Clerical abuse!

[Ulick]

Ulick won't be giving his own opinion instead he trawls the net to find shite reports like this new one. That piece of shit is a disgrace. The man has no moral substance what so ever. Why don't you tell us what you think Ulick instead of posting this rubbish?

Myles, maybe when you learn to engage in discussion like a grown-up I'll respond to you.

[Ulick]

Is this your opinion Ulick?

I can see the logic in his argument and it certainly rings true. I couldn't say it's also my opinion as I've no strong feelings either way. However as someone who would have quite a liberal social outlook, I am extremely uncomfortable with the current Catholic witchhunt. As the man says: "The reaction to the paedophile priest scandal is as guilty of scaremongering, illiberalism and elitism as the Catholic Church has ever been."

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Nothing funny about it, but this cartoon is in today's Le Monde:



"Come here to I show you the love of Jesus"

"No thanks, that makes my arse too sore."

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

Sometimes people look so deep into something so simple that they miss the point. I don't care for the Catholic Church or any other Church but if a priest or any other person committed sexual abuse crimes then they should pay. And if anyone knowingly covered these up they should pay too. And I don't mean they should resign, like I said I couldn't give two shites who the bishop of anywhere is. They should be brought to justice like everyone else. Witchhunts will be the likely defence for sympathisers of the church, along with the fact that a lot of those abused are exaggerating what happened.

[muppet]

Is this your opinion Ulick?

I can see the logic in his argument and it certainly rings true. I couldn't say it's also my opinion as I've no strong feelings either way. However as someone who would have quite a liberal social outlook, I am extremely uncomfortable with the current Catholic witchhunt. As the man says: "The reaction to the paedophile priest scandal is as guilty of scaremongering, illiberalism and elitism as the Catholic Church has ever been."

It is not because priests suddenly became more abusive in the 1960s than they had been in the far harsher Ireland of the 1940s and 50s, but because the people who attended the institutions during that period were in many ways the main targets of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse. They would have been in their mid-40s to mid-50s when the commission began in 1999 and many of them had suffered long-term unemployment, health problems, and other disappointments. Reporting their misfortunes to the commission offered them the chance, not only of getting financial compensation, but also of validating their difficult life experiences as a consequence of their having been abused

Is this your opinion Ulick?

IMHO I think this comment is as sick as I've seen on the subject. He is saying that many of the victims were in fact failures in life who took out their frustration, sometimes for monetary gain, on the innocents in the church. He is directly accusing many of them of fabricating the whole thing.

Some man that fella. I am too angry to post anything more on that sc**bag.



.

[orangeman]

Bishop Noel Treanor on TV from St. Peter's cathedral apologising for the abuse and for its' cover up.



Bishop Noel is looking like the new leader.

[Ulick]

IMHO I think this comment is as sick as I've seen on the subject. He is saying that many of the victims were in fact failures in life who took out their frustration, sometimes for monetary gain, on the innocents in the church. He is directly accusing many of them of fabricating the whole thing.

Some man that fella. I am too angry to post anything more on that sc**bag.

No he's not.

[mylestheslasher]

Ulick won't be giving his own opinion instead he trawls the net to find shite reports like this new one. That piece of shit is a disgrace. The man has no moral substance what so ever. Why don't you tell us what you think Ulick instead of posting this rubbish?

Myles, maybe when you learn to engage in discussion like a grown-up I'll respond to you.

There is no point engaging with you cos you haven't the balls to come out and say what you really think. Your stance on this is a bit like Fine Fail and builders. They try to claim they are independent from all the shit thats going on yet everyone knows  they are not. I would be very suprised if you did not have bias towards keeping the good name of the church for some personal reason and so you trawl the net posting moronic articles that directly or indirectly deflect blame from the church. For f**k sake you had to even invent a new username, maybe cos you posted so much shite under the old one?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Brendan O'Neill
   
.........today's reaction to those allegations of sexual abuse is also deeply problematic. For it is a reaction informed more by prejudice and illiberalism than by anything resembling a principled secularism......

Whilst this cannot be the case in every single reaction to the nightmare of sexual abuse (originating from the Catholic Church), there's no doubt in my mind that the words above ring true for much of what I have heard and read, including here.

Cardinal Brady was supposed to have celebrated confirmation at a parish in Armagh during the week. The parents complained and threatened to protest if the Cardinal did arrive, and in the end he didn't.

I hadn't heard this - can you tell me the name of the parish in question?

[orangeman]

Williams criticises Irish Catholic Church 'credibility' 
 

The Archbishop of Canterbury has said the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland has lost "all credibility" over the way it had dealt with paedophile priests.Rowan Williams said the problems, which had been a "colossal trauma" for the Church, affected the wider public.

BBC religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott said Dr Williams' words represent unusually damning criticism from the leader of another Church.

The Church in Ireland said the issue of abuse was being taken "very seriously".

It is the first time Dr Williams has spoken about the scandal.

Catherine Pepinster, editor of the Catholic weekly newspaper, The Tablet, said his comments were "very striking" and many Catholics would share his opinion.

The interview with Dr Williams will be broadcast on BBC Radio 4's Start the Week programme.

'Everybody's problem'

The issue has prompted increasing controversy about Pope Benedict's role in handling accusations of sex abuse, before he became Pope.

But his supporters say the Pope had introduced rules to protect children.

Dr Williams said: "I was speaking to an Irish friend recently who was saying that it's quite difficult in some parts of Ireland to go down the street wearing a clerical collar now.

"And an institution so deeply bound into the life of a society, suddenly becoming, suddenly losing all credibility - that's not just a problem for the Church, it is a problem for everybody in Ireland."


Catherine Pepinster

Responding to Dr Williams's comments, a spokesperson for the Catholic Church in Ireland said the Pope and the Irish bishops were addressing the issue of clerical abuse.

Last month, Pope Benedict XVI apologised to victims of child sex abuse by Catholic priests in Ireland.

In a pastoral letter he said there had been "serious mistakes" among bishops in responding to allegations of paedophilia.

The head of Ireland's Catholic Church, Cardinal Sean Brady, also apologised for his role in mishandling the case of a serial child abuser.

Cardinal Brady admitted he had been present at meetings where children signed vows of silence over complaints of sexual abuse against Father Brendan Smyth.

Ms Pepinster, editor of The Tablet, told the BBC his involvement had done massive harm to the Church in Ireland.

"I'm afraid that I think his resignation is necessary so that the Church in Ireland can move on - he is linked in people's minds so strongly to what has gone on," she said.

'The Nuremburg excuse'

She said suggestions that Cardinal Brady was just a young man at the time, only acting on the directions of superiors, were not acceptable.

"It sounds a bit like the Nuremburg excuse - I was only acting on orders - I think there comes a time when people have to listen to their own conscience."


  Crimes against children have indeed been committed and any Catholics who were aware of such crimes and did not act to report them, brings shame on us all

Cardinal Keith O'Brien
However, Ms Pepinster said she did not think the reputation of the Church in Ireland was irrevocably damaged.

"You have to remember the Church isn't just cardinals and bishops, the Church is ordinary people and they lead good lives."

Our correspondent said the Church's handling of abuse is likely to be an issue during the Pope's forthcoming visit to Britain in September, and Dr Williams' remarks will do nothing to dispel the controversy.

Speaking about the visit, Dr Williams said it was important that the Pope be given the chance to speak in Britain as a valued partner, but that was as, he put it, "about it".

He also predicted that few Anglicans would take up Pope Benedict's offer of conversion to Catholicism.

His comments came after Pope Benedict's personal preacher, the Rev Raniero Cantalamessa, compared criticism of the pontiff and Church over child abuse to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews.

Speaking at Good Friday prayers in St Peter's Basilica, attended by the Pope, Father Cantalamessa quoted a Jewish friend as saying the accusations reminded him of the "more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism".

The Vatican said this was not its official position and the comments were criticised by Jewish groups and those representing abuse victims.

On Sunday, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the head of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland, is expected to apologise during his Easter address in Edinburgh to the victims of paedophile priests.

He will say: "Crimes against children have indeed been committed and any Catholics who were aware of such crimes and did not act to report them, brings shame on us all."

The Start the Week programme will be broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on Monday at 0900BST.

[Main Street]

As good a take on it all as I've read yet.

Are you sure you have been reading widely?

Brendan O'Neill
   
Why humanists shouldn't join in this Catholic-bashing

The reaction to the paedophile priest scandal is as guilty of scaremongering, illiberalism and elitism as the Catholic Church has ever been.

However the Church is not being charged with scaremongering, illiberalism and elitism. Those 3 elements may well be an inseparable part of the Church.
The Church is being charged with a malicious cover up and the crime of omission.
The fundamental premise of the article is a peripheral issue.
Even the argument he presents is pap. To sum that argument up, the writer attempts to assign victimhood to the Church as an Institution, the ones  who covered up the abuse  as being the victim of atheist low standard bashing  BUT the writer interprets the sense of victimhood in the abused as being a retarded emotion.
Though anyone who has the slightest contact with an abuser's psychology should recognise that particular type of denial.

To giver just one example of pap used as part of his argument
The writer lists in his opinion problematic factors as a reason why abusers exist in the Church, namely celibacy and the  Catholic Church's strange view on sex  That opinion is generally rubbished. Rubbished as in total unsupported nonsense. Maybe this writer is inclined to subscribe authority to rubbished opinions.
The statistic of sexual abusers in the Catholic Church are on average no higher than other parts of society. There are abusers in the  Catholic Church just as they exist elsewhere in society. The special crime we apply to the Church as an institution is the malicious cover-up and the crime of omission in dealing with its quota of abusers.
In the US in between 1960 -1980,  some 5% of diocesan priest had allegations of sexual abuse thrown against them, some 60,000 kids were abused. As a single group the catholic priests who abused were serious enough players in the phenomena of sex abuse. The crime of the Church as an institution was the cover up.

Personally I have no interest in bashing people who follow the cult of Christ, whether it be in the Catholic Church or the Protestant faiths
Like many others I have no problem with differentiating between a hierarchy cover up and the faith people have in the same Church leaders.
I have no problem with understanding that such a person with such a faith can be acting with high integrity.

The Vatican has not accepted that the cover up was malicious and criminal.
Sex abuse was a crime the institutional cover up was also a crime.  As long as the Vatican waffles around concepts of the cover up being 'misplaced good intentions'  it will be bashed by both rational and irrational folk.
If the Vatican did accept that the cover up was malicious and criminal then it could face the Catholic bashing, united as a Church with faith in its doctrine. There are always cynical elements out there to bash faith followers, it is not a conspiracy, it is just a fact of human existence.
The hierarchy in Ireland could point to -  yes we have accepted there was a malicious cover up, yes we have accepted it was a crime, yes we have taken concrete steps to make amends and to prevent such abuse ever happening again.

That guidance for how to proceed has not come from the Vatican. Instead we only  have the US bishops and a smattering of other bishops and priests who acknowledge that the cover up was carried out with malicious intent and was also a crime of omission.

[Jen Cui]

Check out the name of the reporter!! 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7065824.ece

[orangeman]

Meanwhile, the Bishop of Down and Connor has called on Catholics to show support for the church by attending Mass.

Is this code for something ?.

[pintsofguinness]

Meanwhile, the Bishop of Down and Connor has called on Catholics to show support for the church by attending Mass.

Is this code for something ?.

I've lost patience with these idiots, I think we should all stop talking about it, the country as a whole I mean, and leave them, the paedos, their apologists and the brainwashed to it. 

[mylestheslasher]

Williams criticises Irish Catholic Church 'credibility' 
 

The Archbishop of Canterbury has said the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland has lost "all credibility" over the way it had dealt with paedophile priests.Rowan Williams said the problems, which had been a "colossal trauma" for the Church, affected the wider public.

BBC religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott said Dr Williams' words represent unusually damning criticism from the leader of another Church.

The Church in Ireland said the issue of abuse was being taken "very seriously".

It is the first time Dr Williams has spoken about the scandal.

Catherine Pepinster, editor of the Catholic weekly newspaper, The Tablet, said his comments were "very striking" and many Catholics would share his opinion.

The interview with Dr Williams will be broadcast on BBC Radio 4's Start the Week programme.

'Everybody's problem'

The issue has prompted increasing controversy about Pope Benedict's role in handling accusations of sex abuse, before he became Pope.

But his supporters say the Pope had introduced rules to protect children.

Dr Williams said: "I was speaking to an Irish friend recently who was saying that it's quite difficult in some parts of Ireland to go down the street wearing a clerical collar now.

"And an institution so deeply bound into the life of a society, suddenly becoming, suddenly losing all credibility - that's not just a problem for the Church, it is a problem for everybody in Ireland."


Catherine Pepinster

Responding to Dr Williams's comments, a spokesperson for the Catholic Church in Ireland said the Pope and the Irish bishops were addressing the issue of clerical abuse.

Last month, Pope Benedict XVI apologised to victims of child sex abuse by Catholic priests in Ireland.

In a pastoral letter he said there had been "serious mistakes" among bishops in responding to allegations of paedophilia.

The head of Ireland's Catholic Church, Cardinal Sean Brady, also apologised for his role in mishandling the case of a serial child abuser.

Cardinal Brady admitted he had been present at meetings where children signed vows of silence over complaints of sexual abuse against Father Brendan Smyth.

Ms Pepinster, editor of The Tablet, told the BBC his involvement had done massive harm to the Church in Ireland.

"I'm afraid that I think his resignation is necessary so that the Church in Ireland can move on - he is linked in people's minds so strongly to what has gone on," she said.

'The Nuremburg excuse'

She said suggestions that Cardinal Brady was just a young man at the time, only acting on the directions of superiors, were not acceptable.

"It sounds a bit like the Nuremburg excuse - I was only acting on orders - I think there comes a time when people have to listen to their own conscience."


  Crimes against children have indeed been committed and any Catholics who were aware of such crimes and did not act to report them, brings shame on us all

Cardinal Keith O'Brien
However, Ms Pepinster said she did not think the reputation of the Church in Ireland was irrevocably damaged.

"You have to remember the Church isn't just cardinals and bishops, the Church is ordinary people and they lead good lives."

Our correspondent said the Church's handling of abuse is likely to be an issue during the Pope's forthcoming visit to Britain in September, and Dr Williams' remarks will do nothing to dispel the controversy.

Speaking about the visit, Dr Williams said it was important that the Pope be given the chance to speak in Britain as a valued partner, but that was as, he put it, "about it".

He also predicted that few Anglicans would take up Pope Benedict's offer of conversion to Catholicism.

His comments came after Pope Benedict's personal preacher, the Rev Raniero Cantalamessa, compared criticism of the pontiff and Church over child abuse to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews.

Speaking at Good Friday prayers in St Peter's Basilica, attended by the Pope, Father Cantalamessa quoted a Jewish friend as saying the accusations reminded him of the "more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism".

The Vatican said this was not its official position and the comments were criticised by Jewish groups and those representing abuse victims.

On Sunday, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the head of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland, is expected to apologise during his Easter address in Edinburgh to the victims of paedophile priests.

He will say: "Crimes against children have indeed been committed and any Catholics who were aware of such crimes and did not act to report them, brings shame on us all."

The Start the Week programme will be broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on Monday at 0900BST.

I wonder why he felt the need to apologise for what he said, I agree 100% with what he said about the catholic churches credibility. A leader in Rome that knew of at least 2 horrific abuse cases and did nothing and a leader in Ireland that makes little raped children sign non disclosure agreements. Anyone who thinks those 2 people can lead the church into a new era is deluded, these 2 will lead the catholic church further into the gutter where only the hardcore followers, who will ignore all evidence and reason, will continue to follow them. After all there are still people out there who believe Hitler was a top man so we should not be surprised similar minded people can ignore child rape cover up.