Clerical abuse!

[mylestheslasher]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14334385

28 July 2011 Last updated at 18:55 Share this pageEmail Print Share this page

Vatican nuncio to Ireland moving to Czech Republic

Papal Nuncio Giuseppe Leanza is being transferred to the Czech Republic. Continue reading the main story

The Vatican's nuncio to Ireland is to be transferred to the Czech Republic.

The Pope recalled Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza following criticism of the Catholic Church by the Taoiseach Enda Kenny.

The remarks followed the publication of the Cloyne report into the church's mishandling of cases of clerical sex abuse in County Cork.

In a blistering attack, Mr Kenny accused the church of putting its reputation ahead of child rape victims.

After the recall, vice-director of the Vatican press office Father Ciro Benedettini said the nuncio's recall "should be interpreted as an expression of the desire of the Holy See for serious and effective collaboration with the (Irish) government".

He added that it "denotes the seriousness of the situation and the Holy See's desire to face it objectively and determinately.

"Nor does it exclude some degree of surprise and disappointment at certain excessive reactions."

Irish Deputy Prime Minister Eamon Gilmore said the decision to recall the nuncio was a matter for the Holy See.

"The government is awaiting the response of the Holy See to the recent report into the Catholic Diocese of Cloyne and it is to be expected that the Vatican would wish to consult in depth with the Nuncio on its response."

Good to see the Vatican moving someone on to another "parish" again.

[gallsman]

According to the Political World forum, some mass-goers walked out of mass last Saturday at the Black Abbey in Kilkenny City after the priest called Minister for Justice Alan Shatter a "Jewish, non-practicing, atheist".

As reported yesterday on TheJournal.ie, a Co Louth parish priest compared the Taoiseach to Hitler in a mass bulletin earlier this week.

Good f**king god, when will they ever get the message?!

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

According to the Political World forum, some mass-goers walked out of mass last Saturday at the Black Abbey in Kilkenny City after the priest called Minister for Justice Alan Shatter a "Jewish, non-practicing, atheist".

As reported yesterday on TheJournal.ie, a Co Louth parish priest compared the Taoiseach to Hitler in a mass bulletin earlier this week.

Good f**king god, when will they ever get the message?!

I feel a tiny bit sorry for the Priests, Nuns or Brothers etc. who must be going mad screaming at the wall with the idiots who don't get it.

[Bud Wiser]

Have a listen to this that a friend of mine has recorded.
http://soundcloud.com/michele-ann-kelly/run-for-cover

[orangeman]

Have a listen to this that a friend of mine has recorded.
http://soundcloud.com/michele-ann-kelly/run-for-cover

Powerful stuff.

[theskull1]

Just reading The Students Catholic Doctrine 1943 edition (St Colmans College Derry)

Page 209
III Duties of Inferiors Towards Superiors

We must obey our Bishops and Pastors since God has placed them over us, and will demand of them an account for our souls, if perchance by their neglect we have remained in our sins. We must follow their commands and instructions with a ready obedience, that we may please God, and be a subject of joy and comfort to them in their heavy and responsible tasks. We should never fail in our love for them, nor in our outward actions be ever wanting in the reverence and respect that is their due. If by speaking ill of them we were to lower their character in the eyes of others, we should be guilty of a grave sin against justice and religion, and be the cause of serious scandal.

I can see why Iceman is coming from after reading that paragraph

I can also see how childabusing priests thought they could do what they done and think they could get away with it (many did) after reading that paragraph

[muppet]

Just reading The Students Catholic Doctrine 1943 edition (St Colmans College Derry)

Page 209
III Duties of Inferiors Towards Superiors

We must obey our Bishops and Pastors since God has placed them over us, and will demand of them an account for our souls, if perchance by their neglect we have remained in our sins. We must follow their commands and instructions with a ready obedience, that we may please God, and be a subject of joy and comfort to them in their heavy and responsible tasks. We should never fail in our love for them, nor in our outward actions be ever wanting in the reverence and respect that is their due. If by speaking ill of them we were to lower their character in the eyes of others, we should be guilty of a grave sin against justice and religion, and be the cause of serious scandal.

I can see why Iceman is coming from after reading that paragraph

I can also see how childabusing priests thought they could do what they done and think they could get away with it (many did) after reading that paragraph

The paragraph is only relevent if it claims to supersede the law of the land. Otherwise it is a club rulebook.

[theskull1]

If lawyers taught RE in those days I'd accept the relevance of that (truthful) point muppet

[muppet]

If lawyers taught RE in those days I'd accept the relevance of that (truthful) point muppet

The point being they might claim they had to follow the rules, but as citizens they were obliged to obey the law. Like the rest of us.

[Eamonnca1]

I love how they refer to their internal rule book as "cannon law". Shower of pretentious ballixes - who do they think they are?

[theskull1]

Of course muppet, but the level of authority (power) that they created for themselves created the monster. Also I don't really think you could really say that the law of the land has held these boys to account?  Above the law it would seem

[muppet]

Of course muppet, but the level of authority (power) that they created for themselves created the monster. Also I don't really think you could really say that the law of the land has held these boys to account?  Above the law it would seem

Agreed but the law of this particular land is (to put it politely) lacking clarity on how to deal with people of standing, e.g. bankers, Doctors (Neary?) solicitors (Lynn?), politicians, clergy etc.

If the law is 'of the people' then the people make it very easy for the above.

[muppet]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/vatican-reveals-irish-priest-files-516881.html

The Vatican said that the documentation proved that it had only learned of the accusations against Ronan in 1966, after the abuse against Mr Doe occurred.

Don't know anything about this case but the above quote from the Vatican seems to typify the problem. It appears to be saying that this documentation proves they (Church) didn't know about the particular abuse by the relevent priest until 1966, after it had happened. Of course it doesn't say why they waited until a court order, 45 years later, to release the documents.

I'm afraid this further highlights decades of moral preaching by a leadership with no morals.

[orangeman]

Dublin archdiocese close to 'financial collapse'

The Catholic archdiocese of Dublin is close to a "state of financial collapse", according to a leaked consultation document from its Council of Priests.

The document blames a decrease in collections and declining participation at mass.

It also cites the cost of settlements made to clerical abuse victims.

The document, published by the Irish Catholic, says cash reserves built up by the diocese have been spent.

It suggested that all central administration posts must be assessed and pay cuts, in line with Irish public service pay reductions, must be considered by diocesan agencies and parish workers.

The document proposed the possibility of a parish based levy on Catholic families, which could raise up to 3m euros (£2.6m) a year.

A spokeswoman for the archdiocese confirmed the existence of the document. She said it was aimed at addressing the economic realities facing the archdiocese.

She said to make no changes would have serious financial consequences.

It is understood that members of the Council of Priests, which advises the archdiocese, are considering the document and will speak with priests at parish level and report back on their findings at a meeting in September.

[orangeman]

Finally a considered response from Rome :

The Vatican has issued its response to criticism of it by the Government following the release of the Cloyne Report.

The Vatican issued the 20-page response addressed to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Eamon Gilmore.

The statement from the Vatican says "it has significant reservations that the speech made by Enda Kenny TD in the Dáil on the 20th of July, in particular, the accusation that the Holy See attempted to frustrate an inquiry in a sovereign democratic republic, is unfounded."

The statement added that the Holy See wishes to make it quite clear that it in no way hampered or sought to interfere in any inquiry into cases of child sexual abuse in the Diocese of Cloyne.

Furthermore, the Vatican says that at no stage did the Holy See seek to interfere with Irish Civil law or impeded the civil authority in the exercise of its duties.

The Holy See observes that there is no evidence cited anywhere in the Cloyne Report, to support the claim that its (i.e. the Vatican's) supposed intervention contributed to the undermining of the child protection framework and guidelines of the Irish State.


The Cloyne Report scrutinized how both Church and State authorities handled complaints and allegations of child sexual abuse made against 19 priests working under Bishop John Magee in the Co Cork diocese between 1996 and 2009.


It found that Bishop Magee falsely told the Government and the HSE that the Catholic Diocese was reporting all allegations of clerical child sexual abuse to the civil authorities.


The response from the Vatican was prompted by scathing criticism levelled against it by Taoiseach Enda Kenny in the Dáil in July in which he castigated what he termed "the dysfunction, disconnection and elitism" in the Vatican.

The Vatican also responded to claims in the Cloyne Report that it referred to a Framework Document, drawn up by Irish Bishops, on how to deal with allegations of child sexual abuse as "not an official document..but merely a study document."

It says that taken out of context the comments in the letter from Archbishop Storero to Irish Bishops "could be open to misinterpretation, giving rise to understandable criticism."

It says this description was "not a dismissal of the serious efforts undertaken by Irish Bishops to address the grave problem of child sexual abuse."

Rather the congregation "wished to ensure that nothing contained in the Framework Document would give rise to difficulties should appeals be lodged to the Holy See."

The Vatican also refutes the claim that Irish Bishops sought recognition from Rome for the Framework Document but it was not forthcoming.

It says Irish Bishops did not, under Canon Law, seek 'recongnito' for the Framework Document, therefore the Holy See cannot be criticised for failing to grant what was never requested in the first place.

However, according to the Vatican, this would not have prevented applying the Framework Document in individual Dioceses