Clerical abuse!

[T Fearon]

Resort to personal abuse when you have no valid argument.Mishandling child abuse is not facilitating it.

[Hardy]

All the more reason for the parents to ensure their children weren't "terrorised" by insisting that they too attend the meeting, or at least find out the purpose of the meeting

Are you beginning to see why we call it a 'cover up'?

Of course the parents asked. But Smyth and co chose their victims from the devout (i.e. vulnerable). They were believers and did what the Church told them.

Brendan Boland's father attended his son's 'interview', but still wasn't let into the room. Outside the room, Sean Brady gave the father an oath that Smyth wouldn't bother children again. Boland's father believed him. He later realised that was a mistake and went to the Gárdaí.

Clearly, in a particularly sick mind, Mr. Boland is the monster in this scenario as the holy Brady did everything he could to protect his child from him.

[longballin]

So we have different classes of parents now,those who act responsibly and those cowered by fear of people wearing a clerical collar? And Brendan Smyth was able to control his paedophile instincts until he got to know and discern which type of parents his victims belonged to? What utter tosh.

The people ultimately responsible for paedophilia, in the Church,the BBC or in any other walk of life are the paedophiles themselves.That this was grossly mishandled in decades past by the guardians of the institutions and in some cases by the parents of victims is beyond question.But to lead a campaign of vitriol against one priest,not involved in paedophilia, just because he happened to occupy a position of Cardinal,a half lifetime later is scandalous.

You really are a vile individual the church facilitated Smyth moving him around Ireland giving him fresh new victims, these b**tards know the children to target, vulnerable kids who maybe have issues at home.  You seriously are a horrible, vile, unchristian fuckwit, I take it you have no kids to busy licking the altar rails and posting vile on here.

always wonder as well at Tony's comments on church paedophilia... sick mindset

[muppet]

So we have different classes of parents now,those who act responsibly and those cowered by fear of people wearing a clerical collar? And Brendan Smyth was able to control his paedophile instincts until he got to know and discern which type of parents his victims belonged to? What utter tosh.

The people ultimately responsible for paedophilia, in the Church,the BBC or in any other walk of life are the paedophiles themselves.That this was grossly mishandled in decades past by the guardians of the institutions and in some cases by the parents of victims is beyond question.But to lead a campaign of vitriol against one priest,not involved in paedophilia, just because he happened to occupy a position of Cardinal,a half lifetime later is scandalous.

But then this isn't quite the full story is it?

This man silenced 2 child victims who were willing to point the finger at a monstrous pedophile.
He then took high office, replacing a man who resigned because of his failure to act properly against the same pedophile.
While in high office his organisation fought for over a decade to conceal his own failure to deal with this monster BEFORE his predecessor's failure. Even his taking the job on those grounds is absolutely galling.
He insisted (even seeking and getting an apology from the Indo) that his role was merely as a 'notary' (something Fearon shouted from the rooftops) until the courts finally forced the Church to hand over his notes. The notes proved he was an 'investigator'. Why did he not tell the truth?

Then all the while he lectured us on moral issues from his highest of horses.

And when it all came out, he still didn't get it. Cahal Daly deserves respect, as he fell on his sword honourably and promptly. Brady clung to power when even a Fianna Fail Minister would have walked.

Then of course after the Murphy report, but crucially before the courts forced his involvement to be made public, he said this:

"If I found myself in a situation where I was aware that my failure to act had allowed or meant that other children were abused, well then, I think I would resign."

Well his failure to act decisively meant that there were over a 100 more events of abuse against children by Smyth. Worse than that, 3 children that had been named to him by Brendan Boland were abused after his failure to act to protect them. As were relatives of theirs.

And Tony's concern is more for this man than the child victims of sexual abuse.

[T Fearon]

Clung to power? Are you for real? The man wanted out of Dodge years ago but the Pope insisted he stayed until a suitable replacement was found.

I don't see what the issue here is.Both Sean Brady and Mr Boland's father,by your admission, were aware of allegations against Brendan Smyth.Neither went to the Police.If Sean Brady deserves vilification for this then logically Mr Boland does equally.

I happen to think though the situation both men faced in the mid 70s was far more complex.They were not aware of Smyth's monstrous long term activities and probably both believed that the actions they had taken would have been sufficient to stop Smyth.Both were let down by Church seniors at the time.

[muppet]

Clung to power? Are you for real? The man wanted out of Dodge years ago but the Pope insisted he stayed until a suitable replacement was found.

I don't see what the issue here is.Both Sean Brady and Mr Boland's father,by your admission, were aware of allegations against Brendan Smyth.Neither went to the Police.If Sean Brady deserves vilification for this then logically Mr Boland does equally.

I happen to think though the situation both men faced in the mid 70s was far more complex.They were not aware of Smyth's monstrous long term activities and probably both believed that the actions they had taken would have been sufficient to stop Smyth.Both were let down by Church seniors at the time.

Of course Brady clung to power. Even his departure was cringeworthy in the extreme where he insisted it was because of Canon Law, thus implying that it was for no other reason. Yet other Cardinals managed to man up and resign, for example the Scottish Cardinal. In fact Ratzinger, the Pope, resigned. Imagine that, the Pope resigned but Brady claimed he couldn't resign because the Pope wouldn't let him. Bloody superiors eh? Or bloody coward?

Your need to stick the knife into abused families is absolutely horrifying to many posters here and yet you persist with it. Many of them are parents and, while I know nothing about you, it is clear that you are not a parent. You couldn't possibly be and write the above. Children are entrusted into the care of others over and over every day, whether it is school, GAA, swimming lessons, babysitters, sleepovers etc, etc, etc.

If you shelter your child from all of the above, God help them. Good parents try to involve their kids in as much as possible. Sadly the horrors of clerical abuse has undermined that enormously, but most parents will still find a way to make sure their kids get involved in activities.

[T Fearon]

But you said Mr Boland was aware of abuse allegations against his child,but didn't go to the Police.You give him a free pass for this but crucify Sean Brady for the same failure.That is hypocrisy.If Brady is guilty so is Mr Boland,there is no other logic I'm afraid.

[muppet]

But you said Mr Boland was aware of abuse allegations against his child,but didn't go to the Police.You give him a free pass for this but crucify Sean Brady for the same failure.That is hypocrisy.If Brady is guilty so is Mr Boland,there is no other logic I'm afraid.

Logic? 

Brady gave an oath to Mr. Boland that no more children would be abused by Smyth. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

Mr. Boland made a mistake by trusting Brady. No question about that, now that we know what sort of man Sean Brady is.

Then, AND YOU KEEP IGNORING THIS, when the Bolands discovered Brady didn't honour his oath, THEY WENT TO THE POLICE.

The Bolands went to the police.

Sean Brady never went to the police. He never came clean about his role until forced to by the Bolands. And that was only after the Church fought for 11 years in the courts to hide his involvement.

Sean Brady did nothing for the children that he was informed were being abused, or at risk of abuse, by Brendan Smyth. When the Boland Dad realised this, he went to the Police.

He went to the police. How often do you have to be told?

[seafoid]

Headline in Le Monde today was child abuse by priests in France..

[T Fearon]

Do you not consider Brady genuinely thought something would have been done about Smyth on the basis of his report? If Sean Brady was criminally negligent why hasn't he been arrested by the Police?

I am perfectly clear that historical child abuse claims were woefully mishandled by the Church,but that doesn't equate with outrageous claims on this thread of facilitating paedophiles.

[seafoid]

Do you not consider Brady genuinely thought something would have been done about Smyth on the basis of his report? If Sean Brady was criminally negligent why hasn't he been arrested by the Police?

I am perfectly clear that historical child abuse claims were woefully mishandled by the Church,but that doesn't equate with outrageous claims on this thread of facilitating paedophiles.

The church was untouchable in the 70s.Victims all had similar profiles. Weak, poor, unlikely to say anything. the church was more interested in  the status quo than in morality. 

[muppet]

Do you not consider Brady genuinely thought something would have been done about Smyth on the basis of his report? If Sean Brady was criminally negligent why hasn't he been arrested by the Police?

I am perfectly clear that historical child abuse claims were woefully mishandled by the Church,but that doesn't equate with outrageous claims on this thread of facilitating paedophiles.

The oaths were illegal at the time. He should have been prosecuted on that alone.

He never made his involvement known to the Gardai, even when he was promoted because of other people's failure to deal with Smyth. The Church, with him at the helm, then did everything they could to prevent the revelation of his involvement and were successful until a few years ago.

The problem is that the Church were so successful in covering everything up that the law had changed, Smyth was dead and any investigation was long over, so sadly Brady appears to be in the clear.

But as a religious leader, he has not a shred of credibility as far I am concerned.

[T Fearon]

There is not a person in this world who would willingly reveal skeletons in his cupboard,particularly a Cardinal knowing that the anti catholic media etc would have a field day.

The key thing in all of this is that Sean Brady reported accurately his findings to his Bishop.It was at this level that the victims were failed.

[imtommygunn]

It is what you focus on as the key thing. It's like when you focus on facts but pick about one or two and ignore the rest.

[Franko]

It all boils down to faith.

Well that's it then lads.  Pack up your things and go, this debate is done.

Why do you keep doing this?

Surely you recognised the sarcasm in that comment?

Though it's ironic that YOU would ask ME this question given the way this thread has been going.