Messages

[While people are paying mortgages, even those in negative equity, as long as they keeppaying the equity will become positive,]

The banks have to start lending again somehow.  I know it's easier said than done but the banks are looking between 25 and 40% deposit to buy a house now, there are virtually no first time buyers under 40 who would have 40k+ sitting in the bank.  It doesn't matter how low interest rates go or how cheap houses get if no one can get a mortgage then the building industry will never start moving again.

Maiden it was not that long ago that a 20% deposit for a house was the norm.
The banks lent people money based on there salaries x 5.  Madness.
The other problem maiden is that sellers are still in denial.
I have been trying to buy a house for the last 6 months.
They are massively overvalued.  I am not being cheeky but any offer i make for a property now will have to take into account further falls that will happen over the next year.

maybe I am not getting he full picture, but banks IMO are shooting themselves in the foot (slitting themselves in the throat more apt maybe) by stopping conducting business.

There may be a number of businesses out there that are risks and should not be lent to, but this clamming up and lending to nobody is not going to help. It will make things worse.

Imo by not lending, a reasonably secure business coul dhit the rocks, the employees lose jobs, they cant pay the mortgage- it hits the bank full pelt in the stomach there !

While people are paying mortgages, even those in negative equity, as long as they keeppaying the equity will become positive, the money circulates and the banks, businesses etc all get paid - as long as the banks open some bit for business again.


I disagree with what that ucd 'economist ' says as well.
While he is correct in his opinion that most building workers dont have an education (and are as thick as feck) , the gov could as they are hinting at, start/continue to build new schools, railways, roads etc and a lot of these unemployed builders can be re-employed in this.

Also I have mentioned prev that there could be a lot more jobs created in eco industry, but alas I fear its too soon for that technology to create many jobs as yet.

to overcome this problem , clamming up and hoping it will go away wont work.
We need to trade out recession away. Stopping doing business will destroy any amount of money being thrown around thats supposed to help.

Lynchboy,  property was massively overvalued.  We have seen in the last 10 years(take out the last 18 months), the biggest rise in house prices here yet wages did not keep pace.  The fall in property prices has to be as big as the fall IMO.  Add to this more and more people becoming unemployed , it may take an awful long time for people to clear negative equity.  Whats the point of repaying an interest only mortgage where you're house is worth £70000 less than the mortgage.
I would just give back the keys.
And that is the problem for the banks.  They do not just have the toxic assets of the mega rich, they also have a huge portfolio of First time buyers who the lent out interest only mortgages to.  These are just as toxic.

Bailout number 2 the UK is not having the desired effect.

The big banks are suffering losses on the stockmarket today.

RBS have lost 65% in one day(12p a share)
LloydTSB have lost 25%
HSBC down 12%
Barclays down 10%

I think that RBS could be nationalised before the week or even today is out.

Things are not looking good.
The throw money at the banks approach and get them to lend, is not working.
Even if they were lending, people would be very wary of taking on debt in the current economic climate.
Re inflating the housing bubble is not the answer either.

Will Seanie Johnston be back for Cavan in the national league??

And is there not something about Robbie Keane leaving a club and then they get relegated??
Leeds and Coventry spring to mind.  Could Spurs be next??

For those thinking about buying a house.  Taken from the irish times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0113/1231738220759.html?via=mr

Warning that house prices may fall by 80%
In this section »

LAURA SLATTERY

HOUSING MARKET: IRELAND WILL see more demolition than construction of houses over the next decade, as the economy struggles to recover from the collapse of the housing market and the emergence of "zombie" banks, UCD economist Morgan Kelly told the conference.

In a presentation that drew several collective intakes of breath, Mr Kelly predicted that house prices would fall by 80 per cent from peak to trough in real terms.

"Construction, but not demolition, of residential and commercial property will fall to zero for the foreseeable future," he said.

Low levels of education among those employed in construction – where worker numbers peaked at about 280,000 – meant retraining would not be straightforward.

Recovery will be slow: "It has taken us 10 years to get into this situation – it will in all likelihood take us 10 years to get out of it."

Mr Kelly said he had been hailed as being extremely prescient as a result of his warnings in relation to the property bubble, when in fact he and a handful of other "amateurs" were merely stating what was obvious.

Sparing no blushes, he said professional economists in the Central Bank and the Economic and Social Research Institute "need to look very closely at their analyses of the Irish economy and figure out what went wrong".

Mr Kelly said Ireland's "reputational capital" had been damaged by "chancers" such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by "buffoons" such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach.

In discussing the €110 billion given in loans to developers, Mr Kelly said a typical regional housing collapse in the US saw banks sustain a 20 per cent loss on these loans, but the narrowness of the Irish market increased the risk of "substantially larger losses" for Irish banks.

"The guarantees of Anglo and [Irish] Nationwide liabilities have a strong chance of being called in over the next 21 months," he said. Extending the Government guarantee to these two financial institutions was "extraordinarily unwise" and could produce losses that the State cannot afford to repay.

The global financial crisis may have been positive for the Irish economy as it "stopped us dragging ourselves even deeper into our hole," he said. "If it had taken another year or two, we would have ended up in an Icelandic-shaped hole, which is not to say that we won't end up in one."

Mr Kelly said the Government should abolish stamp duty on property, compile proper price and quantity statistics and restore competitiveness through a public sector pay cut of 10 per cent.

A paper by TCD economist Patrick Honohan on the banking crisis argued that capital injections in the banks were a prerequisite for recovery. The financial regulator needed to decide now which banks had systemic importance to the economy – in other words, are "too big to fail", and which are "zombie" banks.

"The goal is to avoid the continued operation of an undercapitalised, error-prone bank with a flawed business model and administrative practices, a problematic customer base and a compromised management facing distorted incentives," the paper stated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/7833429.stm

Liverpool winger Jermaine Pennant says he does not want to join Portsmouth after the two clubs agreed a fee.

The 26-year-old was expected to go for talks at Fratton Park in the next few days, but he remains convinced his future is at Anfield.

"My preference is to stay at Liverpool and I am still hoping to do so. I do not want to leave," said Pennant.

"I am happy to compete for my place here and hope that I am given the chance to do so."

Pennant has played 81 times for Liverpool since joining from Birmingham in July 2006, but has only featured four times so far this season.

Pompey boss Tony Adams, who knows Pennant from their time together at Arsenal, is desperate to sign a player who has been interesting Real Madrid and AC Milan.

"Jermaine is a player I have been tracking because he is not getting regular first-team football," said Adams.

"I realised he wasn't in the team at Liverpool, he was a bit-part player, and I said to our executive chairman Peter Storrie that we might be able to give him a platform to play football.

"We have had a bid accepted by Liverpool and we want to get him down here ASAP."

Pennant began his career with Notts County before moving to Arsenal and he also played on loan for Watford and Leeds before joining Birmingham.

Looks like Pennant is happy enough earning £40,000 a week for bench warming.

It's true.  there is a massive amount of job security in teaching.
I love my job and could not imagine myself doing anything else.
I did not get into it for the wages.
I could have done something else and made more money but i wanted a work life balance.

Hmm, as someone else said, it appears to be jealousy of teachers' job security which drives a few people's petty hatred of the profession.

Nail hit on the head.

Fermgael's initial point about rewarding 'teachers' as opposed to those who receive financial recognition for noting down when a school bus is being used would be a minor bugbear of mine. But, unfortunately, it is next to impossible gathering conclusive evidence that one teacher's excellence excels another with subject, academic level of group and age differences.


That's pushing it. Nurses get a rough deal.

Agreed it is hard to define an "excellent" teacher but it is something that needs to be explored.

Nurses get an awful rough deal. 

Not in the INTO by the way, but could either of you, in the light of the current economic position, justify a) the pay rise and b) the industrial action?

a) Can  jusity a pay rise because we are looking parity with England and Wales.

What i am more concerned with is the rest of the reasons for taking industrial action.
I think it is essential to have an incremental based pay scale for those teachers who just want to TEACH.
To be rewarded for being a "excellent" teacher would be alot more interesting to me than having to wait on HOD jobs, yearhead jobs etc.
Now how you qualify an "excellent"  teacher is open to debate but i think the principle behind it is worth it


b)  The unions have been going on about this for over 2 years.  It should have been sorted by now.
Sometimes you have to take a stand but with current economics the way they are, an all out strike would have went down like a lead balloon.
This was the only option they were left with.

Whether it has the desired affect or not, depends on the members

Toally agree with SS2. Talk about teachers having their heads up their hole. Teachers are lucky to be in a relatively secure and well paid job during the current time.

Teachers are a pain in the hole..For ever complaining about the hours they work  and how stressfull their jobs are 
As if they had the most important job known to man and no other occupation was stressful... 
As for the hours they work  Give me a f**king break

100% right and now in the midst of economic gloom, we have teachers going on industrial for more money. At a time when thousands of people are losing their jobs and homes, these work-shy heroes (180 x 5 hour days in a school year, jobs for life based on a 15 minute interview etc., most of whom wouldn't last 15 minutes in a real job) have the audacity to ask for a pay increase.

Shameful and just shows how out of touch with reality teachers really are.

I.N.T.O propaganda alert

who did all the scoring for st marys?

Lads how did the Queens full back McGovern play??

Just back from BallyShannon there now.
Very poor game played in very bad conditions.
From a Fermanagh perspective the positives were Shane Lyons at full back and Paul Johnston at corner back.
Midfield was disappointing but they were up against a very strong and experienced Donegal midfield.
Still think Carson would make a great full forward or center half forward. He hit one or two lovely passes.
Up front Ryder did well when they got the ball into him.  He looks like he could be a rough diamond but as somebody else pointed out,
the Donegal full back was not the best. 
Killie did well in the corner and hit a couple of very nice frees.  Just needs to back himself more often.

Do not think Fermanagh were to annoyed about the game.  I think O'Rourke would prefer to get them at hard training for the next month or so

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7822574.stm

Prince Harry apologises for using racist language to describe a member of his army platoon.
The News of the World paper said it had a video of the army lieutenant calling a colleague a 'Paki' while pretending to make a phone call to the Queen.
The prince had to apologise in 2005 for wearing a swastika armband to a party, which offended many Jewish people.
A statement from St James Palace said he did so three years ago as a nickname about a friend and without any malice.

Tony must be gutted