is this

Creedon is the last point on the conveyor belt.

If Micko,Cody and Jim Gavin took over in the morning there is very little in the way of instant improvement they could make.

Laois football is facing an existential crisis from u12 up,in terms of its governance,funding and direction.

And I agree with Ballyroan Abu,it does boil down to money,but as someone involved in mainly juvenile hurling,the standard of coaching at that level leaves a lot to be desired,we could have 20 Gda's but if coaches won't adhere to best practice,we are at very little.

This has to be driven from both bottom up and top down.

BallyroanAbu

I think your wrong on that Clonad,  there would be an instant improvement.  I doubt they would get further than Div 2 but they would improve.  There is a lot wrong within our structures but Donie Kingston is prob in the top ten forwards in the country I would expect someone who knows what they are doing can build something around him.  But why should we accept being shit and stay there,  I would be more worried about that.  We are in a wonderful place if someone had the foresight to realize it,  simply put things can only get better.

Laoiseabu

I'd agree with Clonad . If Micko took over what would he do with our aging players, Quigley, Begley, Meaney , McMahon, Booth, Timmons, Donoher, Strong, Conway, Munnelly.  Micko can hardly wave a magic wand here. These lads have to be replaced soon and who is gonna replace them ? Things will get worse before better.

Laoiseabu

Not much more can be got out of them players at that end of the age spectrum is my point . So where is the division 2 potential in this team so?

Unlaoised

Was going to do my usual player rating but It just wouldn't be fair.

Brody and McMahon did okay .

O'Connor tried as did Quigley but were off the mark.

O'Carroll tried hard early doors with out much success!

Begley ran himself into the ground after 20 mins but like most laois players he was out of breath after that.

Walsh did okay when he was brought in as did Meaney but the game was over as a contest long before that.

I'm afraid its hard to say anyhting only it was as poor as I've seen in years.

Maybe just maybe the players can lift themselves get a win in wicklow and provide some bright spark for supporters.


Maybe having Timmons Lillis and Attride fit the next day might improve the back line!

LAOIS ABÚ

High Fielder

Quote from: BallyroanAbu on June 07, 2017, 10:07:37 AM
I think your wrong on that Clonad,  there would be an instant improvement.  I doubt they would get further than Div 2 but they would improve.  There is a lot wrong within our structures but Donie Kingston is prob in the top ten forwards in the country I would expect someone who knows what they are doing can build something around him.  But why should we accept being shit and stay there,  I would be more worried about that.  We are in a wonderful place if someone had the foresight to realize it,  simply put things can only get better.

I don't know why your posts rub me up so badly, but they do. Here you go again, peddling false hope. Wake up and look around you. The players are not there. They're not in your club, my club or any other club for that matter. You come on here talking about a wonderful place and foresight and it's a crock of shite. Get real. Accept the fact that this is one of the lowest points in Laois' history and bring your positivity to the County Board with a new plan, because they like you think if we keep rubbing the bottle the genie will appear. A result in Aughrim won't kick start anything. Padraig Clancy, Jim Gavin or whoever you want in there won't change anything. You can't see the blindingly obvious and you have Laois football on a pedestal it doesn't deserve. I looked at the fixtures there and your team are playing this week. Look at them and try to visualise how many could be made into proper county footballers. This doesn't happen because you want it to or you wish it were so.

OTF

Quote from: Laoiseabu on June 07, 2017, 10:32:09 AM
I'd agree with Clonad . If Micko took over what would he do with our aging players, Quigley, Begley, Meaney , McMahon, Booth, Timmons, Donoher, Strong, Conway, Munnelly.  Micko can hardly wave a magic wand here. These lads have to be replaced soon and who is gonna replace them ? Things will get worse before better.

This was not the first time we were beaten by 13 or 14 points but other times there was always hope because there were good u21 or minor players coming through this time it's different as there's nothing coming through.
Of the 10 mentioned above, my own view is a lot of them are there on repetition only and are no where near the players they once were, there's nothing to push them on or nothing to push them out.
Just go through the motions and I'll still be playing.

Clonadmad said in a recent post "the chickens would be coming home to roost" in about 10 years I think they have been roosting for the last 10.
Can it get worse ??? Probably but what difference will it make, top or bottom of division 4 !!!

What can be done...... I can't see what difference more money will make if there's not someone driving this from the top. It's not acceptable that big lone established clubs are not trying to develop young players and enter teams while other smaller clubs are. This needs to be driven home and the sooner the better as it's going to take 10 years.

Laoiseabu

High fielder and OTF I would totally agree👍👍

ILikeStrawberryJam

I think the general concensus here is that we are a shambles from the top down.

I live in dublin. I dont have a butchers whats going on at juvenile or club level or with the county board.

I just rock up to the home league games and the championship games so i cant offer any solutions ..

This is the lowest point in the 25 years i've been following Laois Teams.

I think we are a bit better than last Sunday. Tactically we seem clueless. Playing as individuals. Forgetting about talent or lack of it
this isnt a team in the real sense from what i can see. Its a bunch of individuals. WE were within a kick of a ball of making the QF last
year so i think we are over doing the lack of talent thing. There is some talent in that squad. It was like boys against men last week.
Physically we couldnt compete. Whose fault is that? We should be a bit better than Sunday. We are 6/7 point behind kildare not 14 . . .
I accept we are fooked when 5 or 6 of our main lads retire in a few weeks time as there is little or nothing coming through.

Accepting we are bolloxed .. can those in the know at grass root level offer a way forward ..

Give me some hope ..




Keyser Söze

#430
I disagree that we are where our available talent decrees we should be.

Again as I said weeks ago nobody is expecting us to be up there with Mayo, Dublin or Kerry. In fact, we are not even expecting really to be at Kildare's level.
But this doesn't mean we are among the bottom 8 teams in the country. Our league results and championship performance suggest we are.

On available talent; we haven't been setting the world alight at minor and u21 level. But we also haven't been losing to the likes of Offaly, Carlow, Westmeath and Wicklow on a regular basis.
Bar a brief period of about 10 years we never had consistently excellent minor teams AFAIK.

We are not very good. But we are better than Division 4 and we are better than they way last Sunday went. That would be my opinion.
Based on what? Based on the fact that it's only the top 3 or 4 teams in Leinster that beat us regularly at underage. Based on the fact that we were comfortable in Division 2 in 2013 & 2014, less so in 2015. Even in 2016 it came down to the last game before relegation.
Based on the fact that our county champions generally beat those from most counties (except Dublin).

I don't think that everything else is grand and it's all at Creedon's door.
But, this man has been backed, is being well paid and everything from discipline, fitness levels and game plans have been atrocious.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.......

Unison

By no means is all Creedon's fault, but the poor fitness level of the team is. What is he being paid for?

Giovanni

Quote from: OTF on June 07, 2017, 02:25:09 PM

Of the 10 mentioned above, my own view is a lot of them are there on repetition only and are no where near the players they once were, there's nothing to push them on or nothing to push them out.
Just go through the motions and I'll still be playing.


I think this is at the heart of it. I have no doubt that the nucleus of the team is strong (notwithstanding the fact that age is becoming an increasingly important factor). This team has plenty of talent (just talk to inter-county players from other counties) but the edge is completely gone. That shows in the lack of fitness, the lack of fight, the lack of togetherness and team spirit.

The basic problem, in my opinion, is that the whole thing seems very stale. There have been very few new panellists over the last 5 or 6 years and the lads that have been there since they were 21 or 22 know that there is nobody coming to take their places.

A really top notch manager would be able to correct some of these things, even if there is a lack of competition for places. However, most managers would not. Creedon certainly hasn't solved it but he's no better or worse than 95% of the managers in the country. It is possible for a manager to change the spirit/mentality of the camp but, realistically, this is unlikely.

The change in mindset needs to come from the players themselves in the first place. 




Nameless

Lads, this is basically the same squad we've had for the last 6/7 years. Yes some players are older now but they're not 35/36! How did we go from division 1/high division 2 to division 4? How did we go from challenging Dublin and Donegal in the latter stages of the championship to going out to teams like Clare and Antrim?
To me it's clear. O'Flatharta, Lillis and now Creeden. Amateur set ups have destroyed these players. While other counties have developed and improved their players, we've gone backwards. Physically, tactically, mentally, we're just nowhere near what these players are capable of. I'm not saying they are world beaters but they are far better than what they've shown for the past few years. It may be too late for them now.

OTF

Quote from: Nameless on June 07, 2017, 05:50:59 PM
Lads, this is basically the same squad we've had for the last 6/7 years. Yes some players are older now but they're not 35/36! How did we go from division 1/high division 2 to division 4? How did we go from challenging Dublin and Donegal in the latter stages of the championship to going out to teams like Clare and Antrim?
To me it's clear. O'Flatharta, Lillis and now Creeden. Amateur set ups have destroyed these players. While other counties have developed and improved their players, we've gone backwards. Physically, tactically, mentally, we're just nowhere near what these players are capable of. I'm not saying they are world beaters but they are far better than what they've shown for the past few years. It may be too late for them now.

It's 5 years since we challenged Dublin in 2012 all those lads were in their prime including Ross.
Gone are Healy POL Billy Clancy Boyle it's not the same panel or anything like it.