Clerical abuse!

[BarryBreensBandage]

Just found this quote on Wikipedia:

During the Medieval music era (500–1400), the only European repertory that survives from before about 800 is the monophonic liturgical plainsong of the Roman Catholic Church, the central tradition of which was called Gregorian chant

Looks like I have got something else to thank the church for...

[Tubberman]

Yet another example of how disconnected from the general public the clergy in this country are:

http://www.thejournal.ie/heil-herr-kenny-parish-priest-compares-taoiseach-to-hitler-188175-Jul2011/?utm_source=shortlink

'Heil Herr Kenny': Parish priest compares Taoiseach to Hitler


ENDA KENNY HAS been compared to Adolf Hitler in a Mass bulletin issued by a parish priest.

The weekend parish newsletter in Togher, Co Louth was responding to the Taoiseach's stinging criticisms of the Vatican last week. In an article headlined "Heil Herr Kenny!" Fr Thomas Daly wrote: "The last European leader to make such a blistering attack on the Pope was the ruthless German dictator Adolf Hitler."

According to the Drogheda Independent, it also suggested there was now a "No Pope here" policy in Ireland and compared it to loyalist areas in the North, adding: "Perhaps we might try and find a way to build new bridges with the "Shankhill Road people" (sic).

    A 'No Pope Here' sign on the Dáil gates would definitely be a draw for Shankhill Road people and marchers from Portadown!

The article has drawn criticism in the local area. One resident told reporter Michelle O'Keeffe for the Irish Times: "Everybody in the area is talking about it. It is a bit much comparing the leader of Ireland to Hitler – the article went too far."

However, Fr Daly yesterday told the Irish Daily Star (print edition) that the "Heil Herr Kenny" headline had been misinterpreted. "I regret the headline and the misunderstandings that might have arisen out of it," he said. "I am not comparing Enda Kenny to Hitler."

He added that he fully supports the child protection measures recommended in the Cloyne Report.

Enda Kenny told the Irish Daily Mirror (print edition): "I think that priest's comment does not deserve the dignity of a comment from me."

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

That priest needs a right kick up the hole, he seems to forget that the man in his article that ever got closest to Hitler was his Hitler Youth Pope in Rome (Yes I know all young Germans had to join).

Some of the comments in the Irish Times from Church defenders are sickening beyond belief, it seems to be the Taoiseachs or other Politicians fault, the Gaurds fault, the courts fault, the social workers fault, the E.U.'s fault, Ireland's fault, the teachers fault, everybodys fault except "the good priests". Are these the same ones going around calling the elected Taoiseach of Ireland Heir Furher when all he is doing is facing down a foreign power which has clearly shown itself to be an enemy of the Irish Republic.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

What procedure exists if individual churches (i.e. the building and its regular worshipers), parish, or diocese to break away and start their own reformed Roman Catholic or Irish Catholic church, presuming they wish to keep all their current beliefs and rictuals etc. but just without the existing hierarchy. Who owns the buildings? Could a parish legally take over a church building if the majority of babtised/christened in that parish wished to break away from Rome?

Personally I'd turn the churches, chapels, mosques, temples into museums, theatres, schools, places for civic marriages, public spaces etc. but thats a different argument.

[BarryBreensBandage]

What procedure exists if individual churches (i.e. the building and its regular worshipers), parish, or diocese to break away and start their own reformed Roman Catholic or Irish Catholic church, presuming they wish to keep all their current beliefs and rictuals etc. but just without the existing hierarchy. Who owns the buildings? Could a parish legally take over a church building if the majority of babtised/christened in that parish wished to break away from Rome?

Personally I'd turn the churches, chapels, mosques, temples into museums, theatres, schools, places for civic marriages, public spaces etc. but thats a different argument.

Opinions please on this news story:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8643527/Vatican-excommunicates-Chinese-bishop-Joseph-Huang-Bingzhang-appointed-by-Beijing.html

[mylestheslasher]

That priest needs a right kick up the hole, he seems to forget that the man in his article that ever got closest to Hitler was his Hitler Youth Pope in Rome (Yes I know all young Germans had to join).

Some of the comments in the Irish Times from Church defenders are sickening beyond belief, it seems to be the Taoiseachs or other Politicians fault, the Gaurds fault, the courts fault, the social workers fault, the E.U.'s fault, Ireland's fault, the teachers fault, everybodys fault except "the good priests". Are these the same ones going around calling the elected Taoiseach of Ireland Heir Furher when all he is doing is facing down a foreign power which has clearly shown itself to be an enemy of the Irish Republic.

Doesn't surprise me this type of thing. Some of these boys think they can do and say what they like. A good while ago priests were given a letter to read at mass in relation to the whole clerical abuse scandal (i forget was it from the vatican or from the bishops). The guy in our local church sneeringly handed out a photocopy to everyone who entered the church. He didn't discuss it, he didn't mention it in his sermon. He has not once spoke of the sex abuse as obviously he doesn't regard it as an issue. He talks plenty about what people put into the basket mind you. Anyway, up until that point our house contributed our dues to the local church (mostly due to my wife wishes) but after that event they have not got one penny from us and they won't ever do again.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

"A number of mass-goers walked out of Saturday mass at the Black Abbey, Kilkenny City, after" Priest "called Alan Shatter, Minister for Justice, a "Jewish, non-practicing, atheist"."

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?s=d3fdb1d21fe52b39048e4c3776bd5ff6&t=8983

[mylestheslasher]

"A number of mass-goers walked out of Saturday mass at the Black Abbey, Kilkenny City, after" Priest "called Alan Shatter, Minister for Justice, a "Jewish, non-practicing, atheist"."

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?s=d3fdb1d21fe52b39048e4c3776bd5ff6&t=8983

"Jewish non practicing atheist" - I'm going to have to go for a lie down and try to figure out what that means. Seems some of the "good priests" are blowing the head gasket. Its easy to see how the likes of these guys would not pass on info on paedo priests if they had it.

[orangeman]

The reaction of some of the priests round the country are par for the course. We shouldn't be surprised.

I remember a local priest getting up only a few years ago and went off on a rant and said that it was the parents who were doing all the child abusing and that the church were only doing a wee bit of abusing and basically what was all the fuss about. The congrgation were aghast at what he was saying with a good few getting up and walking out in disgust.


The thing that concerned me most that he was a very senior priest in the diocese who I thought might just have known better.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

What procedure exists if individual churches (i.e. the building and its regular worshipers), parish, or diocese to break away and start their own reformed Roman Catholic or Irish Catholic church, presuming they wish to keep all their current beliefs and rictuals etc. but just without the existing hierarchy. Who owns the buildings? Could a parish legally take over a church building if the majority of babtised/christened in that parish wished to break away from Rome?

Personally I'd turn the churches, chapels, mosques, temples into museums, theatres, schools, places for civic marriages, public spaces etc. but thats a different argument.

Opinions please on this news story:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8643527/Vatican-excommunicates-Chinese-bishop-Joseph-Huang-Bingzhang-appointed-by-Beijing.html

As far as I understand there is an Official Catholic and an Official Protestant Church with the Chineese State as its head. Then there is the Catholic Church with the Pope in Rome as its head and the various Protestant denominations with their various heads or internal structures.

I disagree with the Chineese state forcing Roman Catholic Bishops to attend what is in fact a different denomination, the Chineese Catholic Church, I also disagree with the Pope excumincating a Bishop of what is in fact a different denomincation to the one he is head of.

As a human being I oppose religion, as a democrat I defend an individuals right to religion (except when that right impinges on the rights of others or the good of the nation). I also have the right too point out how idiotic religion is.

[muppet]

What procedure exists if individual churches (i.e. the building and its regular worshipers), parish, or diocese to break away and start their own reformed Roman Catholic or Irish Catholic church, presuming they wish to keep all their current beliefs and rictuals etc. but just without the existing hierarchy. Who owns the buildings? Could a parish legally take over a church building if the majority of babtised/christened in that parish wished to break away from Rome?

Personally I'd turn the churches, chapels, mosques, temples into museums, theatres, schools, places for civic marriages, public spaces etc. but thats a different argument.

Opinions please on this news story:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8643527/Vatican-excommunicates-Chinese-bishop-Joseph-Huang-Bingzhang-appointed-by-Beijing.html

As far as I understand there is an Official Catholic and an Official Protestant Church with the Chineese State as its head. Then there is the Catholic Church with the Pope in Rome as its head and the various Protestant denominations with their various heads or internal structures.

I disagree with the Chineese state forcing Roman Catholic Bishops to attend what is in fact a different denomination, the Chineese Catholic Church, I also disagree with the Pope excumincating a Bishop of what is in fact a different denomincation to the one he is head of.

As a human being I oppose religion, as a democrat I defend an individuals right to religion (except when that right impinges on the rights of others or the good of the nation). I also have the right too point out how idiotic religion is.

The Vatican has absolved itself from any wrongdoing in Ireland regarding child abuse blaming the 'local Church' and in particualr the local bishops. It also has still to comment on the Cloyne report.

Meanwhile in China it is at war insisting only it (the Vatican) has the authority to appoint bishops anywhere. It has responded to this particular outrage within a week but is still silent of Cloyne.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0728/1224301495730.html

Total costs (to the Irish State - Muppet) so far of the four statutory inquiries? €133.8 million, with more to come.

None of this would have been necessary had the Catholic Church here and in Rome co-operated fully in establishing the truth. Instead, those that could be were dragged, kicking and screaming, into disclosing what they desperately wanted to keep hidden. So, in Ferns, abuse files on five further priests which should have been presented to the inquiry remained unavailable until an accidental discovery in the summer of 2005 – when the Ferns draft report was already completed. A "regrettable error on the part of the diocese . . ." said apostolic administrator to Ferns diocese, canon lawyer, barrister-at-law and Dublin auxiliary bishop Eamon Walsh. Four years later, Rome declined his resignation.

[Evil Genius]

Yet another example of how disconnected from the general public the clergy in this country are:

http://www.thejournal.ie/heil-herr-kenny-parish-priest-compares-taoiseach-to-hitler-188175-Jul2011/?utm_source=shortlink

'Heil Herr Kenny': Parish priest compares Taoiseach to Hitler


ENDA KENNY HAS been compared to Adolf Hitler in a Mass bulletin issued by a parish priest.

The weekend parish newsletter in Togher, Co Louth was responding to the Taoiseach's stinging criticisms of the Vatican last week. In an article headlined "Heil Herr Kenny!" Fr Thomas Daly wrote: "The last European leader to make such a blistering attack on the Pope was the ruthless German dictator Adolf Hitler."

According to the Drogheda Independent, it also suggested there was now a "No Pope here" policy in Ireland and compared it to loyalist areas in the North, adding: "Perhaps we might try and find a way to build new bridges with the "Shankhill Road people" (sic).

    A 'No Pope Here' sign on the Dáil gates would definitely be a draw for Shankhill Road people and marchers from Portadown!

The article has drawn criticism in the local area. One resident told reporter Michelle O'Keeffe for the Irish Times: "Everybody in the area is talking about it. It is a bit much comparing the leader of Ireland to Hitler – the article went too far."

However, Fr Daly yesterday told the Irish Daily Star (print edition) that the "Heil Herr Kenny" headline had been misinterpreted. "I regret the headline and the misunderstandings that might have arisen out of it," he said. "I am not comparing Enda Kenny to Hitler."

He added that he fully supports the child protection measures recommended in the Cloyne Report.

Enda Kenny told the Irish Daily Mirror (print edition): "I think that priest's comment does not deserve the dignity of a comment from me."

I know it was over 50 years ago, but Kenny's comments are a refreshing change from that of a Fine Gael predecessor, John Costello, when the Holy Mother Church in Ireland was being assailed by another bunch of Heathens:

"In 1956, the blasphemy law was put to more creative use. A pair of impudent Jehovah's Witnesses had the gall to hand out their pamphlets on the public streets of Clonlara, before being beaten to a pulp by Father Patrick Ryan and his devout parishioners. The priest and parishioners were charged for the attack, but immediately given probation. The Jehovah's Witnesses, by contrast, were required to post bond of £300 each, or face three months in jail – even though they were never charged with any offense.

An outrage? Yes, but not in the way you might think. Bishop Joseph Rodgers furiously wrote to Ireland's prime minister that 'I find it hard to credit that the attorney general, had he been fully aware of the pernicious and blasphemous literature distributed and sold in my diocese by these self-styled Jehovah's Witnesses, would have proceeded against one of my priests for upholding and defending the fundamental truths of our treasured Catholic faith. Your attorney general prosecutes one of my priests for doing what I, and all good Catholics here, regard as his bounden duty and right. The matter cannot rest.' The prime minister sympathetically replied that he fully appreciated 'the just indignation aroused among the clergy and the people by the activities of the Jehovah's Witnesses.'"

P.S. Whenever the Jehovahs come to my door, I find the easiest way to get them to go away is to tell them "I'm Catholic" - it works a treat. I had always thought this was because they accept they cannot expect to get anywhere with Catholics, especially Irish ones. But on reflection, I hope it's not because they're still frightened! 

[Eamonnca1]

Whenever the Jehovahs come to my door, I find the easiest way to get them to go away is to tell them "I'm Catholic"

I love it when they come to the door; I could argue with them all day.  I swear I'm going to make an unbeliever out of one of them. One of these days!

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14334385

28 July 2011 Last updated at 18:55 Share this pageEmail Print Share this page

Vatican nuncio to Ireland moving to Czech Republic

Papal Nuncio Giuseppe Leanza is being transferred to the Czech Republic. Continue reading the main story

The Vatican's nuncio to Ireland is to be transferred to the Czech Republic.

The Pope recalled Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza following criticism of the Catholic Church by the Taoiseach Enda Kenny.

The remarks followed the publication of the Cloyne report into the church's mishandling of cases of clerical sex abuse in County Cork.

In a blistering attack, Mr Kenny accused the church of putting its reputation ahead of child rape victims.

After the recall, vice-director of the Vatican press office Father Ciro Benedettini said the nuncio's recall "should be interpreted as an expression of the desire of the Holy See for serious and effective collaboration with the (Irish) government".

He added that it "denotes the seriousness of the situation and the Holy See's desire to face it objectively and determinately.

"Nor does it exclude some degree of surprise and disappointment at certain excessive reactions."

Irish Deputy Prime Minister Eamon Gilmore said the decision to recall the nuncio was a matter for the Holy See.

"The government is awaiting the response of the Holy See to the recent report into the Catholic Diocese of Cloyne and it is to be expected that the Vatican would wish to consult in depth with the Nuncio on its response."

[Tubberman]

Good to see a Catholic publication coming out and telling it like it is

http://www.thejournal.ie/catholic-newspaper-applauds-taoiseachs-vatican-speech-188997-Jul2011/?utm_source=shortlink

A CATHOLIC PUBLICATION has said that Taoiseach Enda Kenny's speech about the Vatican "captured the anger of a generation".

The Irish Catholic has its front page entirely dedicated to an editorial on the speech this week, in which it states that "the time for hollow apologies is over".

The editorial, titled Time for Penitence, states that "most remember an arrogant authoritarian Irish church and a privileged clerical caste that obsessed over sexuality and hell fire and neglected the tender compassion of Christ".

Kenny's speech "resonated with a younger generation", said the editorial, and was an "emotional roar from much of Catholic Ireland to the Vatican for action now".

The paper concludes that the Irish church "needs someone to grab it, shake it up and make it fit for purpose", saying that Irish Catholics "love their church and want it back".

While the Irish Catholic may have praised the Taoiseach for his speech, others were not so impressed.

According to the Political World forum, some mass-goers walked out of mass last Saturday at the Black Abbey in Kilkenny City after the priest called Minister for Justice Alan Shatter a "Jewish, non-practicing, atheist".

As reported yesterday on TheJournal.ie, a Co Louth parish priest compared the Taoiseach to Hitler in a mass bulletin earlier this week.