Super 8s

Started by theticklemister, February 19, 2017, 10:55:16 PM

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Rossfan

Who are the "weaker" teams?
Everyone apart from Dublin, Mayowestros and Kerry?
Div 4 teams?
Perennial non achievers like Laythrum, London, WIcklow,  Antrim, Waterford?
Are there degrees of weakness? Weak/Weaker/Weakest?
If say instead of a Round robin last 8 you had it for the other 24 who would have come through in 2017 to face the Provincial finalists?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

rosnarun

if A Weaker county get to the Quarter final now they will get 3 top class games something some leinster counties could take years besides to achieve
I can see why they would say the super 8's does not help the weaker counties but I fail to see how it hurts them.

If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

rosnarun

Quote from: Rossfan on March 02, 2017, 03:35:08 PM
Who are the "weaker" teams?
Everyone apart from Dublin, Mayowestros and Kerry?
Div 4 teams?
Perennial non achievers like Laythrum, London, WIcklow,  Antrim, Waterford?
Are there degrees of weakness? Weak/Weaker/Weakest?
If say instead of a Round robin last 8 you had it for the other 24 who would have come through in 2017 to face the Provincial finalists?
the only way to decide that is from the league
tghere you have 4  levels any one who misses out tough . try harder in next years league
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

Rossfan

Quote from: rosnarun on March 02, 2017, 04:49:15 PM
if A Weaker county get to the Quarter final now they will get 3 top class games something some leinster counties could take years besides to achieve
I can see why they would say the super 8's does not help the weaker counties but I fail to see how it hurts them.
Only for the lopsided A and B  Qualifiers of recent years no weak teams would get to the Quarters.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Syferus

Quote from: rosnarun on March 02, 2017, 04:49:15 PM
if A Weaker county get to the Quarter final now they will get 3 top class games something some leinster counties could take years besides to achieve
I can see why they would say the super 8's does not help the weaker counties but I fail to see how it hurts them.

And get battered three times.

The GAA as an institution in the process of jumping the shark.

BennyHarp

Quote from: Fuzzman on March 02, 2017, 03:23:26 PM
That's one way of looking at it Benny from a neutral who would think it could benefit them long term in their progress but I suppose it's a lot more rewarding when they beat a big team in a knock out game and progress to an AI semi.

Think back to 2008 when Tyrone beat Dublin in the quarterfinal in the rain. Can you imagine if he had won that game but then had to meet them again in the semi final or final. It's hard to spring a surprise twice, especially for a smaller county. If Tipp had to play Galway again I wonder would they have beaten them again.

Ah come on Fuzz. That wasn't a wet behind the ears Tyrone team. They were a team full of players with AI medals in their back pockets and would have beaten that Dublin team every day of the week. If Tipp got two home games in the super 8 then they'd have a decent chance of getting out of their group. I actually don't mind the super 8 as a concept. It just doesn't solve any of the main problems.
That was never a square ball!!

From the Bunker

The problem is a weaker team get to the Super 8. And if they get an almighty hammering in round one, suffer a few injuries and suspensions. A week later they have to pull themselves together for round two. They meet a side with a strong squad who can handle the week turnaround, injuries and suspensions. Another beating ensues. You get the general gist for game 3. Game 3 could involve a team wanting to improve score difference to finish top and an almighty massacre is suffered.

Rossfan

Quote from: Syferus on March 02, 2017, 06:40:01 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on March 02, 2017, 04:49:15 PM
if A Weaker county get to the Quarter final now they will get 3 top class games something some leinster counties could take years besides to achieve
I can see why they would say the super 8's does not help the weaker counties but I fail to see how it hurts them.

And get battered three times.

The GAA as an institution in the process of jumping the shark.
Jumping the shark???? ??? ???
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

From the Bunker


rosnarun

Quote from: From the Bunker on March 02, 2017, 09:04:39 PM
The problem is a weaker team get to the Super 8. And if they get an almighty hammering in round one, suffer a few injuries and suspensions. A week later they have to pull themselves together for round two. They meet a side with a strong squad who can handle the week turnaround, injuries and suspensions. Another beating ensues. You get the general gist for game 3. Game 3 could involve a team wanting to improve score difference to finish top and an almighty massacre is suffered.
now hang on half the people are complaining the weaker team will get no where unfer the super 8's now your saying that it'll be  a problem if they do .
to reach that stage they will have had to have shown some form for a stage and not just turn up like to a 1st round provincial game.
plus it will some what boost their finances and show some of their players exactly what they need to do to escape the weaker team tag.
other wise Just cut the Weaker teams loose .
People's plan to progress weaker team seems to solely revolve around  a better team having a really bad day . it may make for a good day for one county but for a shit competition with unworthy winners
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

trileacman

Quote from: BennyHarp on March 02, 2017, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 02, 2017, 02:58:45 PM
I would imagine the weaker counties much preferred the current system where they can go on a good run of matches through the qualifiers, playing teams of similar levels and then have a crack at a provincial winner in Croke Park. Tipperary's win over Galway last year can be compared to Wexford and Fermanagh making it to the AI semi finals in previous years.

Yes teams like that can still make it to the last 8 but they have a much lesser chance now of coming out of a group of 4 with 2 provincial winners and another qualifier. If Tipperary were in a group with say Galway, Monaghan and Westmeath they might fancy their chances but as been said before it's much harder to beat 2 provincial winners, especially one at their home venue.

I'm a little confused about some people saying that the clubs will be without their county players for longer now.
Is this correct as I thought they will all be finished 1 month earlier?

Would so called weaker teams who are seriously looking to develop not embrace the super 8 and have three big games rather than one?

3 big hammerings rather than one.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

BennyHarp

Quote from: trileacman on March 02, 2017, 10:36:44 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on March 02, 2017, 03:14:28 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on March 02, 2017, 02:58:45 PM
I would imagine the weaker counties much preferred the current system where they can go on a good run of matches through the qualifiers, playing teams of similar levels and then have a crack at a provincial winner in Croke Park. Tipperary's win over Galway last year can be compared to Wexford and Fermanagh making it to the AI semi finals in previous years.

Yes teams like that can still make it to the last 8 but they have a much lesser chance now of coming out of a group of 4 with 2 provincial winners and another qualifier. If Tipperary were in a group with say Galway, Monaghan and Westmeath they might fancy their chances but as been said before it's much harder to beat 2 provincial winners, especially one at their home venue.

I'm a little confused about some people saying that the clubs will be without their county players for longer now.
Is this correct as I thought they will all be finished 1 month earlier?

Would so called weaker teams who are seriously looking to develop not embrace the super 8 and have three big games rather than one?

3 big hammerings rather than one.

So there's no other option than to have a two or three tier championship then. Otherwise we are going to get hammerings!
That was never a square ball!!

Derry Optimist

There is nothing wrong in principle with the concept of the Super 8  format as presently proposed.After all, every sport must have an elite layer of teams to make their sport achieve its true potential.

What is essentially wrong with these new proposals however  is that the GAA has not addressed the core problem - the real pressing needs of  the other 24 counties.As far as I can see no one in the top echelons of the GAA AND NO ONE in most of our County Boards will address the unpalatable but real fact that any All-Ireland championship that depends on being linked to the provincial championship is both unfair and definitely inequitable.
In most counties and at All Ireland club level we have three distinct championships
ie Senior,Intermediate and Junior.

These are competitive,fair  and equitable and most of all enjoyable (think Cuala,Ballyea,Slaughtneil and St Brigids) simply because every team is playing at their own level in any given year.This system allows them to compete equitably,be promoted or indeed relegated depending on their consistent performances over a period of time.

Too many counties have yearly. unrealistic expectations that this will be their year to win either the provincial or All Ireland Senior title. So they get the  most expensive manager who indulges them in the latest spartan training regime because everybody else is doing (this has gone from two nights a week training to five nights in some cases plus gym work)it.

Eventually the more intelligent players either drop out or reject an offer to join the panel.The remainder naturally lose interest. The manager resigns or retires or is sacked and the whole sorry cycle of yearly expectation quickly followed by total disillusionment starts all over again.The number of volunteers selling weekly lotto tickets and other various forms of fund raising get fed  eventually knocking doors and drift off into the sunset.If the current trend continues we will only be left with the Super 8!! and all our volunteers will be gone

That is why it is imperative that we have a three-tiered All Ireland championship ie Senior,Intermediate and Junior.Current placings in the National Football League should be the main criteria for deciding which championship each group plays in.

If the THE GAA Hierarchy,COUNTY BOARDS,GPA AND CPA  want Gaelic football to reach its full potential as a game and to treat all counties  and all players fairly and equally then this the only way forward.Otherwise we will all keep dreaming that next year will be our year for provincial or national Senior glory regardless of how good our players are!!

Over to all stakeholders and address the real problem.Our players,supporters and our great game deserves it.

Gold

#493
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top already putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

This is championship football ffs
"Cheeky Charlie McKenna..."

didlyi

Quote from: Gold on March 02, 2017, 11:36:20 PM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top alreadye putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

Thks is championship football ffs


Agree with everything......and theres nothing worse than a dead rubber game at that late stage of a championship.