Refugees

Started by Mayo4Sam14, September 03, 2015, 04:42:21 PM

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Kursk

ok Muppet, you are right.

Kursk

Interesting times ahead. It is not hard to imagine a theocratic state evolve in Turkey, a Sunni version of Iran. Turkey may move from an importer of refugees to become a net exporter of refugees.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/11/03/did-turks-vote-to-become-an-islamic-state.html

muppet

Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 12:46:23 PM
ok Muppet, you are right.

When you arrived it seemed you had something different to say, which was interesting. You seemed to be advocating that we should be more willing to ally ourselves with the East rather than the West. Some people probed this notion to see what was behind it all but unfortunately to date you haven't articulated enough to suggest there is anything behind the idea. Blaming the 'PC Brigade' for all evils is a rather flimsy basis for revolution. Bad as the PC Brigade were, they have had their benefits, unless you think, just for example, that slavery, racism and misogyny weren't all that bad.

I was hoping you would develop your arguments, which i would have enjoyed. I learn about as much from the smarter posters on here as I do from anywhere else. In that regard this can be a great site. Just because we don't all agree on some issues doesn't mean we still aren't influenced by those making the arguments we disagree with.
MWWSI 2017

Kursk

I'm not convinced that anyone is making an argument "for" anything on here. This board, in so far as I can see, contains heavy anti-US and anti-EU sentiment yet any suggestion of changing the status quo is not discussed or is actively derided. This is not unique to here of course. I see this on other boards and in the media.

That is the fundamental dynamic in the west. Not only do people not seemed to defend their way of life and the actions of their government they seem to love attacking it...! I understand the need to self-criticism but it has gone to far imo. In Europe It is now a fatal weakness.

I keep hearing about the cost of leaving the EU...is that cost offset by the debt we've been landed in and the loss of political freedom ? The cost of the second part is hard to quantify but it feels huge at this point in time.

But, since this thread is about refugees, the subject should be limited to that.

My position is 4000 over 4 to 5 years is enough. It would seem to me that since (afaik) the protocols and agreements have not specified any numbers we cannot be deemed to have broken any agreements by setting a number ourself.



foxcommander

Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 02:47:53 PM
I'm not convinced that anyone is making an argument "for" anything on here. This board, in so far as I can see, contains heavy anti-US and anti-EU sentiment yet any suggestion of changing the status quo is not discussed or is actively derided. This is not unique to here of course. I see this on other boards and in the media.

That is the fundamental dynamic in the west. Not only do people not seemed to defend their way of life and the actions of their government they seem to love attacking it...! I understand the need to self-criticism but it has gone to far imo. In Europe It is now a fatal weakness.

I keep hearing about the cost of leaving the EU...is that cost offset by the debt we've been landed in and the loss of political freedom ? The cost of the second part is hard to quantify but it feels huge at this point in time.

But, since this thread is about refugees, the subject should be limited to that.

My position is 4000 over 4 to 5 years is enough. It would seem to me that since (afaik) the protocols and agreements have not specified any numbers we cannot be deemed to have broken any agreements by setting a number ourself.

Whatever number comes into Endas head at the time will be announced then corrected by how many Angela wants Ireland to take in.
So 5000 will become 50000 when all families etc are brought in. And that's just for starters.

Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

Kursk

To be fair, since there does not appear to be any number specified in any agreement anywhere, Merkel is probably , in her mind, sticking strictly to the "spirit" of the 1951 agreement (I haven't read the 1967 update). She is , however, unilaterally suspending the Dublin agreement by inviting them straight to Germany.

What people don't seem to understand, or don't care, is that once refugees are in a "country" , at least by my interpretation of what I have read, they are free to move anywhere within that "country". Germany may be Nirvana for now. That could change very quickly. Where do they go after that ? Protesting to Germany later on that "you invited them in" will be worthless.

So this idea that we have a say in any "allocation" process will be meaningless. The refugees themselves will make that decision, backed by International law.

foxcommander

Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 03:41:29 PM
To be fair, since there does not appear to be any number specified in any agreement anywhere, Merkel is probably , in her mind, sticking strictly to the "spirit" of the 1951 agreement (I haven't read the 1967 update). She is , however, unilaterally suspending the Dublin agreement by inviting them straight to Germany.

What people don't seem to understand, or don't care, is that once refugees are in a "country" , at least by my interpretation of what I have read, they are free to move anywhere within that "country". Germany may be Nirvana for now. That could change very quickly. Where do they go after that ? Protesting to Germany later on that "you invited them in" will be worthless.

So this idea that we have a say in any "allocation" process will be meaningless. The refugees themselves will make that decision, backed by International law.

Exactly - what's to stop 2 million refugees from deciding that Ireland would become New Syria or New Nigeria if given EU passports? You can't stop anyone from wanting to move within the zone once in.

A quick Ryanair flight, get down the dole office and bingo!


Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

Eamonnca1

Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:56:10 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 05:11:42 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

foxcommander

#338
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:56:10 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 05:11:42 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

Did you go to Oakland yet? ;)
You can tell me what an awesome integration job they've done after your visit..if you make it back alive.
Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

Rossfan

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:56:10 AM


He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.
If only ye'd respect the Natives and give them their land back........
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

LeoMc

Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 03:41:29 PM
To be fair, since there does not appear to be any number specified in any agreement anywhere, Merkel is probably , in her mind, sticking strictly to the "spirit" of the 1951 agreement (I haven't read the 1967 update). She is , however, unilaterally suspending the Dublin agreement by inviting them straight to Germany.

What people don't seem to understand, or don't care, is that once refugees are in a "country" , at least by my interpretation of what I have read, they are free to move anywhere within that "country". Germany may be Nirvana for now. That could change very quickly. Where do they go after that ? Protesting to Germany later on that "you invited them in" will be worthless.

So this idea that we have a say in any "allocation" process will be meaningless. The refugees themselves will make that decision, backed by International law.

It will be interesting to see how the Tories get on in their re-negotiations. One stance they were looking at regarding free movement was that it entitled you to move to a job not to move to look for one. Not sure how that would be taken by the English on welfare in Ireland, Germany & Spain though.

AZOffaly

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:56:10 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 05:11:42 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

Eamonn I'm not sure about that at all. In Arizona, immigration from Mexico is a huge problem, and they have never dealt with it properly. And as for assimilation, I think the ghettoisation of Mexican immigrants in cities like Phoenix and LA, and Cuban immigrants in Miami, is a big problem. Granted, a lad that moves to the US for a job is assimilated very quickly, the US process does seem to be blind to colour and creed as long as the red tape is in order.

It's a great country, but I'm not sure I'd say they have immigration sorted out completely.

Eamonnca1

Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:56:10 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 05:11:42 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

Did you go to Oakland yet? ;)
You can tell me what an awesome integration job they've done after your visit..if you make it back alive.

I've been to Oakland many times. What of it?

foxcommander

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 04, 2015, 11:43:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 09:56:10 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 03, 2015, 05:11:42 AM
Play the "PC brigade" drinking game. Take a shot every time some Tory gives out about the "PC brigade" insisting on treating their fellow human beings with a bit of dignity.

He has a point. What would your plan be Eamonn ? Its easy to be blasé out there in California.

We have immigrants in California too. I'm one if them. Aside from a bit of bluster from right wing politicians, America does a reasonable job of assimilating people from diverse backgrounds. A much better job than a lot of European countries. Occasionally America gets something right.

Did you go to Oakland yet? ;)
You can tell me what an awesome integration job they've done after your visit..if you make it back alive.

I've been to Oakland many times. What of it?

Obviously your memory is failing you when I asked you where did you go in Oakland last time around...very selective.

I bet it wasn't in any minority neighbourhood ;)

just to remind you of when you wouldn't tell me where you went in oakland...

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25757.435
Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

Eamonnca1

This thread is about refugees. Which refugee neighbourhood or immigrant neighbourhood would you like me to visit in Oakland?