Clerical abuse!

[pintsofguinness]

So how can you say the church is not responsible when it's the church leaders who are keeping those people in their positions and when the Vatican's silence is deafening!

To me the church is a lot more than the clergy, the church is everyone who is a Catholic, in deed as well as in name.

So you're happy to belong to something when it's leaders are covering up the rape of children?
Happy to have those people preach to you about the best way to live your life?

At this point in my life pints, I know enough to say that my faith is what's most important to me - I am not about to stop going to Mass because of what has been revealed - still not sure about numbers involved here - if the report I read today was accurate then you could be excused for thinking it was a storm in a teacup, in my opinion.

Why what numbers did you read today?
you can have faith without going to mass or subscribing to an organisation that covers up child abuse.

[Hardy]

By the way, they did a hell of a lot more than covering up. They gave these animals free rein to continue raping children. For years on end. They called the victims liars and threatened their families.

Even at this late stage, the church and many of its members don't get it. The sacrifice of children to protect the institution of the church is not only unreasonable and criminal. It's monstrous. But still they continue nauseatingly to protest that they did no wrong and refuse to salvage even a scrap of honour by at least resigning. Incredibly, some of the laity continue to support them.

"Good people" found out in an outrage like this would retire to the study with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver.

[longrunsthefox]

So how can you say the church is not responsible when it's the church leaders who are keeping those people in their positions and when the Vatican's silence is deafening!

To me the church is a lot more than the clergy, the church is everyone who is a Catholic, in deed as well as in name.

So you're happy to belong to something when it's leaders are covering up the rape of children?
Happy to have those people preach to you about the best way to live your life?

At this point in my life pints, I know enough to say that my faith is what's most important to me - I am not about to stop going to Mass because of what has been revealed - still not sure about numbers involved here - if the report I read today was accurate then you could be excused for thinking it was a storm in a teacup, in terms of the number of priests through both jurisdictions and amount of victims in both jurisdictions.

Of course I would have preferred this not to have happened but I can't deny it has.

You sound like an apologist for the church trying to minimise what happened. 'Storm in a f**ing teacup'... your comments here are beneath contempt.

[muppet]

...........Michael McDowell's most colourful sayings when, as Justice Minister, he reminded Cardinal Connell that the canon law code of the Catholic Church had no more status in Ireland than the membership rules of a golf club

Senior figures in the Church seem to think that they are entitled to enforce & and answer only to Canon Law. This was the smokescreen with which they dealt with child abuse. There is no doubt that lay people also participated.

If McDowell was correct when he was quoted above then everyone involved should be prosecuted without any delay.

In a few days some Government lackey will probably tell us that 'we can't have a witch hunt' or some other cliche and then I will be certain that this will be allowed to slide down the 'to do' list.

There is a huge elephant in the room though. Misguided loyalty to the Church is the single greatest reason why these people were never prosecuted. It is well known that a certain loyal Catholic organisation is extraordinarily well represented in some of our senior court benches.   

[pintsofguinness]

By the way, they did a hell of a lot more than covering up. They gave these animals free rein to continue raping children. For years on end. They called the victims liars and threatened their families.

Even at this late stage, the church and many of its members don't get it. The sacrifice of children to protect the institution of the church is not only unreasonable and criminal. It's monstrous. But still they continue nauseatingly to protest that they did no wrong refuse to salvage even a scrap of honour by at least resigning. Incredibly, some of the laity continue to support them.

"Good people" found out in an outrage like this would retire to the study with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver.

Well said Hardy and they're still in their positions today and sending out f**king letters to be read at mass!!!
Makes my blood boil and some people seem to be as bad as the people were when all this was happening.

[ardmhachaabu]

So how can you say the church is not responsible when it's the church leaders who are keeping those people in their positions and when the Vatican's silence is deafening!

To me the church is a lot more than the clergy, the church is everyone who is a Catholic, in deed as well as in name.

So you're happy to belong to something when it's leaders are covering up the rape of children?
Happy to have those people preach to you about the best way to live your life?

At this point in my life pints, I know enough to say that my faith is what's most important to me - I am not about to stop going to Mass because of what has been revealed - still not sure about numbers involved here - if the report I read today was accurate then you could be excused for thinking it was a storm in a teacup, in my opinion.

Why what numbers did you read today?
you can have faith without going to mass or subscribing to an organisation that covers up child abuse.

I'd prefer for someone else to quote the figures so I can't be accused of anything, if the figures I read tally with what someone else saw then I will gladly confirm - what I am alluding to is that if what I saw is right, it's much the same as any othe section of society so it's another reason why I am suspicious of so much media attention over it

I mean you don't hear of Protestant ministers being involved in this sort of behaviour yet we know it happened before and was covered up, unionist politicians were also allegedly involved

[Tony Baloney]

There are thousands out marching and protesting over Nama and budget reforms. There should be hundreds of thousands out for justice for the victims of these animals in dog collars.

[muppet]

So how can you say the church is not responsible when it's the church leaders who are keeping those people in their positions and when the Vatican's silence is deafening!

To me the church is a lot more than the clergy, the church is everyone who is a Catholic, in deed as well as in name.

So you're happy to belong to something when it's leaders are covering up the rape of children?
Happy to have those people preach to you about the best way to live your life?

At this point in my life pints, I know enough to say that my faith is what's most important to me - I am not about to stop going to Mass because of what has been revealed - still not sure about numbers involved here - if the report I read today was accurate then you could be excused for thinking it was a storm in a teacup, in my opinion.

Why what numbers did you read today?
you can have faith without going to mass or subscribing to an organisation that covers up child abuse.

I'd prefer for someone else to quote the figures so I can't be accused of anything, if the figures I read tally with what someone else saw then I will gladly confirm - what I am alluding to is that if what I saw is right, it's much the same as any othe section of society so it's another reason why I am suspicious of so much media attention over it

I mean you don't hear of Protestant ministers being involved in this sort of behaviour yet we know it happened before and was covered up, unionist politicians were also allegedly involved

The Ferns & Dublin Diocese reports are not media creations.

If the Church is to have any integrity at all as representing God it cannot hide behind any excuses.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

A possible quote of Edmund Burke's, but never more apt:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

[pintsofguinness]

So how can you say the church is not responsible when it's the church leaders who are keeping those people in their positions and when the Vatican's silence is deafening!

To me the church is a lot more than the clergy, the church is everyone who is a Catholic, in deed as well as in name.

So you're happy to belong to something when it's leaders are covering up the rape of children?
Happy to have those people preach to you about the best way to live your life?

At this point in my life pints, I know enough to say that my faith is what's most important to me - I am not about to stop going to Mass because of what has been revealed - still not sure about numbers involved here - if the report I read today was accurate then you could be excused for thinking it was a storm in a teacup, in my opinion.

Why what numbers did you read today?
you can have faith without going to mass or subscribing to an organisation that covers up child abuse.

I'd prefer for someone else to quote the figures so I can't be accused of anything, if the figures I read tally with what someone else saw then I will gladly confirm - what I am alluding to is that if what I saw is right, it's much the same as any othe section of society so it's another reason why I am suspicious of so much media attention over it

I mean you don't hear of Protestant ministers being involved in this sort of behaviour yet we know it happened before and was covered up, unionist politicians were also allegedly involved

I dont care if the covered up 1 or dozens or hundreds, the level of disgust should still be the same.
btw, if those bishops covered up child abuse to protect the church do you not think if they were so worried about the church they would be walking away now?

[Main Street]

If a local youth club or GAA club was involved in raping children and the same people who covered it up were in charge, would it still get community suport? Wouldn't darken the door. As early posters said, GOD is everywhere and the church have no monopoly on it. The devil, or evil, sure has been in the church alrite.

The Church hasn't got the monopoly on having evil in its midst.
A paedophile who for decades has abused numerous children managed to get elected to high office in Ulster GAA. When I say numerous, think of multiples of classroom numbers of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1004333.stm

I have no doubt this paedophile used his special position in county GAA and provincial GAA as his evidence that he must be a good man and protect himself from the rumours/suspicions down through the years. I have no doubt that many of those in suits were scurrying around afterwards saying they knew absolutely nothing.

The GAA acknowledges that cases against members are in progress and that convictions have been obtained but it does not offer any details, of positions they held, not even of the numbers involved.

[pintsofguinness]

If a local youth club or GAA club was involved in raping children and the same people who covered it up were in charge, would it still get community suport? Wouldn't darken the door. As early posters said, GOD is everywhere and the church have no monopoly on it. The devil, or evil, sure has been in the church alrite.

The Church hasn't got the monopoly on having evil in its midst.
A paedophile who for decades has abused numerous children managed to get elected to high office in Ulster GAA. When I say numerous, think of multiples of classroom numbers of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1004333.stm

I have no doubt this paedophile used his special position in county GAA and provincial GAA as his evidence that he must be a good man and protect himself from the rumours/suspicions down through the years. I have no doubt that many of those in suits were scurrying around afterwards saying they knew absolutely nothing.

The GAA acknowledges that cases against members are in progress and that convictions have been obtained but it does not offer any details, of positions they held, not even of the numbers involved.

That doesnt have any relevance to what we're talking about main street.

[ardmhachaabu]

So how can you say the church is not responsible when it's the church leaders who are keeping those people in their positions and when the Vatican's silence is deafening!

To me the church is a lot more than the clergy, the church is everyone who is a Catholic, in deed as well as in name.

So you're happy to belong to something when it's leaders are covering up the rape of children?
Happy to have those people preach to you about the best way to live your life?

At this point in my life pints, I know enough to say that my faith is what's most important to me - I am not about to stop going to Mass because of what has been revealed - still not sure about numbers involved here - if the report I read today was accurate then you could be excused for thinking it was a storm in a teacup, in my opinion.

Why what numbers did you read today?
you can have faith without going to mass or subscribing to an organisation that covers up child abuse.

I'd prefer for someone else to quote the figures so I can't be accused of anything, if the figures I read tally with what someone else saw then I will gladly confirm - what I am alluding to is that if what I saw is right, it's much the same as any othe section of society so it's another reason why I am suspicious of so much media attention over it

I mean you don't hear of Protestant ministers being involved in this sort of behaviour yet we know it happened before and was covered up, unionist politicians were also allegedly involved

I dont care if the covered up 1 or dozens or hundreds, the level of disgust should still be the same.
btw, if those bishops covered up child abuse to protect the church do you not think if they were so worried about the church they would be walking away now?

I think that's a matter for them to answer to the Almighty for.  That's not a cop-out to your question either.

With respect to the level of disgust, pints, I am a father, I am no more comfortable with what was done than the next man - in an ideal world, it would never have happened but it has and now the Church has to answer for it - those priests involved, well the sooner they are locked up and the key thrown away the better

[Pangurban]

There has been much discussion here about the causes of Paedophilia and its extent within the Church. For the answer to this dilemna, you need only look into your own Hearts. Man is inherently sinful, we all have some Vices, some desires we fail to control, be it Drink,Drugs,Womenm Gambling etc.  No amount of reform within the Church or wider society will alter this fact. Abuse will continue, be assured of that. All we can do is remain vigilant, prevent some of it, and where possible make the abusers accountable to the law. Good Men fail frequently in their duties to speak up in the face of wrongdoing, is there one amongst us who has not. For the sake of the Church i would like to see a mass resignation of all the Bishops in Ireland, and their replacements appointed with input from the laity. I would like the Government to recall our representative to the Holy See, until we receive proper transparency and accountability from the Vatican. But i recognise that even if all this were to happen, it would not prevent future cases of abuse. Dysfunctional Men are the problem, whether in Church or Civil Society, and they will always be with us

[pintsofguinness]

With respect to the level of disgust, pints, I am a father, I am no more comfortable with what was done than the next man - in an ideal world, it would never have happened but it has and now the Church has to answer for it - those priests involved, well the sooner they are locked up and the key thrown away the better

But you're still happy to be part of an organisation who still will not act and will are happy to have people who have covered this up in their ranks and in leadership positions.  I don't understand that.