Man Utd Thread:

[ardtole]

If United had Jota, Firmino and Salah starting on Sunday under Ole and Liverpool had Rashford,  Sancho and Greenwood playing under Klopp, I think Liverpool are still winning that game.

Despite missing Thiago and Fabinho in midfield.

[NAG1]

There isnt much talent wise between the teams in terms of the players.

One set of players are playing to a clearly defined system, know their role in the team and Klopp doesnt let them deviate from this.

The others are playing off the cuff, no defined system of play, no clearly defined roles for the players and when they deviate from whatever system there is there are no consequences.

I don't like it but the longer it goes on it looks like Ole is on the way out. I don't even think a big turn around this weekend would save him. He has got reactions out of the team before but won't make a difference this time.

[tiempo]

One group of players is prepared to haul ass, the other isn't.

[Armamike]

Imagine what Klopp would do with that United squad. The great thing is imagining is all we'll ever have.

I've heard this one bandied about in the run up to the game and since.  He'd get more of a tune out of them but he wouldn't get near a title or challenge for the CL. Simply because most of the players there wouldn't fit his template.  He'd end up shipping most of them out to bring in the players that would fit his plan.  A Klopp type manager who wants to put solid foundations in for the long term isn't going to be a short term hit.  Klopp was the butt of a good few Manu supporters' jokes during his first 3 years at Liverpool - Klopp the flop, Klippity Klopp etc.  It's one thing saying there's quality players there at the moment but they're a collection of individuals brought in by various managers. Any new manager coming in is inheriting a few pegs.

[JoG2]

One group of players is prepared to haul ass, the other isn't.

Yes, Klopp plays a system and players are targeted and brought in to fit into that system, a system which involves incredible work rate. For Klopp to have this Utd team 'cleaning' up, you'd be talking years and a (near enough) complete over haul, so not this Utd team.

[brokencrossbar1]

Agreed with Armaike. I think a misconception has been bandied about the United squad. Last season was an aberration and this year is maybe a bit more reflective of where they are. The reality is there's no cohesion. Certain players get more of a by-ball because of who they are (Maguire, Ronaldo). The biggest mistake was the vanity purchase of Ronaldo. They should have broken the bank for a dominant CM and played the counter attack game. In Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood they have serious pace. Ronaldo can't be dropped so at least one of those can't play. They are neither a pressing team or a counter attacking team. They're somewhere in the middle and that's destroying them. All that being said they're still gonna be battling for the 4th-8th place.

[sid waddell]

Imagine what Klopp would do with that United squad. The great thing is imagining is all we'll ever have.

I've heard this one bandied about in the run up to the game and since.  He'd get more of a tune out of them but he wouldn't get near a title or challenge for the CL. Simply because most of the players there wouldn't fit his template.  He'd end up shipping most of them out to bring in the players that would fit his plan.  A Klopp type manager who wants to put solid foundations in for the long term isn't going to be a short term hit.  Klopp was the butt of a good few Manu supporters' jokes during his first 3 years at Liverpool - Klopp the flop, Klippity Klopp etc.  It's one thing saying there's quality players there at the moment but they're a collection of individuals brought in by various managers. Any new manager coming in is inheriting a few pegs.

Same thing was said about Chelsea last year as what you say about Manchester United now.

Lamps hadn't a clue.

Tuchel takes over and bang, they win the Champions League.

[Boycey]

Agreed with Armaike. I think a misconception has been bandied about the United squad. Last season was an aberration and this year is maybe a bit more reflective of where they are. The reality is there's no cohesion. Certain players get more of a by-ball because of who they are (Maguire, Ronaldo). The biggest mistake was the vanity purchase of Ronaldo. They should have broken the bank for a dominant CM and played the counter attack game. In Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood they have serious pace. Ronaldo can't be dropped so at least one of those can't play. They are neither a pressing team or a counter attacking team. They're somewhere in the middle and that's destroying them. All that being said they're still gonna be battling for the 4th-8th place.

Why is last year an aberration bc1? Its there in black and white... Add Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho to the mix the group should e moving forwards not backwards

[NAG1]

Agreed with Armaike. I think a misconception has been bandied about the United squad. Last season was an aberration and this year is maybe a bit more reflective of where they are. The reality is there's no cohesion. Certain players get more of a by-ball because of who they are (Maguire, Ronaldo). The biggest mistake was the vanity purchase of Ronaldo. They should have broken the bank for a dominant CM and played the counter attack game. In Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood they have serious pace. Ronaldo can't be dropped so at least one of those can't play. They are neither a pressing team or a counter attacking team. They're somewhere in the middle and that's destroying them. All that being said they're still gonna be battling for the 4th-8th place.

Why is last year an aberration bc1? Its there in black and white... Add Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho to the mix the group should e moving forwards not backwards

VVD's injury null and voided the whole season 

[Armamike]

Imagine what Klopp would do with that United squad. The great thing is imagining is all we'll ever have.

I've heard this one bandied about in the run up to the game and since.  He'd get more of a tune out of them but he wouldn't get near a title or challenge for the CL. Simply because most of the players there wouldn't fit his template.  He'd end up shipping most of them out to bring in the players that would fit his plan.  A Klopp type manager who wants to put solid foundations in for the long term isn't going to be a short term hit.  Klopp was the butt of a good few Manu supporters' jokes during his first 3 years at Liverpool - Klopp the flop, Klippity Klopp etc.  It's one thing saying there's quality players there at the moment but they're a collection of individuals brought in by various managers. Any new manager coming in is inheriting a few pegs.

Same thing was said about Chelsea last year as what you say about Manchester United now.

Lamps hadn't a clue.

Tuchel takes over and bang, they win the Champions League.

Well maybe Tuchels the man and not Klopp! 

[brokencrossbar1]

LFC destroyed by injuries half way through the season, CFC managed by a rookie out of his depth in Lampard. All that being said MUFC were still 12 points off the top. No point in having Sancho with him scratching his hole on the bench ....added to the mix .

You're right though they should be moving forward but that's not all on Oles door. Tactics may be wrong but lazy players are lazy players and there are a number of players in the United squad who won't work and no matter how talented they are that won't count.

[tiempo]

One group of players is prepared to haul ass, the other isn't.

Yes, Klopp plays a system and players are targeted and brought in to fit into that system, a system which involves incredible work rate. For Klopp to have this Utd team 'cleaning' up, you'd be talking years and a (near enough) complete over haul, so not this Utd team.

Didn't they ask Roy Keane on Sky Sports what type of player he'd be these days - holding, attacking, ball winning, playmaker? He said all of them.

You cant just walk on a pitch and say OK today I'm gonna be sitting in this pocket doing feck all else, if I do my job that's good enough, Ozil type bullshit mentality

There's GK in the league having more impact on games in an outfield sense than Pogba ffs

Utd are well down the pecking order and a lot is the unwillingness to bust their hole, a minimum requirement in previous great teams

[Boycey]

LFC destroyed by injuries half way through the season, CFC managed by a rookie out of his depth in Lampard. All that being said MUFC were still 12 points off the top. No point in having Sancho with him scratching his hole on the bench ....added to the mix .

You're right though they should be moving forward but that's not all on Oles door. Tactics may be wrong but lazy players are lazy players and there are a number of players in the United squad who won't work and no matter how talented they are that won't count.

I think it's very lazy analysis to say United are lazy players. Tuchel at Chelsea recently and Klopp at Liverpool further back show that players challenged in the right way can/will perform better. Ole is as much out of his depth at Utd as Lampard was at Chelsea?

As someone said yesterday put some of the Liverpool players into the Utd scenario and people would be saying exactly the same things about them. Trent is one that springs to my mind straight away, Liverpool fans are rightly proud of him and he's hugely important to how Liverpool play but at Utd his alleged limited defensive qualities would be pointed out at every hands turn

[Saffrongael]

If AWB was offering what TAA offered going forward you could forgive some of the defensive shortcomings, and if TAA was playing for United & producing that standard of play you could live with the defensive shortcomings. I don't think the United fans would be too hard on him

[brokencrossbar1]

LFC destroyed by injuries half way through the season, CFC managed by a rookie out of his depth in Lampard. All that being said MUFC were still 12 points off the top. No point in having Sancho with him scratching his hole on the bench ....added to the mix .

You're right though they should be moving forward but that's not all on Oles door. Tactics may be wrong but lazy players are lazy players and there are a number of players in the United squad who won't work and no matter how talented they are that won't count.

I think it's very lazy analysis to say United are lazy players. Tuchel at Chelsea recently and Klopp at Liverpool further back show that players challenged in the right way can/will perform better. Ole is as much out of his depth at Utd as Lampard was at Chelsea?

As someone said yesterday put some of the Liverpool players into the Utd scenario and people would be saying exactly the same things about them. Trent is one that springs to my mind straight away, Liverpool fans are rightly proud of him and he's hugely important to how Liverpool play but at Utd his alleged limited defensive qualities would be pointed out at every hands turn

Ah come on man, Pogba, Ronaldo, Greenwood, Martial....these lads wouldn't run out of the way of themselves!  Fred not much better.

The thing is I think we are actually in  agreement, Ole is out of his depth, the same way Lampard was. That doesn't not though resolve the fact that there are players in the United squad who just ate it up to it. Keane commented that these players threw Mourinho under the bus and would do the same with Ole. That's panning out now and with Ronaldo there the ego is even bigger so that doesn't help.

A new manager should be able to get a better trick out of them but there's still 4-5 top players needed and that cannot be denied