Super 8s

Started by theticklemister, February 19, 2017, 10:55:16 PM

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Croí na hÉireann

Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
Westmeath - Home of the Christy Ring Cup...

AZOffaly

Quote from: Esmarelda on February 23, 2017, 04:47:28 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 23, 2017, 04:45:02 PM
Tipp hosted Tyrone in Thurles. It didn't work out so well.
Neither did Mayo v Tipp in Croke Park. Maybe Tipp should pack it in altogether  ;)

You get the impression a few media people would prefer if all the weaker counties packed it in altogether.

By the way Tipp were fairly competitive v Mayo.

Esmarelda

Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 04:59:25 PM
Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
My point/question is this. You're making it a major deal, for a county's progress, to make a semi-final because it suits your argument.

What I'm saying is that a county might progress just as much in the long term by playing three of these Super 8 games as they would playing in a semi-final. And please don't start with the black & white argument that getting to a SF is better than getting to a QF. I'm aware of that.

But again, look at how you're wording your question; "getting a hiding" of Mayo. Let me flip it around for you. Would it be more beneficial for Tipp to play three games and get a win, a draw and a narrow defeat than get "a hiding" in the AISF?

Rossfan

And would have been against Tyrone whether a semi in Croker or a Super8 in Thurles or Omagh.
As an aside will Omagh be big enough for Tyrone home games if this goes ahead or will they have to go to Clones?
Mullingar might not qualify either? ?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Syferus

Is the GAA's aim to make as much money as possible or to develop the sport?

Most of the changes in recent years belie the fact the former is the sad truth.

Zulu

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 23, 2017, 12:48:31 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 12:46:28 PM
Reading this thread and it's a mirror image of many discussions we've had here about changes where most lads seem to go to the default setting of seeing everything that's not perfect about it and little of what's good about it.

Most people agree the current format is not working and that radical changes would not pass congress so why not give this a chance and see what happens? AZ is correct when he says a Tipp or Westmeath getting to an All Ireland semi final is less likely but you could also have Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone coming to Thurles in the last game where a draw for Tipp could get them to a semi final (or some other scenario). EVERY single suggestion you could come up with will have faults if we maintain the county structure as we have and then want a format that serves Waterford and Dublin equally well. It's  impossible so why not see if something else is an improvement?

By the way won't the extra revenue go towards levelling the financial playing field?
Anything that stops Westmeath getting to an All IReland semi final is fine by me.

Where did you hear that about the extra revenue? are the funds for these games earmarked to go into development outside of the big counties?

Yes, a significant proportion of the extra revenue will be ring fenced for development in lower level counties.

I don't think anyone opposing this has made a reasonable argument for opposing this. It isn't perfect, Paraic Duffy would accept that himself but it's worth trying for 3 years to see if it is an improvement or not. I also don't understand this opposition to the GAA generating money, like it or not it's required to run a major sporting organisation.

Fear ón Srath Bán

#156
It's a beginning, and anything that alters the current anachronistic and imbalanced All-Ireland structure for the better is welcome with me, however slight that tinkering may be initially. It was never going to be completely overhauled in one Congress-year.

It'll neither be as fantastic as the most enthusiastic proponents would claim, nor as awful as the most scathing detractors would clamour, but it deserves a run out nonetheless. Let's give it a lash, it can't be any worse than the current set-up, regardless of how it unfolds. :)
Carlsberg don't do Gombeenocracies, but by jaysus if they did...

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 23, 2017, 12:48:31 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 12:46:28 PM
Reading this thread and it's a mirror image of many discussions we've had here about changes where most lads seem to go to the default setting of seeing everything that's not perfect about it and little of what's good about it.

Most people agree the current format is not working and that radical changes would not pass congress so why not give this a chance and see what happens? AZ is correct when he says a Tipp or Westmeath getting to an All Ireland semi final is less likely but you could also have Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone coming to Thurles in the last game where a draw for Tipp could get them to a semi final (or some other scenario). EVERY single suggestion you could come up with will have faults if we maintain the county structure as we have and then want a format that serves Waterford and Dublin equally well. It's  impossible so why not see if something else is an improvement?

By the way won't the extra revenue go towards levelling the financial playing field?
Anything that stops Westmeath getting to an All IReland semi final is fine by me.

Where did you hear that about the extra revenue? are the funds for these games earmarked to go into development outside of the big counties?

Yes, a significant proportion of the extra revenue will be ring fenced for development in lower level counties.

I don't think anyone opposing this has made a reasonable argument for opposing this. It isn't perfect, Paraic Duffy would accept that himself but it's worth trying for 3 years to see if it is an improvement or not. I also don't understand this opposition to the GAA generating money, like it or not it's required to run a major sporting organisation.
I'll believe the ring fencing when I see it

I cannot see how having a round robin series half way through the championship will work.
The champions league tried that a few years ago, then reverted back to the current system.

you will get the same 3/4 teams into the semi finals every year - counties with the largest pick, most resources to finance the team

Zulu

The ring fencing will definitely happen or do you genuinely think the GAA want one or two teams to win everything?

The league is highlighting that fans want to see the best teams play each other and this format is providing more of that so I expect it will be successful.

Of course the best 3 or 4 teams will make the semi finals each year but that should happen in any system most of the time.

Rossfan

How many different teams reached the Semis the last 5 years?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

BennyCake

Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2017, 11:36:34 PM
How many different teams reached the Semis the last 5 years?

Six

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 11:24:00 PM
The ring fencing will definitely happen or do you genuinely think the GAA want one or two teams to win everything?

The league is highlighting that fans want to see the best teams play each other and this format is providing more of that so I expect it will be successful.

Of course the best 3 or 4 teams will make the semi finals each year but that should happen in any system most of the time.
but the same few teams are already winning most titles

Zulu

They are but are you saying we should come up with a system that hinders the best teams from winning championships?

The best team in Ireland should win the All Ireland and this proposed system doesn't impact on that so what is the problem?

AZOffaly

Quote from: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 11:24:00 PM
The ring fencing will definitely happen or do you genuinely think the GAA want one or two teams to win everything?

The league is highlighting that fans want to see the best teams play each other and this format is providing more of that so I expect it will be successful.

Of course the best 3 or 4 teams will make the semi finals each year but that should happen in any system most of the time.

Given what's happened with Dublin and the funding spend in development there, and compared to the investment in other counties, I'm not sure the GAA is overy bothered about competitive balance, if that's what you're asking.

You asked a question somewhere about 'what's wrong with raising money, we need money' and I agree 100%. However, I made a point here a couple of years ago, which is being reinforced with almost every proposal and decision coming out of CP.

I believe we have appointed some very good men, like Peter McKenna and Paraic Duffy, who are good businessmen and are approaching running the GAA as a profit making enterprise. All decisions and proposals from them are from that perspective. Brand identiy. Maximising revenue streams, increasing profit.

And that's a worry for me. We absolutely need good people running the business side, to ensure ADEQUATE finances are raised to support our organisation and it's development, in both Capital ventures and Coaching and Games development. However, there has to be a recognition that the games, and the people playing it, are the most important thing. And ALL decisions should have that fact as the basic sanity check for the decisions. Will this decision help the games, their competitiveness, and the people playing it.

At the moment, I think the first question they ask themselves is "Will this decision be financially lucrative, will it sell more jerseys, or sell more ads for TV companies?".

And when that is the situation, the tail starts wagging the dog, and you have decisions made which are good from a financial standpoint, but the games and players and fans have to adapt or accept the change even if they don't want it.

If they looked at it from the other side, I'm not sure a Super 8 would be the answer, and I'm not sure a few other decisions coming out of Croke Park would be the answer to other issues.

At some point, we have to remember we need ENOUGH money to run and finance the organisation, but we don't always have to be looking for the next chance to maximise revenue and become like a Corporation who bases it's whole culture off the bottom line.

Rossfan

Like everything in life, business, government etc it's all about getting the right BALANCE.
Isn't it up to Co Boards who are made up of delegates from Clubs Central Council made up of delegates from Counties and the annual Congress to ensure the balance is met between the obvious need for money and the neEdstaston of the games/players etc.?
Obviously a lot of people think the 8s is good for the games.
I think any round Robin in the AI championship should be for the other 24 which would be better for the game but could well be a flop financially.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM