The State Of Gaelic Football

[Keyser soze]

There is a wile lot of chat on here about saturday's game being a lowscoring snorefest. And it was a snorefest. Though Ive seen plenty just as bad, at least the closeness of the scores kept me watching.

However would I not be correct in thinking that during that match on saturday night both teams had ample, relatively simple, chances to increase their score? Derry certainly butchered 2 goal chances in the first half and kicked a few easy wides and short ones. Dublin kicked at least 5 wides and at least 3 relatively straightforward kicks into the keepers hands at the start of the second half. The scoreline on either or both sides could easily have been doubled with a bit more accuracy or on a better night.

[sheamy]

there's a real danger of common sense and reality breaking out here.

derry could/should have scored 1-10 easily. dublin probably a similar tally points wise.

there has been some crap talked this week.

[AZOffaly]

What crap has been talked?

Is there a very defensive mindset creeping into the game now (or has already done so) as coaches realise that it's the best way to keep the score down?
Is this affecting the game as a spectacle?

If the answers to those two are yes, and yes, then I don't think there's been a lot of crap talked. I think it's a discussion on whether we need to do anything about it. Do we care about the spectacle, or do we only care about our team winning, and we are happy if every other game our team is not involved in is a dour, defensive arm wrestle?

Some people would fall into the latter category, especially coaches, and I can understand the sentiment. As I've said before, I'd prefer my team to win a crap game than lose a cracker. But that's a very narrow minded view of the world, based on your team.

As a neutral, which everyone is the vast majority of games they see on TV, or maybe even live, I would expect you like to see good open, intense, games. So how do we square that circle? How can we reconcile our team doing what it takes, but wanting to be entertained in games not featuring our team?

I don't think it's crap, I think it's an interesting, and complex enough, topic.

[sheamy]

chill AZ. There has been crap talked. Alot of it misinformed and I don't want to rehash it.

There has been some good constructive stuff too of course.

It is a very complex topic, you're spot on there.

I asked yesterday for someone to define what the problem is exactly. I'm still waiting.

The problem with arugments like 'some games are not great to watch' simply don't work when you apply any type of analysis to it.

How do you fix something based on entertainment factor? How do you even measure entertainment?

Edit: going back to my last post, if the score had been Derry 1-10 Dublin 0-14, would we even be having this conversation? In different conditions and on another night that's what the score would have been.

Noone is calling for armageddon after the game in ballybofey which was equally as defensive as derry and dublin.

[AZOffaly]

I'm not getting irate, don't worry I'm just curious as to what the 'crap' that has been talked is, because I think it's an interesting debate.

I think I have pointed out what most people would consider to be the problem statement.

"
Is there a very defensive mindset creeping into the game now (or has already done so) as coaches realise that it's the best way to keep the score down?
Is this affecting the game as a spectacle?
"

Most people posting here would answer yes to those two questions, and I said, the rest is a discussion on whether we need to do anything about it.

Some people obviously answer 'no' to the above, which is fine if that's their opinion.
Some people answer 'yes' but don't feel we need to do anything about it, either because they don't care about spectacle, or because they think it will work itself out through organic development. Again, that's fine no problem with it.
Some people answer yes, to the above, and also want to see changes in rules and are making some proposals. Some are mental, some are worthy of consideration in that context.

I don't see much 'crap' to be honest.

[sheamy]

In the 60's Down reinvented the game playing the ball into space and to the wings for forwards to run onto.

They beat Kerry.

The whole place erupted.

"This is not Gaelic football" screamed the masses.

"Gaelic football is a manly pursuit whereby each ball is contested in the air by two strapping sons of Ireland," said whoever was the buck eejit equivalent of Joe Brolly in the mid 60's.

This is no different.

The only thing that has really changed since then is the amount of analysis and airtime given to it in all forms of media. We analyse everything to death and the same happens in rugby and soccer to a degree. However, we are worse because we think we're above all that.

Let the game be.

I'm off to get my hurl.

[AZOffaly]

Absolutely, tactics change and innovations are made which make people react. I don't remember such a negative tactic though? And negative tactics, by their nature, are going to make the game a lower scoring, less exciting game. The down tactic, or the Kerry long ball into the twin towers, or the ulster handpassing game of the 90s were all predominantly offensive innovations or tactics.

If you're comfortable with it, then that's fine, that's a valid opinion. As I said before, my coaches hat wouldn't have a problem with it either. My spectator's hat says I'm not going to watch many games as a neutral if what's on offer is two teams playing with 13 in their own half, slow, lateral 'build ups' and low scoring.

[Rossfan]

Good posts by AZ as usual.
Last year at the Cavan v Ros Championship game in Breffni an ex Cavan footballer sat behind me.
He spent most of the first half saying " ahh that's not football at all ".
He left at half time saying he won't be back till teams start playing football again.
Don't know who he was but the Cavanites around me knew him well - in his fifties I'd say.
Coaches will do what they have to so it's up to administrators to look at rules and possible changes.
Mr Burns already looking into it I believe.

[blewuporstuffed]

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/if-joe-brolly-thinks-entertainment-is-derry-being-destroyed-fk-off-behind-closed-doors-and-watch-dublins-shooting-practice/19596

[Keyser soze]

I'm not getting irate, don't worry I'm just curious as to what the 'crap' that has been talked is, because I think it's an interesting debate.

I think I have pointed out what most people would consider to be the problem statement.

"
Is there a very defensive mindset creeping into the game now (or has already done so) as coaches realise that it's the best way to keep the score down?
Is this affecting the game as a spectacle
Most people posting here would answer yes to those two questions, and I said, the rest is a discussion on whether we need to do anything about it.

Some people obviously answer 'no' to the above, which is fine if that's their opinion.
Some people answer 'yes' but don't feel we need to do anything about it, either because they don't care about spectacle, or because they think it will work itself out through organic development. Again, that's fine no problem with it.
Some people answer yes, to the above, and also want to see changes in rules and are making some proposals. Some are mental, some are worthy of consideration in that context.

I don't see much 'crap' to be honest.

Well I wouldnt agree with that last statement, though by no means has all the crap talked been done on this tread or even this board. Im thinking of some of the crap spouted by messrs Parkinson, Brolly and Burns as instances of people who have completely taken leave of their senses in reaction to seeing a crap match. Or maybe more accurately they have a column to write or some airtime to fill. There have been loads of people on here spouting dung about rules changes like  :

- widening the pitch
- narrowing the pitch
- having a smaller goalie
- keepin four players in the attacking half of the field at all times
- introducing the mark at kickouts
- introducing offside, corners and mucks and rauls
- taking frees off the ground
- having a big overweight lad at full forward
- getting some pompous ass to have a review
- all handpasses must go forward

Ive no problem if people have an issue with spectacle but all this 'death of gaelic football' ballacks is crap and i dont see how you can deny that, as it would sicken anybody's hoop.

[AZOffaly]

Who said it's the death of gaelic football? I didn't see that.

As for the rules suggestions, yeah, some are mad, but some are more realistic, and whether we should apply any rule changes kind of comes back to your position on those two questions. You are in the Yes to #1 and No to #2 it appears. That's grand and I'd never tell you you were talking ballacks

[sheamy]

Who said it's the death of gaelic football? I didn't see that.

As for the rules suggestions, yeah, some are mad, but some are more realistic, and whether we should apply any rule changes kind of comes back to your position on those two questions. You are in the Yes to #1 and No to #2 it appears. That's grand and I'd never tell you you were talking ballacks

the new chairman of the GAA rules committee!!!!

that's one piece of crap I was referring to and didn't want rehashed, but since we're here and all...

[AZOffaly]

I was referring to this thread. There's a pile of crap spoken every day in the media, but I'm talking about the discussion here.

[Keyser soze]

Who said it's the death of gaelic football? I didn't see that.

As for the rules suggestions, yeah, some are mad, but some are more realistic, and whether we should apply any rule changes kind of comes back to your position on those two questions. You are in the Yes to #1 and No to #2 it appears. That's grand and I'd never tell you you were talking ballacks

Emmmm AZ I don't think #1 & 2 were even suggested on here, as I made most of the list up as it's April 1st. Though the fact that it would hard to pick out the made up ones from the things peeps have been suggesting on this and other threads might say everything about the level of debate.

[AZOffaly]

My questions 1 and 2 i mean!

i.e. you would agree that there is an influx of defensive tactics but
No, you wouldn't agree it's affecting the spectacle.