Clerical abuse!

[All of a Sludden]

In my opinion any adult who receives communion as a member of the Roman Catholic church is an apologist for child sexual abuse and the facilitation of such abuse.

[theskull1]

The Church was founded by Christ.

No it wasn't

[Lar Naparka]

Thats about as sick as it gets. How anyone can ignore these issues while still chewing the altar rails of a Sunday needs their head examining.

Do they still have altar rails? I thought they were abandoned along with kneeling, communion on the tongue and celibacy.

Kissing a bishop's ring is no longer necessary if you want to get on in life.
Any of them who hankers for the "Good Ol' Days" will have a DIY job on his hands if he can get around to it.

[ardchieftain]

In my opinion any adult who receives communion as a member of the Roman Catholic church is an apologist for child sexual abuse and the facilitation of such abuse.

Have to strongly agree with these sentiments.

[The Boy Wonder]

In my opinion any adult who receives communion as a member of the Roman Catholic church is an apologist for child sexual abuse and the facilitation of such abuse.

Have to strongly agree with these sentiments.

The above gives a good indication of the IQs of these 2 posters.

[armaghniac]

In my opinion any adult who receives communion as a member of the Roman Catholic church is an apologist for child sexual abuse and the facilitation of such abuse.

Have to strongly agree with these sentiments.

The above gives a good indication of the IQs of these 2 posters.

Whatever about the posters having a low IQ, this kind of thing makes no contribution. It is a bit like those who say that anyone flying the tricolour is an apologist for the La Mon bombing.

[Eamonnca1]

In my opinion any adult who receives communion as a member of the Roman Catholic church is an apologist for child sexual abuse and the facilitation of such abuse.

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I'd say habit, peer pressure and routine are bigger motivators of people who still go to the pineapple.

[Main Street]

In my opinion any adult who receives communion as a member of the Roman Catholic church is an apologist for child sexual abuse and the facilitation of such abuse.

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I'd say habit, peer pressure and routine are bigger motivators of people who still go to the pineapple.

These days. maybe the diploma certifying that such and such a person has achieved a state of grace comes with a breakfast cereal, but any person who sincerely wants to participate in the act of communion, are attempting to participate themselves in a personal communion with Christ, nothing  to do with the hand that serves the wafer.

[Lar Naparka]

In my opinion any adult who receives communion as a member of the Roman Catholic church is an apologist for child sexual abuse and the facilitation of such abuse.

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I'd say habit, peer pressure and routine are bigger motivators of people who still go to the pineapple.

These days. maybe the diploma certifying that such and such a person has achieved a state of grace comes with a breakfast cereal, but any person who sincerely wants to participate in the act of communion, are attempting to participate themselves in a personal communion with Christ, nothing  to do with the hand that serves the wafer.

That's put very well. I share  your point of view.

[theskull1]

Is it indoctrination which stops them seeing that this "sacrament" is just an interpreted human construct? I think the majority follow eamonnca1's reasoning.....peer pressure with whole families too heavily invested in the practice of going to mass. There's a serious amount of going through the motions.

[Lar Naparka]

Is it indoctrination which stops them seeing that this "sacrament" is just an interpreted human construct? I think the majority follow eamonnca1's reasoning.....peer pressure with whole families too heavily invested in the practice of going to mass. There's a serious amount of going through the motions.

You may very well be right but, for me, if they do so in good conscience and believe they are communing with Christ, they have every right to do so.
I don't share their beliefs but I have no definitive proof that they are wrong.
I'm somewhat sceptical when someone claims that God made the world but Stephen Hawking's theory that matter keeps appearing from nowhere is just as hard to accept.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704206804575467921609024244.html

[muppet]

The Church has every right to tell non-conforming members to leave. There shouldn't be any argument there. It doesn't matter if you think it is hypocritical or not.

I've stayed off this thread but your endless torrent of superior, self-appointed crusader shite sickens me.

Members of the church have the right to voice their opinion on its governance and teachings and, where appropriate, suggest reforms that they believe are needed. It doesn't matter if you're stupid enough to think being a Catholic is about doing what the Church tells you and accepting it as, pun intended, gospel.

I'm not trying to be superior - I'm trying to bring another side to the argument / discussion.
I don't understand how my comment, still included above, would upset you?

The Church was founded by Christ. The teachings of the Church are not new laws that are passed every year by collective vote. Members are not polled to decide whether or not this should happen or that. Catholics believe the teachings are passed down through the councils over the centuries by the Power of the Holy Spirit (who Catholic believe is God). So if Catholics believe in God and His Church then they follow it's teachings.....

I don't know how to communicate that any other way.

That is not completely accurate.

The Roman Papacy is based on a document known as the Donation of Constantine.

The Catholic Church acknowledged in the 15th Century that the above document was a forgery, probably created in the 8th or 9th centuries.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05118a.htm

The reality is that Roman Catholics worship the Roman Pope because of the above forgery. If we stuck to thr true lineage we should probably be members of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

I always wondered at the word 'Orthodox' in its title.

[muppet]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23807189

Cardinal Keith O'Brien 'blocked church sex abuse report', says archbishop

Cardinal Keith O'Brien was President of the Conference of Scottish Bishops

The former archbishop of Glasgow has said Cardinal Keith O'Brien blocked a report into sex abuse in the church.

Writing to the Tablet, Emeritus Archbishop of Glasgow Mario Conti said Cardinal O'Brien, who has admitted sexual misconduct with other priests, prevented the investigation.

Other Scottish bishops had agreed the inquiry should go ahead.

However, the Catholic paper's deputy editor said the church should have proceeded with an audit anyway.

Elena Curtis said: "Cardinal O'Brien was one bishop and there would have been no reason why the other bishops couldn't have proceeded with an independent audit without him."

'Low credibility'
Alan Draper, an academic who was appointed in mid-1990s to advise the Church on sexual abuse and how to respond to it, said he was surprised by Archbishop Conti's claims.

"What does that tell you about the other bishops? Where is their personal integrity?

"Were they not prepared to say 'the survivors and victims are demanding these sorts of reviews', we're going ahead with it?

"Until they do that, they'll continue to have very low credibility among the laity."

The Catholic Church has said an audit of abuse cases in the past six years is to be published soon, and that it will engage in any process which allows "lessons to be learned".

Archbishop Conti told the Catholic paper he was confident the percentage of priests involved in abuse was small.

Commenting on the continuing investigation into allegations of sexual and physical abuse at Fort Augustus School, Archbishop Conti said he would have alerted the proper authorities if the allegations had been made to him while he was Bishop of Aberdeen.

He held that post from 1977 to 2002.

Meanwhile a senior Liberal Democrat peer has called for an independent inquiry into allegations of abuse at Fort Augustus Abbey School. Lord Carlile also called for prosecutions to be considered.

Safeguarding
Archbishop Conti, in his letter to the Tablet, said: "It was the intention of all but one member of the bishops' conference to commission an independent examination of the historical cases we had on file in all of our respective dioceses and publish the results but this was delayed by the objection of the then-President of the Conference; without full participation of all the dioceses the exercise would have been faulty."

He pointed out that historical cases are now being examined, adding: "I understand that in the light of the criticisms the Church has been facing, these audits will now be published.

"I think they will go some way towards confirming Bishop Joseph Devine of Motherwell's remarks that the percentage of priests involved in abuse is 'tiny', and in demonstrating the seriousness and competence with which the Church in Scotland has been dealing with safeguarding in all its implications for many years."

Without the participation of all the dioceses a 'National Audit' was not possible so the analysis was stopped"

Catholic Church statement
Archbishop Conti's letter also addresses allegations of abuse at the Benedictine school at Fort Augustus.

He said the school was not "under the jurisdiction" of the church in Scotland because of its position as a Benedictine community.

He insisted, however, that this would not have prevented him from acting if the allegations had been brought to him as the senior church figure in the area.

Archbishop Conti added: "If any of these allegations had been made to me while I was Bishop of Aberdeen from 1977 to 2002, I would have alerted the proper authorities to them."

A statement from the Catholic Church in Scotland said: "Archbishop Conti's letter refers to a decision taken in 2011 by the Bishops' Conference of Scotland to commission an independent academic analysis of statistics relating to abuse and allegations of abuse over a 60 year period from 1952 to 2012.

"This project, with the cooperation of each of the eight dioceses in Scotland, started and ran until 2012, at which time, the then President of the Conference, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, withdrew from the project.

"Without the participation of all the dioceses a 'National Audit' was not possible so the analysis was stopped."

Pointing out that the Bishops' Conference decided in 2013 to publish audits by the National Safeguarding Office, it added: "The Church remains willing to engage in any process which allows lessons to be learned and survivors to be supported."

[orangeman]

I see Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is being seen positively by the new pope and it is rumoured he's going to be assigned to a department in the Vatican.


Good to see him getting recognition.

[orangeman]

The Vatican is to set up a special committee to improve measures to protect children against sexual abuse within the Catholic Church.

"Up until now there has been so much focus on the judicial parts of this but the pastoral part is very, very important. The Holy Father is concerned about that," Cardinal Sean Patrick O'Malley said, referring to Pope Francis.

The commission of experts would "study these issues and bring concrete recommendations" for the Pope and the Vatican.

Cardinal O'Malley was speaking on the third and final day of a series of closed-door meetings between Pope Francis and a special commission of eight cardinals who are discussing the Vatican's troubled administration.

The commission, named a month after the pope's election, underlined his determination to push through reforms of the Vatican's top-heavy administration and tackle festering scandals like the issue of sexual abuse of children by priests